***DIVISIONAL ROUND: Browns AT Chiefs Gameday Thread***
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Heartbreaking loss, not because we lost but because we could have easily won... it feels like this team still has a lot in the tank yet and would give Buffalo a run for it's money.
If I remember it right, I think saw... on the play Mahommes was hit and got knocked out the game, that the ball came loose as he was going to the ground...
It's not a fumble by any means.
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I mentioned Stef calling the game in reverse. Looking at ESPN's play call chart and that appears to be just what happened. Only issue is the offense left a reasonable deal of points on the field today.
Long off-season. So plenty of time to go over draft prospects and Browns film. That work begins Monday morning.
I mentioned Stef calling the game in reverse. Looking at ESPN's play call chart and that appears to be just what happened. Only issue is the offense left a reasonable deal of points on the field today.
Long off-season. So plenty of time to go over draft prospects and Browns film. That work begins Monday morning.
Yep - we had a 2 to 1 (8/4) pass/run ratio on the first drive. Runs were fairly successful 5/6/5 yards one went for 0.
Last drive of the half three minutes left. 6 plays no runs. 2 other plays were passes as well that were negated by penalties.
To Stef’s credit we had a few screens (essentially run plays) dropped by Chubb.
0 runs from Hunt this half.
^^^^This sequence left a lot to be desired.
The good...I love our line heck Hance is GREAT depth. We’ve completely overhauled and fixed it all.
A lot to be desired from our defense so major work there especially up the middle. They actually played a decent game fortunate Mahomes went out- which presented a golden opportunity for us that we couldn’t cash in on. Chad Henne!!! I didn’t even know he was still on a roster.
Tough one to swallow. Great season but that was an opportunity we didn’t take advantage of...gonna be hard to watch next week
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Yeah, I think I (and everyone else here) will take my years and years of experience and knowledge in the game as opposed to a judge who has admitted on this site never played a down???
Don't want to take my opinion, lets ask... @tour2ma, @hoorta, @dutch-oven, @nero, @tiamat63???
Whatever the guy confronting Gipper says.
Gipper you should learn to shut up sometimes. You get to be obnoxious at times and it is only because you'll go through the longest rabbit holes ever.
Whatever the guy confronting Gipper says.
Gipper you should learn to shut up sometimes. You get to be obnoxious at times and it is only because you'll go through the longest rabbit holes ever.
Sorry if you can't keep up.
Yeah, I think I (and everyone else here) will take my years and years of experience and knowledge in the game as opposed to a judge who has admitted on this site never played a down???
Prove it. Provide your resume. (and why with all your experience do you not know how to copy and paste?)
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Don't want to take my opinion, lets ask... @tour2ma, @hoorta, @dutch-oven, @nero, @tiamat63???
But...you see, those are just guys on a chat board. Who sometimes have interesting opinions.
But like I said.....I never claimed to have that same kind of knowledge and experience. (but there are some things where common sense still applies....like thinking that Barmore should not be discounted because one of them thinks he may not "fit"). But what I do do is to look at and read the opinions of actual experts..... So, sorry, I do value those experts opinions more highly than I do these guy's opinions.
Doesn't that make sense? Is there a problem with that?
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Late to the party but very proud of my Browns. My thoughts on the game are we were outcoached yesterday not by a huge margin but in the playoffs just one bad decision can be the difference between winning and losing. Our offense failed us, going into this game I think we all suspected it would take 30+ points to beat KC but we only scored 17. The Defense has been bad all season and to hold KC to 22 points is admirable. We lack speed to defend even Henne's last run and Reid's 4th and 1 call to speedy Hill. Finally we were hosed by bad ref calls but still had a chance to win at the end.
The future's bright and priorities should be to trade or draft a healthy speedy receiver (Beckham's health can't be relied on) and speedy defensive backs, we're no longer looking at winning the AFC north but how to beat teams like KC and Buffalo in the playoffs. Go Browns!!
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Oh, is that what they're calling it now?
What is this you've tagged me in? I'm in no mental condition to go back multiple pages and read at this time.
Sorry confused myself in the 2 threads.
Just went up the page on to tag a few to ask IF Devonta Smith were available at 26 if Browns should take him
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Oh, is that what they're calling it now?
What is this you've tagged me in? I'm in no mental condition to go back multiple pages and read at this time.
Sorry confused myself in the 2 threads.
Just went up the page on to tag a few to ask IF Devonta Smith were available at 26 if Browns should take him
Sorry confused myself in the 2 threads.
Just went up the page on to tag a few to ask IF Devonta Smith were available at 26 if Browns should take him
He won't be there, so it really doesn't matter.
In some Narnia-land-ass pipe dream? That's beyond an easy call. His footwork and strong hands are just special.
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Sorry confused myself in the 2 threads.
Just went up the page on to tag a few to ask IF Devonta Smith were available at 26 if Browns should take him
He won't be there, so it really doesn't matter.
In some Narnia-land-ass pipe dream? That's beyond an easy call. His footwork and strong hands are just special.
He won't be there, so it really doesn't matter.
In some Narnia-land-ass pipe dream? That's beyond an easy call. His footwork and strong hands are just special.
Of course he won't, but there was some confusion about who someone who Gipper was replying to was talking about. So that is where the question came from.
No doubt that he is special, and I think he fits on any team, but WR just isn't a need on this team. So if Smith is left, but you also have 3 d guys left rated in 1st round, I take the D guy
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He won't be there, so it really doesn't matter.
In some Narnia-land-ass pipe dream? That's beyond an easy call. His footwork and strong hands are just special.
Of course he won't, but there was some confusion about who someone who Gipper was replying to was talking about. So that is where the question came from.
No doubt that he is special, and I think he fits on any team, but WR just isn't a need on this team. So if Smith is left, but you also have 3 d guys left rated in 1st round, I take the D guy
Of course he won't, but there was some confusion about who someone who Gipper was replying to was talking about. So that is where the question came from.
No doubt that he is special, and I think he fits on any team, but WR just isn't a need on this team. So if Smith is left, but you also have 3 d guys left rated in 1st round, I take the D guy
Depends on the defensive player, position and where I have them ranked in their said position group. Smith is WR #1 in this draft. If I get the best player to fall to me (without medical concern) and my option is him against, let's say the 5th rated LB? - then I'm taking the receiver.
This defense needs help, zero doubt about that and I'm sure my amateur eyes will find some great additions day 2 and beyond. But the offense is what cost the Browns a date with Buffalo. Don't be so quick to dismiss our need for a true perimeter threat, especially if ODB doesn't come back healthy.
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Whatever the guy confronting Gipper says.
Gipper you should learn to shut up sometimes. You get to be obnoxious at times and it is only because you'll go through the longest rabbit holes ever.
Sorry if you can't keep up.
Yeah, I think I (and everyone else here) will take my years and years of experience and knowledge in the game as opposed to a judge who has admitted on this site never played a down???
Prove it. Provide your resume. (and why with all your experience do you not know how to copy and paste?)
Sorry if you can't keep up.
Yeah, I think I (and everyone else here) will take my years and years of experience and knowledge in the game as opposed to a judge who has admitted on this site never played a down???
Prove it. Provide your resume. (and why with all your experience do you not know how to copy and paste?)
I'm guessing this is supposed to be somehow directed at me. Which if so makes it even funnier, since you are trying to discredit based on not knowing how to copy and paste, and didn't even tag the correct person. And 2, I have no idea how that has a thing to do with football knowledge but ok???
And secondly, I don't care what you or anyone else believes. But I absolutely am not going to put my personal information online somewhere that I don't know the security of it, especially with people I don't know (and that is absolutely no offense to anyone). I'm pretty dumb, but not that dumb.
I don't know why everyone else believes me, and you don't want to. I certainly don't know what I would have to gain by lying about that? But go ahead and believe what you want
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Sorry if you can't keep up.
Yeah, I think I (and everyone else here) will take my years and years of experience and knowledge in the game as opposed to a judge who has admitted on this site never played a down???
Prove it. Provide your resume. (and why with all your experience do you not know how to copy and paste?)
I'm guessing this is supposed to be somehow directed at me. Which if so makes it even funnier, since you are trying to discredit based on not knowing how to copy and paste, and didn't even tag the correct person. And 2, I have no idea how that has a thing to do with football knowledge but ok???
And secondly, I don't care what you or anyone else believes. But I absolutely am not going to put my personal information online somewhere that I don't know the security of it, especially with people I don't know (and that is absolutely no offense to anyone). I'm pretty dumb, but not that dumb.
I don't know why everyone else believes me, and you don't want to. I certainly don't know what I would have to gain by lying about that? But go ahead and believe what you want
I'm guessing this is supposed to be somehow directed at me. Which if so makes it even funnier, since you are trying to discredit based on not knowing how to copy and paste, and didn't even tag the correct person. And 2, I have no idea how that has a thing to do with football knowledge but ok???
And secondly, I don't care what you or anyone else believes. But I absolutely am not going to put my personal information online somewhere that I don't know the security of it, especially with people I don't know (and that is absolutely no offense to anyone). I'm pretty dumb, but not that dumb.
I don't know why everyone else believes me, and you don't want to. I certainly don't know what I would have to gain by lying about that? But go ahead and believe what you want
Just fucking with you. I believe you are Knute Rockne reincarnated!
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Of course he won't, but there was some confusion about who someone who Gipper was replying to was talking about. So that is where the question came from.
No doubt that he is special, and I think he fits on any team, but WR just isn't a need on this team. So if Smith is left, but you also have 3 d guys left rated in 1st round, I take the D guy
Depends on the defensive player, position and where I have them ranked in their said position group. Smith is WR #1 in this draft. If I get the best player to fall to me (without medical concern) and my option is him against, let's say the 5th rated LB? - then I'm taking the receiver.
This defense needs help, zero doubt about that and I'm sure my amateur eyes will find some great additions day 2 and beyond. But the offense is what cost the Browns a date with Buffalo. Don't be so quick to dismiss our need for a true perimeter threat, especially if ODB doesn't come back healthy.
Depends on the defensive player, position and where I have them ranked in their said position group. Smith is WR #1 in this draft. If I get the best player to fall to me (without medical concern) and my option is him against, let's say the 5th rated LB? - then I'm taking the receiver.
This defense needs help, zero doubt about that and I'm sure my amateur eyes will find some great additions day 2 and beyond. But the offense is what cost the Browns a date with Buffalo. Don't be so quick to dismiss our need for a true perimeter threat, especially if ODB doesn't come back healthy.
I agree, but I am basing that off of OBJ being back. If he is gone then absolutely. But again it depends on what is left.
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I'm guessing this is supposed to be somehow directed at me. Which if so makes it even funnier, since you are trying to discredit based on not knowing how to copy and paste, and didn't even tag the correct person. And 2, I have no idea how that has a thing to do with football knowledge but ok???
And secondly, I don't care what you or anyone else believes. But I absolutely am not going to put my personal information online somewhere that I don't know the security of it, especially with people I don't know (and that is absolutely no offense to anyone). I'm pretty dumb, but not that dumb.
I don't know why everyone else believes me, and you don't want to. I certainly don't know what I would have to gain by lying about that? But go ahead and believe what you want
Just fucking with you. I believe you are Knute Rockne reincarnated!
Just fucking with you. I believe you are Knute Rockne reincarnated!
Nobody said that, I don't even pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on this board, certainly don't know more than A LOT of people in the country, and of course I am biased, but I have a coaching father who knows more than me (shh. Dont tell him that).
My whole point with that, is that someone who hasn't been there (nothing wrong with that, and not saying NFL obviously) may not have the same insight
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Depends on the defensive player, position and where I have them ranked in their said position group. Smith is WR #1 in this draft. If I get the best player to fall to me (without medical concern) and my option is him against, let's say the 5th rated LB? - then I'm taking the receiver.
This defense needs help, zero doubt about that and I'm sure my amateur eyes will find some great additions day 2 and beyond. But the offense is what cost the Browns a date with Buffalo. Don't be so quick to dismiss our need for a true perimeter threat, especially if ODB doesn't come back healthy.
I agree, but I am basing that off of OBJ being back. If he is gone then absolutely. But again it depends on what is left.
I agree, but I am basing that off of OBJ being back. If he is gone then absolutely. But again it depends on what is left.
There's a lot that will go into such a decision between now and the draft.
But there's a couple things yesterday hightlighted.
- Defenses don't fear our speed
- In order to utilize the misdirection and sweeps like KC does, we're going to need our... How did @tour2ma put it? "Jitterbug" receiver.
Chiefs didn't have to do it much with Hardman, only a few times. But those few times really contributes to slowing down edge rush and widening out/freezing linebackers. Stef would be wise in this copycat league to make those sorts of instant offense plays a priority in the off-season.
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Just fucking with you. I believe you are Knute Rockne reincarnated!
Nobody said that, I don't even pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on this board, certainly don't know more than A LOT of people in the country, and of course I am biased, but I have a coaching father who knows more than me (shh. Dont tell him that).
My whole point with that, is that someone who hasn't been there (nothing wrong with that, and not saying NFL obviously) may not have the same insight
Nobody said that, I don't even pretend to be the most knowledgeable person on this board, certainly don't know more than A LOT of people in the country, and of course I am biased, but I have a coaching father who knows more than me (shh. Dont tell him that).
My whole point with that, is that someone who hasn't been there (nothing wrong with that, and not saying NFL obviously) may not have the same insight
I never claimed to have the same insight...into that sort of thing. Its why I have been asking about this "fit" situation.
I mean, Dutch says "take the best defensive player on the board, regardless of position". Then I say..."what about Barmore" He says "only if he is a fit". I say: "doesn't a guy that can stop the run and rush the passer fit". And he goes off on that as if he was Abraham being asked to sacrifice his son. So, I ask: what did I miss there? What "insight" did I not have?
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I don’t think you can rule out any position on defense in the first round.
Another stud DE may be a great choice.
Our D. Coordinator who we are probably stuck with loves getting pressure with just his front 4.
Maybe a better pass rushing presence interior Dlineman.
I know We need some LBs when you have Myles Garrett chasing down backs 40 yards downfield with no LB in sight - you got problems there too.
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I don’t think you can rule out any position on defense in the first round.
Another stud DE may be a great choice.
Our D. Coordinator who we are probably stuck with loves getting pressure with just his front 4.
Maybe a better pass rushing presence interior Dlineman.
I know We need some LBs when you have Myles Garrett chasing down backs 40 yards downfield with no LB in sight - you got problems there too.
I don’t think you can rule out any position on defense in the first round.
Another stud DE may be a great choice.
Our D. Coordinator who we are probably stuck with loves getting pressure with just his front 4.
Maybe a better pass rushing presence interior Dlineman.
I know We need some LBs when you have Myles Garrett chasing down backs 40 yards downfield with no LB in sight - you got problems there too.
That's called "literally any D cord ever".
If I'm forcing the issue with the smallest amount of rushers, then why change and expose my LB's along with my secondary? You should probably check the Browns pressure rates on the season against those from the previous few years when we blitzed 15-25% more. You might find yourself surprised.
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I don’t think you can rule out any position on defense in the first round.
Another stud DE may be a great choice.
Our D. Coordinator who we are probably stuck with loves getting pressure with just his front 4.
Maybe a better pass rushing presence interior Dlineman.
I know We need some LBs when you have Myles Garrett chasing down backs 40 yards downfield with no LB in sight - you got problems there too.
That's called "literally any D cord ever".
If I'm forcing the issue with the smallest amount of rushers, then why change and expose my LB's along with my secondary? You should probably check the Browns pressure rates on the season against those from the previous few years when we blitzed 15-25% more. You might find yourself surprised.
That's called "literally any D cord ever".
If I'm forcing the issue with the smallest amount of rushers, then why change and expose my LB's along with my secondary? You should probably check the Browns pressure rates on the season against those from the previous few years when we blitzed 15-25% more. You might find yourself surprised.
Absolutely but what’s the next move when your front 4 can’t get enough pressure?
I found myself surprised throughout the year at different points when we let a guy like Mike Glennon sit in a pocket for 6 seconds each play for 60 minutes.
I see this sit back and have an extra guy vs blitz scenario a little differently...you think it’s exposing a secondary when you take a guy away from coverage. I see bringing an extra blitzer as a way to force an errant throw or get a sack or a throwaway and force a punt...we know we don’t force many of those right? Throughout the year our extra guy or two in coverage seemingly couldn’t find WRs or impact throwing lanes. I’m not saying bring it every down.
Guys like Jackson, MJ Stewart, etc bless their hearts they try....but I don’t want see them cover crossing routes for 6-7 seconds.
The other issue is a personnel issue...I like Joseph but aside from the fair catch INT he had I really don’t like him in a role of reading the field and playing coverage...so I’d prefer he attack the QB more. it’s not Woods fault that Delpit went out but your job sometimes is to turn chicken $h!t into chicken salad or adapt just a tad outside your conservative nature...that’s coaching.
Woods with four Dudes upfront...probably amazing. So why don’t we get those dudes?
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That's called "literally any D cord ever".
If I'm forcing the issue with the smallest amount of rushers, then why change and expose my LB's along with my secondary? You should probably check the Browns pressure rates on the season against those from the previous few years when we blitzed 15-25% more. You might find yourself surprised.
Absolutely but what’s the next move when your front 4 can’t get enough pressure?
I found myself surprised throughout the year at different points when we let a guy like Mike Glennon sit in a pocket for 6 seconds each play for 60 minutes.
I see this sit back and have an extra guy vs blitz scenario a little differently...you think it’s exposing a secondary when you take a guy away from coverage. I see bringing an extra blitzer as a way to force an errant throw or get a sack or a throwaway and force a punt...we know we don’t force many of those right? Throughout the year our extra guy or two in coverage seemingly couldn’t find WRs or impact throwing lanes. I’m not saying bring it every down.
Guys like Jackson, MJ Stewart, etc bless their hearts they try....but I don’t want see them cover crossing routes for 6-7 seconds.
The other issue is a personnel issue...I like Joseph but aside from the fair catch INT he had I really don’t like him in a role of reading the field and playing coverage...so I’d prefer he attack the QB more. it’s not Woods fault that Delpit went out but your job sometimes is to turn chicken $h!t into chicken salad or adapt just a tad outside your conservative nature...that’s coaching.
Woods with four Dudes upfront...probably amazing. So why don’t we get those dudes?
Absolutely but what’s the next move when your front 4 can’t get enough pressure?
I found myself surprised throughout the year at different points when we let a guy like Mike Glennon sit in a pocket for 6 seconds each play for 60 minutes.
I see this sit back and have an extra guy vs blitz scenario a little differently...you think it’s exposing a secondary when you take a guy away from coverage. I see bringing an extra blitzer as a way to force an errant throw or get a sack or a throwaway and force a punt...we know we don’t force many of those right? Throughout the year our extra guy or two in coverage seemingly couldn’t find WRs or impact throwing lanes.
The other issue is a personnel issue...I like Joseph but aside from the fair catch INT he had I really don’t like him in a role of reading the field and playing coverage...so I’d prefer he attack the QB more. it’s not Woods fault that Delpit went out but your job sometimes is to turn chicken $h!t into chicken salad.
The issue is when your explosive plays given up rises commensurately with the blitz rate. When the Browns sent 5 men or more this year, the pressure rate increase was marginal at best. So if my return on investment isn't worth it, then I'm kind of fucked... no?
You'll notice a small shift in defensive philosophy over the second half of the season. Remember all the single high looks Sendejo and Joesph were being burned on? Those started to not be so noticeable the last 8 weeks, huh? That's because, in getting away from the C3 and C1 alignments Woods favored in Denver, went went to more C2, C6 and quarters here hoping to limit....wait for it... our DB's (not named Ward or Mitch) exposure as much as he possibly could. So there is a self-awareness the man has of his own roster and what he was able to call reliably this season. Hint - it wasn't much.
I don't think sending a 5th or 6th immediately exposes a secondary. But I think (know) it immediately exposes the Browns secondary. Because outside of Ward and Mitch, they're really not starting quality. Does it hurt a team like the Rams? No, they have starting quality DB's across the board. We can't say the same here in CLE, sadly.
Personnel is your first and foremost concern with this defense. Any conversation to changes beyond that without addressing the former is just spinning wheels.
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Absolutely but what’s the next move when your front 4 can’t get enough pressure?
I found myself surprised throughout the year at different points when we let a guy like Mike Glennon sit in a pocket for 6 seconds each play for 60 minutes.
I see this sit back and have an extra guy vs blitz scenario a little differently...you think it’s exposing a secondary when you take a guy away from coverage. I see bringing an extra blitzer as a way to force an errant throw or get a sack or a throwaway and force a punt...we know we don’t force many of those right? Throughout the year our extra guy or two in coverage seemingly couldn’t find WRs or impact throwing lanes.
The other issue is a personnel issue...I like Joseph but aside from the fair catch INT he had I really don’t like him in a role of reading the field and playing coverage...so I’d prefer he attack the QB more. it’s not Woods fault that Delpit went out but your job sometimes is to turn chicken $h!t into chicken salad.
The issue is when your explosive plays given up rises commensurately with the blitz rate. When the Browns sent 5 men or more this year, the pressure rate increase was marginal at best. So if my return on investment isn't worth it, then I'm kind of fucked... no?
You'll notice a small shift in defensive philosophy over the second half of the season. Remember all the single high looks Sendejo and Joesph were being burned on? Those started to not be so noticeable the last 8 weeks, huh? That's because, in getting away from the C3 and C1 alignments Woods favored in Denver, went went to more C2, C6 and quarters here hoping to limit....wait for it... our DB's (not named Ward or Mitch) exposure as much as he possibly could. So there is a self-awareness the man has of his own roster and what he was able to call reliably this season. Hint - it wasn't much.
I don't think sending a 5th or 6th immediately exposes a secondary. But I think (know) it immediately exposes the Browns secondary. Because outside of Ward and Mitch, they're really not starting quality. Does it hurt a team like the Rams? No, they have starting quality DB's across the board. We can't say the same here in CLE, sadly.
Personnel is your first and foremost concern with this defense. Any conversation to changes beyond that without addressing the former is just spinning wheels.
The issue is when your explosive plays given up rises commensurately with the blitz rate. When the Browns sent 5 men or more this year, the pressure rate increase was marginal at best.
I don't think sending a 5th or 6th immediately exposes a secondary. But I think (know) it immediately exposes the Browns secondary. Because outside of Ward and Mitch, they're really not starting quality. Does it hurt a team like the Rams? No, they have starting quality DB's across the board. We can't say the same here in CLE, sadly.
Personnel is your first and foremost concern with this defense. Any conversation to changes beyond that without addressing the former is just spinning wheels.
We had some explosive plays our way when we pressured too. One of the few plays we made on defense in week 17 was a pressure and a pick. And we had some explosive plays the other way with 7 guys back and miscommunication- see the Jets game. I lost count here but we seemingly had enough communication breakdowns in our secondary to fill a 2-3 seasons.
So we are better off watching a guy like Joseph try in coverage 90% of the time vs. 70% of the time- where he creeps up to the LOS more often and chasing down the QB?
When you communicate like we did in the back 7 I think you help a guy more the less time he has to spend trailing in coverage.
I know we have personnel issues but I’m talking myself more and more into hoping we land an impact front 4 player.
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