Relax... Sheesh
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The BEST post in history! I don't expect to see much improvement until the second half of the season anyways. And I expect to see about 8-10 new starters next year offensively and defensively combined. All I wanted out of this year is to not get embarressed but it keeps happening. I'm mostly upset about what has been happening here since 99. The J-E-T-S!! Are skating through the schedule using the team Mangini built and he is stuck with 10 years of mistakes to fix. I think that's why he's not going crazy on the sideline, because it's a 16 game scrimmage for him. He's evaluating talent.
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Jason,
Great post. I predicted a record of 6-10 with steady improvement. Right now five wins might not happen but the improvement is really the key. I think Mangini and Kokinis understand what needs to be done. It could take two years before we really have a playoff team (two more draft and FA periods) but I will hope for sooner than that.
As Mangini said in his press conference, the problems are correctable.
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Masters said:
Not to mention the WRs in DEN. They have two legit starters at wideout.Don't forget OAK. That team isn't very good either.
I think BQ Nation has settled on their super bowl matchup for this season.
MINNESOTA VS DENVER FOR THE WHOLE ENCHILADA
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Masters said:
Not to mention the WRs in DEN. They have two legit starters at wideout.Don't forget OAK. That team isn't very good either.
I think BQ Nation has settled on their super bowl matchup for this season.
MINNESOTA VS DENVER FOR THE WHOLE ENCHILADA
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or maybe they go 8-8 rather than 2-14
Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January? Derek Anderson is a boon to a bad team and a liability to a good one. It's like trying to put your basketball team over the top by adding Jason Kapono. You look like a genius some nights. But, over the long haul, it doesn't actually improve your team.
-jj
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I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on this freaking piss and moan session, but you may want to dial it down a notch... you know, just a notch. I'm reading all of these threads and can't, for the life of me, figure out what the hell you're so pissed off about.
Virtually every interested party has been telling you that this team is not very good. It's going to struggle to win games. And, now you're pissed off because you disagreed with them? Now wait a minute. You thought the Browns were "X" good. It turns out they're "Y" good. And you're pissed at them? Why, because you don't know a lousy football team when you see one?
For crying out loud, your beloved Browns are undergoing a complete overhaul. Relax. You're looking at a team with 3 or 4 legitimate starters, 2 or 3 developmental projects, and 14 or 15 place holders. Good luck. What did you expect exactly?
Everyone in here, that I saw anyway, pegged the upside of this season at 8-8/9-7. And you guys are the fans! I told you a week ago, this team will have a hell of a time winning in the early part of the season. They'll be lucky to hit the bye week with 3 wins. If EVERYTHING goes right they could end up 7-9 or 8-8. Well, what you saw yesterday is what "praying for 8-8" looks like.
The offense is simplified. The play calling is boring. They're having problems executing the base offense. Offensive adjustments are almost impossible. The line play is tentative. The backs are indecisive. And the quarterback has that Sylvester the Cat look after his battles with a kangaroo he presumed to be a mouse. "Yup!"
The defense is stretched to it's limit. They can't really adjust away from their base defense. Every time they deviate from the base (let's call those "halftime adjustments"), the defense slows down and huge gashes develop. This is all true.
But you don't fix it by changing personnel week 2. You don't fix it by changing personnel this year.
You guys have gotten so used to Phil Savage jerking you off by bringing in expensive "talent" from around the league, as if this team was ever only 1 or 2 players away from the next level. They're not. They never were.
The fact that the Browns have virtually had a quarterback controversy every year gives you all the false hope that "Well, if the other guy was in there... blah blah blah." No! Not true... never was true. These quick fix artists that have been running this organization have been soft-spined appeasers. They somehow believed that the 2007 team was a good football team. They weren't. They got lucky. They played out of their heads. Whatever you want to call it.
Somebody has to change the culture in that building. Somebody has to be willing to tear this shanty of an organization down to the foundation and rebuild it. The Browns need someone who has a vision for the organization, and has no problem standing in front of the media and the fans, and saying "We're making progress," when all evidence points to the contrary. You need someone who is not interested in appeasing anyone. And in case no one has noticed, the Browns might just have that guy. But you've got to slow down.
This team has to get better. The 22 guys that are out there have to get better. They have to be on the field, make mistakes, and get better. That mass of prospects, journeymen, and a couple of starters has to develop into 6-10 starters by season's end. They have to get better. They have to fall down, and get back up, and get better.
And in case you're wondering, yesterday's game in Denver is what that looks like. The Browns front office has turned over 40% of the roster from a year ago. That's easy. You churn up the bottom end of the roster, bring in a few cast offs, cut loose a few never-gonna-be prospects, and voila, you've got half the roster turned over. It won't happen again next year. Oh they may turn over 20-30% of the roster. There's plenty of dead weight. But the change will be far more strategic. You will see an influx of young linebackers, young receivers, young running backs, young defensive backs, and quite possibly a new quarterback.
Relax.
This is who the Browns are right now. Relax. It will get better. This year even. It will get better.
The last decade has been filled with guys trying to turn this team into a winner without going through this. It's time for that to be over. It's like trying to lose weight without hitting the gym. Oh you might be able to Atkins your way to 20 or 30 lbs... but you're not really fit, are you? Relax. And be glad you have a guy in charge that is willing to take the heat while this team gets rebuilt the right way.
-jj
Good post. Everything you've said rings true.
I don't think the front office is naive about the talent level. And while I'm no Romeo fan, its starting to look like his hands were tied by Phil.
I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on this freaking piss and moan session, but you may want to dial it down a notch... you know, just a notch. I'm reading all of these threads and can't, for the life of me, figure out what the hell you're so pissed off about.
Virtually every interested party has been telling you that this team is not very good. It's going to struggle to win games. And, now you're pissed off because you disagreed with them? Now wait a minute. You thought the Browns were "X" good. It turns out they're "Y" good. And you're pissed at them? Why, because you don't know a lousy football team when you see one?
For crying out loud, your beloved Browns are undergoing a complete overhaul. Relax. You're looking at a team with 3 or 4 legitimate starters, 2 or 3 developmental projects, and 14 or 15 place holders. Good luck. What did you expect exactly?
Everyone in here, that I saw anyway, pegged the upside of this season at 8-8/9-7. And you guys are the fans! I told you a week ago, this team will have a hell of a time winning in the early part of the season. They'll be lucky to hit the bye week with 3 wins. If EVERYTHING goes right they could end up 7-9 or 8-8. Well, what you saw yesterday is what "praying for 8-8" looks like.
The offense is simplified. The play calling is boring. They're having problems executing the base offense. Offensive adjustments are almost impossible. The line play is tentative. The backs are indecisive. And the quarterback has that Sylvester the Cat look after his battles with a kangaroo he presumed to be a mouse. "Yup!"
The defense is stretched to it's limit. They can't really adjust away from their base defense. Every time they deviate from the base (let's call those "halftime adjustments"), the defense slows down and huge gashes develop. This is all true.
But you don't fix it by changing personnel week 2. You don't fix it by changing personnel this year.
You guys have gotten so used to Phil Savage jerking you off by bringing in expensive "talent" from around the league, as if this team was ever only 1 or 2 players away from the next level. They're not. They never were.
The fact that the Browns have virtually had a quarterback controversy every year gives you all the false hope that "Well, if the other guy was in there... blah blah blah." No! Not true... never was true. These quick fix artists that have been running this organization have been soft-spined appeasers. They somehow believed that the 2007 team was a good football team. They weren't. They got lucky. They played out of their heads. Whatever you want to call it.
Somebody has to change the culture in that building. Somebody has to be willing to tear this shanty of an organization down to the foundation and rebuild it. The Browns need someone who has a vision for the organization, and has no problem standing in front of the media and the fans, and saying "We're making progress," when all evidence points to the contrary. You need someone who is not interested in appeasing anyone. And in case no one has noticed, the Browns might just have that guy. But you've got to slow down.
This team has to get better. The 22 guys that are out there have to get better. They have to be on the field, make mistakes, and get better. That mass of prospects, journeymen, and a couple of starters has to develop into 6-10 starters by season's end. They have to get better. They have to fall down, and get back up, and get better.
And in case you're wondering, yesterday's game in Denver is what that looks like. The Browns front office has turned over 40% of the roster from a year ago. That's easy. You churn up the bottom end of the roster, bring in a few cast offs, cut loose a few never-gonna-be prospects, and voila, you've got half the roster turned over. It won't happen again next year. Oh they may turn over 20-30% of the roster. There's plenty of dead weight. But the change will be far more strategic. You will see an influx of young linebackers, young receivers, young running backs, young defensive backs, and quite possibly a new quarterback.
Relax.
This is who the Browns are right now. Relax. It will get better. This year even. It will get better.
The last decade has been filled with guys trying to turn this team into a winner without going through this. It's time for that to be over. It's like trying to lose weight without hitting the gym. Oh you might be able to Atkins your way to 20 or 30 lbs... but you're not really fit, are you? Relax. And be glad you have a guy in charge that is willing to take the heat while this team gets rebuilt the right way.
-jj
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I placed a bet lastnight and my thread disappeared. Why? I was serious. I don't think we will go winless but I do think the Lions will get thier first win against us.
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or maybe they go 8-8 rather than 2-14
Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January? Derek Anderson is a boon to a bad team and a liability to a good one. It's like trying to put your basketball team over the top by adding Jason Kapono. You look like a genius some nights. But, over the long haul, it doesn't actually improve your team.
-jj
Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January?
released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
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Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January?
released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
You mean the same FORMER pro bowl QB that no one wanted to trade for this offseason when he was available?
And I don't think Jason's comments about DA being released in JAN have anything to do w/ emotion. It has to do w/ money. CLE isn't going to pay DA that amount next year (or take that cap hit), just as they are not going to pay BQ his amount either w/ his current play (notice Jason said BQ could be gone too).
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released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
You mean the same FORMER pro bowl QB that no one wanted to trade for this offseason when he was available?
And I don't think Jason's comments about DA being released in JAN have anything to do w/ emotion. It has to do w/ money. CLE isn't going to pay DA that amount next year (or take that cap hit), just as they are not going to pay BQ his amount either w/ his current play (notice Jason said BQ could be gone too).
Masters said:
It has to do w/ money. CLE isn't going to pay DA that amount next year (or take that cap hit), just as they are not going to pay BQ his amount either w/ his current play (notice Jason said BQ could be gone too).so who's gonna play QB in your fantasy world? Josh Cribbs? TIM FRIGGEN TEBOW?
apparently this team has the worst right side of the OL of all time
it also has the worst OC of all time
worst running game of all time
the least overall talent of all time
..............so what's BQ Nation gonna say when Anderson comes in and throws a couple TDs?
we've been thru this before (CHARLIE FRYE) and we know how it's gonna end for the Quinnster.
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Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January?
released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
1.) I don't really have much emotion on the subject, frankly. And 2.) Yeah, I think they would. (release Anderson, that is). I think you might be putting a little too much weight on that Pro Bowl appearance. I mean, Trent Dilfer has a Pro Bowl appearance, for crying out loud (and a Super Bowl ring... figure that?). Derek Anderson is a fine NFL quarterback for a sixth round pick. But that's about it. He's not really a $10 million quarterback. Don't get me wrong, you make what someone will give you. But, the guy who gave him that contract was out of his mind.
I think Derek Anderson has a long career ahead of him. But it's unlikely that even half of that will be as a starter. He's far more likely to bounce around the league keeping a spot going while a franchise waits on its next savior. And that's not a bad gig. He may even catch lightning in a bottle again someday - a la Rich Gannon or Brad Johnson. But his days of being a cornerstone of an organization (all 6 to 8 weeks of them), are more than probably over.
I just think you believe that Derek Anderson is something he's not. And that's OK. You're a fan. I get that. Christ, you might be his brother for all your passion and vitriol. But, let's not pretend that Derek Anderson is someone other than Derek Anderson.
-jj
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Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January?
released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
-
released?
Try not to let the emotion get in the way for you here JJ.
Nobody's droppin a 26 yr old pro bowl QB on the waiver wire.
The only QB who could seriously get released by the team has the initials B and Q.
1.) I don't really have much emotion on the subject, frankly. And 2.) Yeah, I think they would. (release Anderson, that is). I think you might be putting a little too much weight on that Pro Bowl appearance. I mean, Trent Dilfer has a Pro Bowl appearance, for crying out loud (and a Super Bowl ring... figure that?). Derek Anderson is a fine NFL quarterback for a sixth round pick. But that's about it. He's not really a $10 million quarterback. Don't get me wrong, you make what someone will give you. But, the guy who gave him that contract was out of his mind.
I think Derek Anderson has a long career ahead of him. But it's unlikely that even half of that will be as a starter. He's far more likely to bounce around the league keeping a spot going while a franchise waits on its next savior. And that's not a bad gig. He may even catch lightning in a bottle again someday - a la Rich Gannon or Brad Johnson. But his days of being a cornerstone of an organization (all 6 to 8 weeks of them), are more than probably over.
I just think you believe that Derek Anderson is something he's not. And that's OK. You're a fan. I get that. Christ, you might be his brother for all your passion and vitriol. But, let's not pretend that Derek Anderson is someone other than Derek Anderson.
-jj
2.) Yeah, I think they would. (release Anderson, that is).
APPARENTLY ITS TIME FOR ROUND FOUR!!
IN 2007 I WAS TOLD ANDERSON WOULD GET CUT TO MAKE SPACE FOR KEN DORSEY
IN 2008 I WAS TOLD ANDERSON WOULD GET RELEASED BEFORE PHIL WOULD LOCK HIM UP IN A CONTRACT
IN 2009 I WAS TOLD THERE WAS NO WAY IN HELL ANDERSON WOULD GET HIS $5 MIL ROSTER BONUS AND WOULD INSTEAD BE RELEASED
NOW SOME JACKASS WHO'S TELLING US ""HE EXPECTED TO LOSE 27-6 TO DENVER"" IS TELLING ME THAT ANDERSON IS GONNA GET CUT AS SOON AS THE SEASON IS OVER.
ITS ON BITCH.
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Masters said:
It has to do w/ money. CLE isn't going to pay DA that amount next year (or take that cap hit), just as they are not going to pay BQ his amount either w/ his current play (notice Jason said BQ could be gone too).so who's gonna play QB in your fantasy world? Josh Cribbs? TIM FRIGGEN TEBOW?
apparently this team has the worst right side of the OL of all time
it also has the worst OC of all time
worst running game of all time
the least overall talent of all time
..............so what's BQ Nation gonna say when Anderson comes in and throws a couple TDs?
we've been thru this before (CHARLIE FRYE) and we know how it's gonna end for the Quinnster.
so who's gonna play QB in your fantasy world? Josh Cribbs? TIM FRIGGEN TEBOW?
apparently this team has the worst right side of the OL of all time
it also has the worst OC of all time
worst running game of all time
the least overall talent of all time
..............so what's BQ Nation gonna say when Anderson comes in and throws a couple TDs?
we've been thru this before (CHARLIE FRYE) and we know how it's gonna end for the Quinnster.
Whose going to play QB in 2010? Assuming BQ continues to struggle and is not the answer, I would venture a guess it will be a 1st QB in next years draft (McCoy, Bradford, or some other guy) or a vet while that 1st round QB learns.
Not the worst OL at all. Though the left side might actually be worse than it was last year.
Not the worst running game of all time. There has been worse in CLE. Heck, imo CLE hasn't even made a real commitment to the run, which ain't helping it.
Not the least talent all time, but talent is lacking, just as it was last year.
You realize it has been just as long since DA threw a TD pass than Quinn (actually it has been longer), right?
Likely the same as it ended for Frye and DA. The clock will might strike midnight.
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It isn't the record. It is the ineptness I see...and for that I won't relax.
Thanks.
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The QB situation is the least of our problems. I saw a decent run defense through the 3rd quarter, other than that, all other dimensions are horrible. Not to worry though, we'll give this regime 2 more years to rebuild then cleanhouse with new management and the whole nine after making it up to mediocrity......The life of a Browns fan.
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Wow, Jason, will you hang around more please? I'd like to follow the dysfunction that is our team with more fans like you who actually understand what we're watching here.
Guys, this is concrete being laid right here. It's hot, ugly and dirty and ain't fun to watch.
Unless you happen to like the idea that something is going to built on TOP of the concrete, that is. Unless you can take a step back and visualize what will be there somedday and have some trust in the architects (Mangini and Kokinis) and the workers (the current players). You don't have to like the landowner (Lerner) or even the people who will live in the house (the future players) eventually.
So stop screaming at the concrete pourers for not being painters, plumbers or roofers and have a little faith that something IS being built here.
Jason is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that we've been sold a bill of goods by each "management" team since '99. None of them was in this for the long haul and it showed.
Mangini and Kokinis obviously have been empowered to do the very job we're watching here. I'm sorry, but you don't move to Cleveland with young kids without some assurance they'll get a few years to grow up in one place, even if you're an NFL coach. I don't believe that any coach looks to take a job just to get fired.
I happen to like watching construction. I like the process, I like the different experiences, I like being part of seeing something get built.
So just enjoy the show and stop complaining about what it ISN'T going to be this year.
And as JJ said: what else did you expect anyway?
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Say what you want about DA. Just remember, he is the only QB on this team who has led this team to a winning season.
Looks like we are going to be the Lions (or close to it) of this season.
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The QB situation is the least of our problems. I saw a decent run defense through the 3rd quarter, other than that, all other dimensions are horrible. Not to worry though, we'll give this regime 2 more years to rebuild then cleanhouse with new management and the whole nine after making it up to mediocrity......The life of a Browns fan.
Not to worry though, we'll give this regime 2 more years to rebuild then cleanhouse with new management and the whole nine after making it up to mediocrity......The life of a Browns fan.
that is too worry....3 years is just the beginning...hence this thread. unless you have patience, this is the life of a browns fan. you CANNOT keep firing coaches hoping that will make the team better....starting over every 3 years is the perpetual cycle that needs broken.
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