2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects
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Cleveland Browns
Round 2, Pick 42
Keeanu Benton
Calijah Kancey
*
Bryan Bresee
Siaki Ika
Tuli Tuipulotu
member edit-Zach Pickens
member edit-Gervon Dexter
Adetomiwa AdebaworeIsaiah FoskeyZach HarrisonSydney BrownChris Smith IIJordan BattleOT
Anton Harrison
Dawand Jones
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Darnell Wright
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TE
Darnell Washington
Luke Musgrave
Zay Flowers
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Jalin Hyatt
Marvin Mims
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Pool of 30 that may get to #42.. but may not get to pick #98 like 10 & 7 are real iffy they get to #43 *
Whom you want to add? or Delete ?
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At this moment, I'm very much on the Jack Campbell or Mazi Smith bandwagons for the 2nd round pick.
A WR or DE would be super and/or duper there too.
I'm sure best player available and need can converge for the Browns there. They could use help all over the roster.
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2023 ClevelandBrowns.com Mock Draft 1.0
Anthony Poisal and Jason Gibbs make their predictions for who the Browns might select with their first two draft picks
Mar 10, 2023 at 09:01 AM
We're 48 days away from Day 1 of the NFL Draft — and 47 days away from when the Browns are slated to make their first pick of the draft at No. 42 overall.
The Browns don't have a first-round pick but will still likely need to select a player in Round 2 capable of making an immediate difference, and that pick has widely been projected by draft analysts to be spent toward a defensive linemen or wide receiver. Their second pick will come at No. 98 overall in the third round and could also be used at those positions, too.
The first mock draft from ClevelandBrowns.com with staff writer Anthony Poisal and radio producer Jason Gibbs follows those mock trends. We'll check back a few more times before the draft begins and find out next week how the free agency shuffle might affect the Browns' draft needs.
Anthony Poisal
Round 2 (No. 42)
WR Josh Downs, UNC - I think the Browns should take care of their needs at defensive line in free agency, where it should be much easier to find instant-impact players rather than taking a chance at finding a starter with a Day 2 rookie. They should have an easier time, however, finding a speedy receiver at this point of the draft who can immediately be inserted into the lineup and help them stretch opposing defenses. That's what a player like Downs can offer. It's far from a guarantee — but far from impossible — he'll still be available this late in the draft, but the Browns need to add another talented receiver and deep-ball threat for Deshaun Watson, and Downs meets the criteria.
Round 3 (No. 98)
DT Gervon Dexter, Florida - It might not be with their first draft pick, but I think the Browns will still want to draft a defensive lineman on Day 2. NFL.com’s Lance Zierlein tabbed Dexter with a grade that ranks him as "an above-average backup," which could still be an upgrade for a Browns interior D-Line that ranked near the bottom of the league last year. A team like the Browns looking to improve their run defense could be intrigued by his massive 6-foot-6, 310-pound frame.
Jason Gibbs
First mock draft of the year, and it's a weird one not having to guess anything in the first round…yet (I'm sure Poisal will eventually lead us down that path). Three biggest needs for the Browns in my eyes heading into free agency aren't really a surprise to anyone: defensive end, defensive tackle and ride Receiver. For me, it's all about accruing weapons for Deshaun Watson. Look at another team in our division — the Bengals are all about putting playmakers around Joe Burrow. I feel like the Browns need to do the same for Watson. You can never have enough.
Round 2 (No. 42)
WR Tyler Scott, Cincinnati - Probably a wish at this point after his combine, but hey, a man can dream can't he? Our friend Dane Brugler from The Athletic compares him to Tyler Lockett. Outstanding speed, a great route runner and, most importantly, he's a northeast Ohio kid from Norton who knows how to play in the weather. He didn't play out of the slot much in college, which could be a concern, but if that's his biggest flaw… Sign. Me. Up.
Round 3 (No. 98)
EDGE Zach Harrison, THE Ohio State University - If the Browns don't go defense at pick 42, I think they look to improve that side of the ball here in the third round, but not necessarily at DT. I think they bolster that DE room with the addition of Harrison from the Buckeyes. Harrison turned heads with his combine weigh-in process landing in the 99th percentile for arm length and wingspan. To play edge in the NFL you have to have length at the position and Harrison has it. The biggest question for him and the Browns: Will he still be there this late in the round? Remember, the Browns have multiple picks in the fourth and fifth round if they want to try and move up. Plenty of Day 3 assets to throw around.
They should have an easier time, however, finding a speedy receiver at this point of the draft who can immediately be inserted into the lineup and help them stretch opposing defenses.
ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
a lot of folks said Baker - was the problem. His wr's were fine, he just sucked. Now, even after adding a fine wr like Cooper, the big glaring need is for a star wr?
but Baker, who took the Browns to the playoffs with a so so cast of wr's..... didn't need it? but we desperately have to upgrade at wr NOW?
What happened with all the hostile hate towards upgrading with a field stretching star wr .....by some folks?
But mock drafts are right. It's just too late. I'm not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
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They should have an easier time, however, finding a speedy receiver at this point of the draft who can immediately be inserted into the lineup and help them stretch opposing defenses.
ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
a lot of folks said Baker - was the problem. His wr's were fine, he just sucked. Now, even after adding a fine wr like Cooper, the big glaring need is for a star wr?
but Baker, who took the Browns to the playoffs with a so so cast of wr's..... didn't need it? but we desperately have to upgrade at wr NOW?
What happened with all the hostile hate towards upgrading with a field stretching star wr .....by some folks?
But mock drafts are right. It's just too late. I'm not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
a lot of folks said Baker - was the problem. His wr's were fine, he just sucked. Now, even after adding a fine wr like Cooper, the big glaring need is for a star wr?
but Baker, who took the Browns to the playoffs with a so so cast of wr's..... didn't need it? but we desperately have to upgrade at wr NOW?
What happened with all the hostile hate towards upgrading with a field stretching star wr .....by some folks?
But mock drafts are right. It's just too late. I'm not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
I have no idea why people accuse you of being obsessed with Baker Mayfield.
So completely unwarranted.
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the same can be said for Jacoby Brissett. I liked his play, too - but he didn't have the wr that people are talking about now, either. Announcers were talking about it during games.
Sure, once in a while one was open, UNEXPECTEDLY. I said it a lot - the Browns needed a legit deep threat that opened things up for other wr's and the TE. I said look at the difference between the Bengals before and after Jamarr Chase. Same qb, albeit a more experienced one. I would have been delighted to go with Brissett - and add that "Jamarr Chase" to the wr group - and see if he could light it up and get to the playoffs again.
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Baker's biggest problem is that when he knows what's going on, he sucks. He's on TB now, so don't pick Mike Evans before round 4 in next season's FF drafts.
I'll be very happy if Mazi Smith fell in the draft. But he'll likely get picked late in the first.. unless someone watches no tape of Brian Bresee and somehow picks BB instead in round1.
Keion White is an intriguing 280# DE who won't go much further than our spot in round 2 - but I'm tired of drafting Toolsy Prospects Who Can Cover RB's On Wheel Routes.
Zach Pickens is someone I'd think about if we trade back from our spot in round 2 into something later round 2 / first few in round 3.
RAS.football@MathBombZacch Pickens is a DT prospect in the 2023 draft class. He scored a 9.16 RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 125 out of 1478 DT from 1987 to 2023. ras.football/ras-informatio… #RAS
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Baker's biggest problem is that when he knows what's going on, he sucks. He's on TB now, so don't pick Mike Evans before round 4 in next season's FF drafts.
I'll be very happy if Mazi Smith fell in the draft. But he'll likely get picked late in the first.. unless someone watches no tape of Brian Bresee and somehow picks BB instead in round1.
Keion White is an intriguing 280# DE who won't go much further than our spot in round 2 - but I'm tired of drafting Toolsy Prospects Who Can Cover RB's On Wheel Routes.
Zach Pickens is someone I'd think about if we trade back from our spot in round 2 into something later round 2 / first few in round 3.
RAS.football@MathBombZacch Pickens is a DT prospect in the 2023 draft class. He scored a 9.16 RAS out of a possible 10.00. This ranked 125 out of 1478 DT from 1987 to 2023. ras.football/ras-informatio… #RASBaker's biggest problem is that when he knows what's going on, he sucks. He's on TB now, so don't pick Mike Evans before round 4 in next season's FF drafts.
Zach Pickens is someone I'd think about if we trade back from our spot in round 2 into something later round 2 / first few in round 3.
I'd be more interested in Gervon Dexter DT Florida who is coming out early. https://floridagators.com/sports/football/roster/gervon-dexter/15186 Drafttek has him around spot 59 overall.
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Morning, boys. Feels good to be back to a place with wifi.
Just going to get ahead of you both there, initial assessment on Pickens and Dex isn't good, if my word means anything. Dex especially. His first step is a real problem. Good arm extension and leg drive, tends to forget his pad level quite a bit. But I have real concerns about him facing NFL IOL who are going to fire off the ball fast and low.
Pickens is still sort of 'meh' for me. Watched him against Arkansas. Came across a couple nice splash plays, one in particular where the center tried to fold him, he beat the center back over the top and all but shut down a short yardage situation. That was nice, but there were other times he was too easily moved in the hole or didn't flow laterally + vertically with the inside zone. For anyone who follows my stuff, the latter is something that tommy Togiai is probably the worst in the NFL at. Which is why he's effective for us against heavy gap power teams like Baltimore, but so trash against heavy zone teams like ATL.
Although Pickens doesn't have the physical limitations such as height and wingspan that hold double T back. So there's a good bit more raw material there to work with. I just felt like he disappeared for long stretches for a kid being looked at as a top 100 pick. On the bright side, no rookie is going to come in and be first on the field barring absolute disaster in training camp.
Edit: been scratching my head wondering who Gervon reminds me of, finally hit me - Javon Kinlaw. Only, not really the good parts.
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Early assessment on two linebackers.
Daiyan Henley - I like this kid. Gave all of Wazzou vs Oregon a watch. Really triggers downhill and fly's. Also does a good job using his first step quickness to setup free blockers headed to the 2nd level and make them miss while he's on his way to the ball carrier. Excited to watch more.
Jack Campbell - I'm.... I'm not so sure. I have questions on how Iowa structures their fronts AND their coverages. Reminds me of back in the day with Norm Parker. I mean that as both a compliment and a 'WTF?'. Their tape against *ichigan and how they play their conflict linebackers in their 2 high shells reminds me of the mid 2000's. I was just a kid, but I really began to understand and see the horizontal to vertical stress offenses would put on those teams and their cover 2 designs. The Iowa coaches likely did this because their DB's were sort of .... 'meh' this past season. So there are times it's difficult for me to get a read on JC.
I like some of the fluidity of his lateral movement, not many wasted steps. But I question process/pursuit at the same time. When he is the conflict linebacker, he can be a bit late back into any action on the interior running game for fear of leaving his horizontal assignment too early. Questionable effectiveness on blitz assignments. But the Hawks would tend to telegraph their 5 man pressures depending on the front they ran. When *ichigan ran classic speed option his side with him as a read, he completely shut it down with disciplined eyes, body positioning, good angle of attack and wingspan to track down the RB. So that was nice to see. His height and build are going to get him some Urlacher comparisons, I'm absolutely sure of it. I don't know, I wouldn't hate the pick. But at this very moment I sure wouldn't love it either. More on him as well at a later date.
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Early assessment on two linebackers.
Daiyan Henley - I like this kid. Gave all of Wazzou vs Oregon a watch. Really triggers downhill and fly's. Also does a good job using his first step quickness to setup free blockers headed to the 2nd level and make them miss while he's on his way to the ball carrier. Excited to watch more.
Jack Campbell - I'm.... I'm not so sure. I have questions on how Iowa structures their fronts AND their coverages. Reminds me of back in the day with Norm Parker. I mean that as both a compliment and a 'WTF?'. Their tape against *ichigan and how they play their conflict linebackers in their 2 high shells reminds me of the mid 2000's. I was just a kid, but I really began to understand and see the horizontal to vertical stress offenses would put on those teams and their cover 2 designs. The Iowa coaches likely did this because their DB's were sort of .... 'meh' this past season. So there are times it's difficult for me to get a read on JC.
I like some of the fluidity of his lateral movement, not many wasted steps. But I question process/pursuit at the same time. When he is the conflict linebacker, he can be a bit late back into any action on the interior running game for fear of leaving his horizontal assignment too early. Questionable effectiveness on blitz assignments. But the Hawks would tend to telegraph their 5 man pressures depending on the front they ran. When *ichigan ran classic speed option his side with him as a read, he completely shut it down with disciplined eyes, body positioning, good angle of attack and wingspan to track down the RB. So that was nice to see. His height and build are going to get him some Urlacher comparisons, I'm absolutely sure of it. I don't know, I wouldn't hate the pick. But at this very moment I sure wouldn't love it either. More on him as well at a later date.
Jack Campbell - I'm.... I'm not so sure. I have questions on how Iowa structures their fronts AND their coverages. Reminds me of back in the day with Norm Parker. I mean that as both a compliment and a 'WTF?'. Their tape against *ichigan and how they play their conflict linebackers in their 2 high shells reminds me of the mid 2000's. I was just a kid, but I really began to understand and see the horizontal to vertical stress offenses would put on those teams and their cover 2 designs. The Iowa coaches likely did this because their DB's were sort of .... 'meh' this past season. So there are times it's difficult for me to get a read on JC.
I like some of the fluidity of his lateral movement, not many wasted steps. But I question process/pursuit at the same time. When he is the conflict linebacker, he can be a bit late back into any action on the interior running game for fear of leaving his horizontal assignment too early. Questionable effectiveness on blitz assignments. But the Hawks would tend to telegraph their 5 man pressures depending on the front they ran. When *ichigan ran classic speed option his side with him as a read, he completely shut it down with disciplined eyes, body positioning, good angle of attack and wingspan to track down the RB. So that was nice to see. His height and build are going to get him some Urlacher comparisons, I'm absolutely sure of it. I don't know, I wouldn't hate the pick. But at this very moment I sure wouldn't love it either. More on him as well at a later date.
Well this is an interesting turn of events...
I re-read this thread today, and you were the first to bring Campbell up.
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Jack Campbell - I'm.... I'm not so sure. I have questions on how Iowa structures their fronts AND their coverages. Reminds me of back in the day with Norm Parker. I mean that as both a compliment and a 'WTF?'. Their tape against *ichigan and how they play their conflict linebackers in their 2 high shells reminds me of the mid 2000's. I was just a kid, but I really began to understand and see the horizontal to vertical stress offenses would put on those teams and their cover 2 designs. The Iowa coaches likely did this because their DB's were sort of .... 'meh' this past season. So there are times it's difficult for me to get a read on JC.
I like some of the fluidity of his lateral movement, not many wasted steps. But I question process/pursuit at the same time. When he is the conflict linebacker, he can be a bit late back into any action on the interior running game for fear of leaving his horizontal assignment too early. Questionable effectiveness on blitz assignments. But the Hawks would tend to telegraph their 5 man pressures depending on the front they ran. When *ichigan ran classic speed option his side with him as a read, he completely shut it down with disciplined eyes, body positioning, good angle of attack and wingspan to track down the RB. So that was nice to see. His height and build are going to get him some Urlacher comparisons, I'm absolutely sure of it. I don't know, I wouldn't hate the pick. But at this very moment I sure wouldn't love it either. More on him as well at a later date.
Well this is an interesting turn of events...
I re-read this thread today, and you were the first to bring Campbell up.
Well this is an interesting turn of events...
I re-read this thread today, and you were the first to bring Campbell up.
I was. There were things I saw a full speed, especially against the Buckeyes, that I liked. Going back over and combing for details, going through the layers of the Iowa defense to understand the 'how' and 'why'... I feel like he's one of those players I'm going to have to watch damn near every snap from not only this season, but then go back to 2021 to try and see/project the growth from the previous year before I become more settled on my finality of him. As of right now, it's very up and down, very tepid.
edit: And with the history of how this front office drafts in relation to RAS and Athletic score, I can see Campbell being near the very top of their board. It's a good and bad thing.
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If Campbell and DT Mazi Smith are both available at #42, who would you take of the two?
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If Campbell and DT Mazi Smith are both available at #42, who would you take of the two?
If Campbell and DT Mazi Smith are both available at #42, who would you take of the two?
I'm looking at this two ways.
1st - with the information and (limited) film viewing I have now. Been on vacation the last week, and then very busy the previous couple. So I haven't had the time to put in the work I would like to.
2nd - with the idea that I'm looking to pair a potential IDL and LB combo in the 2nd & 3rd.
(Then dip back into skill players with my 4th rounders, possible bundling one of them to move back up late day 2. But that's a conversation for another time)
With that said, if you gave me the option of taking...
Campbell at #42 and IDL at 3rd round (let's say Benton possibly?)
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Mazi at #42 and Daiyan Henley 3rd round (LB)
Then I'm going the Mazi and DH combo over Campbell at #42 and a TBD IDL 3rd round.
Edit: For now, that's my answer. Always subject to change depending on what else film helps me dig up.
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They should have an easier time, however, finding a speedy receiver at this point of the draft who can immediately be inserted into the lineup and help them stretch opposing defenses.
ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
a lot of folks said Baker - was the problem. His wr's were fine, he just sucked. Now, even after adding a fine wr like Cooper, the big glaring need is for a star wr?
but Baker, who took the Browns to the playoffs with a so so cast of wr's..... didn't need it? but we desperately have to upgrade at wr NOW?
What happened with all the hostile hate towards upgrading with a field stretching star wr .....by some folks?
But mock drafts are right. It's just too late. I'm not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
Im not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
the same can be said for Jacoby Brissett. I liked his play, too - but he didn't have the wr that people are talking about now, either. Announcers were talking about it during games.
Sure, once in a while one was open, UNEXPECTEDLY. I said it a lot - the Browns needed a legit deep threat that opened things up for other wr's and the TE. I said look at the difference between the Bengals before and after Jamarr Chase. Same qb, albeit a more experienced one. I would have been delighted to go with Brissett - and add that "Jamarr Chase" to the wr group - and see if he could light it up and get to the playoffs again.
I'm going to unpack and tear down all of this. Not for you, not at all. No response from you will be read by myself. This is for anyone who would believe that you have anything to contribute worth reading (spoiler alert, you don't). Let's begin...
Nobody has mentioned WR as a desperation or even a need. It has been a mutual discussion on BPA and depth. With Coop the pressing "need" for a WR isn't there. You'll notice that's also why Njoku and Bryant are being talked about, with a lesser extent Bell and Felton. Because the collective of pass catchers as a whole is the topic. You didn't see a soup advocating for WR at 42 before Dalvin Tomlinson was brought on board. This is strictly BPA talk.
Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022. Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster.
And you keep bringing up Jamarr and Burrow. So we'll deep dive into that one.
During his injury shortened 2020 season, Burrow's stats looked like this.
10 GS
404 attempts
2,688 yards
268.8 avg
6.8 YPC
13 TD's
5 INT's.
89.8 RTG.
Keep in mind, that's his rookie season alone. The one where you're implying the Bengals receivers weren't very good, hence why they drafted Chase. Using the same volume passing and over a 16 game season, Joey's numbers play out to around...
4,288 yards
6.8 YPC
21 TD's
8 INT's
65.3% comp
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Let's go a step further. We'll throw out the rookie season high and low games and work to find our true median. That brings us to numbers that look like.
262.3 YPG
10 TDs
3 INTs
64.5% comp
1.25 TDs per game to .3int. So 4.15x more TDs per game than picks thrown.
All of those numbers best any 10 game stretch from Bakers career 2018-2020. I checked. That is with an offensive line that has graded out worse than the Browns over that same season and receivers, as you put it, needed Jamarr chase to "open things up". Looking at personnel and Oline grades, the Browns 2019 team compares favorably to the Bengals 2020 group. (again, without Chase) That was Baker's worst season. Where, even in his best, he still falls criminally short of numbers Burrow was approaching as a rook.
The Bengals added Jamarr because, as a rookie, Joe Burrow was already better than a 3rd year Baker. Hell, senior season at LSU Joe was better than 3rd year NFL Baker. They also went for a position for two reasons - BPA dictated as much, and CIN knew they had a QB who could maximize the skill set of said receiver. Did they "need" him? No, it was luxury they have the QB ability to show off with.
If I give Tom Brady Randy Moss, then you're going to get 2007. If I give Jacoby Brissett Randy Moss, yes your team will be better for it and so will your QB. But you aren't going to be 2007 special. Not even close.
Because the handicap, the bottleneck on your team, is your QB. Who won't maximize the talent he has been handed. You cannot have the most important position in the entire sport being the player that holds the offense under the glass ceiling. Which was Baker's problem. With that means you'll be overpaying and not getting equivalent value in return.
Joey Buckets is still going to be great with an average group of receivers, we've seen some of that. Baker will not be great with an average group of receivers, and we've seen that as well.
Now, do I know for certain Watson is going to be THAT QB? No. But I hope to God he is. But still, this is an evidence based game in a QB driven league. Any and all evidence, from how defensive coaches structure and call their game, to how the stats look on the sheet, points in a direction that highly favored Deshaun.
Cal, I preferred it when you just came out of the closet as a Baker lover and nothing else. Because I know I'm not even replying to a Browns fan, which is tragic. But you only serve to embarrass yourself when you chime in with this nonsense. You'll notice, aside from Dutch trolling you a bit, not a person besides myself bothered to respond. Move on.
Edit: something else I hadn't considered.
Jacoby's stats projected over a 16 game season look like.
3792 yards
237ypg
19 TDs
8ints
64% comp
7.1 YPA
High water mark of 2020.
3563 yards
222.8 YPG
26TDs
8ints
62.8% comp
7.3 YPA
The high water mark again being Baker. Why would I hand him $35+ mil a year for a 7 TD difference? We understand Jacoby to be a journeyman QB. Capable, completely unspectacular, and unable to elevate the talent around him.
So if the results are so comparable, then why all the hand-wringing about Baker? It's white noise at this point. Best to let it go.
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The #42 pick is gonzo, making the Jack Campbell vs Mazi Smith debate a moo point.
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ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
Im not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
the same can be said for Jacoby Brissett. I liked his play, too - but he didn't have the wr that people are talking about now, either. Announcers were talking about it during games.
Sure, once in a while one was open, UNEXPECTEDLY. I said it a lot - the Browns needed a legit deep threat that opened things up for other wr's and the TE. I said look at the difference between the Bengals before and after Jamarr Chase. Same qb, albeit a more experienced one. I would have been delighted to go with Brissett - and add that "Jamarr Chase" to the wr group - and see if he could light it up and get to the playoffs again.
I'm going to unpack and tear down all of this. Not for you, not at all. No response from you will be read by myself. This is for anyone who would believe that you have anything to contribute worth reading (spoiler alert, you don't). Let's begin...
Nobody has mentioned WR as a desperation or even a need. It has been a mutual discussion on BPA and depth. With Coop the pressing "need" for a WR isn't there. You'll notice that's also why Njoku and Bryant are being talked about, with a lesser extent Bell and Felton. Because the collective of pass catchers as a whole is the topic. You didn't see a soup advocating for WR at 42 before Dalvin Tomlinson was brought on board. This is strictly BPA talk.
Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022. Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster.
And you keep bringing up Jamarr and Burrow. So we'll deep dive into that one.
During his injury shortened 2020 season, Burrow's stats looked like this.
10 GS
404 attempts
2,688 yards
268.8 avg
6.8 YPC
13 TD's
5 INT's.
89.8 RTG.
Keep in mind, that's his rookie season alone. The one where you're implying the Bengals receivers weren't very good, hence why they drafted Chase. Using the same volume passing and over a 16 game season, Joey's numbers play out to around...
4,288 yards
6.8 YPC
21 TD's
8 INT's
65.3% comp
-------------------
Let's go a step further. We'll throw out the rookie season high and low games and work to find our true median. That brings us to numbers that look like.
262.3 YPG
10 TDs
3 INTs
64.5% comp
1.25 TDs per game to .3int. So 4.15x more TDs per game than picks thrown.
All of those numbers best any 10 game stretch from Bakers career 2018-2020. I checked. That is with an offensive line that has graded out worse than the Browns over that same season and receivers, as you put it, needed Jamarr chase to "open things up". Looking at personnel and Oline grades, the Browns 2019 team compares favorably to the Bengals 2020 group. (again, without Chase) That was Baker's worst season. Where, even in his best, he still falls criminally short of numbers Burrow was approaching as a rook.
The Bengals added Jamarr because, as a rookie, Joe Burrow was already better than a 3rd year Baker. Hell, senior season at LSU Joe was better than 3rd year NFL Baker. They also went for a position for two reasons - BPA dictated as much, and CIN knew they had a QB who could maximize the skill set of said receiver. Did they "need" him? No, it was luxury they have the QB ability to show off with.
If I give Tom Brady Randy Moss, then you're going to get 2007. If I give Jacoby Brissett Randy Moss, yes your team will be better for it and so will your QB. But you aren't going to be 2007 special. Not even close.
Because the handicap, the bottleneck on your team, is your QB. Who won't maximize the talent he has been handed. You cannot have the most important position in the entire sport being the player that holds the offense under the glass ceiling. Which was Baker's problem. With that means you'll be overpaying and not getting equivalent value in return.
Joey Buckets is still going to be great with an average group of receivers, we've seen some of that. Baker will not be great with an average group of receivers, and we've seen that as well.
Now, do I know for certain Watson is going to be THAT QB? No. But I hope to God he is. But still, this is an evidence based game in a QB driven league. Any and all evidence, from how defensive coaches structure and call their game, to how the stats look on the sheet, points in a direction that highly favored Deshaun.
Cal, I preferred it when you just came out of the closet as a Baker lover and nothing else. Because I know I'm not even replying to a Browns fan, which is tragic. But you only serve to embarrass yourself when you chime in with this nonsense. You'll notice, aside from Dutch trolling you a bit, not a person besides myself bothered to respond. Move on.
Edit: something else I hadn't considered.
Jacoby's stats projected over a 16 game season look like.
3792 yards
237ypg
19 TDs
8ints
64% comp
7.1 YPA
High water mark of 2020.
3563 yards
222.8 YPG
26TDs
8ints
62.8% comp
7.3 YPA
The high water mark again being Baker. Why would I hand him $35+ mil a year for a 7 TD difference? We understand Jacoby to be a journeyman QB. Capable, completely unspectacular, and unable to elevate the talent around him.
So if the results are so comparable, then why all the hand-wringing about Baker? It's white noise at this point. Best to let it go.
Nobody has mentioned WR as a desperation or even a need. It has been a mutual discussion on BPA and depth. With Coop the pressing "need" for a WR isn't there. You'll notice that's also why Njoku and Bryant are being talked about, with a lesser extent Bell and Felton. Because the collective of pass catchers as a whole is the topic. You didn't see a soup advocating for WR at 42 before Dalvin Tomlinson was brought on board. This is strictly BPA talk.
that's stupid. I sure the hell did. and got bitched at for it. Go back and look, but, you won't. Crap like "our wr's are fine" etc etc etc. Just to bash Baker. I kept talking about the improvement in the Bengals offense. That is a fact.
Keep in mind, that's his rookie season alone. The one where you're implying the Bengals receivers weren't very good, hence why they drafted Chase. Using the same volume passing and over a 16 game season, Joey's numbers play out to around...
that is a lie, I "inferred" no such thing. Their two wr's were very, very good. But Chase made a huge, huge difference in their offense.
"While the universe of draft big boards strewn across the NFL media landscape seemed to have Pitts rated as the highest non-quarterback (he went No. 4 to Atlanta), Chase and Sewell were the best players at positions of need for the Bengals. If it wasn't rock-paper-scissors, but it could have been. But what's not left to chance is that the Bengals' struggling long ball now has one of the best deep receivers to ever play in college ball."
**********************************************
I often said the Browns needed a deep threat, dynamic addition to their offense. Read the above quote.
I was correct, and if you are too much afraid to read my response,
read:
While the universe of draft big boards strewn across the NFL media landscape seemed to have Pitts rated as the highest non-quarterback (he went No. 4 to Atlanta), Chase and Sewell were the best players at positions of need for the Bengals. If it wasn't rock-paper-scissors, but it could have been. But what's not left to chance is that the Bengals' struggling long ball now has one of the best deep receivers to ever play in college ball.
But you "won't read..." haha. Then have other guys on the board look it up for you.
this one, too:
and other posters can lead you to this one, too:
Now, some of the haters who demanded that the Browns wr's were just fine (despite Doug Dieken mentioning more than once that the wr's were NOT GETTING OPEN................
NOW they are talking about the need to add a major WR even with the addition of Amari Cooper.
Just mentioned it. Your attempt to respond is duly noted as a bogus ego-inflating endeavor.
Try to have one nice day, maybe your first.
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ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
Im not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
the same can be said for Jacoby Brissett. I liked his play, too - but he didn't have the wr that people are talking about now, either. Announcers were talking about it during games.
Sure, once in a while one was open, UNEXPECTEDLY. I said it a lot - the Browns needed a legit deep threat that opened things up for other wr's and the TE. I said look at the difference between the Bengals before and after Jamarr Chase. Same qb, albeit a more experienced one. I would have been delighted to go with Brissett - and add that "Jamarr Chase" to the wr group - and see if he could light it up and get to the playoffs again.
I'm going to unpack and tear down all of this. Not for you, not at all. No response from you will be read by myself. This is for anyone who would believe that you have anything to contribute worth reading (spoiler alert, you don't). Let's begin...
Nobody has mentioned WR as a desperation or even a need. It has been a mutual discussion on BPA and depth. With Coop the pressing "need" for a WR isn't there. You'll notice that's also why Njoku and Bryant are being talked about, with a lesser extent Bell and Felton. Because the collective of pass catchers as a whole is the topic. You didn't see a soup advocating for WR at 42 before Dalvin Tomlinson was brought on board. This is strictly BPA talk.
Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022. Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster.
And you keep bringing up Jamarr and Burrow. So we'll deep dive into that one.
During his injury shortened 2020 season, Burrow's stats looked like this.
10 GS
404 attempts
2,688 yards
268.8 avg
6.8 YPC
13 TD's
5 INT's.
89.8 RTG.
Keep in mind, that's his rookie season alone. The one where you're implying the Bengals receivers weren't very good, hence why they drafted Chase. Using the same volume passing and over a 16 game season, Joey's numbers play out to around...
4,288 yards
6.8 YPC
21 TD's
8 INT's
65.3% comp
-------------------
Let's go a step further. We'll throw out the rookie season high and low games and work to find our true median. That brings us to numbers that look like.
262.3 YPG
10 TDs
3 INTs
64.5% comp
1.25 TDs per game to .3int. So 4.15x more TDs per game than picks thrown.
All of those numbers best any 10 game stretch from Bakers career 2018-2020. I checked. That is with an offensive line that has graded out worse than the Browns over that same season and receivers, as you put it, needed Jamarr chase to "open things up". Looking at personnel and Oline grades, the Browns 2019 team compares favorably to the Bengals 2020 group. (again, without Chase) That was Baker's worst season. Where, even in his best, he still falls criminally short of numbers Burrow was approaching as a rook.
The Bengals added Jamarr because, as a rookie, Joe Burrow was already better than a 3rd year Baker. Hell, senior season at LSU Joe was better than 3rd year NFL Baker. They also went for a position for two reasons - BPA dictated as much, and CIN knew they had a QB who could maximize the skill set of said receiver. Did they "need" him? No, it was luxury they have the QB ability to show off with.
If I give Tom Brady Randy Moss, then you're going to get 2007. If I give Jacoby Brissett Randy Moss, yes your team will be better for it and so will your QB. But you aren't going to be 2007 special. Not even close.
Because the handicap, the bottleneck on your team, is your QB. Who won't maximize the talent he has been handed. You cannot have the most important position in the entire sport being the player that holds the offense under the glass ceiling. Which was Baker's problem. With that means you'll be overpaying and not getting equivalent value in return.
Joey Buckets is still going to be great with an average group of receivers, we've seen some of that. Baker will not be great with an average group of receivers, and we've seen that as well.
Now, do I know for certain Watson is going to be THAT QB? No. But I hope to God he is. But still, this is an evidence based game in a QB driven league. Any and all evidence, from how defensive coaches structure and call their game, to how the stats look on the sheet, points in a direction that highly favored Deshaun.
Cal, I preferred it when you just came out of the closet as a Baker lover and nothing else. Because I know I'm not even replying to a Browns fan, which is tragic. But you only serve to embarrass yourself when you chime in with this nonsense. You'll notice, aside from Dutch trolling you a bit, not a person besides myself bothered to respond. Move on.
Edit: something else I hadn't considered.
Jacoby's stats projected over a 16 game season look like.
3792 yards
237ypg
19 TDs
8ints
64% comp
7.1 YPA
High water mark of 2020.
3563 yards
222.8 YPG
26TDs
8ints
62.8% comp
7.3 YPA
The high water mark again being Baker. Why would I hand him $35+ mil a year for a 7 TD difference? We understand Jacoby to be a journeyman QB. Capable, completely unspectacular, and unable to elevate the talent around him.
So if the results are so comparable, then why all the hand-wringing about Baker? It's white noise at this point. Best to let it go.
Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022. Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster.
that is either a lie or you are too ignorant to be so arrogant. Maybe you would like to apply to be watson's new fulltime masseuse to make him "happy". wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Currently, ? really?
TodayThe Browns on Wednesday traded for Jets third-year receiver Elijah Moore, giving up their No. 42 overall pick and also getting the Jets' No. 74 -- in the third round -- in return. Moore,...Sp. that article.... dated TODAY. Tiam, the more you try to kiss your own rear end, the more you look like a pompous ass. -
Hey, chicken little -
read this too:
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/elijah-moore-initial-impressions
"The Cleveland Browns have made no secret of the fact they wanted to add speed to this wide receiver group and the acquisition of Elijah Moore from the New York Jets also gives them a player that operates out of the slot, so the move hits on both points."
Hell, even the Browns agree with me, and I was saying it in 2020/2021/2022.
but no, you ran your supreme leader fake news fat mouth at me.
No one else had to respond because they didn't feel guilty.
got ya there, eh? I distinctly remember somebody telling me to STFU about a wr, our wr's are just fine.
no, they were not. The Browns know it. Sorry loser, you lose again.
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and one more thing, tiam -
Here is your own post from another thread: LOL
tiamat63
-
- REGISTERED
- Gender:Male
7.1 YPT.
If you wanted a speed merchant who works the short to intermediate game, Moore appears to be that "classic" slot receiver.
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