***DIVISIONAL ROUND: Browns AT Chiefs Gameday Thread***
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I agree, but I am basing that off of OBJ being back. If he is gone then absolutely. But again it depends on what is left.
There's a lot that will go into such a decision between now and the draft.
But there's a couple things yesterday hightlighted.
- Defenses don't fear our speed
- In order to utilize the misdirection and sweeps like KC does, we're going to need our... How did @tour2ma put it? "Jitterbug" receiver.
Chiefs didn't have to do it much with Hardman, only a few times. But those few times really contributes to slowing down edge rush and widening out/freezing linebackers. Stef would be wise in this copycat league to make those sorts of instant offense plays a priority in the off-season.
But there's a couple things yesterday hightlighted.
- Defenses don't fear our speed
- In order to utilize the misdirection and sweeps like KC does, we're going to need our... How did @tour2ma put it? "Jitterbug" receiver.
Yup...Never more in evidence than our that pathetic "Jet sweep" with Landry we tried yesterday.
And why we were trying to run wide escapes me. I think we had one successful sweep... the one to the right with Tretter and Teller pulling.
Obviously the need for speed is true on our D-side as well. Especially in at least 4 of our back 7. Hopefully Delpit makes it 3... Greedy could make it 2, but... Greedy...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Absolutely but what’s the next move when your front 4 can’t get enough pressure?
I found myself surprised throughout the year at different points when we let a guy like Mike Glennon sit in a pocket for 6 seconds each play for 60 minutes.
I see this sit back and have an extra guy vs blitz scenario a little differently...you think it’s exposing a secondary when you take a guy away from coverage. I see bringing an extra blitzer as a way to force an errant throw or get a sack or a throwaway and force a punt...we know we don’t force many of those right? Throughout the year our extra guy or two in coverage seemingly couldn’t find WRs or impact throwing lanes.
The other issue is a personnel issue...I like Joseph but aside from the fair catch INT he had I really don’t like him in a role of reading the field and playing coverage...so I’d prefer he attack the QB more. it’s not Woods fault that Delpit went out but your job sometimes is to turn chicken $h!t into chicken salad.
The issue is when your explosive plays given up rises commensurately with the blitz rate. When the Browns sent 5 men or more this year, the pressure rate increase was marginal at best. So if my return on investment isn't worth it, then I'm kind of fucked... no?
You'll notice a small shift in defensive philosophy over the second half of the season. Remember all the single high looks Sendejo and Joesph were being burned on? Those started to not be so noticeable the last 8 weeks, huh? That's because, in getting away from the C3 and C1 alignments Woods favored in Denver, went went to more C2, C6 and quarters here hoping to limit....wait for it... our DB's (not named Ward or Mitch) exposure as much as he possibly could. So there is a self-awareness the man has of his own roster and what he was able to call reliably this season. Hint - it wasn't much.
I don't think sending a 5th or 6th immediately exposes a secondary. But I think (know) it immediately exposes the Browns secondary. Because outside of Ward and Mitch, they're really not starting quality. Does it hurt a team like the Rams? No, they have starting quality DB's across the board. We can't say the same here in CLE, sadly.
Personnel is your first and foremost concern with this defense. Any conversation to changes beyond that without addressing the former is just spinning wheels.
The issue is when your explosive plays given up rises commensurately with the blitz rate. When the Browns sent 5 men or more this year, the pressure rate increase was marginal at best. So if my return on investment isn't worth it, then I'm kind of fucked... no?
Absolutely... but the less frequent the blitz the more effective it should be... element of surprise and all that.
But surprise is simply not enough. You've got to disguise and design to generate a free runner... and that free runner has to be fast, yet come under control.
Excepting maybe Phillips, that combo is not in our LB room and excepting Ward, Harrison and maybe Mitchell, it is not in our 2ndary either. Not to mention that you'd prefer not to blitz one of your best cover guys.
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So apparently mahomes doesn't have a concussion, a surgeon who also covers the steelers tweeted today that his uneasiness could be attributed to a vasogal response and his blood pressure dropped. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve. I was hoping to watch them flounder with Henne under center.
attributed to a vasogal response
I would think you of all people would know how to spell Vagisil...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Given the defensive personnel, I do not think any coordinator could make this defense great. We need to upgrade the linebackers and Sendejo at a minimum
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This needs movement. Somewhat unpopular opinion around here though.
It's funny because he does some good things but he chokes too often in critical scenarios. I can't get over the 4th down numbers, the 3rd and 10 against McSorely, and the 3rd and longs with Henne. I'm not sure he has what it takes.
It's funny because he does some good things but he chokes too often in critical scenarios. I can't get over the 4th down numbers, the 3rd and 10 against McSorely, and the 3rd and longs with Henne. I'm not sure he has what it takes.
If we believe we can improve upon Joe Woods, then I am sure we will, but as has been known since before our game one kickoff, we were "making do" on our D-side this season.
The real question is what path did our D follow threw this season? Did it improve or did it decline? The answers are made more difficult to determine by Covid atop the usual injury impacts, but I don't think they are unknowable.
I'm satisfied that the improvement was there. So personally I have no issue with us seeing what Woods can do with more tools and a full TC and preseason to learn what his squad can and cannot do.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I would think you of all people would know how to spell Vagisil...
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I'm actually talking about a real medical event tho. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve and his wooziness is attributed to that and not his head hitting the ground SO your take that it didn't hit very hard is accurate.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
I would think you of all people would know how to spell Vagisil...
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I'm actually talking about a real medical event tho. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve and his wooziness is attributed to that and not his head hitting the ground SO your take that it didn't hit very hard is accurate.
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I'm actually talking about a real medical event tho. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve and his wooziness is attributed to that and not his head hitting the ground SO your take that it didn't hit very hard is accurate.
And Mahomes one was minor. I have seen a serious vasovagal and it is pretty scary.
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I would think you of all people would know how to spell Vagisil...
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I'm actually talking about a real medical event tho. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve and his wooziness is attributed to that and not his head hitting the ground SO your take that it didn't hit very hard is accurate.
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I'm actually talking about a real medical event tho. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve and his wooziness is attributed to that and not his head hitting the ground SO your take that it didn't hit very hard is accurate.
Well... since you said I was right about something... now you have my attention.
truth was I did not know what vasovagal (syncope) was. Now I do...
So now the question is what prompted it? Only thing I know is Mahommes looked "scared" as his head was approaching the ground. Have to add that does not seem consistent with all the times I've seen him take hits. Then again he does not take them very often... minds eye is now replaying a lot of slides and scampers OB.
So I guess it is possible that this time he knew he was not in control of what was coming at him... and it triggered the reaction.
At any rate it's an interesting speculation that I am sure teams across the league will be considering. Not that a QB who doesn't like to be hit is anything new.
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I still contend that somehow the oxygen got cut off to his brain, from the tackle around his neck, and that is what caused him to black out while attempting to stand.
And fuck Travis Kelce.
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I'm actually talking about a real medical event tho. The chiefs are saying pinched nerve and his wooziness is attributed to that and not his head hitting the ground SO your take that it didn't hit very hard is accurate.
And Mahomes one was minor. I have seen a serious vasovagal and it is pretty scary.
And Mahomes one was minor. I have seen a serious vasovagal and it is pretty scary.
Do the symptoms include the... I want to say "planking, but I know that's wrong... the involuntary arm and leg extending that the Dr. that ATOM posted was talking about?
EDIT: Term was "fencing response" and it was Nero that made the original post which ATOM quoted.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
For sure! I have never been so happy to be so wrong regarding Baker. He's our dude for the next 7-10 years and he is good enough to win a Super Bowl if we can put a defense around him.
Pretty sure that would constitute "too many men on the field."
my 53 years of life
No wonder those 30-something riders get pissed.
You're right, he was down. Went and watched it again... Mack knocked the ball out just after he hit the ground, that's what I saw.
Knee was down... ground knocked the ball loose momentarily and Mahommes reflexively pulled it back to him.
Last part was actually quite impressive considering the stars he was seeing at that moment.
Pretty sure that would constitute "too many men on the field."
No wonder those 30-something riders get pissed.
Knee was down... ground knocked the ball loose momentarily and Mahommes reflexively pulled it back to him.
Last part was actually quite impressive considering the stars he was seeing at that moment.
Crazy that a guy that everyone claims is so good damn near knocked himself out of the game trying to slide...
Mahomes is good QB without a doubt but I'd take Baker Mayfield over him everyday of the week.
The secret of getting ahead is getting started. The secret of getting started is breaking your complex overwhelming tasks into small manageable tasks, and then starting on the first one. -Mark Twain- "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." -Mark Twain- -
Pretty sure that would constitute "too many men on the field."
No wonder those 30-something riders get pissed.
Knee was down... ground knocked the ball loose momentarily and Mahommes reflexively pulled it back to him.
Last part was actually quite impressive considering the stars he was seeing at that moment.
Crazy that a guy that everyone claims is so good damn near knocked himself out of the game trying to slide...
Mahomes is good QB without a doubt but I'd take Baker Mayfield over him everyday of the week.
Mahomes is good QB without a doubt but I'd take Baker Mayfield over him everyday of the week.
Well I see time away from the board hasn't changed anything for PoG.
Good lord.
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If it was vasovagal, I'd say he would have been KO'd.
My sister had one when my brother in law was dry needling her. She said "I'm not OK" and a milisecond later she was switched off as a computer. Instant KO. We had to run to hold her because she almost hits badly with a table.
No way Mahomes doesn't lose conscience even for a second, and then isn't able to return for 2 quarters. My sister in half an hour was back to nromal and had it way worse.
Sutterer explaination that it is a concussion produced by a fast neck movement sounds more legit to me, looking at the reaction of the left side of his body.
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Well I see time away from the board hasn't changed anything for PoG.
Good lord.
I sit here in stunned disbelief. I had to actually grab the devil lettuce and take a rip to ponder it again in an effort to just understand. I'm still at a loss.
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If it was vasovagal, I'd say he would have been KO'd.
My sister had one when my brother in law was dry needling her. She said "I'm not OK" and a milisecond later she was switched off as a computer. Instant KO. We had to run to hold her because she almost hits badly with a table.
No way Mahomes doesn't lose conscience even for a second, and then isn't able to return for 2 quarters. My sister in half an hour was back to nromal and had it way worse.
Sutterer explaination that it is a concussion produced by a fast neck movement sounds more legit to me, looking at the reaction of the left side of his body.
If it was vasovagal, I'd say he would have been KO'd.
My sister had one when my brother in law was dry needling her. She said "I'm not OK" and a milisecond later she was switched off as a computer. Instant KO. We had to run to hold her because she almost hits badly with a table.
No way Mahomes doesn't lose conscience even for a second, and then isn't able to return for 2 quarters. My sister in half an hour was back to nromal and had it way worse.
Sutterer explaination that it is a concussion produced by a fast neck movement sounds more legit to me, looking at the reaction of the left side of his body.
I mean something had to have happened for him to not go into protocol and the team to label it a pinched nerve. I only offered that diagnosis after reading a tweet from a surgeon that writes for a steeler site i follow. I had no idea what the hell it was up until that point. Pro athletes + adrenaline maybe it didn't take him out for that reason?
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
And Mahomes one was minor. I have seen a serious vasovagal and it is pretty scary.
Do the symptoms include the... I want to say "planking, but I know that's wrong... the involuntary arm and leg extending that the Dr. that ATOM posted was talking about?
EDIT: Term was "fencing response" and it was Nero that made the original post which ATOM quoted.
Do the symptoms include the... I want to say "planking, but I know that's wrong... the involuntary arm and leg extending that the Dr. that ATOM posted was talking about?
EDIT: Term was "fencing response" and it was Nero that made the original post which ATOM quoted.
I have no clue. The one serious one I witnessed was after someone had an IV put in, eyes rolled back of head and like passed out and whole body tensed up. Somewhat like a seizure, without the shake. About 30 seconds later back to normal.
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Well I see time away from the board hasn't changed anything for PoG.
Good lord.
and maybe i'm just baked but i read his little myspace bio under is avatar and it has me in my feelings. I'm ready to get creative!
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
PoG has been on here more Since the Browns lost yesterday that he has been here all year long.
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There was actually almost 2 mins left. And We saw some big chunk pass plays.
I’m going to say 20%-25%
Wrong dude. 4th down play was snapped at 1:16, & 5 secs on play clock. Max time after punt would have been 65 seconds.
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If it was vasovagal, I'd say he would have been KO'd.
My sister had one when my brother in law was dry needling her. She said "I'm not OK" and a milisecond later she was switched off as a computer. Instant KO. We had to run to hold her because she almost hits badly with a table.
No way Mahomes doesn't lose conscience even for a second, and then isn't able to return for 2 quarters. My sister in half an hour was back to nromal and had it way worse.
Sutterer explaination that it is a concussion produced by a fast neck movement sounds more legit to me, looking at the reaction of the left side of his body.
I mean something had to have happened for him to not go into protocol and the team to label it a pinched nerve. I only offered that diagnosis after reading a tweet from a surgeon that writes for a steeler site i follow. I had no idea what the hell it was up until that point. Pro athletes + adrenaline maybe it didn't take him out for that reason?
I mean something had to have happened for him to not go into protocol and the team to label it a pinched nerve. I only offered that diagnosis after reading a tweet from a surgeon that writes for a steeler site i follow. I had no idea what the hell it was up until that point. Pro athletes + adrenaline maybe it didn't take him out for that reason?
He went into protocol, and a vasovagal syncop I'd say is not like a muscle injury that the adrenaline and energy can work around. It is closer to a suckerpunch in the liver that turns you off.
What Mahomes had was closer to a KO by a hook to the head: fast neck movement, resulting in a self defense ('fencing') position reaction by the body.
I think that one way or another they'll work around the concussion protocol so the NFL playoffs don't go Mahomes-less. Maybe the vasovagal historyline is there for that reason. First one to mention it was a KC journalist and even Rapaport was surprised by that because he knew nothing...
PS: my English vocabulary is lacking at medicine+boxing so I hope I explained myself.
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