Building a Winning Team
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I think that with all the bashing of the Browns' coach (as opposed to the other coaches of awful teams) I think it would be good to get back to analyzing the actual guys on the field. Coaching and management aside, there have to be parts on the field that work. I am not trying to be exact in the order but I think that a successful, championship-contending team should have:
1) Quarterback. You could argue LT, but we seem to have one of those and you need someone to run the offense. Sorry Quinn fans; perhaps I'll be proven wrong but Quinn is struggling to show he's simply adequate to this point in his career.
2) Left Tackle. Protects #1. Check.
3) Edge Pass Rusher. If Wimbley can finish with 10+ sacks, I'd say we have this but it goes without saying that a front seven with one star player is too easy to game plan against. He needs a counterpart that's reasonably good on the other side to keep offenses honest.
4) Shut down CB. Revis made the Jets immensely better. The list of shutdown corners is not too long but aside from Nnamdi, you don't see many on losing teams. This defense would be so much better if you had one guy that could at least hang with a #1 WR.
5) MLB (4-3)/NT (3-4). I think that Shaun Rogers is one of the best but he's showing us what he showed Detroit. He can really play when he wants to and dominate but is he able to dominate start-to-finish? I'm a big believer in being able to shore up the middle of the defense first so this doesn't get us off the hook with respect to ILBs and SFs but Rogers can command multiple blockers so it's a start.
I, for one, am kind of excited to see that Maiava and Veikune are supposedly going to man the ILB spots Monday. I don't take joy in Barton getting hurt but we need to see what these guys can do.
That's the start. Discuss...
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Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.
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Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.
Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.
ok, your favorite coach and gm are hired. Next...
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Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.
Well, in my opinion you cannot put "Coaching and Management" aside. They are Priority 1 and 1A when it come to building a winning team...and they are why the Browns have NOT been a winning team.
Thats a win for the gipper...pro management and good coaching will always find a way to win at least some games with what they have even if its 53 guys fresh off the street...other then that...
QB
LT
C
RB
NT
CB
ILB
S
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let's look at the difference in Cincy this year, where they have swept the division so far.
A). Got there Qb FRANCHISE healthy
. Got a Great young Rb who is at top in nfl in rushing(who was let go){i took alot of shit on this board for telling you all to go get him and that he'd be great pickup} C). A Great ILB who attacks the line of scrimmage(again took alot of shit for wanting maualuga)Voila...a division leading team....Both guys we SHOULD have gotten. But it all starts with the most important position in ALL of sports!
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The whole town of Cinncinati wanted Marvin run out of town..the QB is healthy and playing well Marv is now a hell of a coach
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The whole town of Cinncinati wanted Marvin run out of town..the QB is healthy and playing well Marv is now a hell of a coach
The whole town of Cinncinati wanted Marvin run out of town..the QB is healthy and playing well Marv is now a hell of a coach
Cincinnati went 4 -12 once in the past 5 years. Else they have a .500% or higher. I dont think these Browns have similar records for the past 5 years .
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I think that with all the bashing of the Browns' coach (as opposed to the other coaches of awful teams) I think it would be good to get back to analyzing the actual guys on the field. Coaching and management aside, there have to be parts on the field that work. I am not trying to be exact in the order but I think that a successful, championship-contending team should have:
1) Quarterback. You could argue LT, but we seem to have one of those and you need someone to run the offense. Sorry Quinn fans; perhaps I'll be proven wrong but Quinn is struggling to show he's simply adequate to this point in his career.
2) Left Tackle. Protects #1. Check.
3) Edge Pass Rusher. If Wimbley can finish with 10+ sacks, I'd say we have this but it goes without saying that a front seven with one star player is too easy to game plan against. He needs a counterpart that's reasonably good on the other side to keep offenses honest.
4) Shut down CB. Revis made the Jets immensely better. The list of shutdown corners is not too long but aside from Nnamdi, you don't see many on losing teams. This defense would be so much better if you had one guy that could at least hang with a #1 WR.
5) MLB (4-3)/NT (3-4). I think that Shaun Rogers is one of the best but he's showing us what he showed Detroit. He can really play when he wants to and dominate but is he able to dominate start-to-finish? I'm a big believer in being able to shore up the middle of the defense first so this doesn't get us off the hook with respect to ILBs and SFs but Rogers can command multiple blockers so it's a start.
I, for one, am kind of excited to see that Maiava and Veikune are supposedly going to man the ILB spots Monday. I don't take joy in Barton getting hurt but we need to see what these guys can do.
That's the start. Discuss...
I think that with all the bashing of the Browns' coach (as opposed to the other coaches of awful teams) I think it would be good to get back to analyzing the actual guys on the field. Coaching and management aside, there have to be parts on the field that work. I am not trying to be exact in the order but I think that a successful, championship-contending team should have:
1) Quarterback. You could argue LT, but we seem to have one of those and you need someone to run the offense. Sorry Quinn fans; perhaps I'll be proven wrong but Quinn is struggling to show he's simply adequate to this point in his career.
2) Left Tackle. Protects #1. Check.
I agree with this mostly, but you have to have a solid line outside of LT. We have a great LT yet our line is doing terrible because the rest of the line is not up to par (not that there's a depth of talent at the skill positions either). This upcoming draft we just need to get the best player availablle, as we pretty much could use a good player at ANY position.
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I think that with all the bashing of the Browns' coach (as opposed to the other coaches of awful teams) I think it would be good to get back to analyzing the actual guys on the field. Coaching and management aside, there have to be parts on the field that work. I am not trying to be exact in the order but I think that a successful, championship-contending team should have:
1) Quarterback. You could argue LT, but we seem to have one of those and you need someone to run the offense. Sorry Quinn fans; perhaps I'll be proven wrong but Quinn is struggling to show he's simply adequate to this point in his career.
2) Left Tackle. Protects #1. Check.
I agree with this mostly, but you have to have a solid line outside of LT. We have a great LT yet our line is doing terrible because the rest of the line is not up to par (not that there's a depth of talent at the skill positions either). This upcoming draft we just need to get the best player availablle, as we pretty much could use a good player at ANY position.
shit said:
I agree with this mostly, but you have to have a solid line outside of LT. We have a great LT yet our line is doing terrible because the rest of the line is not up to par (not that there's a depth of talent at the skill positions either). This upcoming draft we just need to get the best player availablle, as we pretty much could use a good player at ANY position.I agree...and even though a "best available' approach would be good, I think that by the end of the second round of next year's draft (FA included) you need to come up with a true playmaker on offense and a substantial defensive player.
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Zombo said:
Cincinnati has had one winning season in 19 years, four years ago, and now we are using them as a model on how to build a winning franchise.Zombo
let's look at the difference in Cincy this year, where they have swept the division so far. ummmm This year as oppossed to last year when they were 4-12? Valid comparison when they only upgraded 3 positions and they are (currently) the division leader and have a top 3 running back! Biggest difference is there Defense(reyM)
Qb, Rb , ILB! BAM vastly improved....get those three positions right....Ingredients to buiild a winning team...wasn't saying follow the 19 year plan by the bengals but thanks for your two cents...you need change. lol
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glad you comprehend
baltimore...ray lewis, flacco, ray rice.....pitt rothlis, farrior, mendenhall/parker ...same planYou know ....the title of this thread? it's called a checklist...not a bengal plan...just showing IMO the reason they are vastly improved...but go ahead and misquote and mis interpret....like I said, you need some change for your 2 cents. Qb,RB and ILB
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Zombo said:
Cincinnati has had one winning season in 19 years, four years ago, and now we are using them as a model on how to build a winning franchise.Zombo
I don't think they have done that bad, have they?...on checking, perhaps you are right. They had a winning record in 1990, then not another one till 2005. They have had two or three 8-8 seasons. So far this year they are 6-2.
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To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.
In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.
In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.
So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.
In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.
In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.
So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.
To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.
In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.
In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.
So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.
You dont consider D'qwell to be a checkmark?
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To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.
In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.
In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.
So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.
You dont consider D'qwell to be a checkmark?
Dawgfanforever88 said:
You dont consider D'qwell to be a checkmark?No, not really. He's good but I have never seen in the guy what some do....but he has been out, so a bit off the mind...I can compromise and call that a maybe....
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Zombo said:
Cincinnati has had one winning season in 19 years, four years ago, and now we are using them as a model on how to build a winning franchise.Zombo
I don't think they have done that bad, have they?...on checking, perhaps you are right. They had a winning record in 1990, then not another one till 2005. They have had two or three 8-8 seasons. So far this year they are 6-2.
I don't think they have done that bad, have they?...on checking, perhaps you are right. They had a winning record in 1990, then not another one till 2005. They have had two or three 8-8 seasons. So far this year they are 6-2.
BENGALS HISTORY:
2000s
Decade Record: 58-85-1
1990s
Decade Record: 52-108-0
1980s
Decade Record: 81-71-0
1970s
Decade Record: 74-70-0
1960s
Decade Record: 7-20-1
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let's look at the difference in Cincy this year, where they have swept the division so far.
A). Got there Qb FRANCHISE healthy
. Got a Great young Rb who is at top in nfl in rushing(who was let go){i took alot of shit on this board for telling you all to go get him and that he'd be great pickup} C). A Great ILB who attacks the line of scrimmage(again took alot of shit for wanting maualuga)Voila...a division leading team....Both guys we SHOULD have gotten. But it all starts with the most important position in ALL of sports!
C). A Great ILB who attacks the line of scrimmage(again took alot of shit for wanting maualuga)
Rey's playing Sam for them, not inside backer. And I think the claim that he's transformed their defense is a bit odd: they were ranked 12th in total defense last year; they're ranked 14th this year.
I don't remember you taking "alot of shit" for comparing Maualuga to Ray Lewis and calling for us to take him at #5. In fact, I remember that being a very popular position around here.
But consider this: in his rookie year, Ray Lewis had 94 solo tackles; Rey Maualuga's on pace for 36. That's a huge difference - in part explained by Rey's playing on the strongside and being more of a two down backer, but that doesn't account for all of it.
Maybe Rey's helped stiffen up their run D a little. But even then, the difference isn't at all that huge: 3.9 YPC in '08, 3.8 YPC in '09.
So while having two good ILB's is essential in a 3-4 defense, I don't see Rey's play in Cincinnati's 4-3 being all that great a proof of that.
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To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.
In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.
In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.
So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.
To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.
In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.
In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.
So on that football list, I can check NT for sure, and center is a maybe but looking close to being checked....the rest.....not so close.
To me, football is just like baseball, you have to be strong up the middle.
In baseball, you have to have a catcher, pitcher, middle infielders, and a centerfielder.
In football, you need a back, QB, center, NT/Dt, MLB, safety.
I said that many times on this board....I agree 1000% We haven't had a decent ILB in 25 years... not a huge fan of DQ
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C). A Great ILB who attacks the line of scrimmage(again took alot of shit for wanting maualuga)
Rey's playing Sam for them, not inside backer. And I think the claim that he's transformed their defense is a bit odd: they were ranked 12th in total defense last year; they're ranked 14th this year.
I don't remember you taking "alot of shit" for comparing Maualuga to Ray Lewis and calling for us to take him at #5. In fact, I remember that being a very popular position around here.
But consider this: in his rookie year, Ray Lewis had 94 solo tackles; Rey Maualuga's on pace for 36. That's a huge difference - in part explained by Rey's playing on the strongside and being more of a two down backer, but that doesn't account for all of it.
Maybe Rey's helped stiffen up their run D a little. But even then, the difference isn't at all that huge: 3.9 YPC in '08, 3.8 YPC in '09.
So while having two good ILB's is essential in a 3-4 defense, I don't see Rey's play in Cincinnati's 4-3 being all that great a proof of that.
Rey's playing Sam for them, not inside backer. And I think the claim that he's transformed their defense is a bit odd: they were ranked 12th in total defense last year; they're ranked 14th this year.
I don't remember you taking "alot of shit" for comparing Maualuga to Ray Lewis and calling for us to take him at #5. In fact, I remember that being a very popular position around here.
But consider this: in his rookie year, Ray Lewis had 94 solo tackles; Rey Maualuga's on pace for 36. That's a huge difference - in part explained by Rey's playing on the strongside and being more of a two down backer, but that doesn't account for all of it.
Maybe Rey's helped stiffen up their run D a little. But even then, the difference isn't at all that huge: 3.9 YPC in '08, 3.8 YPC in '09.
So while having two good ILB's is essential in a 3-4 defense, I don't see Rey's play in Cincinnati's 4-3 being all that great a proof of that.
Good point....thanks....I didn't advocate rey at #5....but damn did i want him in the second round over robiskie! in the end #5 just too high...eugene monroe would look pretty good right now tho....
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Rey's playing Sam for them, not inside backer. And I think the claim that he's transformed their defense is a bit odd: they were ranked 12th in total defense last year; they're ranked 14th this year.
I don't remember you taking "alot of shit" for comparing Maualuga to Ray Lewis and calling for us to take him at #5. In fact, I remember that being a very popular position around here.
But consider this: in his rookie year, Ray Lewis had 94 solo tackles; Rey Maualuga's on pace for 36. That's a huge difference - in part explained by Rey's playing on the strongside and being more of a two down backer, but that doesn't account for all of it.
Maybe Rey's helped stiffen up their run D a little. But even then, the difference isn't at all that huge: 3.9 YPC in '08, 3.8 YPC in '09.
So while having two good ILB's is essential in a 3-4 defense, I don't see Rey's play in Cincinnati's 4-3 being all that great a proof of that.
Good point....thanks....I didn't advocate rey at #5....but damn did i want him in the second round over robiskie! in the end #5 just too high...eugene monroe would look pretty good right now tho....
Good point....thanks....I didn't advocate rey at #5....but damn did i want him in the second round over robiskie! in the end #5 just too high...eugene monroe would look pretty good right now tho....
I'm talking about before the draft, when you said stuff like this:
@solon16 said:
Rey isn't perfect BUT if you stand him up behind Shaun Rogers - how's that CHEMISTRY lookin? No great MLB in my 40 years of life and to me the #1 ingredient to a strong defense and identity. I'd take him at #5 no doubt but I don't have a saY....I hope we trade down and get him but the barton deal makes it a big doubt. I wish someone would would understand that you build a Defense exactly like in Baseball....straight up the middle...NT, MLB, and safety....without those three...it's all meaningless fodor.For most of the spring, the debate was Curry vs. Maualuga at #5. While you may have been one of the few people who was a fan of both, you weren't talking about going for Curry in Rd.1, Maualuga in Rd. 2.
You said you would have taken him at #5, though - like some people - you were trying to split the baby by arguing for Maualuga via a trade down. I believe Shep was arguing for the same thing.
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