2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects
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You are not the only one noticing him. Recently jumped 70 places to #127 on Draftek's BB. And that's about as late as he gets projected. Others already have him as a rnd 3 pick.
Similar players (on paper) projected to be available around that time are: Tank Bigsby (Auburn), Kendre Miller (TCU) and Kenny McIntosh (Georgia).
If none of those tickle your fancy, we may have to go the Isiah Pacheco late round gem route.
And they have moved Achane up to #49 (mid 2nd round), but in their mock draft have him going to Miami in the 3rd @ # 84 after the Browns pick in the DL. Very strange.
And they have moved Achane up to #49 (mid 2nd round), but in their mock draft have him going to Miami in the 3rd @ # 84 after the Browns pick in the DL. Very strange.
In most of the online mocks I've done so far, you see valued positions that are considered less deep being reached for. DT especially, but also O-line. Positions that are considered deep like Edge and WR tend to fall down the order.
In the case of RBs, they are not valued as much, and while only Bijan Robinson is considered elite, there are a good two dozen that could go anywhere from late day 2 to day 3. Fairly deep in that sense. I think that's why they fall down the order too.
Current watch(ed) list as of this morning.
RB - Deneric Prince - X UDFA
Roschon Johnson - * Day 3 (early?)
Zach Evans - X Day 3 (later)
Kendre Miller - X Day 3
Sean Tucker - * Late Day 2, early Day 3?edit: Adding Devon Archane per the last conversation
Devon Archane - * Day 3
X = pass
* = Willing to draft
May I ask why Sean Tucker pleases you? From what I've read, he is a speed back undersized in both height and frame, with good hands that make him a receiving option. Sounds like Demetric Felton 2.0 to me, and we already have 1.0 under contract. That's why I've regularly passed on him in my online mocks.
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Off Topic: Hey guys I just posted a thread in the Barber Shop section and just wanted to mention it here where most of us click so it might get seen more.... Thanks in advance for looking and any insight you can give.
Off Topic: Hey guys I just posted a thread in the Barber Shop section and just wanted to mention it here where most of us click so it might get seen more.... Thanks in advance for looking and any insight you can give.
There's a Barbershop section?
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And they have moved Achane up to #49 (mid 2nd round), but in their mock draft have him going to Miami in the 3rd @ # 84 after the Browns pick in the DL. Very strange.
In most of the online mocks I've done so far, you see valued positions that are considered less deep being reached for. DT especially, but also O-line. Positions that are considered deep like Edge and WR tend to fall down the order.
In the case of RBs, they are not valued as much, and while only Bijan Robinson is considered elite, there are a good two dozen that could go anywhere from late day 2 to day 3. Fairly deep in that sense. I think that's why they fall down the order too.
Current watch(ed) list as of this morning.
RB - Deneric Prince - X UDFA
Roschon Johnson - * Day 3 (early?)
Zach Evans - X Day 3 (later)
Kendre Miller - X Day 3
Sean Tucker - * Late Day 2, early Day 3?edit: Adding Devon Archane per the last conversation
Devon Archane - * Day 3
X = pass
* = Willing to draft
May I ask why Sean Tucker pleases you? From what I've read, he is a speed back undersized in both height and frame, with good hands that make him a receiving option. Sounds like Demetric Felton 2.0 to me, and we already have 1.0 under contract. That's why I've regularly passed on him in my online mocks.
May I ask why Sean Tucker pleases you? From what I've read, he is a speed back undersized in both height and frame, with good hands that make him a receiving option. Sounds like Demetric Felton 2.0 to me, and we already have 1.0 under contract. That's why I've regularly passed on him in my online mocks.
As long as you never phrase it like that again.
He's undersized in the fact that he isn't 5'11 225lbs. But he isn't undersized in the way of Felton. 5'9 3/4 and 210lbs is pretty solid. What I like
- Built low, runs low.
- Good burst, good top end. Decent lateral movement to win the edge.
- Shows some patience on the interior game
- Good hole press with his eyes, shoulders and feet.
- Ball security doesn't appear to be an issue.
- Quality hands in the screen and checkdown game, then turning it into YAC.
I don't see any elite qualities, but I see one's where I can get a productive back late that can handle all of the same responsibilities as Chubb on 10 to 12 touches. And the flashes of what I see indicate the more subtle nuances and tools of RB are there, meaning coach Stump will get the most out of those types of picks.
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The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.
Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody
Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th round pick
Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..? next man up to get some reps
Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 ?
I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.
Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody
Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th round pick
Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..? next man up to get some reps
Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 ?
I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after
The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.
Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody
Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th rd pick
Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..? next man up to get some reps
Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 ?
I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after
I'm fine with Ford being the next man up. Ford scored 20 TDs as the #1 prong of attack for a team team that made the BCS playoffs for the 1st time. I posted about this somewhere else and shared highlights of his final season at the U of Cincy. The guy he reminded me a lot of coming out of college is Kareem Hunt.
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The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.
Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody
Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th round pick
Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..? next man up to get some reps
Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 ?
I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after
The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.
Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody
Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th round pick
Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..? next man up to get some reps
Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 ?
I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after
I don't care about the height so much. I do like speed with a thick build. In other words, a guy 5'8" can be 185 lbs. If a guy looks frail, he probably is.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Ford also didn't get as much college usage as some of these multi-year starters even though he was just as high of a prospect. Hopefully Ford will have a longer RB career than others.
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The Browns used a 3rd round pick #77 to draft RB Duke Johnson in 2015..combine 5'9' 209 lbs ran 4.54.. was not the most durable running inside.
Kareem Hunt was another 3rd round pick at #86. 5'10 216 lbs with a 4.62/40.. hair on fire, scared of nobody
Demetric Felton was the same combine height as Duke/ a tick slower at pro day 4.55 & only weighing in at 189 lbs... a 6th round pick
Jerome Ford was a 5th round pick at 5'10" 209 lbs that ran a 4.46..? next man up to get some reps
Beast Nick Chubb... 5' 11" 227 lbs moving at 4.52 ?
I'd like to see Berry stay at 5'10" / 2 bills plus lbs... 4th round or after
I don't care about the height so much. I do like speed with a thick build. In other words, a guy 5'8" can be 185 lbs. If a guy looks frail, he probably is.
I don't care about the height so much. I do like speed with a thick build.
Calm down there, Elton. ?
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Zach Evans, RB Ole Miss.
Solid build, probably room for more quality mass. I like his straight line speed, has a little lateral shake to him, but not enough to gut anybody when he's met in a gap. A willing blocker if unspectacular and appears to catch well enough out of the backfield. At times I question his vision in both right to left cut flow and his eyes/anticipation to 2nd level defenders. I say that because he tends to cut late, hug almost too close to his blockers and either getting his footwork messed up, tripped or ending up in the back of his lineman. When he does, I give him credit for being strong, moving bodies, and fighting to gain positive yards; but that won't hold up at the NFL. Those late decisions, late recognition, will slow down his ability to get beyond the LoS taking less contact than what he should have. While he isn't as bad Deneric Prince, he still tries to go full zoom behind the LoS and losses his patience on multiple occasions, Also tends to run a bit high and in front of his pads... generally another sign of just wanting to sprint to the hole.
Can't see him as anything ahead of a mid to late Day 3 pick. I'd rather the Browns pass on him (for now)
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Please don't ask that. He's been my favorite player since he got here. He's a throwback to the type of player that I grew up with. Score a great touchdown, hand the ball to the official. - Please don't do that to me.
you mean like this guy he either drops the ball or hands it to the ref oh if you do watch he is a two way player qb fb lb and has a 6th or 7th round draft status
you mean like this guy he either drops the ball or hands it to the ref oh if you do watch he is a two way player qb fb lb and has a 6th or 7th round draft status
again this guy played fb,lb,te a very versatile player that Berry likes to draft and would fit right in special teams oh and did i mention he could be are emergency qb ?
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A couple of things on the upcoming draft for the Browns.
https://theathletic.com/4350629/2023/04/13/cleveland-browns-nfl-draft-picks-needs-predictions-guide/
EDIT-Browns met with Florida's DT Gervon Dexter yesterday in pre-draft interview.
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How much stock do you guys put into combine results? Both on how you see players, and your expectation where they are drafted.
Some examples for discussion:
Siaki Ika, DL, Baylor was brought to the table by @dutch-oven and @tiamat63, but had a pretty terrible combine. Scored in the lowest percentiles historically for his position for the 40, 10, 3 cone and shuttle. Arguably not the most relevant to DL, but still indicative of lacking athleticism. Bench press could have redeemed all that in my view, but he did not participate. It is almost like he couldn't be bothered.
That said, this class is so lacking in quality interior guys, that he barely slid on big boards. But what do we think? He should be available late in the 2nd, where we can realistically trade up to. Would definitely fill a need for us, but is he still the right guy? Is it a matter of combine be damned, he has the size and shown in college that he knows how to use it?
Andre Carter II, EDGE/ LB Army got quite the hype train going around him before the combine, and I was aboard for the ride. Billed as a "hyper athlete" who's only weakness was supposed to be a lack of mass due to Army regulations. Something easily fixed in a pro weight room, combined with frequent trips to Chick-Fil-A. He also put up stellar numbers as a junior in 2021, before seeing teams make adjustments specifically for him in 2022.
But the combine came, where he put up godawful numbers in anything but the 3 cone. Godawful, meaning single digit percentiles in the 40 and bench. The very opposite of an actual hyper athlete like Miles, who performed in the upper 90 percentiles. To my surprise, he has not dropped much on most big boards, and is projected late 2nd, early 3rd. I have cooled on him to the point I would barely spend a late rounder on him.
Yaya Diaby, EDGE, Louisville on the other hand did put up Myles' numbers. To my astonishment, this has barely moved the needle on many boards. On PPF for example, he falls outside their top 150, making him a mid 5th pick at best. I would consider him in the 3rd and jump at the chance to draft him in the 4th, but fear he may be gone much earlier. Am I putting too much stock in his combine performance?
Blake Freeland, OT, BYU also put up elite numbers in the 40, broad, and set a new Combine record for offensive linemen with a vertical jump of 37 inches. He is still projected as a 3rd, or early 4th pick. Given the utter disappointment that is Jedrick Wills, and Conklin being made out of glass, he would seem to be a great addition for us where he is projected. Again, I fear he may be gone much sooner.
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How much stock do you guys put into combine results? Both on how you see players, and your expectation where they are drafted.
Some examples for discussion:
Siaki Ika, DL, Baylor was brought to the table by @dutch-oven and @tiamat63, but had a pretty terrible combine. Scored in the lowest percentiles historically for his position for the 40, 10, 3 cone and shuttle. Arguably not the most relevant to DL, but still indicative of lacking athleticism. Bench press could have redeemed all that in my view, but he did not participate. It is almost like he couldn't be bothered.
That said, this class is so lacking in quality interior guys, that he barely slid on big boards. But what do we think? He should be available late in the 2nd, where we can realistically trade up to. Would definitely fill a need for us, but is he still the right guy? Is it a matter of combine be damned, he has the size and shown in college that he knows how to use it?
Andre Carter II, EDGE/ LB Army got quite the hype train going around him before the combine, and I was aboard for the ride. Billed as a "hyper athlete" who's only weakness was supposed to be a lack of mass due to Army regulations. Something easily fixed in a pro weight room, combined with frequent trips to Chick-Fil-A. He also put up stellar numbers as a junior in 2021, before seeing teams make adjustments specifically for him in 2022.
But the combine came, where he put up godawful numbers in anything but the 3 cone. Godawful, meaning single digit percentiles in the 40 and bench. The very opposite of an actual hyper athlete like Miles, who performed in the upper 90 percentiles. To my surprise, he has not dropped much on most big boards, and is projected late 2nd, early 3rd. I have cooled on him to the point I would barely spend a late rounder on him.
Yaya Diaby, EDGE, Louisville on the other hand did put up Myles' numbers. To my astonishment, this has barely moved the needle on many boards. On PPF for example, he falls outside their top 150, making him a mid 5th pick at best. I would consider him in the 3rd and jump at the chance to draft him in the 4th, but fear he may be gone much earlier. Am I putting too much stock in his combine performance?
Blake Freeland, OT, BYU also put up elite numbers in the 40, broad, and set a new Combine record for offensive linemen with a vertical jump of 37 inches. He is still projected as a 3rd, or early 4th pick. Given the utter disappointment that is Jedrick Wills, and Conklin being made out of glass, he would seem to be a great addition for us where he is projected. Again, I fear he may be gone much sooner.
How much stock do you guys put into combine results? Both on how you see players, and your expectation where they are drafted.
Some examples for discussion:
Siaki Ika, DL, Baylor was brought to the table by @dutch-oven and @tiamat63, but had a pretty terrible combine. Scored in the lowest percentiles historically for his position for the 40, 10, 3 cone and shuttle. Arguably not the most relevant to DL, but still indicative of lacking athleticism. Bench press could have redeemed all that in my view, but he did not participate. It is almost like he couldn't be bothered.
That said, this class is so lacking in quality interior guys, that he barely slid on big boards. But what do we think? He should be available late in the 2nd, where we can realistically trade up to. Would definitely fill a need for us, but is he still the right guy? Is it a matter of combine be damned, he has the size and shown in college that he knows how to use it?
Andre Carter II, EDGE/ LB Army got quite the hype train going around him before the combine, and I was aboard for the ride. Billed as a "hyper athlete" who's only weakness was supposed to be a lack of mass due to Army regulations. Something easily fixed in a pro weight room, combined with frequent trips to Chick-Fil-A. He also put up stellar numbers as a junior in 2021, before seeing teams make adjustments specifically for him in 2022.
But the combine came, where he put up godawful numbers in anything but the 3 cone. Godawful, meaning single digit percentiles in the 40 and bench. The very opposite of an actual hyper athlete like Miles, who performed in the upper 90 percentiles. To my surprise, he has not dropped much on most big boards, and is projected late 2nd, early 3rd. I have cooled on him to the point I would barely spend a late rounder on him.
Yaya Diaby, EDGE, Louisville on the other hand did put up Myles' numbers. To my astonishment, this has barely moved the needle on many boards. On PPF for example, he falls outside their top 150, making him a mid 5th pick at best. I would consider him in the 3rd and jump at the chance to draft him in the 4th, but fear he may be gone much earlier. Am I putting too much stock in his combine performance?
Blake Freeland, OT, BYU also put up elite numbers in the 40, broad, and set a new Combine record for offensive linemen with a vertical jump of 37 inches. He is still projected as a 3rd, or early 4th pick. Given the utter disappointment that is Jedrick Wills, and Conklin being made out of glass, he would seem to be a great addition for us where he is projected. Again, I fear he may be gone much sooner.
Combine, at least for myself, is an exhibition to demonstrate athletes I might not have previously been aware of or had the chance to watch during the season. There are certain drills which are position specific that I tend to be cognizant of - 10 yard split, 3 cone and sometimes vertical. What I also keep an eye out for, Dline specific, is height, weight, arm length and wingspan. 40 time is also something that I don't treat as gospel. But what I ultimately need is film that supports or detracts from the combine to reach a conclusion. You look like trash when the tape rolls? Then you're a combine warrior, and we've seen those time and time again. Tape looks good, competition looks good? I can overlook not being the best athlete for your position group then. The example I circle back around to both personally and then another collegiately ---> pro... A kid I played DB with in high school was a tremendous athlete and went on to play LB at Kent State. Because, despite being 6'1 210lbs, really didn't have the eyes, hips and processing skills for the position. I watched Taylor Mays at USC back in the day be an absolute freak of nature athletically. He played DB under Pete Carroll, then had to switch to LB and special teams only to be out of the league in a few short years after being drafted top 50. So all that combine ability didn't amount to on field production come game time.
Food for thought. There is no science to it, but it's far more rare for a athlete to look like trash on the all-22 but find production in the NFL as opposed to someone who didn't test as athletic but passes the eye test.
RE: I haven't gotten around to Andre Carter, but at 6'7 260lbs, he looked out of place playing as a 2pt edge for Army. He has athletic gifts but he's a large coaching project. I look for 10 yard split, vertical and some 3 cone/shuttle. The reason I say 'some' is because I'm looking for how that initial lateral burst and hip sink looks in both drills. The constant stop/start doesn't interest me along the defensive front.
My thoughts on Diaby have already been posted here... 9th one down.
So with Siaki, the vertical test itself is tough because big men like him don't get height in jumping. So the 10 yard split and, again, those initial moves on the 3 cone and shuttle can be a big tell. Bench is also a 'meh'. Remember, Tommy Togiai had a monster bench. While he's solid facing teams that run a lot of gap/power, such as a Ravens; He's a complete liability against zone heavy teams, such as the falcons, because he lacks height, wingspan and lateral to vertical burst.
Re: Freeman. 40 means jackshit to me. He can run like the wind, but if his footwork and handstrike while in pass pro are questionable, then being an athlete is negated by lack of technique. Conversely, if he's an athlete who can be coached and consistently retain good technique, then the athletic ability now becomes a huge plus.
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Thanks for the insight @tiamat63. Amazing to read that Diaby has a slow first step, considering his combine performance. Good example how it doesn't necessarily translate to on field performance I guess.
I am still doing mocks and trading up to #62 to see who potentially falls in our lap.
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Regarding Army's Andre Carter, is he allowed to immediately play in the NFL?
I know back in the day if you played for one of the service academies you had to fulfill a stretch with them before being allowed to go to the NFL.
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Thanks for the insight @tiamat63. Amazing to read that Diaby has a slow first step, considering his combine performance. Good example how it doesn't necessarily translate to on field performance I guess.
I am still doing mocks and trading up to #62 to see who potentially falls in our lap.
Thanks for the insight @tiamat63. Amazing to read that Diaby has a slow first step, considering his combine performance. Good example how it doesn't necessarily translate to on field performance I guess.
I am still doing mocks and trading up to #62 to see who potentially falls in our lap.
Keep in mind, 'slow first step' looks different on the field for various reasons as opposed to the more controlled environment that is athletic testing at the combine.
Could be a reactionary issue that causes him being behind. Could be an assignment issue, such as 2 gapping (which I believe I mentioned when he's at the 4tech). Diaby's issues looked like assignment and take-off technique.
I'm sure Diaby worked on his running form specifically to improve his combine numbers, flying out of a stance/chalk takes work. Tightening up his footwork and upper body movement will help those drills, but will they carry over to the field when so much more goes into being a pass rusher? Because once his stance and get off are fixed, now you get into the real technique of being a pass rusher - hand/foot sync, knee bend, hip/center of gravity drop and placement, minimizing contact area, developing consistency to win the edge THEN developing a counter move to combat facing more athletic pass protectors.
The combine is sort of like studying for a test where half of what you're studying isn't on the test; and then you get a job only to find you should have been working on other material the entire time.
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Regarding Army's Andre Carter, is he allowed to immediately play in the NFL?
I know back in the day if you played for one of the service academies you had to fulfill a stretch with them before being allowed to go to the NFL.
Regarding Army's Andre Carter, is he allowed to immediately play in the NFL?
I know back in the day if you played for one of the service academies you had to fulfill a stretch with them before being allowed to go to the NFL.
I believe there's a deferment process available for service academies now.
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Less than two weeks to go to the Draft!
The excitement on here is palpable! PALPABLE I SAY!
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