***WILDCARD: Browns AT Steelers Gameday Thread***
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Bens "dead cap" is only $22 million, as opposed to a "cap hit" of $40
This shouldn't be confusing but both statements are correct. 41.3 if he's on the roster on 6/2/21; 22.3 if he's cut by 6/1.. but then they have no QB and a charge of 22.3.
Fun is that the 2021cap drops to 176 from current 202.. At present the Steelers are 21M over that cap of 176.. Look out below.
This shouldn't be confusing but both statements are correct. 41.3 if he's on the roster on 6/2/21; 22.3 if he's cut by 6/1.. but then they have no QB and a charge of 22.3.
Fun is that the 2021cap drops to 176 from current 202.. At present the Steelers are 21M over that cap of 176.. Look out below.
Someone below you stated that by dumping BR they will get immediate cap relief. What say you to that? Sounds like you disagree somewhat. Would they have to do more?
Jujubutt is a FA....let him walk? Same with Dupree...let him walk?
And I guess that sure as hell counts out trading for Wentz, as has been suggested.
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This shouldn't be confusing but both statements are correct. 41.3 if he's on the roster on 6/2/21; 22.3 if he's cut by 6/1.. but then they have no QB and a charge of 22.3.
Fun is that the 2021cap drops to 176 from current 202.. At present the Steelers are 21M over that cap of 176.. Look out below.
I really don't see the cap dropping that far, especially with covid. I imagine it's going to stay around the 200 mark.
I really don't see the cap dropping that far, especially with covid. I imagine it's going to stay around the 200 mark.
I will take Unsymps word over yours. He seems to know what he is talking about. You on the other hand.....mmmm, not so much.
Which means that even the Browns could have issues acquiring the FA talent they need due to the cap issues.
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Of course if Ben retires, then PTG's cap relief is immediate.
I will be shocked if Ben isn't back. We shall see how badly he wants another go. Does he take a hometown discount? ?
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I have also read about the team using qualifying contract potentially to bring the cap down. The article mentioned alualu specifically.
I have also read about the team using qualifying contract potentially to bring the cap down. The article mentioned alualu specifically.
A smart and underutilized approach... and with the first-right of refusal, the worst thing that can happen is you end up with a draft pick.
Only downside is potential player disgruntlement. Not as big of an issue on winning teams... so better be sure you win.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Guys, sure there is a bit of a difference being on an opposing teams forum, but Mr. Tron is to me not a troll. He actually posts even when they aren't playing, and he certainly isn't as bad as some so called Browns fans (and no, not saying ones that post regularly).
Now I completely disagreed with his talk and reasoning prior to and not long after the game, but he seems like a good guy.
As for what he has said in this thread about not trading... that is what most people are going to say. I mean just take a look (in your memory) at some of the talk on here with regards to some of the Browns earlier this year. People were ready to give up on Baker, OBJ, every defensive player not named Myles and Denzel (and even a few with him), Njoku, Peoples Jones, Higgins.
And if you do indeed think he is trolling, continuing to go after him would in fact be giving him exactly what he wants.
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Are you an engineer? Seem to be smart enough to be one...
Right, Woody?
Edit: As opposed to being a lawyer...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Guys, sure there is a bit of a difference being on an opposing teams forum, but Mr. Tron is to me not a troll. He actually posts even when they aren't playing, and he certainly isn't as bad as some so called Browns fans (and no, not saying ones that post regularly).
Now I completely disagreed with his talk and reasoning prior to and not long after the game, but he seems like a good guy.
As for what he has said in this thread about not trading... that is what most people are going to say. I mean just take a look (in your memory) at some of the talk on here with regards to some of the Browns earlier this year. People were ready to give up on Baker, OBJ, every defensive player not named Myles and Denzel (and even a few with him), Njoku, Peoples Jones, Higgins.
And if you do indeed think he is trolling, continuing to go after him would in fact be giving him exactly what he wants.
Guys, sure there is a bit of a difference being on an opposing teams forum, but Mr. Tron is to me not a troll. He actually posts even when they aren't playing, and he certainly isn't as bad as some so called Browns fans (and no, not saying ones that post regularly).
Now I completely disagreed with his talk and reasoning prior to and not long after the game, but he seems like a good guy.
As for what he has said in this thread about not trading... that is what most people are going to say. I mean just take a look (in your memory) at some of the talk on here with regards to some of the Browns earlier this year. People were ready to give up on Baker, OBJ, every defensive player not named Myles and Denzel (and even a few with him), Njoku, Peoples Jones, Higgins.
And if you do indeed think he is trolling, continuing to go after him would in fact be giving him exactly what he wants.
Why don't you go through a unit by unit, or even position by position analysis of both teams to see how the personnel matches up. I tried to do that some either previously in that thread or elsewhere. Some seemed to think that I was off base there.....but I don't.
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Guys, sure there is a bit of a difference being on an opposing teams forum, but Mr. Tron is to me not a troll. He actually posts even when they aren't playing, and he certainly isn't as bad as some so called Browns fans (and no, not saying ones that post regularly).
Now I completely disagreed with his talk and reasoning prior to and not long after the game, but he seems like a good guy.
As for what he has said in this thread about not trading... that is what most people are going to say. I mean just take a look (in your memory) at some of the talk on here with regards to some of the Browns earlier this year. People were ready to give up on Baker, OBJ, every defensive player not named Myles and Denzel (and even a few with him), Njoku, Peoples Jones, Higgins.
And if you do indeed think he is trolling, continuing to go after him would in fact be giving him exactly what he wants.
Why don't you go through a unit by unit, or even position by position analysis of both teams to see how the personnel matches up. I tried to do that some either previously in that thread or elsewhere. Some seemed to think that I was off base there.....but I don't.
Why don't you go through a unit by unit, or even position by position analysis of both teams to see how the personnel matches up. I tried to do that some either previously in that thread or elsewhere. Some seemed to think that I was off base there.....but I don't.
Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team. As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
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Guys, sure there is a bit of a difference being on an opposing teams forum, but Mr. Tron is to me not a troll. He actually posts even when they aren't playing, and he certainly isn't as bad as some so called Browns fans (and no, not saying ones that post regularly).
Now I completely disagreed with his talk and reasoning prior to and not long after the game, but he seems like a good guy.
As for what he has said in this thread about not trading... that is what most people are going to say. I mean just take a look (in your memory) at some of the talk on here with regards to some of the Browns earlier this year. People were ready to give up on Baker, OBJ, every defensive player not named Myles and Denzel (and even a few with him), Njoku, Peoples Jones, Higgins.
And if you do indeed think he is trolling, continuing to go after him would in fact be giving him exactly what he wants.
Guys, sure there is a bit of a difference being on an opposing teams forum, but Mr. Tron is to me not a troll. He actually posts even when they aren't playing, and he certainly isn't as bad as some so called Browns fans (and no, not saying ones that post regularly).
Now I completely disagreed with his talk and reasoning prior to and not long after the game, but he seems like a good guy.
As for what he has said in this thread about not trading... that is what most people are going to say. I mean just take a look (in your memory) at some of the talk on here with regards to some of the Browns earlier this year. People were ready to give up on Baker, OBJ, every defensive player not named Myles and Denzel (and even a few with him), Njoku, Peoples Jones, Higgins.
And if you do indeed think he is trolling, continuing to go after him would in fact be giving him exactly what he wants.
Thank you. I appreciate this as I'd like to just exist here and get my interdivision news and continue to associate with those I care to associate with. Now that doesn't mean I don't expect to catch shit or get in heated arguments. I may even say some troll-esque things but I stick around because I've been here a long time. (2003 on my old name)
I enjoy some of you and the conversations that transpire. I hate the Browns, Ravens, Bengals and the fucking rat shit Patriots. I'm never going to be the "great job guys" guy. I hate when rival fans show up and say "great game guys" or whatever the hell else people do. I am guilty of poking and prodding and some of your beef with me stems directly from that. Call me a troll and you are going to get trolled. I put gipper on ignore so a lot of that should calm down. Now I can just deal with the situational mouth breathers with names that rhyme with bal and dickhardforbigben. Either way and I think it goes without saying and why I appreciate this post, I'm not here to ruffle feathers. I'm hear to read, talk football and bs with the guys I enjoy bs'ing with and if any of those guys said "Hey man, I think you should leave the board." I would.
Anyway, I appreciate this post and am happy to bs some inter division stuff and whatever else. I've always been a know thy enemy type because it makes me better. Here I am. ??
And I'd happily have a beer with several of you. I hope to at some point.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Why don't you go through a unit by unit, or even position by position analysis of both teams to see how the personnel matches up. I tried to do that some either previously in that thread or elsewhere. Some seemed to think that I was off base there.....but I don't.
Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team. As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team. As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
Teller, bitonio, hunt, chubb, Garrett. I'm not sold on hooper and while Landry is very good he's at his ceiling and not one of the steeler receivers is and they are all very stout minus the drops. All of which is mental/maturity and not a lack of ability. I wanted the steelers to draft obj but he went too high.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team. As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
Teller, bitonio, hunt, chubb, Garrett. I'm not sold on hooper and while Landry is very good he's at his ceiling and not one of the steeler receivers is and they are all very stout minus the drops. All of which is mental/maturity and not a lack of ability. I wanted the steelers to draft obj but he went too high.
Teller, bitonio, hunt, chubb, Garrett. I'm not sold on hooper and while Landry is very good he's at his ceiling and not one of the steeler receivers is and they are all very stout minus the drops. All of which is mental/maturity and not a lack of ability. I wanted the steelers to draft obj but he went too high.
Ordered mine today
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Guys, sure there is a bit of a difference being on an opposing teams forum, but Mr. Tron is to me not a troll. He actually posts even when they aren't playing, and he certainly isn't as bad as some so called Browns fans (and no, not saying ones that post regularly).
Now I completely disagreed with his talk and reasoning prior to and not long after the game, but he seems like a good guy.
As for what he has said in this thread about not trading... that is what most people are going to say. I mean just take a look (in your memory) at some of the talk on here with regards to some of the Browns earlier this year. People were ready to give up on Baker, OBJ, every defensive player not named Myles and Denzel (and even a few with him), Njoku, Peoples Jones, Higgins.
And if you do indeed think he is trolling, continuing to go after him would in fact be giving him exactly what he wants.
Thank you. I appreciate this as I'd like to just exist here and get my interdivision news and continue to associate with those I care to associate with. Now that doesn't mean I don't expect to catch shit or get in heated arguments. I may even say some troll-esque things but I stick around because I've been here a long time. (2003 on my old name)
I enjoy some of you and the conversations that transpire. I hate the Browns, Ravens, Bengals and the fucking rat shit Patriots. I'm never going to be the "great job guys" guy. I hate when rival fans show up and say "great game guys" or whatever the hell else people do. I am guilty of poking and prodding and some of your beef with me stems directly from that. Call me a troll and you are going to get trolled. I put gipper on ignore so a lot of that should calm down. Now I can just deal with the situational mouth breathers with names that rhyme with bal and dickhardforbigben. Either way and I think it goes without saying and why I appreciate this post, I'm not here to ruffle feathers. I'm hear to read, talk football and bs with the guys I enjoy bs'ing with and if any of those guys said "Hey man, I think you should leave the board." I would.
Anyway, I appreciate this post and am happy to bs some inter division stuff and whatever else. I've always been a know thy enemy type because it makes me better. Here I am. ??
And I'd happily have a beer with several of you. I hope to at some point.
dickhardforbigben
That is one hard word with which to make a rhyme...
... so is "orange".
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
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This shouldn't be confusing but both statements are correct. 41.3 if he's on the roster on 6/2/21; 22.3 if he's cut by 6/1.. but then they have no QB and a charge of 22.3.
Fun is that the 2021cap drops to 176 from current 202.. At present the Steelers are 21M over that cap of 176.. Look out below.
Someone below you stated that by dumping BR they will get immediate cap relief. What say you to that? Sounds like you disagree somewhat. Would they have to do more?
Jujubutt is a FA....let him walk? Same with Dupree...let him walk?
And I guess that sure as hell counts out trading for Wentz, as has been suggested.
Someone below you stated that by dumping BR they will get immediate cap relief. What say you to that? Sounds like you disagree somewhat. Would they have to do more?
Jujubutt is a FA....let him walk? Same with Dupree...let him walk?
And I guess that sure as hell counts out trading for Wentz, as has been suggested.
Cap for each season is a negotiation which hasn't happened yet.. 175 is the earlier-negotiated floor and current best estimate. That link is NFL.com.
2021 cap relief by dumping BR is only 20m.. 42-22.. and they'd then have to bring in a FA QB. Bandaid has to be ripped sometime though.
I'd guess they'd resign Dupree and let Juju go -- S-S is optimally a 3 and occasionally a 2, didn't do well when asked to be a 1. Wentz is now a backup,
."When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team. As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
Teller, bitonio, hunt, chubb, Garrett. I'm not sold on hooper and while Landry is very good he's at his ceiling and not one of the steeler receivers is and they are all very stout minus the drops. All of which is mental/maturity and not a lack of ability. I wanted the steelers to draft obj but he went too high.
- Teller, bitonio, hunt, chubb, Garrett. I'm not sold on hooper and while Landry is very good he's at his ceiling and not one of the steeler receivers is and they are all very stout minus the drops. All of which is mental/maturity and not a lack of ability.
- I wanted the steelers to draft obj but he went too high.
- That's a pretty important "minus".
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We might be able to hook you up... OBJ for Clayborn straight up?
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Someone below you stated that by dumping BR they will get immediate cap relief. What say you to that? Sounds like you disagree somewhat. Would they have to do more?
Jujubutt is a FA....let him walk? Same with Dupree...let him walk?
And I guess that sure as hell counts out trading for Wentz, as has been suggested.
Cap for each season is a negotiation which hasn't happened yet.. 175 is the earlier-negotiated floor and current best estimate. That link is NFL.com.
2021 cap relief by dumping BR is only 20m.. 42-22.. and they'd then have to bring in a FA QB. Bandaid has to be ripped sometime though.
I'd guess they'd resign Dupree and let Juju go -- S-S is optimally a 3 and occasionally a 2, didn't do well when asked to be a 1. Wentz is now a backup,
.2021 cap relief by dumping BR is only 20m.. 42-22..
I did not say "dump". I said "if he retired".
You should consider the source as he is more concerned with his reactions being heard than understanding that to which he has read.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Player retirement is equivalent to them being cut - so an unavoidable 22m cap hit
Also: if a player retires the team can seek to recover any signing bonuses that didn't have explicit protection in the contract against retirement. Cap charge not affected, this is just the check sent to Ben's house.
If this is accurate then the Rooneys not only wouldn't have to pay the 2021 bonus, they could claw back (18.7/3)+(22.25/2) = 17.36M as the 2021 prorated portion of what's listed as his prior signing bonuses from each year. For purposes of the contract, those bonuses are not considered just for that year, they're going to be paid out in annual chunks over the life of the contract.
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Why don't you go through a unit by unit, or even position by position analysis of both teams to see how the personnel matches up. I tried to do that some either previously in that thread or elsewhere. Some seemed to think that I was off base there.....but I don't.
Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team. As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
Actually they did...and I will let you guess who
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Apparently I misunderstood.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team.
Well...I was hoping for a more objective assessment. I felt that I tried to do an objective assessment above.
As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
Well...I guess I have to do my own...attempt, at an objective assessment. I will concede that in a few situations it is difficult:
QB: I do think, at this point...Baker is better. Certainly going forward anyone would take Baker at this point.
RBs: Our top 2..maybe even Top 3 are better than what the Steelers have.
TEs: I think Hooper/Njoku/Bryant top what the Steelers have
WRs. Could be very close. OBJ being out is a factor. We have different kinds of receivers.
OL. By Vag's admission anyway their OL is deteriorating where ours may be the best in the league
DL. They have no one as good as Garrett on the OL. They may or may not have a slight edge at the other spots. Heyward may give them that.
DBs. Because of our significant injuries...it is almost impossible to judge this position....so I will give it a wash just because it is too hard to pin down
STs: Their kicker is better, our punter better.....and I don't know if either has much of a return game.
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Nobody seemed to think you were off-base, you were off base because you have done it MULTIPLE times each of the past 3 years.
Actually they did...and I will let you guess who
But obviously you didn't actually read what I wrote, or failed to understand it.
Apparently I misunderstood.
Even IF EVERY player would be in Cleveland favor, most people would say they wouldn't trade their team for another team. That is part of being a fan of YOUR team.
Well...I was hoping for a more objective assessment. I felt that I tried to do an objective assessment above.
As for saying Baker, OBJ, etc. My point was nowhere near that Steelers had someone better or anything close to it. My point, that has not changed whatsoever is that while our Steelers friend may be complaining about a few of his players and coaches, during THIS season, the one where NOBODY here (according to you) would trade with Steelers, the only players who I can recall not being talked about negatively by either supposedly Browns fans or even a few guys who do in fact regularly post are the OL, Chubb, Hunt, Landry, Hooper, and Garrett. That would appear then that the board collectively (no not individually, but you wanted to speak for the board as a whole) is sold on 10 out of 22.
Well...I guess I have to do my own...attempt, at an objective assessment. I will concede that in a few situations it is difficult:
QB: I do think, at this point...Baker is better. Certainly going forward anyone would take Baker at this point.
RBs: Our top 2..maybe even Top 3 are better than what the Steelers have.
TEs: I think Hooper/Njoku/Bryant top what the Steelers have
WRs. Could be very close. OBJ being out is a factor. We have different kinds of receivers.
OL. By Vag's admission anyway their OL is deteriorating where ours may be the best in the league
DL. They have no one as good as Garrett on the OL. They may or may not have a slight edge at the other spots. Heyward may give them that.
DBs. Because of our significant injuries...it is almost impossible to judge this position....so I will give it a wash just because it is too hard to pin down
STs: Their kicker is better, our punter better.....and I don't know if either has much of a return game.
You still aren't getting it Gip.
I didn't give my assessment at all, so I certainly didn't say you were right or wrong on any of those.
My ENTIRE point was that you can't expect a fan of another team to say that he would trade his team for another.
And the other point I was making is that one, you certainly don't speak for everyone like you said to him multiple times, and 2 that guys that say they are fans (whether it is someone who posts a lot like you, or lesser extent me and a lot of others, or even the guys who seem to only show up negatively (which I certainly called out), have most certainly had varying degrees of negatives about guys on this team. So obviously everyone isn't on the same page for every player. I was just saying that I can recall only 10 who weren't talked about in that manner during this season. So tron having negative feelings about his guys at the moment aren't any different than what was said about Baker, OBJ, DPJ, etc.
You replied to me, thus me saying nobody calling you off base. I don't know what everyone says or feels. All I know is that I read something about you bringing this topic up multiple times, and I have personally seen that the last 3 years, including at the beginning of this season.
I won't go all players, but here are a few
QB: Yes at this moment anyone would take Mayfield going forward, but that has to do with age. If Mayfield has anywhere close to as good of a career as BR then the Browns will be excellent for YEARS. Baker had a slightly better year this year as well.
RB: There is no question here
WR: By skill, the top 2 Browns are better than Steelers and next 2 are better for Pittsburgh
OL: Not a question at all, especially with age. But it's not like Pittsburgh has a terrible Jets/Bengals like OL
DL: Yes Browns have by far the best single player, but as a unit Pitt may have slight edge.
LB: No question Pittsburgh
DB: Pittsburgh has the best player (Minkah), then would be Ward. As a unit, from what we have actually seen, this isn't much different than the Browns advantage on OL or Pitt advantage at LB.
Now that I went up and read yours, we don't differ that much, but I do believe in my opinion that it's a slight cop out to call DBs a wash because of injuries. Half of what is expected to be the starters is based solely on hopeful expectations. That would be like saying Green Bay has the best backup QB in the league because they have a 1st rounder and he seems to have loads of potential.
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