2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects
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ok, I have a question. With all the talk about wide receiver desperation to help you know who, I see mock drafts saying draft a wide receiver desperately to stretch the field, etc etc, like the Bengals did for Joe Burrow, etc etc etc, ....
Im not getting the refusal to admit that wr WAS a huge problem that was helping make the offense not function.
the same can be said for Jacoby Brissett. I liked his play, too - but he didn't have the wr that people are talking about now, either. Announcers were talking about it during games.
Sure, once in a while one was open, UNEXPECTEDLY. I said it a lot - the Browns needed a legit deep threat that opened things up for other wr's and the TE. I said look at the difference between the Bengals before and after Jamarr Chase. Same qb, albeit a more experienced one. I would have been delighted to go with Brissett - and add that "Jamarr Chase" to the wr group - and see if he could light it up and get to the playoffs again.
I'm going to unpack and tear down all of this. Not for you, not at all. No response from you will be read by myself. This is for anyone who would believe that you have anything to contribute worth reading (spoiler alert, you don't). Let's begin...
Nobody has mentioned WR as a desperation or even a need. It has been a mutual discussion on BPA and depth. With Coop the pressing "need" for a WR isn't there. You'll notice that's also why Njoku and Bryant are being talked about, with a lesser extent Bell and Felton. Because the collective of pass catchers as a whole is the topic. You didn't see a soup advocating for WR at 42 before Dalvin Tomlinson was brought on board. This is strictly BPA talk.
Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022. Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster.
And you keep bringing up Jamarr and Burrow. So we'll deep dive into that one.
During his injury shortened 2020 season, Burrow's stats looked like this.
10 GS
404 attempts
2,688 yards
268.8 avg
6.8 YPC
13 TD's
5 INT's.
89.8 RTG.
Keep in mind, that's his rookie season alone. The one where you're implying the Bengals receivers weren't very good, hence why they drafted Chase. Using the same volume passing and over a 16 game season, Joey's numbers play out to around...
4,288 yards
6.8 YPC
21 TD's
8 INT's
65.3% comp
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Let's go a step further. We'll throw out the rookie season high and low games and work to find our true median. That brings us to numbers that look like.
262.3 YPG
10 TDs
3 INTs
64.5% comp
1.25 TDs per game to .3int. So 4.15x more TDs per game than picks thrown.
All of those numbers best any 10 game stretch from Bakers career 2018-2020. I checked. That is with an offensive line that has graded out worse than the Browns over that same season and receivers, as you put it, needed Jamarr chase to "open things up". Looking at personnel and Oline grades, the Browns 2019 team compares favorably to the Bengals 2020 group. (again, without Chase) That was Baker's worst season. Where, even in his best, he still falls criminally short of numbers Burrow was approaching as a rook.
The Bengals added Jamarr because, as a rookie, Joe Burrow was already better than a 3rd year Baker. Hell, senior season at LSU Joe was better than 3rd year NFL Baker. They also went for a position for two reasons - BPA dictated as much, and CIN knew they had a QB who could maximize the skill set of said receiver. Did they "need" him? No, it was luxury they have the QB ability to show off with.
If I give Tom Brady Randy Moss, then you're going to get 2007. If I give Jacoby Brissett Randy Moss, yes your team will be better for it and so will your QB. But you aren't going to be 2007 special. Not even close.
Because the handicap, the bottleneck on your team, is your QB. Who won't maximize the talent he has been handed. You cannot have the most important position in the entire sport being the player that holds the offense under the glass ceiling. Which was Baker's problem. With that means you'll be overpaying and not getting equivalent value in return.
Joey Buckets is still going to be great with an average group of receivers, we've seen some of that. Baker will not be great with an average group of receivers, and we've seen that as well.
Now, do I know for certain Watson is going to be THAT QB? No. But I hope to God he is. But still, this is an evidence based game in a QB driven league. Any and all evidence, from how defensive coaches structure and call their game, to how the stats look on the sheet, points in a direction that highly favored Deshaun.
Cal, I preferred it when you just came out of the closet as a Baker lover and nothing else. Because I know I'm not even replying to a Browns fan, which is tragic. But you only serve to embarrass yourself when you chime in with this nonsense. You'll notice, aside from Dutch trolling you a bit, not a person besides myself bothered to respond. Move on.
Edit: something else I hadn't considered.
Jacoby's stats projected over a 16 game season look like.
3792 yards
237ypg
19 TDs
8ints
64% comp
7.1 YPA
High water mark of 2020.
3563 yards
222.8 YPG
26TDs
8ints
62.8% comp
7.3 YPA
The high water mark again being Baker. Why would I hand him $35+ mil a year for a 7 TD difference? We understand Jacoby to be a journeyman QB. Capable, completely unspectacular, and unable to elevate the talent around him.
So if the results are so comparable, then why all the hand-wringing about Baker? It's white noise at this point. Best to let it go.
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Watson is currently set to walk into the 2023 season with the exact same pass catchers Jacoby had in 2022. Anyone drafted likely won't be slotted in for starting barring a miracle or a disaster.
that is either a lie or you are too ignorant to be so arrogant. Maybe you would like to apply to be watson's new fulltime masseuse to make him "happy". wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Currently, ? really?
TodayThe Browns on Wednesday traded for Jets third-year receiver Elijah Moore, giving up their No. 42 overall pick and also getting the Jets' No. 74 -- in the third round -- in return. Moore,...Sp. that article.... dated TODAY. Tiam, the more you try to kiss your own rear end, the more you look like a pompous ass. -
Hey, chicken little -
read this too:
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/elijah-moore-initial-impressions
"The Cleveland Browns have made no secret of the fact they wanted to add speed to this wide receiver group and the acquisition of Elijah Moore from the New York Jets also gives them a player that operates out of the slot, so the move hits on both points."
Hell, even the Browns agree with me, and I was saying it in 2020/2021/2022.
but no, you ran your supreme leader fake news fat mouth at me.
No one else had to respond because they didn't feel guilty.
got ya there, eh? I distinctly remember somebody telling me to STFU about a wr, our wr's are just fine.
no, they were not. The Browns know it. Sorry loser, you lose again.
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and one more thing, tiam -
Here is your own post from another thread: LOL
tiamat63
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- REGISTERED
- Gender:Male
7.1 YPT.
If you wanted a speed merchant who works the short to intermediate game, Moore appears to be that "classic" slot receiver.
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The #42 pick is gonzo, making the Jack Campbell vs Mazi Smith debate a moo point.
The #42 pick is gonzo, making the Jack Campbell vs Mazi Smith debate a moo point.
Still firmly in the realm of Daiyan Henley and a few other IDL, the other name being Benton that I had mentioned.
Of course, the Brownies might be content with what they have until day 3. Part of me almost expects that, and that'll they'll take a run at somebody like Keondre Coburn around then.
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The #42 pick is gonzo, making the Jack Campbell vs Mazi Smith debate a moo point.
Still firmly in the realm of Daiyan Henley and a few other IDL, the other name being Benton that I had mentioned.
Of course, the Brownies might be content with what they have until day 3. Part of me almost expects that, and that'll they'll take a run at somebody like Keondre Coburn around then.
Still firmly in the realm of Daiyan Henley and a few other IDL, the other name being Benton that I had mentioned.
Of course, the Brownies might be content with what they have until day 3. Part of me almost expects that, and that'll they'll take a run at somebody like Keondre Coburn around then.
Yes, the big mountain of a man from Wisconsin, I was the silly goose who asked you about him back in the day.
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Still firmly in the realm of Daiyan Henley and a few other IDL, the other name being Benton that I had mentioned.
Of course, the Brownies might be content with what they have until day 3. Part of me almost expects that, and that'll they'll take a run at somebody like Keondre Coburn around then.
Yes, the big mountain of a man from Wisconsin, I was the silly goose who asked you about him back in the day.
I was the silly goose
That'll never NOT make me think about South Park.
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Just 11 pages of smoke damage
Last draft season.. Martin Emerson was the browns 1st pick at pick #68
so what could be so bad about starting at pick #74 & keeping pick #98 ? ( I was trading #98 a 4th & 5th to get as high as pick #72 in draft sims)
still some gems that could be found.. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023
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Just 11 pages of smoke damage
Last draft season.. Martin Emerson was the browns 1st pick at pick #68
so what could be so bad about starting at pick #74 & keeping pick #98 ? ( I was trading #98 a 4th & 5th to get as high as pick #72 in draft sims)
still some gems that could be found.. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023
Just 11 pages of smoke damage
Last draft season.. Martin Emerson was the browns 1st pick at pick #68
so what could be so bad about starting at pick #74 & keeping pick #98 ? ( I was trading #98 a 4th & 5th to get as high as pick #72 in draft sims)
still some gems that could be found.. https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2023/consensus-big-board-2023
Yes, some gems can obviously be found in the later rounds, but the odds decline.
Eventually the Browns will find themselves cutting good players because of the cap, and they need to fill those spots with young, cheaper drafted players.
Starting in the third round in successive years is a tough way to ensure that. The problem is the current front office has to know that if they don't make the playoffs again this year, they won't have to worry about being in Cleveland in 2024.
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The #42 pick is gonzo, making the Jack Campbell vs Mazi Smith debate a moo point.
The #42 pick is gonzo, making the Jack Campbell vs Mazi Smith debate a moo point.
FWIW: Campbell still being mocked to us post Moore trade.
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Well now that RB D'Ernest Johnson has left the Browns we can be open to drafting one of the fastest RB's ever as BPA. Who you ask? Why none other than .....................................wait for it..................................?
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Want to see a little stamina? How about 200m?
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I was the silly goose
That'll never NOT make me think about South Park.
That'll never NOT make me think about South Park.
"
Brian Meany says:Watson is a serial sexual deviant. That the Browns sold there soul to get in bed with him is…well so Brownish of them.
You got what you paid for…a average QB with massive personal problems.
The future is not so bright for the Browns." -
I'm not sure what is funnier.
1. How triggered cal is now
2. How desperate cal is to "get even" with tia because of this
3. How obvious it is that tia doesn't care
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I'm not sure what is funnier.
1. How triggered cal is now
2. How desperate cal is to "get even" with tia because of this
3. How obvious it is that tia doesn't care
I'm not sure what is funnier.
1. How triggered cal is now
2. How desperate cal is to "get even" with tia because of this
3. How obvious it is that tia doesn't care
Careful now. You're about to get spammed with 4 straight messages answered by no one other than cal. LOL! Modus Operandi.
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The database did update some possible new targets at each pick..
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/nfl-draft-targets-2023?team=CLE not to exclude some others..
Felt bad for the USC player that tore his ACL at the Combine.. but, to fall from a late 1st round pick into the 3rd-4th round?
IOL | USC -
Take good info from anywhere.. who needs linemen?
Two mid-round Tackles to look further into( Wills ).. to big Blake Freeland & Carter Warren ?
See bottom of this link, to check out many on tape & Player Profiles..
https://steelersdepot.com/2023/03/2023-nfl-draft-player-profiles-byu-ot-blake-freeland/
edit 3-25- updated guardrails board
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Just went grocery shopping and stumbled upon a trusty Lindy's Pro Football Draft Guide.
Let the mock draft shenanigans begin! ?
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Just went grocery shopping and stumbled upon a trusty Lindy's Pro Football Draft Guide.
Let the mock draft shenanigans begin! ?
Just went grocery shopping and stumbled upon a trusty Lindy's Pro Football Draft Guide.
Let the mock draft shenanigans begin! ?
Nice! Looking forward to it!!!
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Dutch Oven's Not-So-Super Duper Mock Draft 1.0
3rd Round (#74): LB Jack Campbell, Iowa 6'4", 248lbs
Built like a traditional middle linebacker, he's got the strength to anchor the inside of the defense, and is surprisingly nimble for a man his size. I'd have no problem with LB Daiyan Henley here either.
3rd Round (#98): DT Keeanu Benton, Wisconsin 6'4", 312lbsGreat physical tools should make him an asset vs the run, has the potential to give you something in pass rush department too.
4th Round: (#111) OT Braeden Daniels, Utah 6'4, 298lbs
Very experienced (43 college starts) and played multiple positions. Good upside, needs to gain weight/strength.
4th Round (#126): TE Zack Kuntz, Old Dominion 6'8", 250lbsAmazing catch radius, athleticism and a potential match-up nightmare. Like Daniels, needs to hit a NFL workout room because he would be woefully inadequate at this time trying to block as an in-line TE. Worth the draft pick on the potential jersey sales alone.
5th Round (#140): OG Matthew Bergeron, Syracuse 6'5", 324lbs
Experienced as a college tackle, he projects as a guard for a zone-heavy team that values athletic movers on the inside. Versatile potential starter.
5th Round (#142): DE Eku Leota, Auburn 6'3", 260lbs
Long build for his height, he has a good combination of strength and quickness to be able to set the edge. Good motor, hard worker who graduated college in three years. Comp was Cincinnati's Sam Hubbard.
6th Round (#190): WR Dontay Demus Jr, Maryland 6'3", 213lbs
Athletic big bodied WR who was recovering from a knee injury. His ability to high-point the ball is his elite skill. Solid blocker.7th Round (#229): RB Evan Hull, Northwestern 5'10" 210lbs
Mediocre athlete, but a tough kid who can catch the ball out of the backfield with the best of them.
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Here it is. I used the projected rounds on the draft prospects as a template.
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