Mangini....lost players already?
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There's plenty of blame to go around right now. No blocking, no running game, only 1 receiving threat, a QB showing his inexperience. To smaller degrees the list could just keep going.
So far we are who the analysts said we were going to be.
People are just dying to throw Mangie under the bus.
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They may be professionals, but they are also up against professionals. And that is when all things big and small add up to become a deciding factor. We can tell them not to give up, but we cant tell them not to get tired.
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There's plenty of blame to go around right now. No blocking, no running game, only 1 receiving threat, a QB showing his inexperience. To smaller degrees the list could just keep going.
So far we are who the analysts said we were going to be.
People are just dying to throw Mangie under the bus.
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@hiwaygal said:
Oh the drama.If Mangini is 'losing' players, I'm gonna step up and say then these aren't the type of players we want on our team. RAC let these guys be his best friend, buddy. You cannot do that in a position of authority. They quit on RAC because they knew there would be no accountability. Mangini is building a legacy of accountability. In the game, in the locker room, and in the public. This team needs discipline. Its one of the many things we've been lacking for awhile.
As for the defense being tired...I call BS on that too. They played all of 32 minutes of the Denver game. They should be prepared to play at least half a game and if they aren't, they need to be training more.
If these guys want to shit rainbows and fart sunshine, they need to win a few games. They may be fighting the system right now of frustration but they need to grow the hell up and be professionals.
I'm sure every guy on that defense, with the exception of Rogers maybe, is fully prepared to play at least half the game. The problem arises though when they are forced into playing as many minutes consecutively as they had to because their offense couldn't stay on the field early in the 4th quarter. I agree that they are professionals and being tired should not happen. But the fact is that every defense in the NFL would have been tired on Sunday if their offense played like the Browns did!
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It's still too early to tell, but the early returns aren't terribly promising. Heck, even Belichick has learned not to micro-manage his teams like this. There's accountability and then there's doing the "Hey, never forget that I'm in charge here!" thing. The first one works, the second one hardly ever does. Making the rookies go to his kids' camp, micromanaging the locker room, fining people for water.
But hey, all that accountability is turning the team into a winner, right? I mean, sure, they're 0-2 right now, but they're showing a lot of progress.
Dennis
We hired the wrong Ryan. Not that he's the subject of the OP, but we did.
It's still too early to tell, but the early returns aren't terribly promising. Heck, even Belichick has learned not to micro-manage his teams like this. There's accountability and then there's doing the "Hey, never forget that I'm in charge here!" thing. The first one works, the second one hardly ever does. Making the rookies go to his kids' camp, micromanaging the locker room, fining people for water.
But hey, all that accountability is turning the team into a winner, right? I mean, sure, they're 0-2 right now, but they're showing a lot of progress.
Dennis
We hired the wrong Ryan. Not that he's the subject of the OP, but we did.
You realize we've been down by a TD or less at the start of the 4th quarter in both games right? Its the personnel, not the wrong ryan.
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This team Quit in the 4th Qtr in Denver. I'm saying it...I think it's true. No fun at all to play for EM. Now he finesplayers Mximum allowed under collective bargaining agreement 1700 Bux ... for not paying for water? Fine them the cost of the water and time associated fixing situation...1700.00 That's just a Dick move! Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it....1700.00 for water??? wat a douche
This team Quit in the 4th Qtr in Denver. I'm saying it...I think it's true. No fun at all to play for EM. Now he finesplayers Mximum allowed under collective bargaining agreement 1700 Bux ... for not paying for water? Fine them the cost of the water and time associated fixing situation...1700.00 That's just a Dick move! Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it....1700.00 for water??? wat a douche
You know what though? You can best bet no one will be stealing any more water.
If you punish the miniscule bad behaviours, your much less likely to get the not so miniscule ones (Bengals cough cough)
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looks like it was elam who got fined.
http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/200...s/mj1646738.txt
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Fine for the water .... team & player learns.... message sent .... issue done. If I were a player earning the $$ they do, the fine is relative to the infraction. Or else find a new job if you dont agree. And yea if thats what you think bein a dick is, well so be it. I can tell you held no position of authority in your life, otherwise I think you would nt be so one sided. JMO.
Fine for the water .... team & player learns.... message sent .... issue done. If I were a player earning the $$ they do, the fine is relative to the infraction. Or else find a new job if you dont agree. And yea if thats what you think bein a dick is, well so be it. I can tell you held no position of authority in your life, otherwise I think you would nt be so one sided. JMO.
Eat shit, you don't know one thing about me...."I can tell you held no position of authority in your life" FK YOU....Dead wrong. Assjole thing to say tho...
My point isn't about water, It is a conglomeration of things under EM that I see that can make guys not want to play for him...Number 1 being treating players like children, #2 Micromanage the passion, fun out of football for players(it's a game, have to have fun playing it on Sunday at the very least), being a dick as coach! Now some of you say it's right , some say it's wrong....I'm saying it is a good way to lose a team!
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Water, schmater.
We don't know the details. If it was a veteran, who makes millions and millions, he doesn't get a message if you
fine him 3 bucks, and he knows he wasn't supposed to take stuff out of the bar/fridge without paying for it.
If it's a rookie, and he hasn't been around enough to know that it wasn't okay to take stuff and the team would just pay for it...
whatever.
If you were a coach, and a veteran player on your team had done it before several times, and broke other small rules,
wouldn't you hammer him?
It is only bogus as much as you assume details to fit out of angst that the Browns lost.
The Browns are playing with more excitement and aggressiveness than I ever saw while Crennel was coach.
It's the second game, for crying out loud.
Water, schmater.
We don't know the details. If it was a veteran, who makes millions and millions, he doesn't get a message if you
fine him 3 bucks, and he knows he wasn't supposed to take stuff out of the bar/fridge without paying for it.
If it's a rookie, and he hasn't been around enough to know that it wasn't okay to take stuff and the team would just pay for it...
whatever.
If you were a coach, and a veteran player on your team had done it before several times, and broke other small rules,
wouldn't you hammer him?
It is only bogus as much as you assume details to fit out of angst that the Browns lost.
The Browns are playing with more excitement and aggressiveness than I ever saw while Crennel was coach.
It's the second game, for crying out loud.
LOOK < If you read the thread....it starts with a question mark and says "just throwing it out there" I think the Defense will keep us in everygame if the running attack can gain yards and chew clock...that's fundamental. Just pointing out I think it is a total dick moive to fine maximum allowed under collective bargaining agreement for a freaking bottle of water...1,700.00 dollars for a plastic bottle of water? You guys come off like it's nothing....fine the guy sure....1700 bux....is excessive to the maximum!
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RECAP: Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it...
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RECAP: Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it...
RECAP: Moves like this cause players to quit, treating these players like children causes players to quit, DUDE needs to realize that getting the most out of a team means they want to play for you, for the team, for the town and have a ball doing it...
Well the ones that 'quit' or pack it in will be the next round of losers to be shipped out. You can't weed a team of all the freeloaders in one offseason. I'm hopeful that the incoming players buy into what Mangini's selling because just pretending won't cut it.JMO
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Eat shit, you don't know one thing about me...."I can tell you held no position of authority in your life" FK YOU
Maybe you have held positions of authority but it is evident your language skills are somewhat juvenile.
Why are you getting so worked up over a fine??
The guy broke a rule and the team apparently had to pay this guys tab.
When these guys go on the road they have their rooms paid for and the team gives them a wad of cash for meals and incidentals. Seems to me it isn't hard for players to clean up their own tab.
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More bread, please: As salaries soar, pro athletes fed even more cash with road per diems
By Jamie Turner
May 12, 2009, 11:28PM
Ted Crow/The Plain DealerA reminder of long-gone days when professional athletes needed a little help for road expenses, today's per diem payments are an entirely separate avenue of income in the big leagues -- whether it be the NBA, NFL or Major League Baseball.
CLEVELAND -- Pro athletes are treated to pre- and post-game buffets that could stuff a large wedding.
But to show even more gastronomical love -- and because it's in their union contracts -- teams feed a player's wallet well, too.
Despite pulling in multi-million-dollar salaries, players receive money for meals and incidentals while on the road. And it's not Denny's Grand Slam breakfast and Subway foot-long money, either. Two of their per diems could feed a family of four for a week.
This season, the daily meal allowance for Major League Baseball players is $89.50. (It's $20 in the minors.)
In the NFL, players usually travel the day before a game and dine as a team at their hotels. But they also get $90 a day -- $18 for breakfast, $27 for lunch and $45 for dinner, as specified in the contract.
The real kings of the culinary court are NBA players. They get $114 per day, enough to cover, theoretically, the 48-ounce double porterhouse for two, carved tableside, at Morton's, The Steakhouse, at $95.
Like player salaries and the price of stadium beer, meal allowances have escalated though the roof.
Former Indians ace Sam McDowell recalled that in 1962, his first full season in the majors, he made $6,000 and was given $9 a day in meal money. That was when a guy could order cereal with fruit and a cup of coffee for a buck at the team hotel, which he usually did.
"Back then, it almost lasted each day," McDowell said. "A big dinner for me was $6 or $7 with a dollar tip."
Associated Press file photoWhen Rick Manning was patrolling center field for in the Indians in the mid-1970s, a per diem allowance was a necessary and appreciated addition to a player's income and provided an option to the pizza and chicken generally found in clubhouse post-game spreads.
Baseball's per diem had climbed to $19.50 when Rick Manning made the club in 1975, and reached about $40 by the time he retired in 1987. The allowance has more than doubled again since, but that's not all that's changed, food-wise.
When he played, post-game clubhouse meals consisted of boxes of pizza and buckets of fried chicken. "You go into a clubhouse now," the Indians broadcaster said, "the spreads they put out are just like restaurants."
One recent post-game menu posted in the visitors' clubhouse at Progressive Field featured grilled pork chops with hunter sauce, roasted salmon with maple bourbon glaze and ginger-smoked chicken in lemon thyme jus.
Meal allowances, with built-in annual cost-of-living increases, are spelled out in each league's Collective Bargaining Agreement. Baseball players may get the lowest per diem, but they travel the most -- 81 road games per season. This season, that's a sweet $7,249.50.
Only the amount over federal guidelines for what companies should reimburse traveling employees for meals and incidentals -- $39 to $64 a day, depending on the destination -- is taxable income. The rest is tax-free.
"It's called 'meal money,' " said Mike Seghi, the Indians director of team travel, "but it's kind of living money." He hands each player envelopes of cash for an entire road trip as they board the plane.
Ballplayers usually use the dough for dining out and to cover cab fare, toiletries, maybe room service and the $40 to $50 per day that most players tip the visiting clubhouse manager for laying out impressive pre- and post-game spreads.
But meal allowances don't come with instructions. Players don't have to turn in receipts to report how the money's spent. They can use the allowance as they wish.
Or not use it. Eat cheaply and the per diem becomes a nice little bonus.
Former Cavaliers guard Craig Ehlo said teammate Phil Hubbard would buy home appliances with his meal money.
"He passed that [strategy] on to me," said Ehlo, who remembers getting $5 a day for meals in basketball's minor leagues. "I bought my first washer-dryer with my training camp per diem."
Junk food isn't off-limits, but teams want their investments eating well. And most do.
"Lots of sushi and high-end steaks," said Seghi, who started doling out meal money for the Indians when those envelopes contained about $20.
Today, that covers a jar of nuts from the mini-bar.
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Not trying to be a dick but ever since the guy got hired it's been one thing after another of people trying to tear the guy down. I'm willing to give him a chance. Last year everybody was bitching about RAC 'n ROLLS and his spa treatment to the players.
Spa treatment is one thing...I like what Mangini has done in that regard, but for any business to be successful guys have to enjoy going to work and work hard for those in charge......I've had a dick boss before and it totally sapped my energy, drive and passion for my work and workplace, I had no loyalty to him, no respect for him, and kinda rooted against him....because he was a dick to everybody...I don't know if mangini is a dick or not but fining a guy 1700 bux for a water is a BIG DICK move! That's just my opinion....but that's the right way to lose a team!
Spa treatment is one thing...I like what Mangini has done in that regard, but for any business to be successful guys have to enjoy going to work and work hard for those in charge......I've had a dick boss before and it totally sapped my energy, drive and passion for my work and workplace, I had no loyalty to him, no respect for him, and kinda rooted against him....because he was a dick to everybody...I don't know if mangini is a dick or not but fining a guy 1700 bux for a water is a BIG DICK move! That's just my opinion....but that's the right way to lose a team!
I would like to suggest that not paying your bills and assuming that others will pay your freight just because you are an NFL player is a 'BIG DICK MOVE'
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I can't believe you guys have missed the point completely...even after I've explained it twice. It isn't about a fine...it is about management style of EM. Doesn't inpire players and has opposite affect.
@ ballpeen, " Maybe you have held positions of authority but it is evident your language skills are somewhat juvenile."
the dude attacked me personally and I took offense, Asshole thing to say!
"Why are you getting so worked up over a fine??"
the fine is maximum under collective bargaining agreement....1,700.00 for 1 bottle of water....If i was the player or a teamate of the player, I'd think that he was being a dick. 100 bucks gets the message across....I don't know if the player has done this habitually and has taken advantage previously hence the MAX allowed fine but IMO it surely doesn't seem the coach has your back.
"The guy broke a rule and the team apparently had to pay this guys tab." It was 3 dollars....
It is a dick move , period! Little things like this are an idictment of his motivational "style". Would you run through a wall for a coach like that? Rex Ryan has the same team EM had... minus what... 6 players? They just beat the Pats.... Guys want to run through a wall for him. To me the difference is evident...obviously I'm alone in thinking this way....Right
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I can't believe you guys have missed the point completely...even after I've explained it twice. It isn't about a fine...it is about management style of EM. Doesn't inpire players and has opposite affect.
@ ballpeen, " Maybe you have held positions of authority but it is evident your language skills are somewhat juvenile."
the dude attacked me personally and I took offense, Asshole thing to say!
"Why are you getting so worked up over a fine??"
the fine is maximum under collective bargaining agreement....1,700.00 for 1 bottle of water....If i was the player or a teamate of the player, I'd think that he was being a dick. 100 bucks gets the message across....I don't know if the player has done this habitually and has taken advantage previously hence the MAX allowed fine but IMO it surely doesn't seem the coach has your back.
"The guy broke a rule and the team apparently had to pay this guys tab." It was 3 dollars....
It is a dick move , period! Little things like this are an idictment of his motivational "style". Would you run through a wall for a coach like that? Rex Ryan has the same team EM had... minus what... 6 players? They just beat the Pats.... Guys want to run through a wall for him. To me the difference is evident...obviously I'm alone in thinking this way....Right
Rex Ryan has the same team EM had... minus what... 6 players? They just beat the Pats.... Guys want to run through a wall for him. To me the difference is evident...obviously I'm alone in thinking this way....Right
And EM beat NE with the same attitude and players last year, in NE (also went in to NE his first year as HC in 2006 and beat them). I could say guys would run through a wall for him as well.
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@jadbf said:
By using the Maximum allowed. Mangini sent a message.Bingo.
Holy hell Solon, I understand some attachment to a thread you've spawned, but Drunkandstoopid nailed it in about the 5th post. Like Tiger holing one out of the bunker when he can barely even see the flag. Done.
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So Mangini imposed a fine that maybe got the player to think LESS about the specifics of the bottle of water, and more about the over all point he is trying to make.
Exactly my point Golf....the point Em is making, isn't a point that makes a guy run through a wall for you, buy into the system, want to help your coach succeed...etc Not about water or a fine.
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