Tale of the Tape - Browns vs Patriots
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
IMO we do not capitalize on play action in likely run downs.
Yeah. I don't ever see a good reason for us to have Chubb on the field and then put him in motion to line up at WR. His presence in the backfield would have a helluvalot more effect on a defense. Although I think Chubb can catch the ball pretty well, I don't think he runs his little pass routes very well and the QB's (including Baker) are throwing it to where he was supposed to run the route. He tends to shade the route one way or another...whereas the QB's and Hunt don't have the same sync problems.
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
Nice picture and nice post.
This tiamat guy is so busy taking notes that he has no concept of what is going on down on the field.
I agree on Donavan
I like tiamat's posts, actually I like just about everybody's insight here. A little humor, a little angst, right up my alley.
Ill be on Galveston Island with the grandkids Sunday. Probably will miss the game. Family 1st.
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
My point about the Browns not using play action is NOT the amount of times that they have movement in the background.
...yeah...I went off on a Chubb pass route tangent that's been on my mind for a year or more. Ya know, many times on 2nd and 1 or 2 I find myself thinking, 'Don't bother trying to get cute here'. We're a running team. It's what we do best. Just get the 1st down. I wish I had confidence in our passing game. I'd prefer us to be a great passing team than a great running team. But we're not. Schwartz is just runnin' around out there. DPJ isn't a dominant receiver (I've learned to like him a lot though...he works hard out there, he makes toughly contested catches, you never hear anything bad about him...I like him), Bryant is a catch a game guy, Felton doesn't even dress for games, and Bell is a rookie 3rd round pick...It's basically Njoku and Cooper....and a career backup QB...who's actually playing better than any of us expected.
Because we run so incredibly well, I'd rather see Hunt or even Chubb in the backfield than going 4 or 5 wide on passing downs. We're not deep enough at WR where the 4th or 5th guy scares the D more than having Hunt in the backfield.
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The way New England has looked this season, there's no reason the Browns can't win.
But man, they absolutely obliterated the Browns last season, in all phases.
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This is a big game for us New Englanders. Our 'friends', family and coworkers will be watching the Browns on their TV sets.
Two weeks ago the Browns were the #7 run D in the league. They tumbled 21 spots. At this moment as I type, there's a rumor that Woods is fired. Obviously, it wouldn't be a surprise. The only surprise would be if they kept the run D coach.
ANYhow...Belleyache knows that we've gotta run the ball. And I'm sure he figures that his pass D will be fine against our offense so he'll be trying to take our run away. And on offense, he knows that we struggle stopping the run game...so....we know what Bill's gonna do. 'Cos we KNOW him. He's gonna run it down our throats until we prove that we can stop him. Just like Atlanta did in the 2nd half...except he's going to do it right from the get-go. - I think we should put Kareem Hunt in at LB'er and tell him to Muckle The Guy With The Ball!!
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2nd half summary
1st & 2nd drive. 15% play action. Can't help but notice LAC came out in their 'base' defensive personnel both series though. This is incredibly similar to how PIT started the 2nd half of our first game against them. Some of you reading might remember mention of how the coaching staff used empty sets either on initial lineup or motion to give Jacoby clear and easy throws. This helped force the Steelers into their nickel personnel which the Browns responded by running on the smaller lineup. Browns did about the same thing here. It's actually a damn good counter by the coaching staff to have this ready. I'll explain why - running something until the defense stops it is Jim Tressel. As much as I love me some coach Tress, the problem with this is that the defensive stopped it and knows that your counter is likely coming. Therefore they're able to make their adjustments in real time as you are also doing the same. Pete Carroll at SC on the other hand had a 'run it until I know you HAVE to counter it' philosophy. Which is why, IMHO, he and his coaching staff ran one of the most successful passing games of the era in those 2000's years.
Oh, in different coloring. ONE EMPTY SET. .... 1. Uno. 1st drive of half.
ONE EMPTY SET..... 1, in 2nd drive of half.
3rd drive. Play action 33.33% of the time
Lead with run then into ball action.
4th drive. Play action 50% of the time.
Lead with play action. Zero empty sets.
For those following at home. That's 11 drives (not including the game missing FG drive) 34 passes, and only a grand total of TWO plays from empty.
For an absolute MONSTER 5.8% of the Browns total throws... wowzer. That's a high number if you're tipping in a Chinese restaurant.
And empty sets were used on only 2 of 11 drives. That's 18.18%, or less than 1/5th of the time you might find CLE run an empty play here or there.
Of the 2 empty set throws, there was only ONE on 1st down. The other was 3rd and 7 on the 2nd drive, which the Browns converted, by the way.
At this point, if you aren't getting your Browns breakdowns from me or maybe a couple other sources who put the work into generating the knowledge, then I'll arrogantly tell you that you're selling yourself short from formulating a much more accurate and detailed football opinion.
I'll check back in later this week with my final tabs on how the betting lines setting. God bless.
2nd half summary
1st & 2nd drive. 15% play action. Can't help but notice LAC came out in their 'base' defensive personnel both series though. This is incredibly similar to how PIT started the 2nd half of our first game against them. Some of you reading might remember mention of how the coaching staff used empty sets either on initial lineup or motion to give Jacoby clear and easy throws. This helped force the Steelers into their nickel personnel which the Browns responded by running on the smaller lineup. Browns did about the same thing here. It's actually a damn good counter by the coaching staff to have this ready. I'll explain why - running something until the defense stops it is Jim Tressel. As much as I love me some coach Tress, the problem with this is that the defensive stopped it and knows that your counter is likely coming. Therefore they're able to make their adjustments in real time as you are also doing the same. Pete Carroll at SC on the other hand had a 'run it until I know you HAVE to counter it' philosophy. Which is why, IMHO, he and his coaching staff ran one of the most successful passing games of the era in those 2000's years.
Oh, in different coloring. ONE EMPTY SET. .... 1. Uno. 1st drive of half.
ONE EMPTY SET..... 1, in 2nd drive of half.
3rd drive. Play action 33.33% of the time
Lead with run then into ball action.
4th drive. Play action 50% of the time.
Lead with play action. Zero empty sets.
For those following at home. That's 11 drives (not including the game missing FG drive) 34 passes, and only a grand total of TWO plays from empty.
For an absolute MONSTER 5.8% of the Browns total throws... wowzer. That's a high number if you're tipping in a Chinese restaurant.
And empty sets were used on only 2 of 11 drives. That's 18.18%, or less than 1/5th of the time you might find CLE run an empty play here or there.
Of the 2 empty set throws, there was only ONE on 1st down. The other was 3rd and 7 on the 2nd drive, which the Browns converted, by the way.
At this point, if you aren't getting your Browns breakdowns from me or maybe a couple other sources who put the work into generating the knowledge, then I'll arrogantly tell you that you're selling yourself short from formulating a much more accurate and detailed football opinion.
I'll check back in later this week with my final tabs on how the betting lines setting. God bless.
Thanks for taking the time to do all that Tia and the ongoing efforts to educate our fans as much as possible in here!
I don't know if radio broadcasters do the same weekly preparations that a guy like Hall of Fame QB Troy Aikman does when he is going to cover a game. Having said that, who do we suppose is going to give us the better analysis of what they're looking at? A glorified male cheerleader/fan announcing or a HOF player that thoroughly understands formations, etc. Anyway, it sounds like 2 guys in here that listened to the radio got the same message about what the guys covering the game thought about Cleveland's offensive formations limiting the Browns' opportunities. Sounds like Bob was listening to the same pov about the Browns from the Chargers broadcasters from part of his trip.
When I saw Ghoolie mention that empty backfield formation I freaking despise, I didn't even think about how many times they did it in just this 1 game or if they did it at all. I thought he made a legitimate attempt to talk about an offensive concern he had from what he heard. The first thing that crossed my mind is how UNSOUND that formation is when your QB isn't Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers - it's a career backup. I've seen that formation fail so may times that it's become a gag reflex. I can only GUESS if broadcasters working the game (ie; Chargers) did some research and film prep (in spite of what kind of experts they are) they found a good reason to bring up some formational handcuffs.
Here's the thing: while it's hard to fault the offense and the points per game they're averaging when the defense plays Santa Claus to our opponents - a big picture concern is how many games this year that they're losing leads. Opponents can't erase deficits if our offensive firepower doesn't allow them to keep pace, realistic or not, with the way this team is wired right now. IMO, this is where the frustration comes in from a fan/broadcaster hybrid like Donovan and those of us watching from home or listening on the radio.
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After BB lost his starting QB Matt Jones.. Bill's Patriots defense has shown some new life in Chowder town.. Something we're still waiting on in Cleveland ?..
The Browns, last match-up in New England?
Stef got out coached by the defensive coaching wizard.. but, we had no Chunt/ and DJ was our starting RB.. Not this time ! But we might still have to deal with Pats. RB Rhamondre (joystick) Stevenson, if RB Damien Harris does not play.
After reviewing the last 2 Patriots games..
1) WR Amari Cooper will be erased from JB's 1st target on passing downs.. Might be a good thing? We need other WR/TE weapons to show the hell up...
2) Get use to seeing 7/8 in the box to stop the run first vs New England.. But the Lions never scored last week, because their LB/DB's have speed in coverage to clogged up everything underneath..Brissett won't see the coverage pre-snap..
This we be a good chess match week to grade Stef with all his (AB's so called) weapons..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
After BB lost his starting QB Matt Jones.. Bill's Patriots defense has shown some new life in Chowder town.. Something we're still waiting on in Cleveland ?..
The Browns, last match-up in New England?
Stef got out coached by the defensive coaching wizard.. but, we had no Chunt/ and DJ was our starting RB.. Not this time ! But we might still have to deal with Pats. RB Rhamondre (joystick) Stevenson, if RB Damien Harris does not play.
After reviewing the last 2 Patriots games..
1) WR Amari Cooper will be erased from JB's 1st target on passing downs.. Might be a good thing? We need other WR/TE weapons to show the hell up...
2) Get use to seeing 7/8 in the box to stop the run first vs New England.. But the Lions never scored last week, because their LB/DB's have speed in coverage to clogged up everything underneath..Brissett won't see the coverage pre-snap..
This we be a good chess match week to grade Stef with all his (AB's so called) weapons..
After BB lost his starting QB Matt Jones.. Bill's Patriots defense has shown some new life in Chowder town.. Something we're still waiting on in Cleveland ?..
The Browns, last match-up in New England?
Stef got out coached by the defensive coaching wizard.. but, we had no Chunt/ and DJ was our starting RB.. Not this time ! But we might still have to deal with Pats. RB Rhamondre (joystick) Stevenson, if RB Damien Harris does not play.
After reviewing the last 2 Patriots games..
1) WR Amari Cooper will be erased from JB's 1st target on passing downs.. Might be a good thing? We need other WR/TE weapons to show the hell up...
2) Get use to seeing 7/8 in the box to stop the run first vs New England.. But the Lions never scored last week, because their LB/DB's have speed in coverage to clogged up everything underneath..Brissett won't see the coverage pre-snap..
This we be a good chest match week to grade Stef with all his (AB's so called) weapons..
Yes I'm sure Uncle Kevvy(George Michael) has plenty of chest hair for you to play with lol....
-
After BB lost his starting QB Matt Jones.. Bill's Patriots defense has shown some new life in Chowder town.. Something we're still waiting on in Cleveland ?..
The Browns, last match-up in New England?
Stef got out coached by the defensive coaching wizard.. but, we had no Chunt/ and DJ was our starting RB.. Not this time ! But we might still have to deal with Pats. RB Rhamondre (joystick) Stevenson, if RB Damien Harris does not play.
After reviewing the last 2 Patriots games..
1) WR Amari Cooper will be erased from JB's 1st target on passing downs.. Might be a good thing? We need other WR/TE weapons to show the hell up...
2) Get use to seeing 7/8 in the box to stop the run first vs New England.. But the Lions never scored last week, because their LB/DB's have speed in coverage to clogged up everything underneath..Brissett won't see the coverage pre-snap..
This we be a good chest match week to grade Stef with all his (AB's so called) weapons..
Yes I'm sure Uncle Kevvy(George Michael) has plenty of chest hair for you to play with lol....
-
After BB lost his starting QB Matt Jones.. Bill's Patriots defense has shown some new life in Chowder town.. Something we're still waiting on in Cleveland ?..
The Browns, last match-up in New England?
Stef got out coached by the defensive coaching wizard.. but, we had no Chunt/ and DJ was our starting RB.. Not this time ! But we might still have to deal with Pats. RB Rhamondre (joystick) Stevenson, if RB Damien Harris does not play.
After reviewing the last 2 Patriots games..
1) WR Amari Cooper will be erased from JB's 1st target on passing downs.. Might be a good thing? We need other WR/TE weapons to show the hell up...
2) Get use to seeing 7/8 in the box to stop the run first vs New England.. But the Lions never scored last week, because their LB/DB's have speed in coverage to clogged up everything underneath..Brissett won't see the coverage pre-snap..
This we be a good chess match week to grade Stef with all his (AB's so called) weapons..
1) WR Amari Cooper will be erased from JB's 1st target on passing downs.. Might be a good thing? We need other WR/TE weapons to show the hell up...
2) Get use to seeing 7/8 in the box to stop the run first vs New England..
This we be a good chess match week to grade Stef with all his (AB's so called) weapons..
1st bold - there was evidence of just this against the Chargers and their defensive calls against certain personnel alignments. When the coaches moved Coop to the slot to try and draw a more favorable assignment, the Bolts responded with showing 2 high pre-snap, then rolling into a cover 1 where they rat safety and nickel corner would attempt to bracket AC. The corner played an outside shade while the safety would stem top-down taking away inside and horitzonal. The problem being that, because of our QB's hit and miss nature of throwing outside and towards the numbers, dialing up throws negative breaking routes isn't something you can just take for granted. So as the Browns coaches attempt to find as many combinations as possible for our QB that invite positive (in) breaking throws, the Pats defensive staff are going to leverage to help make those routes hell. It's not at all a good thing because Brissett needs quite a bit of time to find his #2. I can only hope his familiarity with the Pats defensive measures can give him some help.
2nd bold - been seeing it all year.
3rd bold - Not really. It's my hope the offense shows a bit more consistency and effectiveness than last seasons matchup. But that has a lot to do with having Chubb and Hunt in this game. I have little doubt the Brownies score under their season average, we don't have the passing game to consistency attack the Pats secondary in the ways they're weakest. Our defense is even weaker in the middle compared to last year, so I would suspect this game playing out pretty tight and low(er) scoring.
edit: I'm watching the Pats - Lions game right now. As expected, the NE defense is doing a great job against the Lions outside zone calls.
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
Talent wise, this will be the 6th game.in a row that the Browns have/had a good chance of winning.
Discipline and our overall game management give me the heeboe jeebies.
If it is close, I think Beliclit has an edge over whoever is pulling ShitMyPantski's strings.
I think the Depo squad vs coaching staff is about to boil over. Lots of rumbling now leaking about coaches not getting to call shots on personnel and more.
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
Talent wise, this will be the 6th game.in a row that the Browns have/had a good chance of winning.
Discipline and our overall game management give me the heeboe jeebies.
If it is close, I think Beliclit has an edge over whoever is pulling ShitMyPantski's strings.
I think the Depo squad vs coaching staff is about to boil over. Lots of rumbling now leaking about coaches not getting to call shots on personnel and more.
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QB Mac Jones is on the plane to Cleveland. (Questionable)
Rookie Bailey Zappe would start if Jones doesn't play Sunday when the Patriots (2-3) visit the Browns (2-3). The Patriots also have veteran Garrett Gilbert on the practice squad and can elevate him for the game for depth.
Injured running back Damien Harris (hamstring) also hasn't been ruled out.
The Patriots declared Saturday afternoon that two injured players would be out for the game -- starting cornerback Jonathan Jones and No. 3 receiver Nelson Agholor -- but it was notable that Jones wasn't part of the club's announcement.
OLB Josh Oche/ DE J. Clowney/ CB D.Ward were labeled as OUT on Friday..
CB Greedy Williams was activated from injured reserve. G.Williams can play Sunday.
The Browns have also signed LB Dakota Allen to the active roster from the practice squad.
In addition, the team has elevated CB Herb Miller and WR Chester Rogers from the practice squad. Newly added DT Tyeler Davison remains not elevated from PS
#Browns
are not activating new LB Deion Jones from IR for Sunday's game vs. Patriots. ?
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QB Mac Jones is on the plane to Cleveland. (Questionable)
Rookie Bailey Zappe would start if Jones doesn't play Sunday when the Patriots (2-3) visit the Browns (2-3). The Patriots also have veteran Garrett Gilbert on the practice squad and can elevate him for the game for depth.
Injured running back Damien Harris (hamstring) also hasn't been ruled out.
The Patriots declared Saturday afternoon that two injured players would be out for the game -- starting cornerback Jonathan Jones and No. 3 receiver Nelson Agholor -- but it was notable that Jones wasn't part of the club's announcement.
OLB Josh Oche/ DE J. Clowney/ CB D.Ward were labeled as OUT on Friday..
CB Greedy Williams was activated from injured reserve. G.Williams can play Sunday.
The Browns have also signed LB Dakota Allen to the active roster from the practice squad.
In addition, the team has elevated CB Herb Miller and WR Chester Rogers from the practice squad. Newly added DT Tyeler Davison remains not elevated from PS
#Browns
are not activating new LB Deion Jones from IR for Sunday's game vs. Patriots. ?
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I might watch this game live. Only because I'm wearing a big grey boot - broken toe. dammit.
Obviously to all, buttichek knows that Chubb is awesome and he'll work on stopxx, I mean, limiting him to as few yards near 90-100 as possible.
I think this game comes down to Devin McCourty, Kyle Duggar, and Jabril Peppers - if they can frustrate Brissett and nab some interceptions etc, that could be the way they win.
For the pats, if mac jones and damien harris, rb, can't go - Zappe can flat out play, too -
and at rb, Rhomondre Stevenson (?) is a serious big bruiser.
In a game of chess, the Browns may end up playing checkers and buttichek may look "brilliant" again.
Should be pretty interesting.
How about that GUARDINDIANS WIN LAST NIGHT EH ????? WOW !
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Poopies!! And no Clowney against the run. Here we go again. STAMPEED!
^ I'd call this a win ^
Saw what was expected on a bad tech/coached defense..
Corners, jersey tugging.. face guarding..and nothing close to a pick on a rookie QB
Jacob Phillips, No arm wrap tackling.. just duck your head & shoulders and watch them bounce
Taki, chooses to push TE's out of bounds instead of covering them
Saw a team that needed their bye week this week.. (than maybe some staff changes/other than OL/RB)
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Poopies!! And no Clowney against the run. Here we go again. STAMPEED!
^ I'd call this a win ^
Saw what was expected on a bad tech/coached defense..
Corners, jersey tugging.. face guarding..and nothing close to a pick on a rookie QB
Jacob Phillips, No arm wrap tackling.. just duck your head & shoulders and watch them bounce
Taki, chooses to push TE's out of bounds instead of covering them
Saw a team that needed their bye week this week.. (than maybe some staff changes/other than OL/RB)
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Poopies!! And no Clowney against the run. Here we go again. STAMPEED!
^ I'd call this a win ^
Saw what was expected on a bad tech/coached defense..
Corners, jersey tugging.. face guarding..and nothing close to a pick on a rookie QB
Jacob Phillips, No arm wrap tackling.. just duck your head & shoulders and watch them bounce
Taki, chooses to push TE's out of bounds instead of covering them
Saw a team that needed their bye week this week.. (than maybe some staff changes/other than OL/RB)
Jacob Phillips, No arm wrap tackling.. just duck your head & shoulders and watch them bounce)
Let us not forget a certain Grant Delpit on this, too.
It's going to be interesting what this defense looks like next year when the new defensive coaching staff gets a look at the roster.
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Poopies!! And no Clowney against the run. Here we go again. STAMPEED!
^ I'd call this a win ^
Saw what was expected on a bad tech/coached defense..
Corners, jersey tugging.. face guarding..and nothing close to a pick on a rookie QB
Jacob Phillips, No arm wrap tackling.. just duck your head & shoulders and watch them bounce
Taki, chooses to push TE's out of bounds instead of covering them
Saw a team that needed their bye week this week.. (than maybe some staff changes/other than OL/RB)
Taki, chooses to push TE's out of bounds instead of covering them
lol....just what I was thinking at the time.
My perception was that he was well aware of his own inability to cover the TE. This combination of self-awareness and last ditch effort was one of the very few highlights of the game to me.
fify
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