Reasons why the Browns' defense will take them to the superbowl
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Yes, I am an asshole. Much like any good comedian, I'm an asshole who presents the truth - but through the prism of humor. I'm just not always so subtle about it. In this case, I'm an even bigger asshole because I am (demonstrably) correct.
Dunning Kruger in this particular case is hilariously applicable to you. So not only do you have a mental affliction for these topics, you also suffer from severe projection. I've gone as far as to detail on this board posts that you are welcomed to search for, Joe Woods transition away from the single high/MOTFC looks which he loved so much in Denver and was forced into more 2 high looks between C2, C4, C6, C9 and such in Cleveland because of just how bad our DB play was. I can do so at a pretty high level whilst you cannot. So...... yeah, DK all the way, champ.
You regale us with these complaints about Joe Woods, but you lack any and all ability to explain them at even the most fundamental level. And because you have no idea what you're really saying, more specifically the "why" behind it, then you're really just bitching at this point.
There are reasons why my posts on this board receive more upvotes, likes, quotes and weighed attention than yours. You might want to take a step back and ask why that reason is.
Seems the person most bothered by this is... You!.. I OWN YOU! Fuck you and your "sissy" Upvotes,,, Apparently your looking for a medal... There's the "Special Olympics" for people like you...
Joe Woods sucks... Big Deal.. He got a SB on Wade Phillips's coat tails.. I don't see teams rushing to hire him as their HC..
So stick those upvotes up your ASS!
Apparently your looking for a medal...
There's the "Special Olympics" for people like you...
I always enjoy things like this.
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Is it about the Xs and Os? or is it about the Jimmys and Joes? Or both?
Joe expects the pressure to come upfront with his front 4. He’s known as one of the more conservative D coordinators in the league. So as long as he’s here we need a steady rotation of guys upfront that can create pressure. You will not see exotic Joe and his pressure from other spots often.
Case in point...
I couldn’t stand his approach on 4th downs last year where We would see soft coverage and pressure with 4 and then a five yard catch and run to move the chains on 4th and 4.
I acknowledge the fact that we didn’t have much...we had a guy like Delpit go down. But you don’t help a slow and green secondary by making those guys cover an extra couple seconds you have disrupt the QBs timing get him off his spot and force errant throws that way.
Example of some madness:
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
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Is it about the Xs and Os? or is it about the Jimmys and Joes? Or both?
Joe expects the pressure to come upfront with his front 4. He’s known as one of the more conservative D coordinators in the league. So as long as he’s here we need a steady rotation of guys upfront that can create pressure. You will not see exotic Joe and his pressure from other spots often.
Case in point...
I couldn’t stand his approach on 4th downs last year where We would see soft coverage and pressure with 4 and then a five yard catch and run to move the chains on 4th and 4.
I acknowledge the fact that we didn’t have much...we had a guy like Delpit go down. But you don’t help a slow and green secondary by making those guys cover an extra couple seconds you have disrupt the QBs timing get him off his spot and force errant throws that way.
Example of some madness:
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
Is it about the Xs and Os? or is it about the Jimmys and Joes? Or both?
Joe expects the pressure to come upfront with his front 4. He’s known as one of the more conservative D coordinators in the league. So as long as he’s here we need a steady rotation of guys upfront that can create pressure. You will not see exotic Joe and his pressure from other spots often.
Case in point...
I couldn’t stand his approach on 4th downs last year where We would see soft coverage and pressure with 4 and then a five yard catch and run to move the chains on 4th and 4.
I acknowledge the fact that we didn’t have much...we had a guy like Delpit go down. But you don’t help a slow and green secondary by making those guys cover an extra couple seconds you have disrupt the QBs timing get him off his spot and force errant throws that way.
Example of some madness:
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
I think Woods annoyed a lot of us with that - but for good reason. With a lack of talent, having Joseph play in the box would give up quicker scores. "Bend don't break" was surely due to a lack of talent. Gregg Williams blitzed a good bit more, but Woods' defenses have gotten a lot more pressures.
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2020/10/18/browns-defense-blitz-rate-qb-pressure-joe-woods-scheme/
It's a trade off - Different coverages to cover up for a lack of talent/speed in the secondary. Blitzing is fairly worthless when you can't cover a TE or RB that floats over the middle of a loose zone. Play tighter, get beaten more. Lack of talent, the Browns had to try to bend but not give up dramatic quick scores.
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2021/07/04/browns-2020-pass-coverage-schemes-surprisingly-unique/
No worries for me - I think with the talent, Woods will utilize it to the max. We'll see.
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Wasn't nickers the poster who said that Kevin Stefanski was going to suck based on nicker's thinking that Stefanski was effeminate-looking?
Before any of you really think about this, the answer is yes.
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Wasn't nickers the poster who said that Kevin Stefanski was going to suck based on nicker's thinking that Stefanski was effeminate-looking?
Before any of you really think about this, the answer is yes.
nicker's thinking that Stefanski was effeminate-looking?
Kinder than DieHard's take on our Chief of Staff...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Is it about the Xs and Os? or is it about the Jimmys and Joes? Or both?
Joe expects the pressure to come upfront with his front 4. He’s known as one of the more conservative D coordinators in the league. So as long as he’s here we need a steady rotation of guys upfront that can create pressure. You will not see exotic Joe and his pressure from other spots often.
Case in point...
I couldn’t stand his approach on 4th downs last year where We would see soft coverage and pressure with 4 and then a five yard catch and run to move the chains on 4th and 4.
I acknowledge the fact that we didn’t have much...we had a guy like Delpit go down. But you don’t help a slow and green secondary by making those guys cover an extra couple seconds you have disrupt the QBs timing get him off his spot and force errant throws that way.
Example of some madness:
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
Is it about the Xs and Os? or is it about the Jimmys and Joes? Or both?
Joe expects the pressure to come upfront with his front 4. He’s known as one of the more conservative D coordinators in the league. So as long as he’s here we need a steady rotation of guys upfront that can create pressure. You will not see exotic Joe and his pressure from other spots often.
Case in point...
I couldn’t stand his approach on 4th downs last year where We would see soft coverage and pressure with 4 and then a five yard catch and run to move the chains on 4th and 4.I acknowledge the fact that we didn’t have much...we had a guy like Delpit go down. But you don’t help a slow and green secondary by making those guys cover an extra couple seconds you have disrupt the QBs timing get him off his spot and force errant throws that way.
Example of some madness:
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
Problem is as tia pointed out Joe did adapt... there were simply limits to how much the man could do.
As for pressure vs. laying back...
Couple weeks ago I read an article that our 2020 D was 10 times more likely to yield points when rushing more than four. It was one of those "advanced stat" thangs.
You can be sure our analytics boys had Joe fully informed of this.
So when your choices are give up points grudgingly by laying back or quickly by blitzing... you choose the former... always... giving your opponent more opportunities to aid your cause in derailing their drive.
-
nicker's thinking that Stefanski was effeminate-looking?
Kinder than DieHard's take on our Chief of Staff...
-
Is it about the Xs and Os? or is it about the Jimmys and Joes? Or both?
Joe expects the pressure to come upfront with his front 4. He’s known as one of the more conservative D coordinators in the league. So as long as he’s here we need a steady rotation of guys upfront that can create pressure. You will not see exotic Joe and his pressure from other spots often.
Case in point...
I couldn’t stand his approach on 4th downs last year where We would see soft coverage and pressure with 4 and then a five yard catch and run to move the chains on 4th and 4.
I acknowledge the fact that we didn’t have much...we had a guy like Delpit go down. But you don’t help a slow and green secondary by making those guys cover an extra couple seconds you have disrupt the QBs timing get him off his spot and force errant throws that way.
Example of some madness:
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
Routes tend to dictate where the DB ends when we pattern match. So for example when we moved to more c4 and c6 looks middle of the year - if karl is over a #2 or #3 and those routes carry upfield then guess what? So goes the DB.
And our pressure rates along with yardage and big plays given up when we sent additional bodies rose commensurately. Meaning the more we sent, we were often burned for the decision. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Can't execute high level schemes and calls without the proper athletes.
Didn't that guy beg to get thrown off this board because he was super duper butthurt, got his wish, then begged to be allowed back? That guy?
I mean, between the drunk old guy who spends his days trolling and the fat, Italian, wonderwall playing douche know-it-all... that's just peak masculinity.
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Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
Routes tend to dictate where the DB ends when we pattern match. So for example when we moved to more c4 and c6 looks middle of the year - if karl is over a #2 or #3 and those routes carry upfield then guess what? So goes the DB.
And our pressure rates along with yardage and big plays given up when we sent additional bodies rose commensurately. Meaning the more we sent, we were often burned for the decision. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Can't execute high level schemes and calls without the proper athletes.
Didn't that guy beg to get thrown off this board because he was super duper butthurt, got his wish, then begged to be allowed back? That guy?
I mean, between the drunk old guy who spends his days trolling and the fat, Italian, wonderwall playing douche know-it-all... that's just peak masculinity.
Routes tend to dictate where the DB ends when we pattern match. So for example when we moved to more c4 and c6 looks middle of the year - if karl is over a #2 or #3 and those routes carry upfield then guess what? So goes the DB.
And our pressure rates along with yardage and big plays given up when we sent additional bodies rose commensurately. Meaning the more we sent, we were often burned for the decision. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Can't execute high level schemes and calls without the proper athletes.
I mean, between the drunk old guy who spends his days trolling and the fat, Italian, wonderwall playing douche know-it-all... that's just peak masculinity.
You're the drunk Tia. Not me. And you're a punk.
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nicker's thinking that Stefanski was effeminate-looking?
Kinder than DieHard's take on our Chief of Staff...
-
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
He has an opportunity this year.
Routes tend to dictate where the DB ends when we pattern match. So for example when we moved to more c4 and c6 looks middle of the year - if karl is over a #2 or #3 and those routes carry upfield then guess what? So goes the DB.
And our pressure rates along with yardage and big plays given up when we sent additional bodies rose commensurately. Meaning the more we sent, we were often burned for the decision. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Can't execute high level schemes and calls without the proper athletes.
Didn't that guy beg to get thrown off this board because he was super duper butthurt, got his wish, then begged to be allowed back? That guy?
I mean, between the drunk old guy who spends his days trolling and the fat, Italian, wonderwall playing douche know-it-all... that's just peak masculinity.
I mean, between the drunk old guy who spends his days trolling and the fat, Italian, wonderwall playing douche know-it-all... that's just peak masculinity.
1. No amount of drinking will erase the memory of what that guy did willingly in his Navy years. His "poop deck" was always open for business, I'm guessing.
2. Please do not refer to that pile of shit as Italian. We want nothing to do with him either.
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Zombo said:
Who is the fat Italian guy?
Certainly not me, I am the Dad bod (ok, grand dad bod)Irish American guy.
Z
The guy with the creepy "I'm peaking over my guitar hey kid want some candy its in my van" profile pic.
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Zombo said:
Look, we knew our back seven was awful, especially after the injuries, that is not the first year DC's fault.
And Myles being a non-factor after he got Covid was another huge loss.
Yet, somehow, we won 12 games, had key stops in big games, had timely turnovers and got the ball back in our offense's hands at money time. And we ranked in the middle of pack ... we have seen a LOT of worse defenses in the past 20 years.
The scheme wasn't the problem, we just needed another year to stock more TALENT on that side of the ball. That has been done.
We had Sendejo at Safety, Robert Jackson forced to start at corner
This sums up my view also.
The offense was prioritized in offseason #1. Woods had to make do with what he had. We all knew that safety & LB'er was going to be Achilles heels. And add Myles' illness and subsequent lingering affects of COVID....boy, Woods was pretty much screwed. We went into the season knowing that the offense was going to have to outscore the opponents in shootouts. Woods didn't show me that he shouldn't be allowed to get a shot with some actual good players. I mean, he wasn't playing D with 10 guys and a goalie or anything.
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Is it about the Xs and Os? or is it about the Jimmys and Joes? Or both?
Joe expects the pressure to come upfront with his front 4. He’s known as one of the more conservative D coordinators in the league. So as long as he’s here we need a steady rotation of guys upfront that can create pressure. You will not see exotic Joe and his pressure from other spots often.
Case in point...
I couldn’t stand his approach on 4th downs last year where We would see soft coverage and pressure with 4 and then a five yard catch and run to move the chains on 4th and 4.I acknowledge the fact that we didn’t have much...we had a guy like Delpit go down. But you don’t help a slow and green secondary by making those guys cover an extra couple seconds you have disrupt the QBs timing get him off his spot and force errant throws that way.
Example of some madness:
Joe would rather drop a guy like Karl Joseph back in coverage and that’s not his thing he’s a good box safety. I feel like joe didn’t adapt well.
Problem is as tia pointed out Joe did adapt... there were simply limits to how much the man could do.
As for pressure vs. laying back...
Couple weeks ago I read an article that our 2020 D was 10 times more likely to yield points when rushing more than four. It was one of those "advanced stat" thangs.
You can be sure our analytics boys had Joe fully informed of this.
So when your choices are give up points grudgingly by laying back or quickly by blitzing... you choose the former... always... giving your opponent more opportunities to aid your cause in derailing their drive.
Problem is as tia pointed out Joe did adapt... there were simply limits to how much the man could do.
As for pressure vs. laying back...
Couple weeks ago I read an article that our 2020 D was 10 times more likely to yield points when rushing more than four. It was one of those "advanced stat" thangs.
You can be sure our analytics boys had Joe fully informed of this.
So when your choices are give up points grudgingly by laying back or quickly by blitzing... you choose the former... always... giving your opponent more opportunities to aid your cause in derailing their drive.
I don’t think Joe gets too creative with his pressures. Sending Sendejo telegraphed off the edge isn’t getting cute. He does rely on front 4 winning battles upfront. Great if that happens most sane coordinators would do just that if it could work consistently...when it doesn’t the adjustment has to be made. That wasn’t the case last year.We had too many WTF moments last year on that side of the ball.
The Raider game. That was like watching an overmatched HS football team. Were the Raiders really that much stronger and faster than the Browns. I believe we stayed in a base defense when no one could throw. The second half brought back 1999-2000 memories.
The Jax game. We gave Mike Glennon another opportunity this coming season. We didn’t dial up any pressure. I recall the analyst calling us out that game for our lack of game plan on that side. I remember that game fondly I taught my 1 year old how to scream at a TV- not too proud about it.
Baltimore- please Joe just throw away anything you thought about how to defend Lamar. We started a thread in here we actually had great ideas and good principles in mind.
The old game threads kind of tell the story.
He deserves another shot. I think we are forgetting a tad that While Joe wasn’t set-up last year he didn’t seem to have too many answers either.
I feel better though I could point to a dozen things in any given season but I think last year I had boiled down to Mack Wilson, our kicking game, Joe Woods, occasionally our Charmin soft secondary injury reports. Only four things in an overall great year
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This defense scares the shit out of me. I know this isn't true, but it seemed like whenever we needed a stop at the end of game, we couldn't get and our OFFENSE had to save the day. Either with points or with simply exterminating the clock. Our defense is basically brand new, and while I'm excited, I'm certainly nervous.
What will Clowney give us? JOK? Delpit? What about our interior DL? I'm not a fan of cutting Richardson, but I guess you can't pay everyone. It's time for Woods to earn that money. If our defense balls out... We're going to be a legit nightmare. Like, we could have some convincing wins for real.
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Problem is as tia pointed out Joe did adapt... there were simply limits to how much the man could do.
As for pressure vs. laying back...
Couple weeks ago I read an article that our 2020 D was 10 times more likely to yield points when rushing more than four. It was one of those "advanced stat" thangs.
You can be sure our analytics boys had Joe fully informed of this.
So when your choices are give up points grudgingly by laying back or quickly by blitzing... you choose the former... always... giving your opponent more opportunities to aid your cause in derailing their drive.
I don’t think Joe gets too creative with his pressures. Sending Sendejo telegraphed off the edge isn’t getting cute. He does rely on front 4 winning battles upfront. Great if that happens most sane coordinators would do just that if it could work consistently...when it doesn’t the adjustment has to be made. That wasn’t the case last year.We had too many WTF moments last year on that side of the ball.
The Raider game. That was like watching an overmatched HS football team. Were the Raiders really that much stronger and faster than the Browns. I believe we stayed in a base defense when no one could throw. The second half brought back 1999-2000 memories.
The Jax game. We gave Mike Glennon another opportunity this coming season. We didn’t dial up any pressure. I recall the analyst calling us out that game for our lack of game plan on that side. I remember that game fondly I taught my 1 year old how to scream at a TV- not too proud about it.
Baltimore- please Joe just throw away anything you thought about how to defend Lamar. We started a thread in here we actually had great ideas and good principles in mind.
The old game threads kind of tell the story.
He deserves another shot. I think we are forgetting a tad that While Joe wasn’t set-up last year he didn’t seem to have too many answers either.
I feel better though I could point to a dozen things in any given season but I think last year I had boiled down to Mack Wilson, our kicking game, Joe Woods, occasionally our Charmin soft secondary injury reports. Only four things in an overall great year
The Raider game. That was like watching an overmatched HS football team. Were the Raiders really that much stronger and faster than the Browns. I believe we stayed in a base defense when no one could throw.
We knew going into 2020 that we were going to have to outscore opponents... and we did in 11 of 16 outings.
The Vegas game was one of the 5 when we did not. Want to lay it all on our D? Fine, but our vaunted O laid an egg that game as well... especially on the ground where our Chubb-less attack amassed all of 101 rushing yards on 22 carries and possessed the ball for 22:17. Our D was beyond gassed in the 4th when it yielded the game's only TD. It did not help when mid-way thru Q1 Bryant put the ball on the ground to end a developing drive in Raider territory.
As for staying in our base D... What was the alternative? Coming out in a Goal-line?
As it was Harrison was our leading tackler, so it seems he spent a good amount of time in the box. MG had two pressures while Vernon had 2 sacks. So while the game-plan may have been lacking, the execution was as well... which brings us back to the 2020 personnel.
And agreement that 2021 will tell the true story.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196
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