Why the Browns have had trouble winning
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I think Cal's point is that the Steelers drafted their first round QB into a team that was already dominate defensively with a solid OL/running game. I think Big Gay Ben has proven he's the real deal at this point, but he didn't have to do much early on.
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The Browns have two qb's that can play. But no qb can play with a turnstile RT, which has been the problem
with the Browns for years.
Plus, Edwards just isn't getting open like a Hines Ward.
Sure, Barfburger is good. But he has nice protection, and FAST, QUICK receivers to get open
for him quickly before the protection starts to break down.
If you read down through the picks. at one point, they say a team played a hologram at RT and that
needed to be addressed.
Well, what the hell do we call St. Claire at RT ?
Hell, put Pork chop at RG, and St. Claire at LG, and put Steinbach at RT.
Something has to be done. And Lewis is stutter stepping trying to find a seam..
All teams have to do, is reinforce the left side of the Browns line, and knife through the right side.
Mack has been outstanding for a rookie at center. You think bargburger would be a star if he played for the niners?
Arizona isn't playing their #1 draft pick at qb.... But they have beefed up their oline in a huge way.
Horses up front makes it work, no matter the other talent you have.
Then, when you have the other talent too, you can start dominating.
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I don't know about you guys, but I'd much rather have colt mccoy than jevan snead(who they have the browns picking in the mock draft).
but I'd much rather have a defensive player instead anyway.
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Very good point on edwards cal...but not only does he not get open but whens the last time he ran for YAC...your main threat has to get extra yards after the catch and the only time BE can do this is if his cover guy slips or if he bit on a pump fake...now take this across our whole WR corp and add to that the fact we have no right side on the o-line which hurts the run and pass and you have our biggest problems...
Its not BQ and it wasnt DA either...
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I thought Edwards played a whale of a game all things considered.
5 balls for 92 yards against a still highly effective Champ Bailey. The balls thrown his way didn't have him in a position for much YAC. Caught everything.
He was our most impressive player on Sunday. I don't know how anyone can say he wasn't getting "open". Who else was going to hurt Denver: JL? Cribbs? I'll bet they were rotating a ton of help his way on most downs.
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it doesn't seem to me that we're good picking QB's in the first. build the core team, then take a QB.....quinn could succeed with some talent around him....
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it doesn't seem to me that we're good picking QB's in the first. build the core team, then take a QB.....quinn could succeed with some talent around him....
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btw mock drafts don't mean anything. unless it's kiper's. even then it's totally unpredictable.
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I think Cal's point is that the Steelers drafted their first round QB into a team that was already dominate defensively with a solid OL/running game. I think Big Gay Ben has proven he's the real deal at this point, but he didn't have to do much early on.
I think Cal's point is that the Steelers drafted their first round QB into a team that was already dominate defensively with a solid OL/running game. I think Big Gay Ben has proven he's the real deal at this point, but he didn't have to do much early on.
B I N G O !!!
If we had a stout defense and a great running game, we'd have never drafted Quinn. We could have let DA go through his shit phase and made up for his mistakes with good defense and a decreased need to throw the ball.
A good defense will give the ball back after a mistake and 1) not let that mistake cost the team too much, and 2) allow the QB and offense to make up for it. DA never had that, and neither does Quinn.
No running game, and certainly no defense.
I'd much rather us build up one side of the team. Pick a side, any side. Preferably defense.
But all of us fans placing this shit on the QB spot while everything else (the more important stuff) is ALSO mediocre is nuts.
And it is driving all of us here bat shit crazy.
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it doesn't seem to me that we're good picking QB's in the first. build the core team, then take a QB.....quinn could succeed with some talent around him....
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the best way to improve the Browns does not lie in the 2010 Draft but rather in the 2010 Free Agency.
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Agree.
If we rely on the draft only this team will never go anywhere.
We need a solid FA shopping and then, maybe, a couple of studs from the draft.
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the best way to improve the Browns does not lie in the 2010 Draft but rather in the 2010 Free Agency.
the best way to improve the Browns does not lie in the 2010 Draft but rather in the 2010 Free Agency.
I have to disagree on that one. I see it much more as a build through the draft and find some decent stop gaps/depth in free agency and THEN when were competitive we can start shopping around FA for the final pieces to the puzzle. Look at the redskins for an example. I also think as far as the draft is concerned we need to look at the shelf life of our picks so O line and d line guys last longer so draft them first and work your way up to a RB. That way we would have our best players together at the same time for the longest span of time. I dont think i described that right but yeah...
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The point is: how long does it take to build a good team through the draft?
If you're an expansion team that can afford a few losing seasons without hurting your fan base (like the post-Modell Browns), then the draft is the best option you have. You can get very good players together with some Ryan Leafs or Tim Couches of Charlie Frye that people will soon forget.
But when you've gone out of the expansion shield and people start asking you seasons where the left number is higher then the right one, then you have to act quickly and the margin for errors gets very close to zero.
We had some good players in the past drafts (think of Joe Thomas, KW II, BE) but none of them helped us closing the gap with the rest of our division. This is simply due to the fact that we have had too many issues to solve at the same time.
The Browns cannot make 5- or 7-year plans to get back to where they were before that SOB brought the team to Baltimore.
I'd say that if we are not contending for the playoffs in two years' time, most of our fan base will simply stop getting interested in if the Browns will have a future.
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The Browns have drafted more than enough QB's since returning to the league. It's like relationships that don't work out. One keeps thinking that they just end up with duds, but after 4 or 5 duds one needs to realize that they are the problem, not the 4 or 5 supposed duds.
Every QB we've drafted, or signed was supposed to be the guy to fix it, the guy who drives the bus. But he spends most of his time running for his life and we think it's "all his fault."
It's like building a house, you build your foundation first.
@jadbf said:
You don't think maybe that's because...The steelers already drafted their 1st round QB a number of years ago?
Gee the Patriots aren't going to draft a QB in the first round either.
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I liike that. NFL offense and defenses are as House is to foundation and car to engine.
The offensive and defensives lines are the foundation/engine of the respective systems.
For a long time, the Browns had fancy players brought in, drafted... but the foundation or engine was
not up to par.
Our oline is close to being one of the best. But, in the least, we need to protect our qb's on the right side.
Doug Dieken was on the Browns show, and he said what happened was, Dumervil was rendered useless
going up against Joe Thomas. So, they gave that up, and put him over St. Claire in the second half.
A sorts of folks around here had their eye on Dumervil back in his draft - he is very, very quick. St. Claire couldn't do it,
and the Browns ended up with no time to run a play, a weak side that can't support a rollout, etc... and limits
long downfield throws.
Then the defense over-emphasizes coverage slants on the left side, and bingo, no time to throw downfield, etc. dammit.
Add in that Edwards doesn't get open quickly like a jitterbug Hines WArd, and you have disaster.
but things are looking up beautifully... Thomas, Steinbach and now Mack are awesome, and we can even run the ball to the right
to get a first down...
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I liike that. NFL offense and defenses are as House is to foundation and car to engine.
The offensive and defensives lines are the foundation/engine of the respective systems.
For a long time, the Browns had fancy players brought in, drafted... but the foundation or engine was
not up to par.
Our oline is close to being one of the best. But, in the least, we need to protect our qb's on the right side.
Doug Dieken was on the Browns show, and he said what happened was, Dumervil was rendered useless
going up against Joe Thomas. So, they gave that up, and put him over St. Claire in the second half.
A sorts of folks around here had their eye on Dumervil back in his draft - he is very, very quick. St. Claire couldn't do it,
and the Browns ended up with no time to run a play, a weak side that can't support a rollout, etc... and limits
long downfield throws.
Then the defense over-emphasizes coverage slants on the left side, and bingo, no time to throw downfield, etc. dammit.
Add in that Edwards doesn't get open quickly like a jitterbug Hines WArd, and you have disaster.
but things are looking up beautifully... Thomas, Steinbach and now Mack are awesome, and we can even run the ball to the right
to get a first down...
With his size I wonder if Mack can be moved to right guard or tackle, and put Fraley back at center? It's tough to run or throw when you only have one side to depend on.
I liike that. NFL offense and defenses are as House is to foundation and car to engine.
The offensive and defensives lines are the foundation/engine of the respective systems.
For a long time, the Browns had fancy players brought in, drafted... but the foundation or engine was
not up to par.
Our oline is close to being one of the best. But, in the least, we need to protect our qb's on the right side.
Doug Dieken was on the Browns show, and he said what happened was, Dumervil was rendered useless
going up against Joe Thomas. So, they gave that up, and put him over St. Claire in the second half.
A sorts of folks around here had their eye on Dumervil back in his draft - he is very, very quick. St. Claire couldn't do it,
and the Browns ended up with no time to run a play, a weak side that can't support a rollout, etc... and limits
long downfield throws.
Then the defense over-emphasizes coverage slants on the left side, and bingo, no time to throw downfield, etc. dammit.
Add in that Edwards doesn't get open quickly like a jitterbug Hines WArd, and you have disaster.
but things are looking up beautifully... Thomas, Steinbach and now Mack are awesome, and we can even run the ball to the right
to get a first down...
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With the defenses we face, we get no push from Fraley, and vs Ngata, Fraley fights a great fight. But, in the end, he
gets beaten up. I despise Savage for that trade, it was stupid, stupid, stupid. Especially doing the trade with team
in your OWN FREAKIN DIVISION ...
Sorry, that's lookin backwards.
Mack isn't experienced enough to move around on the line. He is going to end up an all-pro center.
Le Charles Bentley struggled his first year at center, and he was a serious talent. Give Mack huge, huge, huge credit
for coming in and doing the job. For he and Joe Thomas to come in an really do well.. that's amazing.
I just wish Tucker had retired, rather
than just coming in and getting hurt again. I keep wondering about trading Anderson for a RT. LOL
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I noted in a prior post..we have only draft ONE DLman in round 3 or above in the past 8 or 9 years.. that's just crazy.
As for the OL..... We now have a LT and C to solidify this line for a long time.. The other OL pieces CAN be put in place..even this year, if you have the right schemes.. St. Claire looks like a turnstyle right now...but there is no reason you cannot put a back to chip/help or a tight end over there to help out.. I also believe that getting Hadnot back will help also..
It takes an OL a while to get used to each other..these guys were just thrown together this year...no continuity from year to year... that is HUGE...they may need a few more games to get it together..hopefully soon....but, Look back to when Marty was with the chiefs.. they returned 90% of the OL intact for like 6 years in a row... they dominated.. this cannot be overstated.
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