From an 'At the Game' Perspective

hammertime

@atenears said:
I do not agree. I think Quinn is a bust. DA is all we have that is why he is playing. Mangini made a lot of tough decisions to prepare for yesterday and obviously they sat well with the players because they played with heart.

"It sat well with the players"???

Are you indicating a lack of effort and heart with the other guy? If so, thats lame on their part.

Buffalo is another penciled in win, we are running out of the easy ones. Any word if Robiskie will be ready to play?

mopaji

@thebestplayersplay said:
Do they keep a stat on game losing drives? Bet he has Palmer beat there too.

You have a point. It's not nearly enough to say DA has peaked and is finished, but you have a point. I would like to see each QB's game-losing drives in their first 2 years in the league though. I'll bet the numbers are pretty close.

mopaji

Masters said:
And on 2 other occassions he threw near picks. If you are going to say he's cut down on dumb throws and pump up his throw aways, you might not want to forget about those.

Yeah but we can't really comment on plays that never actually happened. Like, Brady should of had 4 TDs and zero picks. I won't argue for or against things that never happened. I will say a few times I thought he got away with some. But all QBs have those plays in every game. Still, the fact remains, those picks never happened.

mopaji

@hammertime said:
"It sat well with the players"???
Are you indicating a lack of effort and heart with the other guy? If so, thats lame on their part.

Buffalo is another penciled in win, we are running out of the easy ones. Any word if Robiskie will be ready to play?

He played yesterday on special teams so either he's close to being ready or Mangini is running out of options.

DawgTracker

@thebestplayersplay said:
That's all that needed to be stated there. Stop sugar coating your boys nuts. He sucks, he's always sucked, and he hasn't progressed or improved one lick since his first start in the NFL. These types of INTs are the norm for DA, not the exception. You can try telling people who know football that DA is good until you are blue in the face. We know better.

You cannot say that this game was not an improvement for DA if you watched the game without bias. He threw nice short passes which he had never done before, even if you ignore everything else.

mopaji

@fan-of-steel-1 said:
Atenears, you know I have posted here for years. I don't hide when my team loses. I came here to talk football because I noticed the poor decision your coach had made through the preseason and now again with the QB situation. Throughout the league it has been considered a bad move by Mangini to keep the QB competition going as long as he did and everyone knew that as soon as Quinn made some mistakes he would switch the QB. It does nothing for team chemistry and everythng for tearing a team apart.
I have nothing invested in the browns. I have a very unbiased view of your QBs because of that. What I would like is for the browns to get their shit together and become a good team again. Working on a franchise QB would be a step in the right direction and Quinn is that person. DA is a pathetic QB for the most part. Yeah he can throw a better long ball, but when you need him he does not play consistant and in reality has had less than 1/2 a season where he played well.

A Steelers fan saying Quinn is the guy? Like Rush supporting Hillary.

Well, as a Browns fan I say Batch or Dixon gives you guys the best chance to beat the Browns. Also, if you wanna run effectively on us, you may wanna sign Edge off of free agency and turn him loose. Shaun Alexander is also out there.

? Masters

@mopaji said:
Yeah but we can't really comment on plays that never actually happened. Like, Brady should of had 4 TDs and zero picks. I won't argue for or against things that never happened. I will say a few times I thought he got away with some. But all QBs have those plays in every game. Still, the fact remains, those picks never happened.

But you do see how saying "He has cut down on his dumb throws", when he had what were 2 dumb throws that he got away with, don't go hand in hand.

TheBestPlayersPlay

@dawgtracker said:
You cannot say that this game was not an improvement for DA if you watched the game without bias. He threw nice short passes which he had never done before, even if you ignore everything else.

Actually I can clearly say it. We've seen much better games out of DA than this past game. Does that = degression? Hope all you want that DA is the real deal, I know that's all some of you have left. When DA keeps shitting the bed and losing games like he did this past game, it will be the coaches fault, or BEs fault, or the OCs fault ....right? I mean they only did everying thing in their power to give DA the tools to win this game against a poor Bengals team. (they will be .500 at best) They gave him a legit #2 receiver, a legit pass catching TE, they called screen plays numerous times, and they even racked up 200+ yards on ST!! (non of which was done for BQ) Don't count on that production out of Cribbs every game.

mopaji

Masters said:
But you do see how saying "He has cut down on his dumb throws", when he had what were 2 dumb throws that he got away with, don't go hand in hand.

I'm not contradicting myself I'm just trying to be fair about this. He got away a few but each week every QB does. How many times in any game do you hear "almost picked off by __________"? All in all though, he's making better decisions. In some cases, like the pick, he's making better decisions than his recievers. I think with reps and attention from the coaches DA will be a solid starter for a long time in this league. And I am pretty happy we have him. Could you imagine if he was traded like fans wanted in the off-season?! Ho-ly shit.

TheBestPlayersPlay

@mopaji said:
A Steelers fan saying Quinn is the guy? Like Rush supporting Hillary.
Well, as a Browns fan I say Batch or Dixon gives you guys the best chance to beat the Browns. Also, if you wanna run effectively on us, you may wanna sign Edge off of free agency and turn him loose. Shaun Alexander is also out there.

Understand your point, but most TRUE Steelers fans I know want the Browns to get better so we can have a rivalry again. As is, it's dead.

Fan Of STEEL 1

@atenears said:
I do not agree. I think Quinn is a bust. DA is all we have that is why he is playing. Mangini made a lot of tough decisions to prepare for yesterday and obviously they sat well with the players because they played with heart.

How many games has Quinn started? And you are calling him a bust? No wonder you guys can't get anywhere if your coach thinks like that. You have to develop players and let them work through their mistakes and get better. Quinn is not going to get better in practice or on the sidelines. DA you already know what you have... A one hit wonder who has done nothing but go downhill since the first half of a season two years ago.

? Masters

@mopaji said:
I'm not contradicting myself I'm just trying to be fair about this. He got away a few but each week every QB does. How many times in any game do you hear "almost picked off by __________"? All in all though, he's making better decisions. In some cases, like the pick, he's making better decisions than his recievers. I think with reps and attention from the coaches DA will be a solid starter for a long time in this league. And I am pretty happy we have him. Could you imagine if he was traded like fans wanted in the off-season?! Ho-ly shit.

I would think it is a contradiction. All 3 examples were still bad decisions and the typical bad ones we have seen over and over. I could also add him rolling right into a sack (that would be back to back weeks of him basically sacking himself). If those 3 or 4 weren't in the games, then I can see saying improved decisions. But when the same mistakes are there, it's hard for me to note improvement.

I hope you a right, but from college to today all the coaching and reps have done very little to improve his completion %, turn overs, and questionable decisions.

Can I image? What would be the difference from today? CLE would still be 0-4.

Lumbergh

Masters said:
I could also add him rolling right into a sack

yeah Anderson got sacked one time in 50 passing plays. what a crapper.

Lumbergh

Masters said:
Can I image? What would be the difference from today? CLE would still be 0-4.

If Anderson was traded they would not only be 0-4 but also #32 in rankings and the laughingstock of the NFL like they were last week.

? Masters

@lumbergh said:
yeah Anderson got sacked one time in 50 passing plays. what a crapper.

Except it was twice in 48 (for 20 lost yards). The point was the total anyway, it was how it occured.

Fan Of STEEL 1

@jadbf said:
Hmm I sure didn't see you in here after the cincy loss? and good old holmes has been a no show for a while. The only steeler troll with any real balls is SChuck.
I am an RN and worked 4 days last week. I also don't come over here every day, it's a browns board. I came over here because I heard that Mangini put in DA and wanted to chat about it. I find it hard to believe that anyone is supporting this decision by Mangini since he either should have made it before the preseason or damn near then. What he did was create a QB controversy and that does not help either QB gain confidence nor does it build TEAM chemistry.

As for your view of our QB situation. Take a freaking hike. WHile I am one of the BIGGEST DA HATERS on this board, and still don't think he'll ever be a "franchise QB" for this team. Quinn was PAAAATHETIC in his 3 starts. and the offense followed suit.

When have you guys ever had a franchise QB? You have to give them room to make mistakes and Quinn has had a couple of games. Had he been given the team and shown the respect that the starting QB should get he may have played with more confidence and done better. You will never know because your coach is taking a backass approach that has been shown through history to be poor judgement.

Sure Anderson was Anderson for this game, and IMO cost us a win. BUt the very fact that we were able to see some progress and growth by two of the younger players on this team can be directly attibuted to the change at QB. Now, can some argue that the playcalling changed too and the personell that the coaching staff decided to start this time made a huge difference. and that they did it purposfully to screw quinn.

How can you say that other players progressed because of the QB in the game? He had nothing to do with their game. They ran their routs, played their positions like they should with anyone in the game. The only thing DA has is a longer ball. Other than that it's just like you said... DA was DA for this game and cost you a win and gives no experience to the QB that should be your future at this time. Even if Quinn eventually is replaced by a draft pick and becomes your backup, the experience he would gain for the future is worth more than anything DA can do for your team.

Me? I think all those things made a difference and I applaud the coaching staff for being willing to make changes. But I'd rather see more than just the QB get a chance to progress in this offense. And I didn't see that when Quinn was QB.

That is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Most of the NFL questions Mangini's decision making so far. You can't get quinn to be a better QB on the bench and DA is not going to go far enough to make it worth your time to keep him in there.

Fooleeze

I just want to add that I was also at the game, and I certainly didn't get the warm-fuzzy about DA's game as others did. He certainly played 'decent' by DA standards, and 'better' by the standards Quinn set over the past few games, but there was a lot left on the field in this game as well because of DA's inaccuracy.

That red-zone interception was not miscommunication, it was simply a BAD throw. He was looking right at Heiden and didn't even see the DB coming at him from the outside. Threw it low and behind Heiden, and we had the result. If Heiden was really supposed to curl that around, then it still would have been picked off, because there was a DB right behind him, on his right hip.

The throw where he led MoMass out of bounds and the "TD-ruled down at the 1" throw were both beautiful throws and catches.

It became VERY clear to me in this game that one of the biggest issues in the passing attack was that nobody was getting open in the previous games. Cribbs couldn't get open, so they put him back on special teams. Edwards isn't getting open, because he's being double-teamed all the time. By putting MoMass in there, there's finally now a player getting open, demanding more attention, and spreading out the defense. The only players that seemed to be getting open in the past were the 'dump-off' players, the RBs, TEs, and sometimes Furrey.

Lumbergh

Masters said:
Except it was twice in 48 (for 20 lost yards). The point was the total anyway, it was how it occured.

that's right the flea flicker play was considered a sack too.

FYI 48 passes and 2 sacks makes 50 passing plays.

ATENEARS

@fan-of-steel-1 said:
How many games has Quinn started? And you are calling him a bust? No wonder you guys can't get anywhere if your coach thinks like that. You have to develop players and let them work through their mistakes and get better. Quinn is not going to get better in practice or on the sidelines. DA you already know what you have... A one hit wonder who has done nothing but go downhill since the first half of a season two years ago.

I don't want to debate QB's ... we have our starter, and the lead topic has plenty of plays listed that I'd like to discuss. If you didn't see the game, find another thread to participate in.

Sorry, don't mean to be a dick, but I want to move forward from yesterday.

car ramrod

Masters said:
I would think it is a contradiction. All 3 examples were still bad decisions and the typical bad ones we have seen over and over. I could also add him rolling right into a sack (that would be back to back weeks of him basically sacking himself). If those 3 or 4 weren't in the games, then I can see saying improved decisions. But when the same mistakes are there, it's hard for me to note improvement.
I hope you a right, but from college to today all the coaching and reps have done very little to improve his completion %, turn overs, and questionable decisions.

Can I image? What would be the difference from today? CLE would still be 0-4.

You are expecting him to be perfect. That will not happen. Everyone throws picks and everyone rolls into sacks (EVERYONE). You have a mental clock in your head and also you know the right side of your line is not the best in the world (in our case) and he is looking to his receivers to the left. Nothing there and you move. Very common.

2 other throws should have been picks? First off what two are you talking about and did the defender even touch the balls? If you are talking about the one that missed Furrey then yes it was behind him and a bad throw, no doubt. But wasnt close to being picked. It hit his hand while trying to reach behing him and went straight to the ground. And the robert royal one hit him in the facemask and almost stuck there. That is not DA's fault. You have to expect the ball to come and put your god damn hands up. But I'll listen to what two you say SHOULD HAVE been picks that werent.