The Measurement
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Where is the ONE intelligent Steeler poster that comes here often to post. He usually makes sense.
The spot of the ball was a gift to big Ben. When watching the ref that was running up had the right spot. Then all of the sudden it was put a YARD further then it actually was. And after all that they still were short. And the refs give it to them? I'm still speechless. ANYONE that watched that play saw big BEN was short the 1st time and the time after they gave him that gift as a spot. Unbelievable.
Now the catch of Hines Ward. In my opinion and everyone else should be on board that, that was a catch. Rolled over two times and then lost the ball. IMO opinion TD. But in the NFL rulebook this year they said when catching a ball in the endzone for a TD you must maintain control through the whole process when hitting the GROUND. He didn't so by rule no catch.
You might have watched Sunday night football with the play to Johnny Knox. Where he didn't hit the ground got two feet in and then got the ball knocked out of his hands. Still a TD by rule cause he maintained possession of the ball withOUT hitting the ground.
In our opinion Ward caught the ball. But the nfl rules say he didn't. And he shouldn't have been in a position to catch shit because it was Clevelands ball. If they were playing the Patriots or Colts I would have to believe that it goes the other way.
And why did Mangini not run out there and lose his mind?
Where is the ONE intelligent Steeler poster that comes here often to post. He usually makes sense.
The spot of the ball was a gift to big Ben. When watching the ref that was running up had the right spot. Then all of the sudden it was put a YARD further then it actually was. And after all that they still were short. And the refs give it to them? I'm still speechless. ANYONE that watched that play saw big BEN was short the 1st time and the time after they gave him that gift as a spot. Unbelievable.
Now the catch of Hines Ward. In my opinion and everyone else should be on board that, that was a catch. Rolled over two times and then lost the ball. IMO opinion TD. But in the NFL rulebook this year they said when catching a ball in the endzone for a TD you must maintain control through the whole process when hitting the GROUND. He didn't so by rule no catch.
You might have watched Sunday night football with the play to Johnny Knox. Where he didn't hit the ground got two feet in and then got the ball knocked out of his hands. Still a TD by rule cause he maintained possession of the ball withOUT hitting the ground.
In our opinion Ward caught the ball. But the nfl rules say he didn't. And he shouldn't have been in a position to catch shit because it was Clevelands ball. If they were playing the Patriots or Colts I would have to believe that it goes the other way.
And why did Mangini not run out there and lose his mind?
Thank-you, saved me a post and long drwan out explanation. In a nut shell: By NFL Rule change, THAT was not a catch. They have been enforcing that rule since the biginning of the season, just as if you are forced out of bounds on a catch, it is no longer a catch had they determined you would have been inbounds without the bump. New rules ... end of story.
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suns said:
http://i923.photobucket.com/albums/ad76/su...6aa6f505e28.jpgYour welcome.
I've watched football for over 40 years and NEVER seen a meaurement botched until this one. That said, I'm not sure if it was botched or just PREPAID like the Superbowl in Detroit was.
I know Pittsburgh fans want to pretend they got screwed on pass to Ward in the end zone the very next play. Basically you still have 3 points awarded to a team that SHOULD have lost possession of the ball. That wasn't even close enough to measure unless of course the spot got shadey in the first place. As usual, the Rooneys got it covered.
I don't really think Pittsburgh needed the help today but as usual somebody was all too ambitious to provide it wearing the black and white.
- Tom F.
I've watched football for over 40 years and NEVER seen a meaurement botched until this one. That said, I'm not sure if it was botched or just PREPAID like the Superbowl in Detroit was.
I know Pittsburgh fans want to pretend they got screwed on pass to Ward in the end zone the very next play. Basically you still have 3 points awarded to a team that SHOULD have lost possession of the ball. That wasn't even close enough to measure unless of course the spot got shadey in the first place. As usual, the Rooneys got it covered.
I don't really think Pittsburgh needed the help today but as usual somebody was all too ambitious to provide it wearing the black and white.
- Tom F.
Those weren't flags being dropped in Detroit, they were terrible towels. The Hines Ward td was a touchdown because the catch was complete once his elbow hit the ground... the measurement was pure pathetic...
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I've watched football for over 40 years and NEVER seen a meaurement botched until this one. That said, I'm not sure if it was botched or just PREPAID like the Superbowl in Detroit was.
I know Pittsburgh fans want to pretend they got screwed on pass to Ward in the end zone the very next play. Basically you still have 3 points awarded to a team that SHOULD have lost possession of the ball. That wasn't even close enough to measure unless of course the spot got shadey in the first place. As usual, the Rooneys got it covered.
I don't really think Pittsburgh needed the help today but as usual somebody was all too ambitious to provide it wearing the black and white.
- Tom F.
Its funny how you forget their was a major holding completley missed on your first td. Everyone seen it on the intial play and the announcer even pointed it out as it happened. Then the replay just magnified how obvious it was. But go ahead and be a typical Browns fan; deny any call has ever helped you and refuse to admitt you lost fair and sqaure. That kind of attitude is why your team sucks.
Sivlerback DPOY said:
Its funny how you forget their was a major holding completley missed on your first td. Everyone seen it on the intial play and the announcer even pointed it out as it happened. Then the replay just magnified how obvious it was. But go ahead and be a typical Browns fan; deny any call has ever helped you and refuse to admitt you lost fair and sqaure. That kind of attitude is why your team sucks.Yeah, except it wasn't a hold and they cleared it up after the next commercial break by showing the replay. Plus, it had no bearing on the result of the play so its a good non-call. So basically, you're just talking with no real reason or basis.
The bad spot matters because it was a huge momentum shift when we stopped them and it resulted in 3 points instead if us getting the ball back with 2 time outs and at leas ta chance to score.
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All I can say is that I've watched ALOT of football in my time and I have never, not once in my entire life seen an angle shot of a camera matter. The shot I am looking at right this minute that was emailed to me by my friend asking me WTF the refs were doing is the same exact shot I see from a camera on ever signal measurement I'm ever seen. The ball is short, with air in between the front of the ball and the marker.
You can't say that it didn't matter. You can't say that it didn't effect the outcome. Ya the game is over, but I look at it this way. Big Gay and the Steelers are in field goal range on 4 and 1 with a 7 point lead so instead of taking the easy points and extending the lead, the arrogant morons go for it, and our defensive line stops Gay cold. This Pumps up the Defense, makes the Steelers look like the morons they are, and at worst keeps the game at 14-7 going into half time. That's a hell of a different story than what ended up happening.
The officials need to have some type of explanation. Like everybody else said, if this was a PAT'S game or a NYG's game you'd turn on ESPN right now and it would be the only thing being talked about. If an easy call like this is so mishandled, how is anybody suppose to feel like the refs have any credibility.
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that's short, unless like people said the stick isn't actually the first down marker. I don't see how a camera angle makes a difference there, pictures tell the tale. I still think we would of lost sure, but you don't know how it would of changed momentum and confidence.
I think the thing that's downright terrible however more than anything else is the obvious bias the announcers had for the steelers. It was honest to God sickening. This was the call when cribbs ran it back:
" *sigh* cribbs looks like he has something there, and he's got the sideline"
"OMG DID YOU SEE THAT HOLD, THEY CLEARLY GOT AWAY WITH A MISSED CALL THERE!"
and on all those friking fumbles in the third it'd be like:
"WHAT AN EXCELLENT PLAY BY AN ALL PRO, JUST A GREAT PLAY!"
to "well Willie never really had the ball and the browns were fortunate to fall on it"
It may not bother you guys, but it really is just sickening to me. It's not just the steelers either I suppose, the pats and cowboys get the same bias too.
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normally, anyone with a basic understanding of geometry, which Freak does not have, would know that an oblique viewing angle would also cause the same oblique angle to show between the centerline of the chain and the bottom of the photo (law of supplements).....but the 2 are parallel, meaning the oblique angle is so small that the sine of a small angle is negligible under 10 degrees......thus the linear translation of that small angle is also negligible.
just because the "pink tag" is slightly turned does not mean the view is at an angle, but rather the person holding the stick is not holding it straight. pretty weak argument for such a blown call, but you can try and back that up with numbers if ya like.....
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Actually, it was a first down, because the guy holding the post, hadn't leaned it backwards at a 45 degree angle to make it touch the ball yet.
It's a pittspuke rule of measuring.
Like the old hit on Carson Palmer that blew his knee so the squeelers could go to the superbowl. It wasn't really an intentional hit
on Palmer's knee, it was just a perfect accident.
All these years, and I have never seen any angle of measurement for a first down, college or pro, that was not what it looked like.
Even a half inch, quarter inch, is what it is, and what it's called.
But not in corrupt Pittspuke land.
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Formerly Stone said:
For those of you who are parents..........When your 8 year old son has one tantrum after another, insisting that you are mean and that you love his brother more than him; do you try to explain that feeling sorry for yourself, and inventing reasons to feel sorry for yourself, will not serve you well when you grow up? Or do you just spank him?
We really don't care about your future well being so consider yourself spanked!
AGAIN!
Actually, we try to teach our children right from wrong. In this case, we show them how others cheat, but then point to the women in the stands and show them how God punishes those cheaters.
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Formerly Stone said:
And when your 8 year old comes home from school, because he actually goes to school, and says "but daddy, why are you the only one who thinks this way am i the only one with two daddies?"......what do you say then?fixed
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Dude, if we got that first down it would have been over! Browns 56 Steelers 14!
Seriously though, you can't compare a holding call (subjective) to a measurement call (objective). The ball crosses the plain or it doesn't. I have never watched a football measurement and got fooled by the angle of the camera, that logic doesn't hold water. Besides, every measurement cameramen get right at the first down marker so they can zoom in. I can't fathom how an official could make a "mistake" on a measurement call. Get ready for the browns to file a grievance and the officials to come out with some BS statement then everyone will move on to next week.
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hey moron, you had lost on fourth down, that means our ball. NO MATTER WHAT SPIN YOU PUT ON THAT, IT'S CLEVELAND BALL. Nice job paying the ref's again,
That bad call led to three poinst for the Steelers. The non-call on the holding bad call got your team 7 points. 12 losses in a row, but its okay, blame others (refs) not yourselves.
Sivlerback DPOY said:
That bad call led to three poinst for the Steelers. The non-call on the holding bad call got your team 7 points. 12 losses in a row, but its okay, blame others (refs) not yourselves.The non pick call added seven points to your total.
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would it really have mattered? We played piss poor today on both sides of the ball, and DA still has no accuracy or touch on his passes
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Does anyone have a screen shot of that measurement? You must know the one. I'd love to see it again.
Funny how these controversies are ignored by the "experts" at halftime and during the post game.
It was shown from the Back Angle. We didn't get to see the Strait across shot . just the back angle, NO Way do the Refs call it a 1st Down if it wasn't ,please. Add to that IF the refs were "Helping" Pittsburgh they damn sure wouldn't have overturned Hines Wards TD which easily could have been ruled a Catch , esp. since it WAS Ruled a catch in the 1st place , and needed irrefutable evidence (Which there wasn't , he lost the ball on his 2nd Roll over) a little common sense here please. I don't blame you guys for being pissed in general , but the measurement had nothing to do with the loss. It was a First down.
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
It was shown from the Back Angle. We didn't get to see the Strait across shot . just the back angle, NO Way do the Refs call it a 1st Down if it wasn't ,please. Add to that IF the refs were "Helping" Pittsburgh they damn sure wouldn't have overturned Hines Wards TD which easily could have been ruled a Catch , esp. since it WAS Ruled a catch in the 1st place , and needed irrefutable evidence (Which there wasn't , he lost the ball on his 2nd Roll over) a little common sense here please. I don't blame you guys for being pissed in general , but the measurement had nothing to do with the loss. It was a First down.i don't think that is the case. The Ball was moving around the whole time. He never secured it to his body. Esp when he hit the ground. IMO.
As far as the measurement goes, At what angle would you have to be looking at that for it to look short and be good is my question. I could see the other way around where it looked short but was good, I just dont see how that could work though. Seem no good to me.
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Formerly Stone said:
For those of you who are parents..........When your 8 year old son has one tantrum after another, insisting that you are mean and that you love his brother more than him; do you try to explain that feeling sorry for yourself, and inventing reasons to feel sorry for yourself, will not serve you well when you grow up? Or do you just spank him?
We really don't care about your future well being so consider yourself spanked!
AGAIN!
Actually, we try to teach our children right from wrong. In this case, we show them how others cheat, but then point to the women in the stands and show them how God punishes those cheaters.
Actually, we try to teach our children right from wrong. In this case, we show them how others cheat, but then point to the women in the stands and show them how God punishes those cheaters.
Dude your the Biggest freaking Baby I ever seen. So your saying the the Refs GAVE us a first down , and THEN decided to take a TD off the board right after ?? LOL...Good lord have mercy ... And Weather it was a Catch or not doesn't matter , THey ALREADY Cheated to GIVE us the 1st down and We said KOOL and Jammed a TD down your throats , so Common Sense says ( and I KNOW thats a stretch in BITTERBROWNLAND) but, its says the Refs would just review and say " After Further review The ruling on the Field stands" After all they are CHEATING for Pittsburgh ...right ???
Come on, they used Terrible Towels for Flags in Super~Bowl XL , right ?? What a buncha Total Azzzz~wipes you guys are ! Not a stitch of Common Sense. "Stupid is as Stupid does" and thats the Rule and not the exception on this Board. BITTER BITTER BITTER Fans. I dont blame you for being tired of losing I REALLY dont , but to totally lack common sense ? Amazing ... They are Cheating you on one call , and Turn around and try to make up for it a few plays later ? Dumb Dumb Dumb ...ANTEATER is the King of Dumb !!
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Actually, we try to teach our children right from wrong. In this case, we show them how others cheat, but then point to the women in the stands and show them how God punishes those cheaters.
Dude your the Biggest freaking Baby I ever seen. So your saying the the Refs GAVE us a first down , and THEN decided to take a TD off the board right after ?? LOL...Good lord have mercy ... And Weather it was a Catch or not doesn't matter , THey ALREADY Cheated to GIVE us the 1st down and We said KOOL and Jammed a TD down your throats , so Common Sense says ( and I KNOW thats a stretch in BITTERBROWNLAND) but, its says the Refs would just review and say " After Further review The ruling on the Field stands" After all they are CHEATING for Pittsburgh ...right ???
Come on, they used Terrible Towels for Flags in Super~Bowl XL , right ?? What a buncha Total Azzzz~wipes you guys are ! Not a stitch of Common Sense. "Stupid is as Stupid does" and thats the Rule and not the exception on this Board. BITTER BITTER BITTER Fans. I dont blame you for being tired of losing I REALLY dont , but to totally lack common sense ? Amazing ... They are Cheating you on one call , and Turn around and try to make up for it a few plays later ? Dumb Dumb Dumb ...ANTEATER is the King of Dumb !!
FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
Dude your the Biggest freaking Baby I ever seen. So your saying the the Refs GAVE us a first down , and THEN decided to take a TD off the board right after ?? LOL...Good lord have mercy ... And Weather it was a Catch or not doesn't matter , THey ALREADY Cheated to GIVE us the 1st down and We said KOOL and Jammed a TD down your throats , so Common Sense says ( and I KNOW thats a stretch in BITTERBROWNLAND) but, its says the Refs would just review and say " After Further review The ruling on the Field stands" After all they are CHEATING for Pittsburgh ...right ???Come on, they used Terrible Towels for Flags in Super~Bowl XL , right ?? What a buncha Total Azzzz~wipes you guys are ! Not a stitch of Common Sense. "Stupid is as Stupid does" and thats the Rule and not the exception on this Board. BITTER BITTER BITTER Fans. I dont blame you for being tired of losing I REALLY dont , but to totally lack common sense ? Amazing ... They are Cheating you on one call , and Turn around and try to make up for it a few plays later ? Dumb Dumb Dumb ...ANTEATER is the King of Dumb !!
If you don't like to hear what a Browns fan has to say, on a Browns board, get the hell outta here...
It's pretty simple. Give it a try.
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LOL ... seriously, they both look short to me. We ain't freaking stupid, I think we can understand an angle.
Is there like a price sheet that the NFL Refs give you guys prior to a season?
Favorable Spot $1200
Look the other way during a hold $500 (minimum of three)
Flag the second guy for a personal foul $1700 (if you gouge a guy under the pile) $3000 if you initiate the fight in open field
Shorten First down by two chain links $2000 between thirties, $3000 inside Red Zone
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By the way, tell your kid he can have his pogo stick and football back ... daddy is done taking pictures for the non-rival guys.
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lol moron, on the picture's I've seen of the real measurement, the football is nowhere near that much of an angle away from the camera. Your lame ass pictures prove a point that the pictures from the game are NOT taken from an angle.
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Formerly Stone said:
Proof that we haven't seen enough to say for sure!Here's what I did:
I placed the football and the pole on the floor and took two pictures. I tried to take the picture from exactly the same angles left and right, I didn't move the ball, and it clearly shows that we may just have been getting a bad view on TV.
1.
from a couple feet to the right of straight (on the Steelers side of the line of scrimmage)
and
2.
from the same distance left of straight (on the Browns side of the line of scrimmage)
The players on the field thought it was a BS call. The Browns coach thought it was a BS call. The pittsburgh newspaper thought it was a BS call.
you bring up a good point, but I think that what the players and coaches saw trumps what you did
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