Training Camp - starts July 29th

Dutch Oven

Listening to The Fan right meow, Daryl Ruiter is going on record right now saying that Watson will be the starting QB to start the season.

Flugel

@dutch-oven said:
Listening to The Fan right meow, Daryl Ruiter is going on record right now saying that Watson will be the starting QB to start the season.

That makes sense because if/when Watson fails, Shedeur comes in with a little less pressure than he would have had if he was the opening day starter with a shorter hook. Either way, I think we'ee gonna see both guys this year...

Dutch Oven

@flugel said:
That makes sense because if/when Watson fails, Shedeur comes in with a little less pressure than he would have had if he was the opening day starter with a shorter hook. Either way, I think we'ee gonna see both guys this year...

If Watson is named the starter, and it appears that is going to happen, it's just a matter of when, not if, Sanders takes over.

Once again, it's been like 700 days since Watson has played. We all saw how well he played the first time that happened.
Watson is made of glass at this point.
It's been since 2020 that Watson was a good starting QB.

tiamat63

Something I was keeping a rough count on - motion usage.

I know it was something this board was vocal about in 2024. In 2025, Coach Stefanski climbed clocked a 54% rate. IiRC, that was a 16 point increase.

Coach Monk, in Baltimore, was around 40-ish percent. Which would be league median in 2017.

By my count from camp, I think the number MAY climb just a little, but ends up no higher than 50% looked like around 4-5 of every 10 plays used pre-snap mo.

So, just a forewarning to the board, don't pile on this as the next trend if you hear how the motion numbers are down by week 4.

Orion

@dutch-oven said:
If Watson is named the starter, and it appears that is going to happen, it's just a matter of when, not if, Sanders takes over.

I agree. Since he joined the Browns I've always said that Watson plays dumb. When he runs, he takes on tacklers. Smart QB's don't do that. They hit the ground. When a franchise QB takes off running with the ball they need to understand that they are the most important person in the entire organization. If he gets hurt, the entire season goes into the shitter, for the whole organization. Watson isn't smart enough to know that. It is for that reason that I've been privately hoping that Shedeur is named the starter (though I've never believed that would be the case). Now, we've seen Shedeur play, what I call dumb. But that's because he's trying to become the franchise QB. He's got to put it all on the line.

Flugel

@orion said:
I agree. Since he joined the Browns I've always said that Watson plays dumb. When he runs, he takes on tacklers. Smart QB's don't do that. They hit the ground. When a franchise QB takes off running with the ball they need to understand that they are the most important person in the entire organization. If he gets hurt, the entire season goes into the shitter, for the whole organization. Watson isn't smart enough to know that. It is for that reason that I've been privately hoping that Shedeur is named the starter (though I've never believed that would be the case). Now, we've seen Shedeur play, what I call dumb. But that's because he's trying to become the franchise QB. He's got to put it all on the line.

I really enjoyed the way you aticulated that! I get the impression a lot of us see the QB situation playing out the same way.

Yeah, Watson does a very bad Larry Csonka imitation when he has the ball - which assures us he's not the brightest apple in the orchard playing QB. Let's pray he doesn't try to imitate the way Garo Yepremian threw the football (against Washington once upon a Super Bowl FG attempt gone seriously wrong). On the other hand, while Shedeur speaks fluent "Dumb Jock" - I get the sense he loves football enough to the extent he can become a good QB here. It seems to me his whole life revolves around wanting to make his dad proud; and I don't see any quit in the young man's "Vision Quest"... Monken is going to have a challenge in speeding up Shedeur's processor but I think it's doable. Prepare every week for the anticipated pre-snap reads for situational alignments/frequencies/tendencies seen on film for each upcoming opponent. Once he gets that down he'll be releasing the ball quicker-quick enough.

Bob806

@flugel said:
I really enjoyed the way you aticulated that! I get the impression a lot of us see the QB situation playing out the same way.
Yeah, Watson does a very bad Larry Csonka imitation when he has the ball - which assures us he's not the brightest apple in the orchard playing QB. Let's pray he doesn't try to imitate the way Garo Yepremian threw the football (against Washington once upon a Super Bowl FG attempt gone seriously wrong). On the other hand, while Shedeur speaks fluent "Dumb Jock" - I get the sense he loves football enough to the extent he can become a good QB here. It seems to me his whole life revolves around wanting to make his dad proud; and I don't see any quit in the young man's "Vision Quest"... Monken is going to have a challenge in speeding up Shedeur's processor but I think it's doable. Prepare every week for the anticipated pre-snap reads for situational alignments/frequencies/tendencies seen on film for each upcoming opponent. Once he gets that down he'll be releasing the ball quicker-quick enough.

I tend to agree here, but old habits can take time to correct. He was running for his life here last year, and the last 2 years at Colorado. Let's hope it is fixable.

The X factor is Jimmy Haslam. Please leave Monken alone, let the HC decide, not the $46 million salary (or whatever it is now).

Bob806

@dutch-oven said:
Listening to The Fan right meow, Daryl Ruiter is going on record right now saying that Watson will be the starting QB to start the season.

I give you credit.

I just can't handle Cleveland radio sports talk anymore. It's all "good cop vs bad cop," takes. Long gone are guys like Geoff Sindelar, who seemed to have balanced takes.

Flugel

@bob806 said:
I tend to agree here, but old habits can take time to correct. He was running for his life here last year, and the last 2 years at Colorado. Let's hope it is fixable.
The X factor is Jimmy Haslam. Please leave Monken alone, let the HC decide, not the $46 million salary (or whatever it is now).

Good points Bob! Old habits can be very tough to break. Even worse at Colorado, they had one of the worst running games in Division IA College Football - so defensive pass rushers were often in pin their ears back mode vrs Pat Shurmur's passing game @ Colorado. Here's a cut and paste:

Our other example of old habits: It'll be a breath of fresh air if Jimmy doesn't interfere with Monken's plans or coaching.

Dutch Oven

@bob806 said:
I give you credit.
I just can't handle Cleveland radio sports talk anymore. It's all "good cop vs bad cop," takes. Long gone are guys like Geoff Sindelar, who seemed to have balanced takes.

Here's the thing (and this is more for the out-of-town Browns fans on here), I can't think of one local sports guy who wants Watson to win this battle. Not one guy on The Fan, not one writer, beat reporter, or guy on shows like The Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. There is no "Watson Clique", despite what some unhinged Shadeur fans on-line might say. Any criticisms or critiques on Sanders is considered "hater talk" or even more laughably, racist. I mean, Sanders' competition is another black fellow.

If/when a local guy says that they think, or have heard, that Watson has the lead, it isn't because they are rooting for this. Zac Jackson and Jason Lloyd have both openly thought the idea of Watson ever playing for the Browns again as a complete waste of time.

So I think the coverage on this has been balanced. The guy no one wants to start is being talked about - probably accurately - as the guy who most likely is somewhat to solidly in the lead.

Orion

@dutch-oven said:
I can't think of one local sports guy who wants Watson to win this battle.

Right. And I've already stated why I don't want him to win the starting job.

But in reality, if he was worth even 1/3rd of what we traded and paid for him, then in reality he should have no problem beating out a 5th round draft pick that virtually nobody wanted on their team.

All of the talking heads, the Zac Jacksons, Anthony Limas, Ken Carmens, etc. act and talk like fans....like us. Watson's not the future. We've gotta find out if Sanders is the future so we can decide about drafting a QB in '27, or not. That's thinking and acting like us. The view from 10,000 ft. But the players playing this week's game (hypothetically, we're in the regular season), they're playing to win the game. THIS week's game. They don't give a rats ass about next April's draft. They're working their asses off to win each and every week of THIS season. As is the HC and his staff. And the players see the QB's every freakin' day in practice. They usually know who has shown to be the best QB for the upcoming game. It is the obligation of the HC to put in the guy who gives his team of players the best chance to win the game. THIS game. Not next year's game(s). - Now if the team is losing and a HC deems that a spark is needed...or the team has lost such that they ain't gonna be making the playoffs, then it's more understanding to the players to see what they have in terms of the future beyond this game / season.

The HC can't give a rats ass what Zac Jackson thinks because the HC's job depends on whether or not he can deliver wins with the team he has right now. Owners are a fickled bunch. They'll spout out a bunch of reasons why the team wasn't good enough to win...and fire the coach anyway.

Marvin the Martian

@orion said:
Right. And I've already stated why I don't want him to win the starting job.
But in reality, if he was worth even 1/3rd of what we traded and paid for him, then in reality he should have no problem beating out a 5th round draft pick that virtually nobody wanted on their team.
All of the talking heads, the Zac Jacksons, Anthony Limas, Ken Carmens, etc. act and talk like fans....like us. Watson's not the future. We've gotta find out if Sanders is the future so we can decide about drafting a QB in '27, or not. That's thinking and acting like us. The view from 10,000 ft. But the players playing this week's game (hypothetically, we're in the regular season), they're playing to win the game. THIS week's game. They don't give a rats ass about next April's draft. They're working their asses off to win each and every week of THIS season. As is the HC and his staff. And the players see the QB's every freakin' day in practice. They usually know who has shown to be the best QB for the upcoming game. It is the obligation of the HC to put in the guy who gives his team of players the best chance to win the game. THIS game. Not next year's game(s). - Now if the team is losing and a HC deems that a spark is needed...or the team has lost such that they ain't gonna be making the playoffs, then it's more understanding to the players to see what they have in terms of the future beyond this game / season.
The HC can't give a rats ass what Zac Jackson thinks because the HC's job depends on whether or not he can deliver wins with the team he has right now. Owners are a fickled bunch. They'll spout out a bunch of reasons why the team wasn't good enough to win...and fire the coach anyway.

As an out of town fan: this.

tiamat63

@syd said:
speaking of wr's being cut seems a udfa from some small ass collage Floriea will make the team again this year, who was that that talked shit about small collage guys that go undrafted ? I forgot who , must not be that important of a poster

Flugel

@dutch-oven said:
Here's the thing (and this is more for the out-of-town Browns fans on here), I can't think of one local sports guy who wants Watson to win this battle. Not one guy on The Fan, not one writer, beat reporter, or guy on shows like The Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show. There is no "Watson Clique", despite what some unhinged Shadeur fans on-line might say. Any criticisms or critiques on Sanders is considered "hater talk" or even more laughably, racist. I mean, Sanders' competition is another black fellow.
If/when a local guy says that they think, or have heard, that Watson has the lead, it isn't because they are rooting for this. Zac Jackson and Jason Lloyd have both openly thought the idea of Watson ever playing for the Browns again as a complete waste of time.
So I think the coverage on this has been balanced. The guy no one wants to start is being talked about - probably accurately - as the guy who most likely is somewhat to solidly in the lead.

The biggest problem with 100% of that Dutch is in spite of ALL that above - Watson is here with the biggest guaranteed contract we've ever seen at the most important position on this franchise in franchise history. It's a persistent distraction that flares up any time he gets injured/reinjured to the extent he's never going to be that guy that was good or great as a young Pro Bowl QB that erased a late deficit vs Josh Allen's Bills in the playoffs. As I said in this thread yesterday - the earlier version was a million miles ago.

That Houston franchise has most recently turned an (AP) NFL Rookie of the Year C.J. Stroud into a QB that lacked a lot of confidence and poise in himself. One has to wonder if it's just a mere coincidence or an inevitable destination for the most important position on their franchise. What do they have in common with Cleveland - an ownership that repeatedly didn't understand all that goes into developing a young QB from their very 1st pick David Carr and forward. Okay so what about C.J. Stroud's Rookie of the Year proving there was development Flugel? First, I LIKE the guy and can't imagine he can't get coached back on the right track again. I don't see enough of their games to give an accurate summaty on him. They have very good WRs there for so here's one of the media analysts in the video link sharing what he's seen in Stroud's recent trend of concern there:

Orion

@dutch-oven said:
I can't think of one local sports guy who wants Watson to win this battle.

Well, not that he WANTS him to win the battle:

“If you want to, just name Deshaun the starter and let’s get going. I’m dead serious. I’m not the only one accepting reality here. I’m not the only one. There’s reality to real Browns fans and then there’s whatever’s going over the internet. Yeah, you know who I want to start, but I will accept the reality of a first-time head coach, knowing the nature of the business, and needing to win. If a veteran is able to get them in and out of the huddle and knows a little bit more of things, I’m willing to accept the reality,” Carman said.

Dutch Oven

@orion said:
Well, not that he WANTS him to win the battle:
“If you want to, just name Deshaun the starter and let’s get going. I’m dead serious. I’m not the only one accepting reality here. I’m not the only one. There’s reality to real Browns fans and then there’s whatever’s going over the internet. Yeah, you know who I want to start, but I will accept the reality of a first-time head coach, knowing the nature of the business, and needing to win. If a veteran is able to get them in and out of the huddle and knows a little bit more of things, I’m willing to accept the reality,” Carman said.

I have zero problems with what Ken Carman says here.

Orion

@dutch-oven said:
I have zero problems with what Ken Carman says here.

Right. Ken Carmen, you, me, all of us don't want Watson to be the starter. That's because we're allowed to view things through a different lens. A coach can't use that lens until hopes for the playoffs have been extinguished. And as you stated, even if Watson is named the starter, it won't be long before he hurts himself and Shedeur gets to play.

edit and add: .....perhaps there's still hope.

Orion

Orion

Yeayyyyyy!!!

Orion

“Shedeur was great today. I wasn’t sure, maybe Saturday [he] would’ve preferred to be with the ones, and I’d be [angry] if he wasn’t, because all of our guys should want to be with the ones. I’ve always said that about Shedeur. But even over the last week or so, Deshaun has played better, he’s looked better, he’s made better decisions. I think some of that grows, like all of us, as they have success. Their confidence grows with the success they have every day,” Monken said.