Browns Tight End
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Agree with the OP's main point: there may be other areas where this team is hurting, but a TE would be a huge benefit. Their current TEs aren't good at anything, and are probably only adequate at best at anything you'd ask from them. Maybe the Browns don't need a player like Winslow, but a big guy with great hands, tough to bring down, and can block, too: Anthony McCoy from USC. And I hate USC.
As for Kellen Winslow: been there, done that, what was the problem with Winslow? He was one of the best TEs in the league, put up huge numbers, provided a great safety net for a QB, and made it all the more difficult to double your top WR.
As for Kellen Winslow: been there, done that, what was the problem with Winslow? He was one of the best TEs in the league, put up huge numbers, provided a great safety net for a QB, and made it all the more difficult to double your top WR.
Winslow had the OPPORTUNITY to be one of the best TEs in the league but I'm not convinced he WAS one of the best.
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A few points:
- An effective receiving tight end is a great resource for a young quarterback. Just look at how Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman have utilized their dynamic tight ends; there's a noticeable correlation between their tight ends having good games and the young QB's having success.
- We'll likely have a young QB as our starter next year, whether it's Quinn or a rookie QB. As many have noted, Quinn relied heavily on his tight ends at Notre Dame and made good use of Winslow in his few starts last year. Giving him a better TE would be a wise move, and a rookie quarterback would benefit just as much from bringing in a guy who can catch the ball and, hopefully, then run for more than a yard or two.
- As Kathy noted, the West Coast offense is predicated on having tight ends who are more dynamic than Michael Gaines and Greg Estandia. And that requires devoting resources to the position: Mike Holmgren drafted a tight end in the first round (Jerramy Stevens); when that guy busted, Tim Ruskell drafted for him another tight end in the second round (Nate Carlson). So it doesn't make much sense to say, "Gaines and Estandia can block well, so we're set at the position."
- Dawgtracker, I don't get your point about being upset that we'd draft two tight ends. As I've tried to argue, we'll need more than a Heiden clone if we're serious about helping Quinn out and/or moving to a WCO. At the same time, having a Heiden clone is valuable, which is what we'd be getting in Nate Byham in the 5th round. He'd be a nice value pick, which is what's important for a rebuilding team. We want all of our picks to be 5-7 year contributors to the club, even if there's a little redundancy in what positions they play. Look at the Tuna's '08 draft in Miami: it's a great draft, despite the fact that he picked multiple guys at the same position.
- Louisville, I don't have a clear sense why you think "there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year". I'd need names & draft grades to make that judgment, and I doubt I'd reach that conclusion about this year's class. But I'm willing to consider the argument - you just need to show me more.
A few points:
- An effective receiving tight end is a great resource for a young quarterback. Just look at how Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman have utilized their dynamic tight ends; there's a noticeable correlation between their tight ends having good games and the young QB's having success.
- We'll likely have a young QB as our starter next year, whether it's Quinn or a rookie QB. As many have noted, Quinn relied heavily on his tight ends at Notre Dame and made good use of Winslow in his few starts last year. Giving him a better TE would be a wise move, and a rookie quarterback would benefit just as much from bringing in a guy who can catch the ball and, hopefully, then run for more than a yard or two.
- As Kathy noted, the West Coast offense is predicated on having tight ends who are more dynamic than Michael Gaines and Greg Estandia. And that requires devoting resources to the position: Mike Holmgren drafted a tight end in the first round (Jerramy Stevens); when that guy busted, Tim Ruskell drafted for him another tight end in the second round (Nate Carlson). So it doesn't make much sense to say, "Gaines and Estandia can block well, so we're set at the position."
- Dawgtracker, I don't get your point about being upset that we'd draft two tight ends. As I've tried to argue, we'll need more than a Heiden clone if we're serious about helping Quinn out and/or moving to a WCO. At the same time, having a Heiden clone is valuable, which is what we'd be getting in Nate Byham in the 5th round. He'd be a nice value pick, which is what's important for a rebuilding team. We want all of our picks to be 5-7 year contributors to the club, even if there's a little redundancy in what positions they play. Look at the Tuna's '08 draft in Miami: it's a great draft, despite the fact that he picked multiple guys at the same position.
- Louisville, I don't have a clear sense why you think "there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year". I'd need names & draft grades to make that judgment, and I doubt I'd reach that conclusion about this year's class. But I'm willing to consider the argument - you just need to show me more.
IMO there is 4-5 TEs that are worth being drafted, after that there is no real drop off in production from the mid-level TEs to the UDFAs. You have Gresham, Dickinson, McCoy, and Pitta who are decent recieving threats but after that most TEs havent distant theirselves from one another. It seems most TEs after the 4 I previously mentioned are blocking TEs. IMO we dont need to waste a pick on a blocking TE they are a dime a dozen.
The sad part is since its such a weak draft class those guys ar going to go higher then they should. I hope were not the ones who blow a 3nd rounder on a blocking TE.
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A few points:
- An effective receiving tight end is a great resource for a young quarterback. Just look at how Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman have utilized their dynamic tight ends; there's a noticeable correlation between their tight ends having good games and the young QB's having success.
- We'll likely have a young QB as our starter next year, whether it's Quinn or a rookie QB. As many have noted, Quinn relied heavily on his tight ends at Notre Dame and made good use of Winslow in his few starts last year. Giving him a better TE would be a wise move, and a rookie quarterback would benefit just as much from bringing in a guy who can catch the ball and, hopefully, then run for more than a yard or two.
- As Kathy noted, the West Coast offense is predicated on having tight ends who are more dynamic than Michael Gaines and Greg Estandia. And that requires devoting resources to the position: Mike Holmgren drafted a tight end in the first round (Jerramy Stevens); when that guy busted, Tim Ruskell drafted for him another tight end in the second round (Nate Carlson). So it doesn't make much sense to say, "Gaines and Estandia can block well, so we're set at the position."
- Dawgtracker, I don't get your point about being upset that we'd draft two tight ends. As I've tried to argue, we'll need more than a Heiden clone if we're serious about helping Quinn out and/or moving to a WCO. At the same time, having a Heiden clone is valuable, which is what we'd be getting in Nate Byham in the 5th round. He'd be a nice value pick, which is what's important for a rebuilding team. We want all of our picks to be 5-7 year contributors to the club, even if there's a little redundancy in what positions they play. Look at the Tuna's '08 draft in Miami: it's a great draft, despite the fact that he picked multiple guys at the same position.
- Louisville, I don't have a clear sense why you think "there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year". I'd need names & draft grades to make that judgment, and I doubt I'd reach that conclusion about this year's class. But I'm willing to consider the argument - you just need to show me more.
IMO there is 4-5 TEs that are worth being drafted, after that there is no real drop off in production from the mid-level TEs to the UDFAs. You have Gresham, Dickinson, McCoy, and Pitta who are decent recieving threats but after that most TEs havent distant theirselves from one another. It seems most TEs after the 4 I previously mentioned are blocking TEs. IMO we dont need to waste a pick on a blocking TE they are a dime a dozen.
The sad part is since its such a weak draft class those guys ar going to go higher then they should. I hope were not the ones who blow a 3nd rounder on a blocking TE.
IMO there is 4-5 TEs that are worth being drafted, after that there is no real drop off in production from the mid-level TEs to the UDFAs. You have Gresham, Dickinson, McCoy, and Pitta who are decent recieving threats but after that most TEs havent distant theirselves from one another. It seems most TEs after the 4 I previously mentioned are blocking TEs. IMO we dont need to waste a pick on a blocking TE they are a dime a dozen.
The sad part is since its such a weak draft class those guys ar going to go higher then they should. I hope were not the ones who blow a 3nd rounder on a blocking TE.
Those are just the top senior prospects. From what I hear, juniors Wesley Saunders and Aaron Hernandez are strong candidates to enter this year's draft and get picked in the early rounds.
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Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.
A guy that is severly under the radar is Dennis Morris of LA Tech. 6'3" 265lbs has 600yrds recieving and 11tds!
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Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.
A guy that is severly under the radar is Dennis Morris of LA Tech. 6'3" 265lbs has 600yrds recieving and 11tds!
Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Not sure why staying another year will help his draft stock. Rob Gronkowski likely will be the #1 TE, and Hernandez will face the challenge of keeping up his production while working with a non-Tebow QB.
@louisville-slugger said:
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.Weslye Saunder's stats:
- 30 rec., 360 yards, 3 TD (scored 2 yesterday)
- 20 rec., 443 yards, 1 TD
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Grankowski is no where near the athlete Hernandez is plus Florida will have a pure passing QB next year which will help his stats. Keep in mind Gronkowski is coming off a pretty serious injury Hernandez will be taken ahead of him if he waits.
Like I said Saunders is a freak but he isnt conistent enough to warrant an early round consideration. Comparing him to McCoy isnt really fair, McCoy is a big play threat while Saunders is just a big body. They both had one solid performance this year but if you watch the tape on the 2 guys McCoy a beast with the ball in his hands.
Either wouldnt be bad in the 5th but after the 3rd those are almost throw away picks, you could hit big or they dont make the roster.
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Saunders is much heavier than McCoy. That would be explain why he's not as quick in the open field, though I think McCoy's speed may be a little bit overrated. I don't think he's a 4.6 guy, as some have claimed.
Re: Hernandez, TFY Draft is reporting that his plan is to go pro. I still don't see the logic in waiting, especially if a rookie cap's about to be imposed.
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Any more thoughts on the value of a tight end given the boost Evan Moore gave to the offense this week?
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Any more thoughts on the value of a tight end given the boost Evan Moore gave to the offense this week?
Any more thoughts on the value of a tight end given the boost Evan Moore gave to the offense this week?
Yes, keep Evan Moore and keep him as the starter.
but I've always said that Quinn is one of those QBs that relies on the TE, as we saw his great connection with Winslow in the games he played with him.
I think the Browns would probably have around 3 more wins with Winslow, but those 3 more wins don't get you anywhere and Mangini saw that. It was sad to see Winslow go, but he created too much drama and probably would have hurt the cap room too much.
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Moore is a example of why you don't necessarily need to draft a TE early.
Not saying you don't if you have the guy sitting there at the right time, but finding a viable option isn't impossible.
I guess it is what you want. Finding the players who can do it all is a bit tricky. Jason Wittens aren't all over the waiver wire, but you can usually find a player who can either block or catch passes.
To me, if your O-line is good enough, you don't need the classic blocker and can be more of a offensive weapon, much like Ozzie was..and really, blocking hasn't gotten any TE in to the HOF.
I say beef up the line, then get a TE who can find soft spots and have a chance to run a seam route...Moore, at least at this point seems to be able to do that.
If he plays well going down the stretch, TE isn't going to be high on the priority list. If we draft a TE this year, it will be a late rounder and the TE is clearly the BPA surrounded by players who don't fit any need or scheme of the team.
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Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.
A guy that is severly under the radar is Dennis Morris of LA Tech. 6'3" 265lbs has 600yrds recieving and 11tds!
Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.
A guy that is severly under the radar is Dennis Morris of LA Tech. 6'3" 265lbs has 600yrds recieving and 11tds!
You are so correct!!!!!! Actually he ended the year with 38/623 yards and 12 Tds. This guy is awsome!!! He can block, run, and catch!! The Total Package!!!
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