Great Master Plan, "Mangenius"
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Since we're quoting from other threads, I'll throw one of my old questions on here:
Will Quinn be completely up to speed in week two, after having come in and out every week, working 50/50 with the first team in practice, and not taking a snap in the last game? If not, then what is gained? Even if the Vikings had to completely scrap their defensive gameplan--and they clearly don't--which is the greater disadvantage, having to adjust some of your coverage schemes, or having about a week's worth of practice as the uncontested starter at the most important position on the team?
Dennis
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It's easy to second guess now. Mangini and Kokinis have to manage a roster of 53. As well as the contract for each. They do have a responsibility to maintain an investment the Browns had put in DA.
True. DA's contract wasn't their idea. Savage saw fit to drop a pile of Randy Lerner's money in DA's pocket. The succeeding regime still has to do a reasonable job of protecting that investment.
What would you say DA's trade value is now as compared to when the 08 season ended ? Be honest. It's still a game and a business. All kinds of crazy things happen in the first four weeks of the NFL season.
If Anderson is traded, the value will still be there. He'll still be a viable starting QB. He's marketable again. Someone will call. Bravo Kokgini. Good luck Derek.
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I dont think both QBs taking snaps with the first team is ever a bad thing because DA is only one play away from starting and that was one of crennels biggest weaknesses was a lack of preparation from all the backups because we just dont know when someone is going to get hurt...
I didnt really agree with the secret agent man stuff but it does show us that mangini is competitive enough to grasp at even the smallest mental advantage over his opponent and i do admire that about him...i think childress's statements reflect that frustration more than people think...
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Since we're quoting from other threads, I'll throw one of my old questions on here:
Will Quinn be completely up to speed in week two, after having come in and out every week, working 50/50 with the first team in practice, and not taking a snap in the last game? If not, then what is gained? Even if the Vikings had to completely scrap their defensive gameplan--and they clearly don't--which is the greater disadvantage, having to adjust some of your coverage schemes, or having about a week's worth of practice as the uncontested starter at the most important position on the team?
Dennis
Since we're quoting from other threads, I'll throw one of my old questions on here:
Will Quinn be completely up to speed in week two, after having come in and out every week, working 50/50 with the first team in practice, and not taking a snap in the last game? If not, then what is gained? Even if the Vikings had to completely scrap their defensive gameplan--and they clearly don't--which is the greater disadvantage, having to adjust some of your coverage schemes, or having about a week's worth of practice as the uncontested starter at the most important position on the team?
Dennis
Professional athletes are paid a lot of money. They better be prepared to play at anytime. I think the only bad thing about not divulging who would be the starting QB is fan reaction. The fans pay a lot of money to go to games and buy the outrageously priced hot dogs, soda and beer. Football is entertainment. The players are entertainers. You have to please the fan base. Winning will obviously please us. Lets hope Mangini can win. If not, he is in for a rough tour here.
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They're talking about BQ being the starting QB for us on fcuking U.S Open coverage.
You sacrificed 1st team reps for NOTHING other than your ego.
It also appears that you don't have as much control over your players as you think you do.
Your "competitive advantage" (if you ever even had one, as the entire league had Quinn pegged as the starter last week) just got flushed.
So, what exactly was it again that you were attempting to accomplish with your short bus car show?
They're talking about BQ being the starting QB for us on fcuking U.S Open coverage.
You sacrificed 1st team reps for NOTHING other than your ego.
LOL! Love the intensity Timugen. Seriously though, I wouldn't look at it like ALL the columnists want to look at it. ZERO was sacrificed with the first team if the end result of this is finding the RIGHT first team QB in training camp/preseason. Equal reps, equal situations means better apples to apples and our first look at a REAL QB competition. I encourage you to LIKE that Mangini GETS the importance of finding the right guy. Sounds to me like reps have been split since the May OTA's, which is sufficient time for both QBs. Preseason and training camp officially ended with the inception of this week's game plans.
The starting QB every regular season game week gets more reps with the first string beginning on Tuesday/Wednesday. This week was no different. Film has been studied - specific game plans are underway and the media's job is to report Quinn vrs DA 24/7 while Mangini's job is the Minnesota Vikings. The decision is over.
As for the alleged Mangini SECRET - who here believes that he really expected it to remain a secret when he hinted - the starting QB will begin the day taking snaps from center in the first O tomorrow. The media's job is Quinn vrs DA as the bulk of our subject headings this year would support such a thing. However, Mangini's job is the Browns vrs Vikings. Part of being a BB disciple is to remain unclear about injuries in the media and play guessing games regarding key starters.
As a fan, I think Mangini has approached this the way he needs to; because the instant something goes wrong - he doesn't have to hear 1 guy didn't get the SAME chance as the other. And even BETTER, if there's injury or disappointment - the next guy has enough reps with the first unit to where it won't be a culture shock for anyone in the offense. The media? That's another story. They'll compete for best spin on what he's doing wrong from where they scribble. They're already doing it as we can see.
- Tom F.
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They're talking about BQ being the starting QB for us on fcuking U.S Open coverage.
You sacrificed 1st team reps for NOTHING other than your ego.
It also appears that you don't have as much control over your players as you think you do.
Your "competitive advantage" (if you ever even had one, as the entire league had Quinn pegged as the starter last week) just got flushed.
So, what exactly was it again that you were attempting to accomplish with your short bus car show?
They're talking about BQ being the starting QB for us on fcuking U.S Open coverage.
You sacrificed 1st team reps for NOTHING other than your ego.
It also appears that you don't have as much control over your players as you think you do.
Your "competitive advantage" (if you ever even had one, as the entire league had Quinn pegged as the starter last week) just got flushed.
So, what exactly was it again that you were attempting to accomplish with your short bus car show?
I wouldn't say it was for nothing and did we really give up reps??
This thing wasn't won until a day or so ago, and from what I have read BQ has been out front since the word came down who won.
Maybe you should apply to be a head coach somewhere since you seem to think you have it all figured out.
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I don't get the hostility over this issue.
Watched a "One on One" show, with Mangini as the guest.
He said his first idea about the drafting of any player, is he wants
to know his character, intelligence, team-oriented or not, love of the game...
THEN he looks at physical characteristics.
THAT is a HUGE breath of fresh air.
As far as the secret goes, Mangini scattered the players around the locker room, wanting
them all to know each other, avoid cliques, and be a TEAM.
As far as keeping the starting qb a secret? Is fantasy football that much a driving force or what?
Having that secret is just another "we're all in this boat together, here's the plan, we're going to float it
as a team" thing.
Every single time I listen to Mangini behind the scenes, I'm seriously impressed.
No more predictability. He even knows HOW TO SET UP AND RUN A FREAKIN SCREEN PLAY !
The anger/anguish over who wins the starting qb job? I don't get it. And Minn. wishes they hadn't
had to plan for both. That's two defensive game plans, and now they choose just one, but the other
defensive game plan still took up time.
Take it easy, folks. The Mangini coaches are the real deal, I think, and FINALLY we won't have the same
old questions and disgust at seeing the same boring, elementary, unimaginative running of our Browns.
I predict a trick play from the beginning by the offense, to set the tone and get the Minn. defense
thinking "crap, we're going to have our hands full today".
We'll see.
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Since we're quoting from other threads, I'll throw one of my old questions on here:
Will Quinn be completely up to speed in week two, after having come in and out every week, working 50/50 with the first team in practice, and not taking a snap in the last game? If not, then what is gained? Even if the Vikings had to completely scrap their defensive gameplan--and they clearly don't--which is the greater disadvantage, having to adjust some of your coverage schemes, or having about a week's worth of practice as the uncontested starter at the most important position on the team?
Dennis
Since we're quoting from other threads, I'll throw one of my old questions on here:
Will Quinn be completely up to speed in week two, after having come in and out every week, working 50/50 with the first team in practice, and not taking a snap in the last game? If not, then what is gained? Even if the Vikings had to completely scrap their defensive gameplan--and they clearly don't--which is the greater disadvantage, having to adjust some of your coverage schemes, or having about a week's worth of practice as the uncontested starter at the most important position on the team?
Dennis
But but but
The advantage gained from the Vikings having to waste a whole TWO days preparing for two QBs has to be huge.
Even if that were huge, how does that help us next week and the week after? We get a one week 'advantage' possibly offset by the fact our starter didn't get all the reps; a disadvantage that may carry additional weeks.
Maybe Mangini figures they've gotten as many reps as needed.
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Ballpeen,
After preseason game 3, Mangini said they knew who the starter was and that it was settled. If it hadn't been settled, do you think both of these guys would have sat out for game 4?
Choco, we're all so glad you have such good commentary to add to the thread. Since you show up in every thread calling the poster a 'whiny bitch' while you act like a whiny bitch by complaining about them starting a new thread...maybe you should take your own advice and STFU.
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@jadbf said:
Props to Mangini!How much press do you think this 4-12 team with a new coach would have gotten had this whole "QB controversy" wasn't covered?
PR GENIUS I am telling you.
Not only that. but.
"LOOK LOOK LOOK AT THE QBs! Whos tanking the snaps? who's the starter? what's going on?"
and yet not much talk about the rest of the team where his real decision making will affect this team much more than who starts at QB.
Mis-direction, head games, all with probably a laugh in his private moments.
Eric Mangini I salute you.
Before Favor coming back and this charade that was played out, the Browns were not on anybodies radar about anything.
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@jadbf said:
Props to Mangini!How much press do you think this 4-12 team with a new coach would have gotten had this whole "QB controversy" wasn't covered?
PR GENIUS I am telling you.
Not only that. but.
"LOOK LOOK LOOK AT THE QBs! Whos tanking the snaps? who's the starter? what's going on?"
and yet not much talk about the rest of the team where his real decision making will affect this team much more than who starts at QB.
Mis-direction, head games, all with probably a laugh in his private moments.
Eric Mangini I salute you.
Don't forget... the media members are entirely focused on Mangini. There's a media storm brewing, and there's no one's talking pass rush, run stopping... no one's got a mic in Shaun Rogers' face, Kam Wimbley, nothing.
Mangini has managed to make himself the entire focus of what would normally be distracting Week 1 media coverage... asking players to make ridiculous, unfounded predictions, "Have you improved to the run defense?"
Mangini's little "pay no attention (or rather, 'only' pay attention) to the man behind the curtain" act has allowed the Cleveland Browns players to get up in the morning, get their work in, and prep for Sunday in relative peace and quiet, if not complete anonymity.
Oh, and whether or not the Vikings "knew" Quinn was going to be the starter... I guarantee you they've got a 5 page tip sheet on Anderson. Somebody had to prepare it. And there's no way to get that time back. That's time that could've been used on something else. Defensive coordinators don't guess. They work on contingencies.
-jj
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Ballpeen,
After preseason game 3, Mangini said they knew who the starter was and that it was settled. If it hadn't been settled, do you think both of these guys would have sat out for game 4?
Choco, we're all so glad you have such good commentary to add to the thread. Since you show up in every thread calling the poster a 'whiny bitch' while you act like a whiny bitch by complaining about them starting a new thread...maybe you should take your own advice and STFU.
Ballpeen,
After preseason game 3, Mangini said they knew who the starter was and that it was settled. If it hadn't been settled, do you think both of these guys would have sat out for game 4?
Choco, we're all so glad you have such good commentary to add to the thread. Since you show up in every thread calling the poster a 'whiny bitch' while you act like a whiny bitch by complaining about them starting a new thread...maybe you should take your own advice and STFU.
I do agree you have a bit of a point, but the 4th game is the game you play the bubble guys. Giving each of Quinn and Anderson a series each wouldn't have helped them all that much.
I really don't think game 4 would have made any difference in how well Brady...or Derick if he had won, would play this season.
One more series isn't going to help in knowing the playbook or getting the timing down if it isn't already there.
JMO
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@jadbf said:
Props to Mangini!How much press do you think this 4-12 team with a new coach would have gotten had this whole "QB controversy" wasn't covered?
PR GENIUS I am telling you.
Not only that. but.
"LOOK LOOK LOOK AT THE QBs! Whos tanking the snaps? who's the starter? what's going on?"
and yet not much talk about the rest of the team where his real decision making will affect this team much more than who starts at QB.
Mis-direction, head games, all with probably a laugh in his private moments.
Eric Mangini I salute you.
Don't forget... the media members are entirely focused on Mangini. There's a media storm brewing, and there's no one's talking pass rush, run stopping... no one's got a mic in Shaun Rogers' face, Kam Wimbley, nothing.
Mangini has managed to make himself the entire focus of what would normally be distracting Week 1 media coverage... asking players to make ridiculous, unfounded predictions, "Have you improved to the run defense?"
Mangini's little "pay no attention (or rather, 'only' pay attention) to the man behind the curtain" act has allowed the Cleveland Browns players to get up in the morning, get their work in, and prep for Sunday in relative peace and quiet, if not complete anonymity.
Oh, and whether or not the Vikings "knew" Quinn was going to be the starter... I guarantee you they've got a 5 page tip sheet on Anderson. Somebody had to prepare it. And there's no way to get that time back. That's time that could've been used on something else. Defensive coordinators don't guess. They work on contingencies.
-jj
Defensive coordinators don't guess. They work on contingencies.
-jj
Exactly...and the reason why they would have the "tip' sheet anyway. The Vikings didn't care who the QB might be because at least at this point, preparing for Quinn or DA doesn't require much difference in the plan.
Now....if we start Cribbs at QB...that would throw the Vikings for a loop that would make them scramble a bit.
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@jadbf said:
Props to Mangini!How much press do you think this 4-12 team with a new coach would have gotten had this whole "QB controversy" wasn't covered?
PR GENIUS I am telling you.
Not only that. but.
"LOOK LOOK LOOK AT THE QBs! Whos tanking the snaps? who's the starter? what's going on?"
and yet not much talk about the rest of the team where his real decision making will affect this team much more than who starts at QB.
Mis-direction, head games, all with probably a laugh in his private moments.
Eric Mangini I salute you.
My thoughts exactly. A PR genius move. Every day on ever sportscast on every network they are talking about The Cleveland Browns and their quarterback issue. This morning on Greenberg and Golic they even were talking about the fact that the Browns haven't named their starting center. If the Browns had announced weeks ago who their QB was to be you wouldn't have heard a peep out of these national talk shows about the Browns.
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Defensive coordinators don't guess. They work on contingencies.
-jj
Exactly...and the reason why they would have the "tip' sheet anyway. The Vikings didn't care who the QB might be because at least at this point, preparing for Quinn or DA doesn't require much difference in the plan.
Now....if we start Cribbs at QB...that would throw the Vikings for a loop that would make them scramble a bit.
Exactly...and the reason why they would have the "tip' sheet anyway. The Vikings didn't care who the QB might be because at least at this point, preparing for Quinn or DA doesn't require much difference in the plan.
Now....if we start Cribbs at QB...that would throw the Vikings for a loop that would make them scramble a bit.
I disagree... politely:-) Scrambler vs. pocket passer is an oversimplification... it's the kind of thing that a defensive lineman could begin and end with. "Can I lane rush, or do we have spy responsibilities?" As a matter of fact Mike Golic and Marcellus Wiley said as much on NFL Live a couple of days ago. "They're basically the same guy." Yeah, to a defensive lineman... defensive linemen don't have to change coverages like db's and lbs', or put in 20 hour days cutting tape like defensive assistants do (a group for whom I have a great deal of respect and sympathy).
But, a tip sheet (when done properly), will have everything. Vocal inflections, Does he stutter? What cadence does he use? Arm angle? What he does with his body when guys are around his feet? Or when guys are in his face? Does he tend to miss corner blitzes? More so from the right or left? What differentiates his pump fake motion from his actual throwing motion. What does he look like when he's locked on to a receiver vs. when he's manipulating the safety? And there are more and more and more. These are all in there.
Some of this stuff is legacy. You pull out the old sheet, look at the new film, and see what's changed. But and inter-conference opponent on opening day, and a quarterback with 27 starts? Trust me, the Vikings did not have a book on Derek Anderson. And they didn't have one on Quinn either. So why let them off the hook? Make them prepare for both guys.
And, while I understand the extension of the contingency principle applying to the backup quarterback... it's not usually the case. For instance, the Jags D probably didn't get a sheet on Jim Sorgi this week. And, if they did, it's a half page with his height, weight and birth date and says something like, "smart guy, average-to-below average arm, not a threat to run."
There are just too many other things to worry about and too little time to be working up a full dossier on the backup. You just don't do it, unless the starter is in doubt via injury or potential suspension or something. It's just not a priority. It's much more valuable to know that the left guard is tipping his pulls by cocking his heel, than it is to know what word the backup quarterback uses instead of "hut".
-jj
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Staying with Lason J's line of thinking, there's a lot of guys Minn. doesn't have a book on. Look at our rookies that we pretty much know will see the field Sunday.
I think the frustration comes from the fact that Mangini's the new guy. We don't know what he's doing because he won't say anything. If we see significant results by next year or the year after and he does this same stuff, then everyone will just think, "that's Mangini just doing his thing."
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Since we're quoting from other threads, I'll throw one of my old questions on here:
Will Quinn be completely up to speed in week two, after having come in and out every week, working 50/50 with the first team in practice, and not taking a snap in the last game? If not, then what is gained? Even if the Vikings had to completely scrap their defensive gameplan--and they clearly don't--which is the greater disadvantage, having to adjust some of your coverage schemes, or having about a week's worth of practice as the uncontested starter at the most important position on the team?
Dennis
Professional athletes are paid a lot of money. They better be prepared to play at anytime. I think the only bad thing about not divulging who would be the starting QB is fan reaction. The fans pay a lot of money to go to games and buy the outrageously priced hot dogs, soda and beer. Football is entertainment. The players are entertainers. You have to please the fan base. Winning will obviously please us. Lets hope Mangini can win. If not, he is in for a rough tour here.
Professional athletes are paid a lot of money. They better be prepared to play at anytime.
I understand what you're saying, and kind of agree, but that really isn't a valid argument. I'd counter by saying similarly-paid athletes who get MORE prep time will be better prepared than ones splitting snaps for no good reason.
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