Camp Battles / Browns Training Camp 2021

[Orion]

@gumby73 said:

RB/ST/WR6...Like Hilliard..

Yeah.  But Hilliard had 13 pounds on him.  And D'E is almost 20 lbs heavier than Felton.  I think if I were on D and I saw D'E come in the game I would watch for the run more than if Felton entered the game.  For Felton I'd be watching for the pass or gadgetry involving him.  Hopefully our OL will be talented enough to make any RB be able to get yards.  Like the old Denver OL's where they'd lose their starting RB for the season and just go ahead and make an all star out of his backup.

[Comeonman]

@calfoxwc said:

I don't know how to figure out my favorite training camp battle.

But I'm intrigued with Higgins vs Peoples-Jones at third wr.

It's too early for Schwartz  to win 3rd wr, although, I"m not sure it's a matter of "third".

Note: Schwartz's number is ten. Schwartz's number... is ten. Watch how Schwartz eventually?

brings those kind of plays to the Browns offense.

The battle between D'Ernest and Felton is interesting bigtime, but I think the Browns keep both.

The Browns' staff will go through hell cutting the roster to 53.

How can Bradley, Willies, Hollins and Switzer all make the roster? Nope, I think.

as much as I supported Higgins, he might be the odd man out - Hodge and Peoples-Jones make that possible.

We never get to see HIggins much - I don't know why. But I think he could be traded.

I might be completely out of my mind, but in no way, shape or form could I see Hodge beating out Hollywood. Air guitar or no air guitar. DPJ…I could see that, maybe. 

[gumby73]

^^ Here's a nice 3 way camp battle just waiting to happen ^^ Hodge & DPJ scores very well on Special Teams.. and Higgins has learned how to block 

@orion said:

Yeah.  But Hilliard had 13 pounds on him.  And D'E is almost 20 lbs heavier than Felton.  I think if I were on D and I saw D'E come in the game I would watch for the run more than if Felton entered the game.  For Felton I'd be watching for the pass or gadgetry involving him.  Hopefully our OL will be talented enough to make any RB be able to get yards.  Like the old Denver OL's where they'd lose their starting RB for the season and just go ahead and make an all star out of his backup.

All good points! Ya nailed Denver's old rushing attack.. adding OL coach Mike Munchak won't hurt..

Every team needs a good back-up Hammer & Nail running back.. We all remember Kevin Mack as the Hammer & Ernest Byner as the nail..Crowell was once our vision-less Hammer..And than came along old Duke Johnson into the league.. Young Duke got so hammered going in-between the tackles, he soon forgot his last name was Johnson .. It seemed like Hue wanted to protect Duke making him a role of a 3rd down back? I can see us with a Chubb hammer & 2 nails in Hunt & D'E & a Jano FB ..I was never sure where Felton was going to fit, soon after we drafted Schwartz? ? (a say all this to say" Let's use Felton a nail not a Hammer) We also now have a better interior OL than Crow & Duke were running into..Picture Chubb with Cam Erving's butt, 2 yards in his backfield  ?‍️ 

Just as Woods lost Delpit early..Stef lost his gadget guy Natson.. And maybe a half/whole play call sheet of gadget-ness, he never had a chance to call with the right personal.. Schwartz/Natson/Felton should fill those gadget play sheet calls.

 imho..The true fact is.. Stef see's a TE & WR group that can now seal block edges & down field.. Stef can now design mismatch formations, from Backfield to LOS.. Two of Schwartz/Natson or Felton should have 8-10 yards of clean grass in front of them if they can only a.) get open & than b.) catch the football.. 

in ending..I really don't see Stef dictating to his opponents a 3rd down group plan of attack.. Like Sean McVay to Sean Payton..

    Gadget plays can be called on any down, with mixing up your right player personal through out a game

[SdBacker80]

@calfoxwc said:

I don't know how to figure out my favorite training camp battle.

But I'm intrigued with Higgins vs Peoples-Jones at third wr.

It's too early for Schwartz  to win 3rd wr, although, I"m not sure it's a matter of "third".

Note: Schwartz's number is ten. Schwartz's number... is ten. Watch how Schwartz eventually?

brings those kind of plays to the Browns offense.

The battle between D'Ernest and Felton is interesting bigtime, but I think the Browns keep both.

The Browns' staff will go through hell cutting the roster to 53.

How can Bradley, Willies, Hollins and Switzer all make the roster? Nope, I think.

as much as I supported Higgins, he might be the odd man out - Hodge and Peoples-Jones make that possible.

We never get to see HIggins much - I don't know why. But I think he could be traded.

https://www.brownsnation.com/pff-names-rashard-higgins-as-browns-most-underrated-player/

The Baker/Higgins connection is undeniable I don’t think we’ve seen enough of Hodge to put any kind of lofty expectation on him 

Also regarding Carlson, he’s a 4th TE, he’s capable when called upon and he knows the system 3rd season with the Browns.  He’s a keeper. 

[calfoxwc]

crap. quoted twice before I could fix it to change it to "Tyreek Hill's number is ten". lol

and Carlson - you don't cut a guy who can do this stuff for his team: (pass interference...?)

[Orion]

@calfoxwc said:

and Carlson -

I have not been very high on him.....but that was one hell-of-a TD he manufactured there.

--------------------------------------------------

Now, what do ya do with THIS group?  (somehow, Derrick Willies just doesn't go away.......I can't help but to root for him......even though there's no room for him)

Odell Beckham Jr.  -  13    WR    5-11    198    28    8    LSU

Ja'Marcus Bradley  -  84    WR    6-0    198    24    1    Louisiana-Lafayette

Rashard Higgins  -  82    WR    6-1    198    26    6    Colorado State

KhaDarel Hodge  -  12    WR    6-2    205    26    4    Prairie View A&M

Alexander Hollins  -  83    WR    6-0    166    24    1    Eastern Illinois

Jarvis Landry  -  80    WR    5-11    196    28    8    LSU

JoJo Natson  -  19    WR    5-7    153    27    5    Akron

Donovan Peoples-Jones  -  11    WR    6-2    212    22    2    Michigan

Anthony Schwartz  -  10    WR    6-0    185    20    R    Auburn

Ryan Switzer  -  15    WR    5-9    183    26    4    North Carolina

Derrick Willies  -  16    WR    6-4    207    26    2    Texas Tech

[gumby73]

@orion said:

  (somehow, Derrick Willies just doesn't go away.......I can't help but to root for him......even though there's no room for him)

I'm drinking Crown & now laughing my as$ off...

1) SDBacker80- Likes DPJ to breakout (like)

2) Orion- Can't help but root for Derrick 'free' Willies (like)

3) Gumby's (tipsy) dumbass is still hoping somehow Porter Gustin has enough motor just to make the team ?... the guy has a heart of gold similar to another like of mine Jamie Meder "Pierogi Prince of Parma."     Gus'to

This thread is getting better than I thought ?

[Dutch Oven]

Zombo said:

If it wasn't for Jamie Meder we would have had back-to-back 0-16 Seasons, but he got his big paw on a SD FG, preserving an unlikely victory.

Our only one in two long years ?

He apparently was ignoring The Process. 

[gumby73]

Zombo said:

If it wasn't for Jamie Meder we would have had back-to-back 0-16 Seasons, but he got his big paw on a SD FG, preserving an unlikely victory.

Any better way to start a Good Morning Sunday? 

Tell'em about the man from up the road in Ashland, Ohio Soloman Wilcox!

 

     LoL...Would ya believe youtube has blocked* it's only decent video from being posted? ???

Merry Christmas Cleveland 2016 !  ?

[Tour2ma]

@calfoxwc said:

Carlson - you don't cut a guy who can do this stuff for his team: (pass interference...?)

On the other hand when you have to go back to 2019 to find a highlight...

PI? Not seeing it as Carlson reached back over the DB for the catch... contact was early, but Carlson "initiated" it by reversing course.

[Unsympathetic]

@dutch-oven said:

He apparently was ignoring The Process. 

Let's come up with a different phrase for Cleveland's rebuild.. Philly's process was [is] only good enough to get to a conference semifinals, and we have bigger goals than that!

[gumby73]

@gumby73 said:

6/29 edit-- Bold cut down thoughts.. https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-players-who-could-be-cut

1)Mack Wilson

2.Porter Gustin

3.De'Ernest Johnson

4. JoJo Natson

@tour2ma said:

Browns Roster: 5 veterans who could be pushed off roster by 2021 draft picks

5. Mack Wilson - article says he became a "fan favorite"... ... otherwise it's a good read.

4. Hodge - return an OBJ, draft a Schwartz... doesn't leave much room.

3. Redwine - Safety room got crowded fast as well...

2. D'Ernest - with 90+% of the work going to two guys and a draft pick backing them up, the writing is on the proverbial wall.

1. Malcolm Smith - only real surprise name, but when JOK develops he becomes expendable... nice mid-season trade candidate for draft pick.

Additional Battle Edits-- https://factoryofsadness.co/2021/05/04/cleveland-browns-roster-battles-2021/

7-14..https://clutchpoints.com/3-cut-candidates-on-the-browns-roster-bubble-entering-2021-training-camp/  ?

7-16 solid Dan Labbe read.. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/the-browns-postion-battles-im-watching-when-training-camp-kicks-off-dan-labbe.html

7-15 Ellis Williams... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/what-position-battles-am-i-most-looking-forward-to-at-browns-training-camp-there-are-a-lot-ellis-l-williams.html

 7-20 MKC   https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/cleveland-browns-2021-training-camp-5-pressing-questions.html

Final 7-27-- https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Five-Cleveland-Browns-Training-Camp-Position-Battles-to-Watch-168329302/

Back at it...^^Updated Compiled Media whack hit list ^^^^

@gumby73 said:

• 
•  Scott Petrak 
•  
• June 3, 2021

QB: Baker Mayfield, Case Keenum  Were Good!

RB: #Three or Keep 4? Demetric Felton or De'Ernest Johnson? Could Felton outdo Schwartz or Hodges in ST/WR?

FB: Andy Janovich Knowing Stef? He'll keep 1 active?

WR: Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, KhaDarel Hodge, Rashard Higgins, Donovan Peoples-Jones, Anthony Schwartz Solid! If injuries let us

TE:  #4 Stephen Carlson... Could Jordan Franks or Connor Davis steal this spot? Keeping 4's a good Stef number..I'm liking 2021 Njoku

OL: Jedrick Wills Jr., Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Wyatt Teller, Jack Conklin, Chris Hubbard, James Hudson, Nick Harris I'M trusting Callahan on this lineup..I will add this..Berry liked Greg Senat well enough to get him back from Dallas.I'm just hoping Hubbard can be ready off injury to get a good/honest Camp decision.. Forbes/Hance or Dunn will be a good Pre-Season game watch...

DE: Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Takkarist McKinley, Curtis Weaver*  Leaving Porter Gustin vs Joe Jackson as a good Camp watch ?

DT: Malik Jackson, Andrew Billings, Jordan Elliott, Malik McDowell,* Tommy Togiail... Good Grief Charlie Berry! It takes 4 new names to replace 1? Hello to Shelton Day/Damion 'hip2b' Square and Marvin Wilson..I'm still thinking McDowell get's a crack at a DE position?

LB: Anthony Walker, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Jacob Phillips, Sione Takitaki, Malcolm Smith, Tony Fields II Imo..Malcolm Smith is going nowhere but Cleveland. He might still cover better than Walker? With all the bad press Mack Wilson has gotten all off-season? Playing balls out & hair on fire ?at Camp is my Expectations... 

CB: Denzel Ward, Greg Newsome II, Greedy Williams, Troy Hill, A.J. Green, M.J. Stewart Jr. I think Tia started this thread off well.. There's no bigger Camp Battle than deciding on your teams #2CB.. I'll just need someone else to surpass seeing Robert Jackson on the field, deep into depth chart.. 

S: John Johnson III, Grant Delpit, Ronnie Harrison Jr., Sheldrick Redwine, Elijah Benton* I'll go with..I think Redwine has a roster battle for his orange helmet life? LeCounte was drafted.. And Moffatt was also said to have a good camp last season 

K: Cody Parkey.. Oh! we shall bet on having Camp legs

P: Jamie Gillan Becomes a R*FA in 2022...He'll be the guy with gunz ? wearing a browns floppy hat until his 45 minutes of fame at each camp day..What a life boys & girls..Put your video games down & Go learn how to long snap or Punt.. ?

LS: Charley Hughlett-- Old Chuck, was once the highest paid NfL Long Snapper..Not anymore! Old Charley will turn age 33 at the same time he becomes a UFA in 2023.. Liv'in Large at 1.1M$

more camp battles than originally thought.. 

Toy Gun to my head ... and If I had to choose 3 on the Bubble now? I'm pulling my early trigger on? ?

1. Mack Wilson

2. JoJo Natson (we drafted 2 possible gadgets.. yes neither have caught a punt..yet?

3.Shelton Redwine  I'm not going to lie ? (I'm trying to open a roster spot to keep De'Ernest Johnson & or Porter Gustin) Knowing .. It's against Woods heavy safety plan..

OK! whom wants to talk me out of whom?  

[Tour2ma]

@unsympathetic said:

Let's come up with a different phrase for Cleveland's rebuild.. Philly's process was [is] only good enough to get to a conference semifinals, and we have bigger goals than that!

Just Dutch trying to bait me (again) by displaying his lack of understanding of what we were doing in the Sashi era...

[Dutch Oven]

@tour2ma said:

Just Dutch trying to bait me (again) by displaying his lack of understanding of what we were doing in the Sashi era...

Actually I like saying that because DBone always gets a kick out of it.

The fact that your love of Sashi gets you all butthurt is just the cherry on top ?

And no one misunderstood what was going on during the Sashi era. They were tanking. Sashi was just too shitty to take advantage of the tank. 

[nickers]

The tight ends are an interesting group... It's gonna be interesting to see how these kids shake out for the 21 roster...

[MLD Woody]

DPJ v Higgins

Though really we're taking about two different types of WRs that each will play behind Juice and OBJ based on the need (with DPJ beating out Hodges). And with DPJ having more top end potential.

[MLD Woody]

The Scottish Hammer vs The Kármán Line

[Ibleedbrown]

I’ll throw a couple oddball position battles out there that might not even be real, but l think they might be, which means they’re probably not.

The Blitzing Cornerback: l’m pretty sure Woods likes to have a defender at every position who is particularly good at rushing the passer. Last year this was the role of MJ Stewart, a guy who’s ok at doing the usual cornerback stuff but a step above most cornerbacks in rushing the passer, and l’m pretty sure he made the team because of his blitzing prowess. So l’m curious who will be competing with him for this position that l just now made up.

Fullback or H back: I’m not really sold that Stefanski truly needs a fullback or if he just needs a guy who does what a fullback does well. I feel like there were a couple games where Janivich was unavailable, and they tried to replicate his role with a tight end. I also recall a few plays where using the fullback as a lead blocker gummed up the works more than it helped. All l’m getting at is if Stef could find a guy with a little more positional flexibility who also did what a fullback does well, he would go with that guy over a traditional fullback. I’m not sure that guy is currently on the roster, but l suspect they’re working towards developing that guy.

[gumby73]

@nickers said:

The tight ends are an interesting group... It's gonna be interesting to see how these kids shake out for the 21 roster...

I never saw this as that close... Hooper vs. Njoku in 2020

Per Pro Football Focus (PFF), Hooper played 784 snaps in 2020. He lined up 78.5% inline and 20.4% in the slot/wide. Njoku played far fewer snaps at 461, with 77.4% lined up inline and 22.3% in the slot/wide. Very similar to Hooper’s splits. Also similar are the run/pass snap splits. Hooper’s snaps were 45% run and 55% pass. Njoku’s snaps were 46% run and 54% pass. So if you look at these percentages, the two tight ends were utilized almost identically.

What’s interesting are the PFF grades for each player. Hooper’s overall offense grade was 69.8 and Njoku’s was 70.1. Hooper’s receiving grade of 72.0 was noticeably higher than Njoku’s 67.6, but the blocking grades caught our eye. Njoku’s run block grade was 63.6, while Hooper’s was lower at 58.9. Also, Njoku’s 77.4 pass block grade was significantly higher than Hooper’s 63.2.

When you take out the disparity in overall snap count (Hooper did play 323 more snaps than Njoku), the splits and percentages are very similar between the two tight ends. So while Hooper’s receiving appears to be ahead of Njoku’s, the PFF stats show that Njoku is actually the better blocker. We bet if you asked the casual Browns fan who the Browns best blocking tight end was, they would tell you Hooper, no question. But actually, Hooper was the Browns third-best blocking tight end behind Njoku and rookie Harrison Bryant.

So that’s why, after looking into the numbers, it’s not so clear-cut that Hooper is far and away the best tight end on the Browns. His contract says he is, but his splits and utilization show that the Browns use their tight ends in a specific way, and they have two players who can get the job done. And, actually, it appears that Njoku is ahead of Hooper when it comes to both run and pass blocking.

full read... https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/7/12/22571108/training-camp-storylines-to-watch-austin-hooper-vs-david-njoku-who-will-win-te1 

As a former TE..I got to give TE coach Drew Petzing a lot of credit here, to get David Njoku to finally accept NFL TE coaching.. Njoku was age 20 when drafted ?.. David just turned 25, this July 10th.. Something seems to have finally clicked..Could be Hooper's help as well?

 Just don't throw it to his waste line or below...Chest or above..    

[Dutch Oven]

Hooper was pretty 'meh' last season. Not bad, mind you, just not someone that made you feel warm and fuzzy over the big contract they gave him. 

Looking forward to seeing how Bryant looks this season, after a full NFL offseason. Kid started off decently, then hit the proverbial wall at 100mph.

I've gotten burned on Njoku before, thinking he was on the cusp of becoming the guy the Browns used a first rounder on. We'll see.