● ? The Official 2024 NFL Draft ✔️ Day 3 Thread <-- RIGHT HERE <--
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Completely off topic, but I was given a month of free EA play. If anybody wants to get a game of Madden in - holla.
Completely off topic, but I was given a month of free EA play. If anybody wants to get a game of Madden in - holla.
Really?! My son-in-law is a programmer for EA. I'm gonna have to ask him if he can get me some free play on some of their stuff.
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Really?! My son-in-law is a programmer for EA. I'm gonna have to ask him if he can get me some free play on some of their stuff.
Tell him their game mechanics are trash and need to be fixed.
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How about Ohio State's TE Cade Stover reuniting with CJ Stroud in Houston?
Gumby celebrates his 61st birthday today ? I'm taking today off
Wo-men forget nothing... Deferring to Mary K Cabbage
Still absorbing it all in w/flight back to NC tonight. Check back in Monday, in short
Let's all agree, Berry/FO started & left this draft as the dead last team (32nd) in 2024 draft capital. Sure we can all second guess the picks... I had My moments...
Trade back little for Mike Hall or Junior Colson ?
LB Payton Wilson at 85? (local favorite goes to Shitz'burgh? ?)
Why take a 7th rd. corner,when 4 picks later, FSU TE Jaheim Bell may fill a higher depth need ?
Ya see? (take all your ? off)
Later studs !
Gumby celebrates his 61st birthday today ? I'm taking today off
Wo-men forget nothing... Deferring to Mary K Cabbage
Still absorbing it all in w/flight back to NC tonight. Check back in Monday, in short
Let's all agree, Berry/FO started & left this draft as the dead last team (32nd) in 2024 draft capital. Sure we can all second guess the picks... I had My moments...
Trade back little for Mike Hall or Junior Colson ?
LB Payton Wilson at 85? (local favorite goes to Shitz'burgh? ?)
Why take a 7th rd. corner,when 4 picks later, FSU TE Jaheim Bell may fill a higher depth need ?
Ya see? (take all your ? off)
Later studs !
Happy Birthday Old Man! We have plenty of time to talk about our draft - as long as we don't forget now that we're both in our early 60s.... Your buddy Flugel was Class of 82 (high school).
Wait til you see the film clip Syd shared about our last draft pick. Football Wood Factor: Balsa to Sequoia.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Really?! My son-in-law is a programmer for EA. I'm gonna have to ask him if he can get me some free play on some of their stuff.
Tell him their game mechanics are trash and need to be fixed.
Tell him their game mechanics are trash and need to be fixed.
Not that I have any idea what that means, but I will pass it on. Is it any particular type of games you are talking about? If he deals with those, it's something he can work on.
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Not that I have any idea what that means, but I will pass it on. Is it any particular type of games you are talking about? If he deals with those, it's something he can work on.
he is just pissed that he can not execute the triple option
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Gumby celebrates his 61st birthday today ? I'm taking today off
Wo-men forget nothing... Deferring to Mary K Cabbage
Still absorbing it all in w/flight back to NC tonight. Check back in Monday, in short
Let's all agree, Berry/FO started & left this draft as the dead last team (32nd) in 2024 draft capital. Sure we can all second guess the picks... I had My moments...
Trade back little for Mike Hall or Junior Colson ?
LB Payton Wilson at 85? (local favorite goes to Shitz'burgh? ?)
Why take a 7th rd. corner,when 4 picks later, FSU TE Jaheim Bell may fill a higher depth need ?
Ya see? (take all your ? off)
Later studs !
Happy Birthday Old Man! We have plenty of time to talk about our draft - as long as we don't forget now that we're both in our early 60s.... Your buddy Flugel was Class of 82 (high school).
Wait til you see the film clip Syd shared about our last draft pick. Football Wood Factor: Balsa to Sequoia.
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Not that I have any idea what that means, but I will pass it on. Is it any particular type of games you are talking about? If he deals with those, it's something he can work on.
Honestly I'm just fucking with you. I don't play anywhere near enough anymore to justify giving suggestions. I hoped on Madden for the first time in 5 years and the same play mechanics have been broken from when I last left off. Really screams how cornered and lax they have that title as. NFL 2k5 played better and that was 20 years ago.
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Not that I have any idea what that means, but I will pass it on. Is it any particular type of games you are talking about? If he deals with those, it's something he can work on.
Honestly I'm just fucking with you. I don't play anywhere near enough anymore to justify giving suggestions. I hoped on Madden for the first time in 5 years and the same play mechanics have been broken from when I last left off. Really screams how cornered and lax they have that title as. NFL 2k5 played better and that was 20 years ago.
Honestly I'm just fucking with you. I don't play anywhere near enough anymore to justify giving suggestions. I hoped on Madden for the first time in 5 years and the same play mechanics have been broken from when I last left off. Really screams how cornered and lax they have that title as. NFL 2k5 played better and that was 20 years ago.
He doesn't work on Madden. Thanks for the info though.
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Gumby celebrates his 61st birthday today ? I'm taking today off
Wo-men forget nothing... Deferring to Mary K Cabbage
Still absorbing it all in w/flight back to NC tonight. Check back in Monday, in short
Let's all agree, Berry/FO started & left this draft as the dead last team (32nd) in 2024 draft capital. Sure we can all second guess the picks... I had My moments...
Trade back little for Mike Hall or Junior Colson ?
LB Payton Wilson at 85? (local favorite goes to Shitz'burgh? ?)
Why take a 7th rd. corner,when 4 picks later, FSU TE Jaheim Bell may fill a higher depth need ?
Ya see? (take all your ? off)
Later studs !
Happy Birthday Old Man! We have plenty of time to talk about our draft - as long as we don't forget now that we're both in our early 60s.... Your buddy Flugel was Class of 82 (high school).
Wait til you see the film clip Syd shared about our last draft pick. Football Wood Factor: Balsa to Sequoia.
Happy Birthday Old Man! We have plenty of time to talk about our draft - as long as we don't forget now that we're both in our early 60s.... Your buddy Flugel was Class of 82 (high school).
Thanks Flugel ! We can always, tag team as The Grumpy Old Men of the BB ?
Browns currently have 89 players under contract (after the draft picks & UDFAs sign) with a maximum of 90 players allowed during the offseason.
1 player short of tagging this as a 2024 beginning camp roster.(edit-added OL Bryan Allen to 90/ added free spot (international program T Roy Mbaeteka )
The media won't be giving this roster any C grades ^^
The draft run on TE's started in the 4th round (no pick)
Below is a 6th round graded UDFA TE coming to C-Land. Watched what i could find on plane ride home ?
TE Treyton Welch, Wyoming - We got a dawg-fight for TE3 going into camp
Had a great road trip to hometown OH-_ _ !
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
Gumby celebrates his 61st birthday today ? I'm taking today off
Wo-men forget nothing... Deferring to Mary K Cabbage
Still absorbing it all in w/flight back to NC tonight. Check back in Monday, in short
Let's all agree, Berry/FO started & left this draft as the dead last team (32nd) in 2024 draft capital. Sure we can all second guess the picks... I had My moments...
Trade back little for Mike Hall or Junior Colson ?
LB Payton Wilson at 85? (local favorite goes to Shitz'burgh? ?)
Why take a 7th rd. corner,when 4 picks later, FSU TE Jaheim Bell may fill a higher depth need ?
Ya see? (take all your ? off)
Later studs !
eh, I still think it was a solid draft
happy b day man
eh, I still think it was a solid draft
happy b day man
Thank you Sir Syd..
When checking in from draft grounds via phone? Syd's post always gave us the rays of positive sunshine for all 3 days..
Even my late father & Uncle would buy your game ticket to sit with us.. High's or Low's.. Your a loyal Browns Fan ! Thanks!
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Happy Birthday Old Man! We have plenty of time to talk about our draft - as long as we don't forget now that we're both in our early 60s.... Your buddy Flugel was Class of 82 (high school).
Thanks Flugel ! We can always, tag team as The Grumpy Old Men of the BB ?
Browns currently have 89 players under contract (after the draft picks & UDFAs sign) with a maximum of 90 players allowed during the offseason.
1 player short of tagging this as a 2024 beginning camp roster.(edit-added OL Bryan Allen to 90/ added free spot (international program T Roy Mbaeteka )
The media won't be giving this roster any C grades ^^
The draft run on TE's started in the 4th round (no pick)
Below is a 6th round graded UDFA TE coming to C-Land. Watched what i could find on plane ride home ?
TE Treyton Welch, Wyoming - We got a dawg-fight for TE3 going into camp
Had a great road trip to hometown OH-_ _ !
Thanks Flugel ! We can always, tag team as The Grumpy Old Men of the BB ?
Browns currently have 89 players under contract (after the draft picks & UDFAs sign) with a maximum of 90 players allowed during the offseason.
1 player short of tagging this as a 2024 beginning camp roster... BuT,
The media won't be giving this roster any C grades ^^
The draft run on TE's started in the 4th round (no pick)
Below is a 6th round graded UDFA TE coming to C-Land. Watched what i could find on plane ride home ?
TE Treyton Welch, Wyoming - We got a dawg-fight for TE3 going into camp
Had a great road trip to hometown OH-_ _ !
? Glad to hear you had a great road trip. Good work with the pre-season depth chart. As for TE Treyton Welch - it was pretty easy to see why his teammates voted him a Captain.
It's nice to have the amount of talent on-board to the extent we're just balancing the depth throughout. Given that we lost both RTs and our LT to injury last year - that might be our biggest challenge ahead. Ifedi is more of a Guard and didn't play a down last year and he could play RT in a crunch. LT kind of scares me; but there may be some opportunities to improve our depth there before the regular season kicks off. We shall see...
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Thanks Flugel ! We can always, tag team as The Grumpy Old Men of the BB ?
Browns currently have 89 players under contract (after the draft picks & UDFAs sign) with a maximum of 90 players allowed during the offseason.
1 player short of tagging this as a 2024 beginning camp roster... BuT,
The media won't be giving this roster any C grades ^^
The draft run on TE's started in the 4th round (no pick)
Below is a 6th round graded UDFA TE coming to C-Land. Watched what i could find on plane ride home ?
TE Treyton Welch, Wyoming - We got a dawg-fight for TE3 going into camp
Had a great road trip to hometown OH-_ _ !
? Glad to hear you had a great road trip. Good work with the pre-season depth chart. As for TE Treyton Welch - it was pretty easy to see why his teammates voted him a Captain.
It's nice to have the amount of talent on-board to the extent we're just balancing the depth throughout. Given that we lost both RTs and our LT to injury last year - that might be our biggest challenge ahead. Ifedi is more of a Guard and didn't play a down last year and he could play RT in a crunch. LT kind of scares me; but there may be some opportunities to improve our depth there before the regular season kicks off. We shall see...
LT kind of scares me; but there may be some opportunities to improve our depth there before the regular season kicks off. We shall see...
Thanks. Yep, I'm w/ya on LT. It's scary depth. I'd give Adeniji a better chance than Ifedi. but neither I've been a fan of at either Tackle spot. We know what Hudson is. He's free in a year.
Let's hope Dawand Jones get's a real shot at the LT spot with Wills at camp..Our chances of upgrading right tackle behind RT Conklin,(Wills) may fall to us as a FA with as many Tackles that were just drafted?
Heck, We may have new tools to add to the O with Ken Dorsey in town? Not for once, am i thinking Stef's giving up his play call menu
How many weeks to rookie camp? We're starting to get jacked up in here early old man ?
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Long strider - Thrash. Looks like Joe McKnight but lighter.
liked Thrash in ACC.. He can give us a Jordan Addison lite look out of the slot.. He's faster than David Bell at 4.46 40 speed. explodes well getting out of trash to get up field.
I like the pick...
@tiamat63 No A. Thrash highlight film. But, thought you/others might enjoy this Steve Smith breakdown of Thrash speaking in your DB/WR language ..
ACC Sidenote..Smitty omits in video, a hand injury that may of led to some drop totals in 2023 (not to excuse)
During the 2023 season, Thrash missed Louisville's game against Virginia Tech on Nov. 4 after breaking his hand and having surgery. However, it was the only game he missed with the injury and returned to the field. Thrash said that he saw the injury affect his game in the latter half of the season but found a way to fight through and still be a productive receiver.
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Long strider - Thrash. Looks like Joe McKnight but lighter.
liked Thrash in ACC.. He can give us a Jordan Addison lite look out of the slot.. He's faster than David Bell at 4.46 40 speed. explodes well getting out of trash to get up field.
I like the pick...
@tiamat63 No A. Thrash highlight film. But, thought you/others might enjoy this Steve Smith breakdown of Thrash speaking in your DB/WR language ..
ACC Sidenote..Smitty omits in video, a hand injury that may of led to some drop totals in 2023 (not to excuse)
During the 2023 season, Thrash missed Louisville's game against Virginia Tech on Nov. 4 after breaking his hand and having surgery. However, it was the only game he missed with the injury and returned to the field. Thrash said that he saw the injury affect his game in the latter half of the season but found a way to fight through and still be a productive receiver.
@tiamat63 No A. Thrash highlight film. But, thought you/others might enjoy this Steve Smith breakdown of Thrash speaking in your DB/WR language ..
ACC Sidenote..Smitty omits in video, a hand injury that may of lead to some drop totals in 2023 (not to excuse)
During the 2023 season, Thrash missed Louisville's game against Virginia Tech on Nov. 4 after breaking his hand and having surgery. However, it was the only game he missed with the injury and returned to the field. Thrash said that he saw the injury affect his game in the latter half of the season but found a way to fight through and still be a productive receiver.
I'll always listen to commentary from an NFL player - especially Smitty.
That said, I'm concerned about the overplaying and hype because of two reasons.
- Off corner play high and inside on most of these clips. From Ga Tech to Indy. This means two things - defenses respect speed. But they also don't respect your QB. I call those types of things "poker plays". And yes, there are "poker players" on the football field - Ed Reed is the best example you'll ever see. You're playing the man more than the hand.
- No re-route from corners when they turn Thrash over to the safety when they have help.
I'm not saying there isn't potential here, there is and I see the football I.Q. But JT's footwork, play strength (contested catch rate is awful) and he needs to clean up the drops. Hand injury not withstanding.
He's smooth out of his initial move from the LoS, but I'm curious how he'll respond to press, bump and more physical corners in the NFL. He also tends to lineup on one side of the formation A LOT. So it'll be quite the switch having to play across the entire pattern as he learns how to be a pro.
His 10 yard split is pretty average, but the top end gear is pretty damn good. But his route tree also doesn't look extensive either from what I've seen so far. Likely the Louisville offense and their designs for high percentage and YAC throws.
edit: Day 3 pick was spot on. That's where I would have had him had I watched pre-draft.
He has ability, but he needs time and coaching. Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
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Excellent details Tia ! ^^ thanks
Excited that Smitty also saw the route tree differences from Ga.ST to Louisville. Smith also nails the QB weakness at both schools. Thrash has got to be thrilled coming to a team w/Coop's help of cleaning up some of Ga.St more open route tree offense. Watching Louisville's offense in 2023 was a complete bore at times ?
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Javion Cohen Scouting Report
Full breakdown of Browns' UDFA l
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@tiamat63 No A. Thrash highlight film. But, thought you/others might enjoy this Steve Smith breakdown of Thrash speaking in your DB/WR language ..
ACC Sidenote..Smitty omits in video, a hand injury that may of lead to some drop totals in 2023 (not to excuse)
During the 2023 season, Thrash missed Louisville's game against Virginia Tech on Nov. 4 after breaking his hand and having surgery. However, it was the only game he missed with the injury and returned to the field. Thrash said that he saw the injury affect his game in the latter half of the season but found a way to fight through and still be a productive receiver.
I'll always listen to commentary from an NFL player - especially Smitty.
That said, I'm concerned about the overplaying and hype because of two reasons.
- Off corner play high and inside on most of these clips. From Ga Tech to Indy. This means two things - defenses respect speed. But they also don't respect your QB. I call those types of things "poker plays". And yes, there are "poker players" on the football field - Ed Reed is the best example you'll ever see. You're playing the man more than the hand.
- No re-route from corners when they turn Thrash over to the safety when they have help.
I'm not saying there isn't potential here, there is and I see the football I.Q. But JT's footwork, play strength (contested catch rate is awful) and he needs to clean up the drops. Hand injury not withstanding.
He's smooth out of his initial move from the LoS, but I'm curious how he'll respond to press, bump and more physical corners in the NFL. He also tends to lineup on one side of the formation A LOT. So it'll be quite the switch having to play across the entire pattern as he learns how to be a pro.
His 10 yard split is pretty average, but the top end gear is pretty damn good. But his route tree also doesn't look extensive either from what I've seen so far. Likely the Louisville offense and their designs for high percentage and YAC throws.
edit: Day 3 pick was spot on. That's where I would have had him had I watched pre-draft.
He has ability, but he needs time and coaching. Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
Coleman was predicted to go in the 1st round. Thrash wasn't predicted anywhere near the 1st round. This front office would have to answer some major questions if they drafted this guy in rd 1.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
@tiamat63 No A. Thrash highlight film. But, thought you/others might enjoy this Steve Smith breakdown of Thrash speaking in your DB/WR language ..
ACC Sidenote..Smitty omits in video, a hand injury that may of lead to some drop totals in 2023 (not to excuse)
During the 2023 season, Thrash missed Louisville's game against Virginia Tech on Nov. 4 after breaking his hand and having surgery. However, it was the only game he missed with the injury and returned to the field. Thrash said that he saw the injury affect his game in the latter half of the season but found a way to fight through and still be a productive receiver.
I'll always listen to commentary from an NFL player - especially Smitty.
That said, I'm concerned about the overplaying and hype because of two reasons.
- Off corner play high and inside on most of these clips. From Ga Tech to Indy. This means two things - defenses respect speed. But they also don't respect your QB. I call those types of things "poker plays". And yes, there are "poker players" on the football field - Ed Reed is the best example you'll ever see. You're playing the man more than the hand.
- No re-route from corners when they turn Thrash over to the safety when they have help.
I'm not saying there isn't potential here, there is and I see the football I.Q. But JT's footwork, play strength (contested catch rate is awful) and he needs to clean up the drops. Hand injury not withstanding.
He's smooth out of his initial move from the LoS, but I'm curious how he'll respond to press, bump and more physical corners in the NFL. He also tends to lineup on one side of the formation A LOT. So it'll be quite the switch having to play across the entire pattern as he learns how to be a pro.
His 10 yard split is pretty average, but the top end gear is pretty damn good. But his route tree also doesn't look extensive either from what I've seen so far. Likely the Louisville offense and their designs for high percentage and YAC throws.
edit: Day 3 pick was spot on. That's where I would have had him had I watched pre-draft.
He has ability, but he needs time and coaching. Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
I'll always listen to commentary from an NFL player - especially Smitty.
That said, I'm concerned about the overplaying and hype because of two reasons.
- Off corner play high and inside on most of these clips. From Ga Tech to Indy. This means two things - defenses respect speed. But they also don't respect your QB. I call those types of things "poker plays". And yes, there are "poker players" on the football field - Ed Reed is the best example you'll ever see. You're playing the man more than the hand.
- No re-route from corners when they turn Thrash over to the safety when they have help.
I'm not saying there isn't potential here, there is and I see the football I.Q. But JT's footwork, play strength (contested catch rate is awful) and he needs to clean up the drops. Hand injury not withstanding.
He's smooth out of his initial move from the LoS, but I'm curious how he'll respond to press, bump and more physical corners in the NFL. He also tends to lineup on one side of the formation A LOT. So it'll be quite the switch having to play across the entire pattern as he learns how to be a pro.
His 10 yard split is pretty average, but the top end gear is pretty damn good. But his route tree also doesn't look extensive either from what I've seen so far. Likely the Louisville offense and their designs for high percentage and YAC throws.
edit: Day 3 pick was spot on. That's where I would have had him had I watched pre-draft.
He has ability, but he needs time and coaching. Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
When we draft guys - we need to project them into the division the Browns reside in. For example, nobody holds more than Joey Porter Jr (not even Emerson). When they flag him - it's usually early on in the game so they don't have to do it the rest of the day. Looks like Jamari needs to show the coaching staff he can catch the ball when he's well covered with a corner on his hip. That's showing up in a lot of scouting reports I'm seeing. I like Tia's point above about wanting to see how he responds to press coverage and physical corners. Not everybody can do this kind of thing. That's why a change of direction kind of guy would fit nicely somewhere on our perimeter. Back when we had Eric Metcalf, we were the ONLY team had no clue how good this guy would be lining up on the perimeter in space. For his next 2-3 teams, he excelled as Wide Receiver/Flanker/Slot and everything that didn't ask him to be Eric up the middle any more. Brian Brennan wasn't bad at change of direction either on that 86 team with 12 wins.
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I'll always listen to commentary from an NFL player - especially Smitty.
That said, I'm concerned about the overplaying and hype because of two reasons.
- Off corner play high and inside on most of these clips. From Ga Tech to Indy. This means two things - defenses respect speed. But they also don't respect your QB. I call those types of things "poker plays". And yes, there are "poker players" on the football field - Ed Reed is the best example you'll ever see. You're playing the man more than the hand.
- No re-route from corners when they turn Thrash over to the safety when they have help.
I'm not saying there isn't potential here, there is and I see the football I.Q. But JT's footwork, play strength (contested catch rate is awful) and he needs to clean up the drops. Hand injury not withstanding.
He's smooth out of his initial move from the LoS, but I'm curious how he'll respond to press, bump and more physical corners in the NFL. He also tends to lineup on one side of the formation A LOT. So it'll be quite the switch having to play across the entire pattern as he learns how to be a pro.
His 10 yard split is pretty average, but the top end gear is pretty damn good. But his route tree also doesn't look extensive either from what I've seen so far. Likely the Louisville offense and their designs for high percentage and YAC throws.
edit: Day 3 pick was spot on. That's where I would have had him had I watched pre-draft.
He has ability, but he needs time and coaching. Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
When we draft guys - we need to project them into the division the Browns reside in. For example, nobody holds more than Joey Porter Jr (not even Emerson). When they flag him - it's usually early on in the game so they don't have to do it the rest of the day. Looks like Jamari needs to show the coaching staff he can catch the ball when he's well covered with a corner on his hip. That's showing up in a lot of scouting reports I'm seeing. I like Tia's point above about wanting to see how he responds to press coverage and physical corners. Not everybody can do this kind of thing. That's why a change of direction kind of guy would fit nicely somewhere on our perimeter. Back when we had Eric Metcalf, we were the ONLY team had no clue how good this guy would be lining up on the perimeter in space. For his next 2-3 teams, he excelled as Wide Receiver/Flanker/Slot and everything that didn't ask him to be Eric up the middle any more. Brian Brennan wasn't bad at change of direction either on that 86 team with 12 wins.
......... Not everybody can do this kind of thing. That's why a change of direction kind of guy would fit nicely somewhere on our perimeter........
..... Back when we had Eric Metcalf, we were the ONLY team had no clue how good this guy would be lining up on the perimeter in space. For his next 2-3 teams, he excelled as Wide Receiver/Flanker/Slot and everything that didn't ask him to be Eric up the middle any more. Brian Brennan wasn't bad at change of direction either on that 86 team with 12 wins.
I agree, it might bring back a whole new and exciting brand of Cleveland BROWNS back on the field. With Joe Flacco's type of football gone they must still keep getting better in 2024.
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Some of these knocks were the same one's we had on Corey Coleman. Only we spent the 15th overall on that asshole. Glad to see this front office isn't falling for similar tricks.
Coleman was predicted to go in the 1st round. Thrash wasn't predicted anywhere near the 1st round. This front office would have to answer some major questions if they drafted this guy in rd 1.
Coleman was predicted to go in the 1st round. Thrash wasn't predicted anywhere near the 1st round.
Neither of those things negate the similarities in the short comings of their respective games.
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