2021 'Who are you watching?' NFL prospect thread.
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Like any observant eye, I tend to keep track of how the work is received.
This thread had almost 500 views with no posts damn near overnight.
Uhh....whuuuut?!
This thread had almost 500 views with no posts damn near overnight.
Uhh....whuuuut?!
second! You saw that too, Uhh? ?.(senior bowl scouts?).. Never mind about your thoughts on Richie Grant ?.. PM them to me
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second! You saw that too, Uhh? ?.(senior bowl scouts?).. Never mind about your thoughts on Richie Grant ?.. PM them to me
I have a couple more games to wrap up with KVJ. After that I'm moving onto Patrick Jones, but when I do I'll put Grant on deck.
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I have a couple more games to wrap up with KVJ. After that I'm moving onto Patrick Jones, but when I do I'll put Grant on deck.
I always enjoy your takes tia. Nuff said.?
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I always enjoy your takes tia. Nuff said.?
Awwwwww shucks. Thanks, boo.
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I have a bit of write-up incoming tonight. But before I do that, I felt this was as good a thread as any.
I've started a 'TBB' discord. Honestly, I feel at times it might be easier than The Tavern. Except it can be purposed for things when the Browns themselves aren't playing. It can be used to share thoughts on prospects, coaches, gameplans, whatever film review you might do... with the "share screen" function, the review can be done in group so ideas on what players we're watching can be shared live in group.
This is the link, I'm listed as the Admin and I do have a couple names in mind on mods should they wish to have the role. Like anything else, there will be a couple small rules to observe, but that's about it. With my new desktop built and command center done (thanks to a dear friend) might as well put it to good use. I'll be in there starting tonight should anyone want to check out how I, or anyone else, watches their tape. I'm sure I'll be in there as well at times throughout the off-season leading up to the draft on any prospects I may watch.
More on Kary Vincent to follow.
I have a bit of write-up incoming tonight. But before I do that, I felt this was as good a thread as any.
I've started a 'TBB' discord. Honestly, I feel at times it might be easier than The Tavern. Except it can be purposed for things when the Browns themselves aren't playing. It can be used to share thoughts on prospects, coaches, gameplans, whatever film review you might do... with the "share screen" function, the review can be done in group so ideas on what players we're watching can be shared live in group.
This is the link, I'm listed as the Admin and I do have a couple names in mind on mods should they wish to have the role. Like anything else, there will be a couple small rules to observe, but that's about it. With my new desktop built and command center done (thanks to a dear friend) might as well put it to good use. I'll be in there starting tonight should anyone want to check out how I, or anyone else, watches their tape. I'm sure I'll be in there as well at times throughout the off-season leading up to the draft on any prospects I may watch.
More on Kary Vincent to follow.
I'll have to remember my Discord login info and join
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I have a couple more games to wrap up with KVJ. After that I'm moving onto Patrick Jones, but when I do I'll put Grant on deck.
Patrick Jones teammate Jaylen Twyman - he stood out when I watched some Pitt games in 2019. He didn’t play last year. Seems raw but talented. I’m Curious what you think about him.
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I have a couple more games to wrap up with KVJ. After that I'm moving onto Patrick Jones, but when I do I'll put Grant on deck.
Patrick Jones teammate Jaylen Twyman - he stood out when I watched some Pitt games in 2019. He didn’t play last year. Seems raw but talented. I’m Curious what you think about him.
Patrick Jones teammate Jaylen Twyman - he stood out when I watched some Pitt games in 2019. He didn’t play last year. Seems raw but talented. I’m Curious what you think about him.
I'll be back in the lab tomorrow night around 5:30-6 to finish my views on Vincent. Then I'll be on Patrick Jones, where I'm sure I'll get a peek at Twyman. After that I have Grant, per @gumby73's request and then I'll wrap up with Daivyon Nixon sometime end of next week.
But what I see, I'll let you know.
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I have a couple more games to wrap up with KVJ. After that I'm moving onto Patrick Jones, but when I do I'll put Grant on deck.
Patrick Jones teammate Jaylen Twyman - he stood out when I watched some Pitt games in 2019. He didn’t play last year. Seems raw but talented. I’m Curious what you think about him.
Patrick Jones teammate Jaylen Twyman - he stood out when I watched some Pitt games in 2019. He didn’t play last year. Seems raw but talented. I’m Curious what you think about him.
tia's going back to front... cause it's his thang.
Imma go front to back cause DBs ain't my thang, but I can hang with DL and LBs.
We'll meet in the middle
It's neat to focus on the D-side for a change.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We'll be back in the lab tomorrow (Thursday) around 5:30-6pm EST. Going to finish up watching Vincent with LSU v UF & LSU v Bama (might sneak in v Clemson depending on what I see)
Should anyone wish to join in on this with discord.
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We'll be back in the lab tomorrow (Thursday) around 5:30-6pm EST. Going to finish up watching Vincent with LSU v UF & LSU v Bama (might sneak in v Clemson depending on what I see)
Should anyone wish to join in on this with discord.
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We'll be back in the lab tomorrow (Thursday) around 5:30-6pm EST. Going to finish up watching Vincent with LSU v UF & LSU v Bama (might sneak in v Clemson depending on what I see)
Should anyone wish to join in on this with discord.
Should anyone wish to join in on this with discord.
You probably have noticed I signed up, but not going to join in live sessions until I get some homework done...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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Latest from PFF...
PFF's top CB prospect, plus a wild-card CB to watch
TOP PROSPECT: CALEB FARLEY, VIRGINIA TECH
He's a size/speed demon and made up ground on every single receiver who got a step in him in 2019 — even Chase Claypool.
BIGGEST RISER: IFEATU MELIFONWU, SYRACUSE
Ifeatu is a rare breed in his own right. The 6-foot-3, 213-pounder is long and athletic like his brother; he played running back, receiver and defensive back for Grafton High School and recorded over 1,876 rushing yards and 25 touchdowns as a senior.
PFF's top safety prospect, plus a wild-card safety to watch
TOP PROSPECT: TREVON MOEHRIG, TCU
No safety in college football has made more plays on the ball over the past two seasons. Moehrig led all safeties in pass breakups in both 2019 (12) and 2020 (eight).
BIGGEST RISER: RICHIE GRANT, UCF
He recorded 37 tackles and four interceptions as a senior on the football field before starring at UCF. There's so much to like about Grant's tape that it's easy to see him overcoming his middling physical traits.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Latest from PFF...
PFF's top CB prospect, plus a wild-card CB to watch
TOP PROSPECT: CALEB FARLEY, VIRGINIA TECH
He's a size/speed demon and made up ground on every single receiver who got a step in him in 2019 — even Chase Claypool.
BIGGEST RISER: IFEATU MELIFONWU, SYRACUSE
Ifeatu is a rare breed in his own right. The 6-foot-3, 213-pounder is long and athletic like his brother; he played running back, receiver and defensive back for Grafton High School and recorded over 1,876 rushing yards and 25 touchdowns as a senior.
PFF's top safety prospect, plus a wild-card safety to watch
TOP PROSPECT: TREVON MOEHRIG, TCU
No safety in college football has made more plays on the ball over the past two seasons. Moehrig led all safeties in pass breakups in both 2019 (12) and 2020 (eight).
BIGGEST RISER: RICHIE GRANT, UCF
He recorded 37 tackles and four interceptions as a senior on the football field before starring at UCF. There's so much to like about Grant's tape that it's easy to see him overcoming his middling physical traits.
-
Latest from PFF...
PFF's top CB prospect, plus a wild-card CB to watch
TOP PROSPECT: CALEB FARLEY, VIRGINIA TECH
He's a size/speed demon and made up ground on every single receiver who got a step in him in 2019 — even Chase Claypool.
BIGGEST RISER: IFEATU MELIFONWU, SYRACUSE
Ifeatu is a rare breed in his own right. The 6-foot-3, 213-pounder is long and athletic like his brother; he played running back, receiver and defensive back for Grafton High School and recorded over 1,876 rushing yards and 25 touchdowns as a senior.
PFF's top safety prospect, plus a wild-card safety to watch
TOP PROSPECT: TREVON MOEHRIG, TCU
No safety in college football has made more plays on the ball over the past two seasons. Moehrig led all safeties in pass breakups in both 2019 (12) and 2020 (eight).
BIGGEST RISER: RICHIE GRANT, UCF
He recorded 37 tackles and four interceptions as a senior on the football field before starring at UCF. There's so much to like about Grant's tape that it's easy to see him overcoming his middling physical traits.
First off, Apolgies for jumping off early last night and not warning anyone who may have been on discord. I was not expecting to hear of a family member having a heart attack. Not asking for prayers or sympathy, only relaying the reason for my disappearing act. Obviously that is priority 1 over film watching. I'll be in CLE until 1 and then delivering food to the afflicted immediate family shortly after. Beyond that, I will be afterwards and for the remainder of the evening as I intended yesterday. Could use the break from reality.
Latest from PFF...
I'm sure most people are aware of how I feel about PFF's college evals ---> NFL projections. Farley needs work, he's still a good deal raw. But the goods are there. Kid could be Jalen Ramsey if he wanted to be.
edit: We have begun our next session with LSU - UF 2019
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First off, Apolgies for jumping off early last night and not warning anyone who may have been on discord. I was not expecting to hear of a family member having a heart attack. Not asking for prayers or sympathy, only relaying the reason for my disappearing act. Obviously that is priority 1 over film watching. I'll be in CLE until 1 and then delivering food to the afflicted immediate family shortly after. Beyond that, I will be afterwards and for the remainder of the evening as I intended yesterday. Could use the break from reality.
Latest from PFF...
I'm sure most people are aware of how I feel about PFF's college evals ---> NFL projections. Farley needs work, he's still a good deal raw. But the goods are there. Kid could be Jalen Ramsey if he wanted to be.
edit: We have begun our next session with LSU - UF 2019
I'm sure most people are aware of how I feel about PFF's college evals
Well aware.... just giving you something to shoot at.
Desired or not going to send good thoughts your way.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Well aware.... just giving you something to shoot at.
Desired or not going to send good thoughts your way.
Or skip the homework and send your old ass into discord when everybody else gets on and lets talk shop over this LSU - UF game. I started up early.
edit: Appreciated though still.
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Slammed a double espresso, waiting on laundry, giving my yearly listen of LD50 a go and dialing up Patrick Jones v Syracuse if anybody wants to tag along.
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Patrick Jones initial viewing and thoughts. Timestamped below...
@ :47 - caught off guard by the downblock on the 2i. Runs high and upfield allowing the QB to climb and scramble underneath him.
Came out of his stance VERY high.@ 1:16 great initial stance, low and appears agile. Comes out of stance at a decent pad level, really long strides and wasn't prepared for initial contact by OT.
Need to have those hands ready to work in sync with his feet.
@ 3:45 good first step, good length to get hands on inline TE with good initial strike. But high and stays high on stack, to the point he's high on his front feet like a boxer.@ 15:43 Stance is great, just a natural 3/4 pt player. Great arm length with eyes up and proper shoulder-width spacing.
Takes lead on at the point and maintains acceptable pad level, holds ground on first contact and works through block to ball carrier.
@ 24:38 Discipline keeping inside shoulder on the outside of the QB, using his hands on the TE and getting upfield to force the QB to decide on throw or keep.
Doesn't crash down the line as backside pursuit opening up an easy bootleg.@ 25:16 I think this is going to be the re-occurring theme for Jones when I get to more viewings. I'm sure any professional eyeing him up is going to say the same things -
His initial stance looks great, but you stay low and you play low. That's just football 101. There are times when he fires out WAY to high and his legs look like a track star getting ready to hurdle. Your feet won't be the same on every pass-rush. Some things you have to use your speed and stide, some things you have to calculate and sync your feet to setup (such as a counter or spin) etc etc. There's no real commitment to a move here, no speed and bend to the edge, no dropping the hips and minimizing the contact/strike surface for the OT. If anything, he allows the OT to recover after a bad first step and only to be ridden upfield. This tackle was just asking to be beaten inside. If Jones plants off that left foot and rips back to the inside shoulder, he probably has the QB walk into him for the sack. Still, he does a decent job getting back to the pocket after realizing just how far upfield he's gone.
@ 1:08:31 Double team and downblock on the frontside 3 tech. Which means Jones picks up the lead. The Lead may not drive him back, but he wins with lower leverage and contact, turning him away from hole and letting RB in underneath lane. Size and strength don't mean everything when you lose like that.
@ 1:17:40 Classic case of getting too far upfield and taking yourself out of the play on a favorable running down and distance.
@ 1:19:09 FINALLY. Shortens the 2nd and 3rd step, gets the OT to lean into (eyes down I might add) contact with his upper body extended beyond his base and shoulders flat(ter) to the QB. So Jones plants that foot, works to torque and rip back inside. He's still quite high here, but at least his feet keep moving and he's working past/through the block with eyes up and on the ball carrier. He drops his hips and pad level late but bends back around and drops the RB. Is it the most technically sound rep I've ever seen? Hell no, but I've been waiting to at least see if Patrick would show a glimpse of it.. and THIS right here has made the hour plus view worth it. He's capable, just quite raw.
@ 1:20:30 Patrick... you can't setup this spin move without reliably threatening the edge consistently. More importantly, it's not a great setup. That right arm needs to be clubbing the inside arm of the OT if you want any shot at rolling off him.
@ 1:30:24 Rearing it's ugly head again - the upright nature of his attack. Pause at his 2nd and 3rd steps - far too high. Stay low - play low. The 'Cuse tackles are just not very good and routinely leave their base, lower their eyes and lean into bad contact for the sake of creating it. But another example of Jones showing some ability to actually drop his hips, lower his center of gravity and attempt to turn the corner. He just does it late...real late. And he'd be arriving at his pivot point faster if he wasn't so damn upright so early in the rep. Another example of physical gifts that need a good deal of time with a professional position coach."Rough draft" Thoughts.
6'5 260lbs. That's a first-off-the-bus kind of player. All the physical gifts are there. Good arm length, height, weight distribution throughout his body. Athletic, quick as evidenced in the first step routinely. Raw... technically raw. Bordering somewhere between considerably and very. I can see why you'd be enamored with him though, his functional play strength is there and when he does win it's based mostly on that strength and athleticism with little contribution from polished technique, most glaring being pad level/center of gravity and feet to hand sync. This is the earliest game of the 2020 season I could find, so I'm hoping to see improvement with some consistency in games further down the rest of the year. But the few wins I saw make me curious enough to keep watching, so at least there's that. But 1st round hype? That must mean some better tape is coming I would hope.
-
Patrick Jones initial viewing and thoughts. Timestamped below...
@ :47 - caught off guard by the downblock on the 2i. Runs high and upfield allowing the QB to climb and scramble underneath him.
Came out of his stance VERY high.@ 1:16 great initial stance, low and appears agile. Comes out of stance at a decent pad level, really long strides and wasn't prepared for initial contact by OT.
Need to have those hands ready to work in sync with his feet.
@ 3:45 good first step, good length to get hands on inline TE with good initial strike. But high and stays high on stack, to the point he's high on his front feet like a boxer.@ 15:43 Stance is great, just a natural 3/4 pt player. Great arm length with eyes up and proper shoulder-width spacing.
Takes lead on at the point and maintains acceptable pad level, holds ground on first contact and works through block to ball carrier.
@ 24:38 Discipline keeping inside shoulder on the outside of the QB, using his hands on the TE and getting upfield to force the QB to decide on throw or keep.
Doesn't crash down the line as backside pursuit opening up an easy bootleg.@ 25:16 I think this is going to be the re-occurring theme for Jones when I get to more viewings. I'm sure any professional eyeing him up is going to say the same things -
His initial stance looks great, but you stay low and you play low. That's just football 101. There are times when he fires out WAY to high and his legs look like a track star getting ready to hurdle. Your feet won't be the same on every pass-rush. Some things you have to use your speed and stide, some things you have to calculate and sync your feet to setup (such as a counter or spin) etc etc. There's no real commitment to a move here, no speed and bend to the edge, no dropping the hips and minimizing the contact/strike surface for the OT. If anything, he allows the OT to recover after a bad first step and only to be ridden upfield. This tackle was just asking to be beaten inside. If Jones plants off that left foot and rips back to the inside shoulder, he probably has the QB walk into him for the sack. Still, he does a decent job getting back to the pocket after realizing just how far upfield he's gone.
@ 1:08:31 Double team and downblock on the frontside 3 tech. Which means Jones picks up the lead. The Lead may not drive him back, but he wins with lower leverage and contact, turning him away from hole and letting RB in underneath lane. Size and strength don't mean everything when you lose like that.
@ 1:17:40 Classic case of getting too far upfield and taking yourself out of the play on a favorable running down and distance.
@ 1:19:09 FINALLY. Shortens the 2nd and 3rd step, gets the OT to lean into (eyes down I might add) contact with his upper body extended beyond his base and shoulders flat(ter) to the QB. So Jones plants that foot, works to torque and rip back inside. He's still quite high here, but at least his feet keep moving and he's working past/through the block with eyes up and on the ball carrier. He drops his hips and pad level late but bends back around and drops the RB. Is it the most technically sound rep I've ever seen? Hell no, but I've been waiting to at least see if Patrick would show a glimpse of it.. and THIS right here has made the hour plus view worth it. He's capable, just quite raw.
@ 1:20:30 Patrick... you can't setup this spin move without reliably threatening the edge consistently. More importantly, it's not a great setup. That right arm needs to be clubbing the inside arm of the OT if you want any shot at rolling off him.
@ 1:30:24 Rearing it's ugly head again - the upright nature of his attack. Pause at his 2nd and 3rd steps - far too high. Stay low - play low. The 'Cuse tackles are just not very good and routinely leave their base, lower their eyes and lean into bad contact for the sake of creating it. But another example of Jones showing some ability to actually drop his hips, lower his center of gravity and attempt to turn the corner. He just does it late...real late. And he'd be arriving at his pivot point faster if he wasn't so damn upright so early in the rep. Another example of physical gifts that need a good deal of time with a professional position coach."Rough draft" Thoughts.
6'5 260lbs. That's a first-off-the-bus kind of player. All the physical gifts are there. Good arm length, height, weight distribution throughout his body. Athletic, quick as evidenced in the first step routinely. Raw... technically raw. Bordering somewhere between considerably and very. I can see why you'd be enamored with him though, his functional play strength is there and when he does win it's based mostly on that strength and athleticism with little contribution from polished technique, most glaring being pad level/center of gravity and feet to hand sync. This is the earliest game of the 2020 season I could find, so I'm hoping to see improvement with some consistency in games further down the rest of the year. But the few wins I saw make me curious enough to keep watching, so at least there's that. But 1st round hype? That must mean some better tape is coming I would hope.
Patrick Jones initial viewing and thoughts.
"Rough draft" Thoughts.
6'5 260lbs. That's a first-off-the-bus kind of player. All the physical gifts are there. Good arm length, height, weight distribution throughout his body. Athletic, quick as evidenced in the first step routinely. Raw... technically raw. Bordering somewhere between considerably and very. I can see why you'd be enamored with him though, his functional play strength is there and when he does win it's based mostly on that strength and athleticism with little contribution from polished technique, most glaring being pad level/center of gravity and feet to hand sync. This is the earliest game of the 2020 season I could find, so I'm hoping to see improvement with some consistency in games further down the rest of the year. But the few wins I saw make me curious enough to keep watching, so at least there's that. But 1st round hype? That must mean some better tape is coming I would hope.
I'm looking forward to a late season game view of this guy. Looks like a lot of correctable things with raw talent. A good NFL D coach can fix that stuff quickly. Thanks tia.
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