Lerner's Next FO Hire???
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In regards to BK and his businesses failing, I know a man who filed bankruptcy 3 times before he ever made it as a millionaire.
Its great to see people who can fail forward.
In regards to BK and his businesses failing, I know a man who filed bankruptcy 3 times before he ever made it as a millionaire.
Its great to see people who can fail forward.
We're getting so far off track with WHERE Bernie is football smart and could help us. As an OC - I say absolutely. As a President? I haven't heard anything beyond Bernie's ability to enter the supplemental draft as to why he woul;d be perfect for the job. There's more to being a President of an operation that just being a good QB in the 80s.
This has nothing to do with HOW MUCH I liked Bernie as a player. It has more to do with HOW has he been preparing to be a FO Gran Poobah. If you like his current path and think it's conducive to winning tomorrow - then all I need is WHY you think this way.
Like I said, I'd welcome him as an OC. I'm just not sold his economic decision making skills and planning abilities are what we need to get us out of this mess as a President. I think the cement wall I'm running into with this topic is the difference between being a fan of the PLAYER Bernie and seeing him as our President. Why now - all of a sudden?
A BIG part of the front office thing is knowing how much money to throw at FAs like Kevin Shaffer, Derek Anderson, Antwaan Peek, Joe Andruzzi, Jamal Lewis, Dante Stallworth, etc... Not only did we LOSE considerable cap space on guys ready for their WORST football - but you lose the time element at their positions because you plan your team makeup around what positions are allegedly filled (when you're a team in transition). We threw ansurd cake at Jason Fisk and Ted Washington too. Anyway, THIS is the area we are losing to everyone in so I'd prefer a SEASONED person at the position instead of another Phil Savage, look-the-type and learn as you go. It's put us right back to the type of team we had in 1999 - maybe a few more strengths but defintitely not at the skilled positions you score points from. If Bernie knows how you FIND that Joe Flacco or that Marques Colston or that Pierre Thomas or that Earnest Byner or Brian Sipe - out there in college football in places he hasn't been this year, I stand corrected.
- Tom F.
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If Bernie knows how you FIND that Joe Flacco or that Marques Colston or that Pierre Thomas or that Earnest Byner or Brian Sipe - out there in college football in places he hasn't been this year, I stand corrected.
- Tom F.
Not much fear of that Tom, he was the biggest fan of Charlie Frye back in the day
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Sometimes personal bankruptcy is the SMART decision to make. I'm not gong to hold that against Bernie. Seriously, bankruptcy is a guaranteed right for US citizens. It is the creidt empire that has attached the bad stigma to it.
Walt Disney filed.
Ulysess S. Grant was a partjer in a financial firm that went bankrupt.
Milton S. Hershey filed.
Abraham Lincoln filed.
William McKinley cosigned for a loan for a friend who then went bankrupt. He was in debt 130 grand.
Thomas Paine of Common Sense fame went bankrupt.
Mark Twain filed.
Of Course Donald Trump
P.T. Barnum
Henry John Heinz
Henry Ford
Sometimes personal bankruptcy is the SMART decision to make. I'm not gong to hold that against Bernie. Seriously, bankruptcy is a guaranteed right for US citizens. It is the creidt empire that has attached the bad stigma to it.
Walt Disney filed.
Ulysess S. Grant was a partjer in a financial firm that went bankrupt.
Milton S. Hershey filed.
Abraham Lincoln filed.
William McKinley cosigned for a loan for a friend who then went bankrupt. He was in debt 130 grand.
Thomas Paine of Common Sense fame went bankrupt.
Mark Twain filed.
Of Course Donald Trump
P.T. Barnum
Henry John Heinz
Henry Ford
.....glenby73 filed. Not sure how you missed that on your list of well known public figures
All business debt I swear. 'Course, If I wasn't blowing my money on Browns tickets, maybe things would have been different!
Part of Bernie's problem is he has a bleeding heart. The man can't say no to anyone he knows. Does this mean I think he's the man for the job or not, (insert shoulder shrug)?
1.) I don't have any confidence in any move Lerner makes at this point short of selling the team.
2.) Unless Lerner is going to give me a job or Bernie's going to give me a loan, I've all ready spent more time typing this post than I spend thinking about Lerner and his next move.
I don't have the answers unfortunately. My job is to GET A JOB so I can continue to buy tickets and tiny $6.75 beers so the Browns can continue to give it to needy players and their children.
I can only hope next year's version of the Browns give me a better game to watch on DVR when I get home from the stadium!!
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Sometimes personal bankruptcy is the SMART decision to make. I'm not gong to hold that against Bernie. Seriously, bankruptcy is a guaranteed right for US citizens. It is the creidt empire that has attached the bad stigma to it.
Walt Disney filed.
Ulysess S. Grant was a partjer in a financial firm that went bankrupt.
Milton S. Hershey filed.
Abraham Lincoln filed.
William McKinley cosigned for a loan for a friend who then went bankrupt. He was in debt 130 grand.
Thomas Paine of Common Sense fame went bankrupt.
Mark Twain filed.
Of Course Donald Trump
P.T. Barnum
Henry John Heinz
Henry Ford
Sometimes personal bankruptcy is the SMART decision to make. I'm not gong to hold that against Bernie. Seriously, bankruptcy is a guaranteed right for US citizens. It is the creidt empire that has attached the bad stigma to it.
Walt Disney filed.
Ulysess S. Grant was a partjer in a financial firm that went bankrupt.
Milton S. Hershey filed.
Abraham Lincoln filed.
William McKinley cosigned for a loan for a friend who then went bankrupt. He was in debt 130 grand.
Thomas Paine of Common Sense fame went bankrupt.
Mark Twain filed.
Of Course Donald Trump
P.T. Barnum
Henry John Heinz
Henry Ford
don't forget about government motors, ERRR! i mean general motors.
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A LOT of people were taken in by the real estate bubble, which was created by the Federal Reserve. The last stage of this bubble in the early/mid 2000s was massive. There are a lot of real estate developers in Las Vegas and Phoenix, among others, who struck it big and then got deluged by the credit collapse. The Austrian school of economics has been cataloging these boom-bust cycles inspired by central banks for a century, but these aren't the economics people are taught in school. It's easy to point fingers at a businessman like Bernie, but none of the other mainstream economists called the collapse. They were all cheering on the phony low interest rates, just like they're cheering on the artificially low rates we have now. None of these mainstream people expected all the banks to verge on collapse last year (and the bank rescues have only set the stage for a larger collapse down the road).
Only the non-mainstream guys who actually knew what they were talking about (e.g. Peter Schiff) called it, and Bernie probably was too busy working to be paying much attention.
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A LOT of people were taken in by the real estate bubble, which was created by the Federal Reserve. The last stage of this bubble in the early/mid 2000s was massive. There are a lot of real estate developers in Las Vegas and Phoenix, among others, who struck it big and then got deluged by the credit collapse. The Austrian school of economics has been cataloging these boom-bust cycles inspired by central banks for a century, but these aren't the economics people are taught in school. It's easy to point fingers at a businessman like Bernie, but none of the other mainstream economists called the collapse. They were all cheering on the phony low interest rates, just like they're cheering on the artificially low rates we have now. None of these mainstream people expected all the banks to verge on collapse last year (and the bank rescues have only set the stage for a larger collapse down the road).
Only the non-mainstream guys who actually knew what they were talking about (e.g. Peter Schiff) called it, and Bernie probably was too busy working to be paying much attention.
A LOT of people were taken in by the real estate bubble, which was created by the Federal Reserve. The last stage of this bubble in the early/mid 2000s was massive. There are a lot of real estate developers in Las Vegas and Phoenix, among others, who struck it big and then got deluged by the credit collapse. The Austrian school of economics has been cataloging these boom-bust cycles inspired by central banks for a century, but these aren't the economics people are taught in school. It's easy to point fingers at a businessman like Bernie, but none of the other mainstream economists called the collapse. They were all cheering on the phony low interest rates, just like they're cheering on the artificially low rates we have now. None of these mainstream people expected all the banks to verge on collapse last year (and the bank rescues have only set the stage for a larger collapse down the road).
Only the non-mainstream guys who actually knew what they were talking about (e.g. Peter Schiff) called it, and Bernie probably was too busy working to be paying much attention.
That last half of the last sentence above reminds me alot of Phil Savage. Trouble was it impacted the economic decisions he was really bad at for overseeing a salary cap and planning a football team around. Here's a few overpaid reminders:
Jason Fiske, Ted Washington, Antwaan Peek, Joe Andruzzi, Kevin Shaffer, Dante Stallworth.
If you're not capable of understanding a mortgage and how to financially plan to prevent foreclosure - you're not capable of keeping an NFL franchise from foreclosuring IMO. I just gave a GREAT example above. Phil got an enormous wallet to build a GREAT franchise with. Bad decisions and a complete lack of experience running the show left us pretty shotso heading into 2009 regardless of how smart he may be at other things. In the REAL world, how often does a person with no experience in Admin go from super college student to President upon hire? Never. This is WHY they have co-ops/internships prior to hire. Then they start at entry-level and work their way up the ranks. This has nothing to do with throwing accurate spirals to wide open targets or handing off to Kevin Mack for TDs. You don't see John Elway running the Broncos or Joe Montana running the 49ers or Phil Simms running the NY Giants or Dan Marino running the Miami Dolphins right after those franchises went bad for a brief period right? And Wayne Gretzky was arguably the best Hockey player that ever lived but he wasn't necessarily prepared for his NHL positions in management shortly thereafter. The Knicks hired Isaiah Thomas right? Did he make more money showing up to work or being paid to stay away? There's JUST so much more to it than we think and even some former GREAT players think.
Back to the thought we could just hire a smart guy that looked the part. Nobody had the ability to plan around this 3-4 ideology that was deemed so necessary to sentence our fanbase with. We were going to run a 3-4 without putting the type of LBers in our lineup that are capable of WINNING in a 3-4. Not only that but it took us going through Jason Fiske, Andrew Hoffman, Babe Oshinowo, Ted "the fossil" Washington. to finally get the RIGHT guy Shaun Rogers as the Nose of the 3-4. NEXT? He depleted our draft so when it was time to look in the mirror at a crappy 2008 season, we learned we only had 3 or 4 draft picks for 2009. Lerner's NEXT hire was starting with a crappy deck.
You can be the nicest guy in the world or once the best player on the planet but there's absolutely no evidence it makes you the GM to save the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. THIS is why I cringe if Lerner listens to fans. A TON of people that told me the knee jerk to lure Butch away from college assured me he'd be perfect because he took a Miami COLLEGE team from the depths of NCAA Probation and WON a share of the Big East Title while they still weren't able to give out scholarships and appear in Bowl Games. Guess who became the FIRST people to complain about him? I still remember one of our legends that passed away FatDaddy telling me he was a great hire. When Butch was ONLY coaching - we turned around 5-27 caliber to 7-9 (with 2 OT losses) and then 9-7 with playoffs the next year. However, that's when the ego kicked in and Butch demanded GM powers he wasn't ready for. NOW we just learned from Solon's Mike Lombardi article this is what is REALLY going on with Mangini right? Anything learned by the Lerners in 11 years?
Eveytime the shit hits the fan, we all race to throw the most attractive names to head Coachign positions and Front Office people. We're JUST fans without ANY idea what it takes to be the RIGHT person for the President of the Browns position. There's been a few successful Head Coaches that failed once they added the GM title next to their Head Coach title. There's more to it than so many of us think. I'm sure Phil Savage could tell you the difference between being a decent scout and running a front office. Night and day as they say.
- Tom F. (The ONLY time you fire someone is when you are CERTAIN you have a more qualified replacement. Hasn't really been the case since the Lerner family took over this franchise so I'm not the least bit pacified this time by anyone getting fired.)
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I agree Tom....Bernie isn't qualified to be a GM at this point.
What people seem to forget about Ozzie is he didn't start as a GM...he spent 10-12 years working his way up, step by step.
Being a GM is WAY more than bringing in talent. Actually, that is just a small part of the job.
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You can be the nicest guy in the world or once the best player on the planet but there's absolutely no evidence it makes you the GM to save the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. THIS is why I cringe if Lerner listens to fans. A TON of people that told me the knee jerk to lure Butch away from college assured me he'd be perfect because he took a Miami COLLEGE team from the depths of NCAA Probation and WON a share of the Big East Title while they still weren't able to give out scholarships and appear in Bowl Games. Guess who became the FIRST people to complain about him? I still remember one of our legends that passed away FatDaddy telling me he was a great hire. When Butch was ONLY coaching - we turned around 5-27 caliber to 7-9 (with 2 OT losses) and then 9-7 with playoffs the next year. However, that's when the ego kicked in and Butch demanded GM powers he wasn't ready for. NOW we just learned from Solon's Mike Lombardi article this is what is REALLY going on with Mangini right?
I still like Butch and wish we hired the Same real GM that we still need today....thought Butch did well here...save the fking holcomb BS...he will turn UNC into a powerhouse in football!
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You can be the nicest guy in the world or once the best player on the planet but there's absolutely no evidence it makes you the GM to save the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. THIS is why I cringe if Lerner listens to fans. A TON of people that told me the knee jerk to lure Butch away from college assured me he'd be perfect because he took a Miami COLLEGE team from the depths of NCAA Probation and WON a share of the Big East Title while they still weren't able to give out scholarships and appear in Bowl Games. Guess who became the FIRST people to complain about him? I still remember one of our legends that passed away FatDaddy telling me he was a great hire. When Butch was ONLY coaching - we turned around 5-27 caliber to 7-9 (with 2 OT losses) and then 9-7 with playoffs the next year. However, that's when the ego kicked in and Butch demanded GM powers he wasn't ready for. NOW we just learned from Solon's Mike Lombardi article this is what is REALLY going on with Mangini right?
I still like Butch and wish we hired the Same real GM that we still need today....thought Butch did well here...save the fking holcomb BS...he will turn UNC into a powerhouse in football!
You can be the nicest guy in the world or once the best player on the planet but there's absolutely no evidence it makes you the GM to save the Titanic after it hit the iceberg. THIS is why I cringe if Lerner listens to fans. A TON of people that told me the knee jerk to lure Butch away from college assured me he'd be perfect because he took a Miami COLLEGE team from the depths of NCAA Probation and WON a share of the Big East Title while they still weren't able to give out scholarships and appear in Bowl Games. Guess who became the FIRST people to complain about him? I still remember one of our legends that passed away FatDaddy telling me he was a great hire. When Butch was ONLY coaching - we turned around 5-27 caliber to 7-9 (with 2 OT losses) and then 9-7 with playoffs the next year. However, that's when the ego kicked in and Butch demanded GM powers he wasn't ready for. NOW we just learned from Solon's Mike Lombardi article this is what is REALLY going on with Mangini right?
- Flugel
I still like Butch and wish we hired the Same real GM that we still need today....thought Butch did well here...save the fking holcomb BS...he will turn UNC into a powerhouse in football!
- Solon
There's no doubt about it when it comes to JUST coaching - Butch turned 5-27 into playoffs within 2 years. Non-competitive to competitive. However, he got that mentality that if you want me to cook the food - you better let me shop for it first. That's when ripe went to ferment at warped speed. He didn't do as well in the Pro Football grocery stores as he did in the college scholarship market. He also pissed off every scout that worked their tails off on the road all season when he didn't read ANY of their reports and took Garard Warren ahead of all the research. Like Mike Holmgren, her learned there's a whole lot more to this than he had ever fathomed. Another SIDE of that is you FAVOR your choices so when you're telling an entire team to hustle, be on time and show heart - you let your prize draft pick do his own thing. That goes over like a fart in church and the rest is inevitable.
I don't have anything against Butch when it comes to coaching. As for the rest of the drama with the GM and ego, that's on the OWNER that needed to know Butch wasn't ready for the GM stuff. This Eric Mangini thing almost sounds like history repeating itself. As a Head Coach - I still think he can succeed if he's ONLY coaching and we get more scoring weapons employed here. What worries me is the perception of "The Secret" around the league and what a chaotic front office Cleveland has. We can forget any REAL free agents of value in 2010 unless of course the Jets have any.
I'm just thinking out loud this week not really sure how accurate I am. I appreciate those of you willing to partake in the discussion. If you catch me in need of some straightening out - run it!
- Tom F.
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