Hue Jackson clarifies comments he was paid to lose with Cleveland Browns
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I really do disagree completely with this assertion -- the question isn't a general definition of humanity/kindness because that's [intentionally?] amorphous. NFL free agency has a long and litigious history -- and now it's just accepted as The Norm when for many decades it absolutely wasn't.
Perhaps it's news to you that for some, a sincere evaluation of them based purely on their talent outside of any preconceived notions about that person simply doesn't happen without a lawsuit.. Flores' job was to win football games, not date Ross's daughter. And he is actually substantially more skilled at winning than Ross expected him to be.
So I'm not trying to be insulting here, but you grossly misinterpreted my statement.
A court ruling isn't going to magically make people accepting of race, religion, etc. That comes from within an individual.
If someone takes me to court over my hatred of the Ratbirds & Steelers, I'm not going to magically turn and embrace them.....it's part of who I am, I just could never get on board with it.
I understand the cause- minority candidates are tired of being passed over. When Flores was fired I was shocked. I suppose this lawsuit could perhaps lead to some type of Affirmative Action situation where a judge rules an ___% of NFL Head Coaches must be minorities.....is that what we want?
So I'm not trying to be insulting here, but you grossly misinterpreted my statement.
A court ruling isn't going to magically make people accepting of race, religion, etc. That comes from within an individual.
If someone takes me to court over my hatred of the Ratbirds & Steelers, I'm not going to magically turn and embrace them.....it's part of who I am, I just could never get on board with it.
I understand the cause- minority candidates are tired of being passed over. When Flores was fired I was shocked. I suppose this lawsuit could perhaps lead to some type of Affirmative Action situation where a judge rules an ___% of NFL Head Coaches must be minorities.....is that what we want?
No we want the most qualified person available for said position without skin color being a factor one way or the other...
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Culley's treatment is actually a part of this lawsuit as well -- Texans fired Culley after Culley had the temerity to get 4 wins this season starting a 4th rounder at QB and a roster of UDFA's and Money Mitch.. Because they wanted to replace him with Josh McCown.. he with no coaching experience at any level and many actual qualified coaches available. But hey, he's white!
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I wonder how much Hue was paid to lose in Oakland?
When he went 8-8 in his one season as head coach?
When he went 8-8 in his one season as head coach?
I guess it depends if Davis paid him to lose?
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I really do disagree completely with this assertion -- the question isn't a general definition of humanity/kindness because that's [intentionally?] amorphous. NFL free agency has a long and litigious history -- and now it's just accepted as The Norm when for many decades it absolutely wasn't.
Perhaps it's news to you that for some, a sincere evaluation of them based purely on their talent outside of any preconceived notions about that person simply doesn't happen without a lawsuit.. Flores' job was to win football games, not date Ross's daughter. And he is actually substantially more skilled at winning than Ross expected him to be.
So I'm not trying to be insulting here, but you grossly misinterpreted my statement.
A court ruling isn't going to magically make people accepting of race, religion, etc. That comes from within an individual.
If someone takes me to court over my hatred of the Ratbirds & Steelers, I'm not going to magically turn and embrace them.....it's part of who I am, I just could never get on board with it.
I understand the cause- minority candidates are tired of being passed over. When Flores was fired I was shocked. I suppose this lawsuit could perhaps lead to some type of Affirmative Action situation where a judge rules an ___% of NFL Head Coaches must be minorities.....is that what we want?
So I'm not trying to be insulting here, but you grossly misinterpreted my statement.
A court ruling isn't going to magically make people accepting of race, religion, etc. That comes from within an individual.
If someone takes me to court over my hatred of the Ratbirds & Steelers, I'm not going to magically turn and embrace them.....it's part of who I am, I just could never get on board with it.
I understand the cause- minority candidates are tired of being passed over. When Flores was fired I was shocked. I suppose this lawsuit could perhaps lead to some type of Affirmative Action situation where a judge rules an ___% of NFL Head Coaches must be minorities.....is that what we want?
You'd be helped by reading the lawsuit -- your "statement" is addressed on the cover page before the claims are enumerated.
Morals cannot be legislated -- but behavior can be regulated.
I'm not trying to be insulting here, but it sure reads to me like you came to this thread with the intent to spread factual inaccuracies about the lawsuit.
This case is not about morality -- YOU are attempting to shift the discussion by inventing a completely fake version of both Flores' claim and his proposed remedy.. which is of course the classic dodge of someone who knows they're guilty but doesn't want to admit it.
Flores has facts, and has listed them as his claims. If the jury buys his logic, he wins and the NFL loses. And.. those claims are pretty numerous and well-sourced, and the NFL knows it. This entire thing will actually boil down to collection of yes-or-no questions: Was this law violated, yes or no? And repeat for each law. Plenty of case history to go by to determine if the laws have been violated -- this isn't random.
If you either understood "the cause" or had read the actual lawsuit you would know that the list that is proposed to address the grievances is actually quite well thought-out and complete. Listed at the end. You may not agree with all, but it's definitely not "Just Affirmative Action" .. because just like Flores did when he coached, he thought this through much more than random white guys trying to insult him did.
As well, the laws cited that he's asserting have been violated are :
Section 1981 of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 (“Section 1981”), the New Jersey Law Against Discrimination, (“NJLAD”), the New York State Human Rights Law, N.Y. Exec. Law §§ 290 et seq. (“NYSHRL”) and the New York City Human Rights Law, N.Y.C. Admin. Code §§ 8-101 et seq. (“NYCHRL”).
The proposed list of redress of grievances :
1] Increase the influence of Black individuals in hiring and termination decisions for General Manager, Head Coach and Offensive and Defensive Coordinator positions;
a. Ensure diversity of ownership by creating and funding a committee dedicated to sourcing Black investors to take majority ownership stakes in NFL Teams;
b. Ensure diversity of decision-making by permitting select Black players and coaches to participate in the interviewing process for General Manager, Head Coach and Offensive and Defensive Coordinator positions;
2] Increase the objectivity of hiring and termination decisions for General Manager, Head Coach and Offensive and Defensive Coordinator positions;
a. Require NFL Teams to reduce to writing the rationale for hiring and termination decisions, including a full explanation of the basis for any subjective influences (e.g., trust, personality, interview performance, etc.);
b. Require NFL Teams to consider side-by-side comparisons of objective criteria, such as past performance, experience and objective qualifications;
3] Increase the number of Black Offensive and Defensive Coordinators;
a. Create and fund a training program for lower-level Black coaches who demonstrate an aptitude for coaching and an interest in advancing to a Coordinator position;
4] Incentivize the hiring and retention of Black General Managers, Head Coaches and Offensive and Defensive Coordinators through monetary, draft and/or other compensation such as additional salary cap space; and
5] Complete transparency with respect to pay for all General Managers, Head Coaches and Offensive and Defensive Coordinators."When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
I listened to Hue on Sportscenter this morning (from his interview last night). I think the reality of the situation is not that there was implicit bonuses tied with losing games intentionally.
More closely, the reality of the situation is Sashi Brown and his crew came in and loudly, proudly, and without remorse set the team up for tank mode. Hue was surprised (his words) at this and was perhaps understandably taken aback at this obvious plan to suck for draft capital. I can completely understand Hue being disgruntled about that in general, and feel like he was the 'fall guy' for a team that was NEVER going to win more than 3-4 games.
This also brings up a fair conversation piece on if black coaches are more significantly set up for failure like the Browns were in 2016-2017. Culley, for example, this season was in a very similar boat and IMO exceeded reasonable expectations. It's definitely a very important conversation and may have merit in the lawsuit.
With all that being said, that is much different than Haslam directly giving bonuses for throwing football games. Obviously, if there's proof of that let's burn it to the ground.
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I listened to Hue on Sportscenter this morning (from his interview last night). I think the reality of the situation is not that there was implicit bonuses tied with losing games intentionally.
More closely, the reality of the situation is Sashi Brown and his crew came in and loudly, proudly, and without remorse set the team up for tank mode. Hue was surprised (his words) at this and was perhaps understandably taken aback at this obvious plan to suck for draft capital. I can completely understand Hue being disgruntled about that in general, and feel like he was the 'fall guy' for a team that was NEVER going to win more than 3-4 games.
This also brings up a fair conversation piece on if black coaches are more significantly set up for failure like the Browns were in 2016-2017. Culley, for example, this season was in a very similar boat and IMO exceeded reasonable expectations. It's definitely a very important conversation and may have merit in the lawsuit.
With all that being said, that is much different than Haslam directly giving bonuses for throwing football games. Obviously, if there's proof of that let's burn it to the ground.
I listened to Hue on Sportscenter this morning (from his interview last night). I think the reality of the situation is not that there was implicit bonuses tied with losing games intentionally.
More closely, the reality of the situation is Sashi Brown and his crew came in and loudly, proudly, and without remorse set the team up for tank mode. Hue was surprised (his words) at this and was perhaps understandably taken aback at this obvious plan to suck for draft capital. I can completely understand Hue being disgruntled about that in general, and feel like he was the 'fall guy' for a team that was NEVER going to win more than 3-4 games.
This also brings up a fair conversation piece on if black coaches are more significantly set up for failure like the Browns were in 2016-2017. Culley, for example, this season was in a very similar boat and IMO exceeded reasonable expectations. It's definitely a very important conversation and may have merit in the lawsuit.
With all that being said, that is much different than Haslam directly giving bonuses for throwing football games. Obviously, if there's proof of that let's burn it to the ground.
The only flaw I find in Hue’s statement that he was set up for failure, is the fact that Gregg Williams took over Hue’s team and went 5-3.
Either Williams didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to tank, or he didn’t need Haslam’s money.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
I listened to Hue on Sportscenter this morning (from his interview last night). I think the reality of the situation is not that there was implicit bonuses tied with losing games intentionally.
More closely, the reality of the situation is Sashi Brown and his crew came in and loudly, proudly, and without remorse set the team up for tank mode. Hue was surprised (his words) at this and was perhaps understandably taken aback at this obvious plan to suck for draft capital. I can completely understand Hue being disgruntled about that in general, and feel like he was the 'fall guy' for a team that was NEVER going to win more than 3-4 games.
This also brings up a fair conversation piece on if black coaches are more significantly set up for failure like the Browns were in 2016-2017. Culley, for example, this season was in a very similar boat and IMO exceeded reasonable expectations. It's definitely a very important conversation and may have merit in the lawsuit.
With all that being said, that is much different than Haslam directly giving bonuses for throwing football games. Obviously, if there's proof of that let's burn it to the ground.
The only flaw I find in Hue’s statement that he was set up for failure, is the fact that Gregg Williams took over Hue’s team and went 5-3.
Either Williams didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to tank, or he didn’t need Haslam’s money.
The only flaw I find in Hue’s statement that he was set up for failure, is the fact that Gregg Williams took over Hue’s team and went 5-3.
Either Williams didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to tank, or he didn’t need Haslam’s money.
Or maybe Williams can coach well and intelligently. That is why I find it hard to believe that you had to pay hue to lose. just let him coach
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The only flaw I find in Hue’s statement that he was set up for failure, is the fact that Gregg Williams took over Hue’s team and went 5-3.
Either Williams didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to tank, or he didn’t need Haslam’s money.
Or maybe Williams can coach well and intelligently. That is why I find it hard to believe that you had to pay hue to lose. just let him coach
Or maybe Williams can coach well and intelligently. That is why I find it hard to believe that you had to pay hue to lose. just let him coach
Kind of my point, I just couldn’t put it as eloquently as you.
Also, if Hue was paid (aka bribed to lose) why didn’t he sing to the press about it sooner?
Its not like he was putting another potential head coaching position in jeopardy.
Lets face it…Hue has an axe to grind.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Culley's treatment is actually a part of this lawsuit as well -- Texans fired Culley after Culley had the temerity to get 4 wins this season starting a 4th rounder at QB and a roster of UDFA's and Money Mitch.. Because they wanted to replace him with Josh McCown.. he with no coaching experience at any level and many actual qualified coaches available. But hey, he's white!
Culley's treatment is actually a part of this lawsuit as well -- Texans fired Culley after Culley had the temerity to get 4 wins this season starting a 4th rounder at QB and a roster of UDFA's and Money Mitch.. Because they wanted to replace him with Josh McCown.. he with no coaching experience at any level and many actual qualified coaches available. But hey, he's white!
Oh stfu.
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Or maybe Williams can coach well and intelligently. That is why I find it hard to believe that you had to pay hue to lose. just let him coach
Kind of my point, I just couldn’t put it as eloquently as you.
Also, if Hue was paid (aka bribed to lose) why didn’t he sing to the press about it sooner?
Its not like he was putting another potential head coaching position in jeopardy.
Lets face it…Hue has an axe to grind.
Kind of my point, I just couldn’t put it as eloquently as you.
Also, if Hue was paid (aka bribed to lose) why didn’t he sing to the press about it sooner?
Its not like he was putting another potential head coaching position in jeopardy.
Lets face it…Hue has an axe to grind.
Hes determined to grind it to the nub..
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I listened to Hue on Sportscenter this morning (from his interview last night). I think the reality of the situation is not that there was implicit bonuses tied with losing games intentionally.
More closely, the reality of the situation is Sashi Brown and his crew came in and loudly, proudly, and without remorse set the team up for tank mode. Hue was surprised (his words) at this and was perhaps understandably taken aback at this obvious plan to suck for draft capital. I can completely understand Hue being disgruntled about that in general, and feel like he was the 'fall guy' for a team that was NEVER going to win more than 3-4 games.
This also brings up a fair conversation piece on if black coaches are more significantly set up for failure like the Browns were in 2016-2017. Culley, for example, this season was in a very similar boat and IMO exceeded reasonable expectations. It's definitely a very important conversation and may have merit in the lawsuit.
With all that being said, that is much different than Haslam directly giving bonuses for throwing football games. Obviously, if there's proof of that let's burn it to the ground.
The only flaw I find in Hue’s statement that he was set up for failure, is the fact that Gregg Williams took over Hue’s team and went 5-3.
Either Williams didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to tank, or he didn’t need Haslam’s money.
The only flaw I find in Hue’s statement that he was set up for failure, is the fact that Gregg Williams took over Hue’s team and went 5-3.
Either Williams didn’t get the memo that he was supposed to tank, or he didn’t need Haslam’s money.
To be sure, my comment wasn’t to say I think Hue was a good coach. He absolutely was not and having a rancid roster only made his bad coaching worse. But, he’s not wrong in specifically pointing out how miserable the roster was in 2016 and 2017.
as a small devils advocate, the roster Williams had on the back half of 2018 was magnitudes or order better than two years. I highly doubt Hue goes 5-3 in that stretch, but comparing the 2018 roster to the 2016 roster specifically is marked.
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So I'm not trying to be insulting here, but you grossly misinterpreted my statement.
A court ruling isn't going to magically make people accepting of race, religion, etc. That comes from within an individual.
If someone takes me to court over my hatred of the Ratbirds & Steelers, I'm not going to magically turn and embrace them.....it's part of who I am, I just could never get on board with it.
I understand the cause- minority candidates are tired of being passed over. When Flores was fired I was shocked. I suppose this lawsuit could perhaps lead to some type of Affirmative Action situation where a judge rules an ___% of NFL Head Coaches must be minorities.....is that what we want?
You'd be helped by reading the lawsuit -- your "statement" is addressed on the cover page before the claims are enumerated.
Morals cannot be legislated -- but behavior can be regulated.
I'm not trying to be insulting here, but it sure reads to me like you came to this thread with the intent to spread factual inaccuracies about the lawsuit.
This case is not about morality -- YOU are attempting to shift the discussion by inventing a completely fake version of both Flores' claim and his proposed remedy.. which is of course the classic dodge of someone who knows they're guilty but doesn't want to admit it.
Flores has facts, and has listed them as his claims. If the jury buys his logic, he wins and the NFL loses. And.. those claims are pretty numerous and well-sourced, and the NFL knows it. This entire thing will actually boil down to collection of yes-or-no questions: Was this law violated, yes or no? And repeat for each law. Plenty of case history to go by to determine if the laws have been violated -- this isn't random.
If you either understood "the cause" or had read the actual lawsuit you would know that the list that is proposed to address the grievances is actually quite well thought-out and complete. Listed at the end. You may not agree with all, but it's definitely not "Just Affirmative Action" .. because just like Flores did when he coached, he thought this through much more than random white guys trying to insult him did.
As well, the laws cited that he's asserting have been violated are :
Section 1981 of the Civil Rights Act of 1866 (“Section 1981”), the New Jersey Law Against Discrimination, (“NJLAD”), the New York State Human Rights Law, N.Y. Exec. Law §§ 290 et seq. (“NYSHRL”) and the New York City Human Rights Law, N.Y.C. Admin. Code §§ 8-101 et seq. (“NYCHRL”).
The proposed list of redress of grievances :
1] Increase the influence of Black individuals in hiring and termination decisions for General Manager, Head Coach and Offensive and Defensive Coordinator positions;
a. Ensure diversity of ownership by creating and funding a committee dedicated to sourcing Black investors to take majority ownership stakes in NFL Teams;
b. Ensure diversity of decision-making by permitting select Black players and coaches to participate in the interviewing process for General Manager, Head Coach and Offensive and Defensive Coordinator positions;
2] Increase the objectivity of hiring and termination decisions for General Manager, Head Coach and Offensive and Defensive Coordinator positions;
a. Require NFL Teams to reduce to writing the rationale for hiring and termination decisions, including a full explanation of the basis for any subjective influences (e.g., trust, personality, interview performance, etc.);
b. Require NFL Teams to consider side-by-side comparisons of objective criteria, such as past performance, experience and objective qualifications;
3] Increase the number of Black Offensive and Defensive Coordinators;
a. Create and fund a training program for lower-level Black coaches who demonstrate an aptitude for coaching and an interest in advancing to a Coordinator position;
4] Incentivize the hiring and retention of Black General Managers, Head Coaches and Offensive and Defensive Coordinators through monetary, draft and/or other compensation such as additional salary cap space; and
5] Complete transparency with respect to pay for all General Managers, Head Coaches and Offensive and Defensive Coordinators.I'm not trying to be insulting here, but it sure reads to me like you came to this thread with the intent to spread factual inaccuracies about the lawsuit.
This case is not about morality -- YOU are attempting to shift the discussion by inventing a completely fake version of both Flores' claim and his proposed remedy.. which is of course the classic dodge of someone who knows they're guilty but doesn't want to admit it.
Lol, nope. You make quite the assumption.
I simply made a statement that somehow got you riled up..I stated "you cannot litigate humanity or kindness."
I'm not spreading inaccuracies, I'm making an observation. Have a nice day.
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I'm not trying to be insulting here, but it sure reads to me like you came to this thread with the intent to spread factual inaccuracies about the lawsuit.
This case is not about morality -- YOU are attempting to shift the discussion by inventing a completely fake version of both Flores' claim and his proposed remedy.. which is of course the classic dodge of someone who knows they're guilty but doesn't want to admit it.
Lol, nope. You make quite the assumption.
I simply made a statement that somehow got you riled up..I stated "you cannot litigate humanity or kindness."
I'm not spreading inaccuracies, I'm making an observation. Have a nice day.
I stated "you cannot litigate humanity or kindness."
If you actually believed in not litigating humanity or kindness.. then you'd be either supporting this lawsuit because you were "shocked" or you wouldn't have a position - because the lawsuit from Flores explicitly does not do what you claimed.
But don't let facts stop you when you can entertain yourself and others with fun lies!
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
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I stated "you cannot litigate humanity or kindness."
If you actually believed in not litigating humanity or kindness.. then you'd be either supporting this lawsuit because you were "shocked" or you wouldn't have a position - because the lawsuit from Flores explicitly does not do what you claimed.
But don't let facts stop you when you can entertain yourself and others with fun lies!
If you actually believed in not litigating humanity or kindness.. then you'd be either supporting this lawsuit because you were "shocked" or you wouldn't have a position - because the lawsuit from Flores explicitly does not do what you claimed.
But don't let facts stop you when you can entertain yourself and others with fun lies!
Calm down.. This will play out in court, in due time. Flores has a Mount Everest to climb attempting to prove his claims.... Just "claiming" something doesn't make it so. There's this thing called hard evidence... If you have it, then great- show it to the judges. He said, she said- will get you nowhere. And if I understand the latest fallout, he's up against three franchises, and the NFL.... Dear Mr. Flores.. the NFL has unlimited deep pockets to contest your claims.... Your NFL career is over, Grover. Ask Colin Kaepernick for a referral...
https://www.nfl.com/news/giants-say-allegations-made-by-brian-flores-are-disturbing-and-simply-false
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In the interview on ESPN, he kept saying, “He didn’t understand the plan”
Well if he didn’t understand they were totally rebuilding the team from ground up, then he’s a BIGGER FOOL then we all thought
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If you actually believed in not litigating humanity or kindness.. then you'd be either supporting this lawsuit because you were "shocked" or you wouldn't have a position - because the lawsuit from Flores explicitly does not do what you claimed.
But don't let facts stop you when you can entertain yourself and others with fun lies!
Calm down.. This will play out in court, in due time. Flores has a Mount Everest to climb attempting to prove his claims.... Just "claiming" something doesn't make it so. There's this thing called hard evidence... If you have it, then great- show it to the judges. He said, she said- will get you nowhere. And if I understand the latest fallout, he's up against three franchises, and the NFL.... Dear Mr. Flores.. the NFL has unlimited deep pockets to contest your claims.... Your NFL career is over, Grover. Ask Colin Kaepernick for a referral...
https://www.nfl.com/news/giants-say-allegations-made-by-brian-flores-are-disturbing-and-simply-false
Your NFL career is over
His career was over before he filed it because he won too much.. that's why he did it. Thinking his career is over only now is missing the reality..
Calm down
Everyone prefers a comfortable lie to a complicated and often discomforting truth.
"When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
His career was over before he filed it because he won too much.. that's why he did it. Thinking his career is over only now is missing the reality..
According to the talking heads on the NFL Network, he is still under consideration for the Texans & Saints HC positions.
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