Weis to Cleveland, without Mangini, could be a possibility
-
Very good points but I strongly disagree with bringing somebody else in this soon. Tear downs aren't a matter of cutting random guys or flat out dead weight. They are a lot of times very strategic moves based on next years draft, free agents, cap room, coaching strengths, roster depth, roster age, roster experience, and team philosophy and scheme. Moves now are made for the year to come. If you bring in a new guy with a new philosophy and scheme, he's gonna want to go his own direction when the roster has already been set up to go another direction. And since we've been back in 99, coaches try and fix the team in one year and that is a hit or miss strategy. So far, we'ver missed. And that is what sets franchises back 3-5 years. Mangini seems to have the ability and the patience to build for the long-term and anyone who loves the Browns should be excited about that approach. Forget that he has an ego, what coach doesn't. Forget that he practices in full pads more often than not, that's how you change the culture. And forget that he doesn't answer questions clearly, most coaches don't. All I care about is that somebody with experince is trying to build a consistant winner and I have a feeling in a few years fans will be very happy with where we are. If not, let him go and bring in somebody else but at least after a few years Mangini will have this team stable and back in order. I think 2007 gave fans the wrong idea about what this team has been. Its been filled with bad players since 1999 and if it weren't for DA, Braylon, Jamal, and KII playing out of their minds in 07, we were a 4-12 team that year also. The talent isn't here, give the guy a few years to fix it. If not then, throw him out.
If you buy into the notion that Mangini's main task this season was to strategically disassemble the team, then while he's certainly done the next coach a favor, I'm not sure he's done much to move the team forward in such a way that a new coach would find himself in a major strategic disadvantage as a result.
The new coach may have chosen to disassemble one part of the team instead of another, but with this team the "strategic disassemble" was more or less across the board.
For what it's worth Florio at NBC's PFT says he's hearing that a change at Head Coach is in the cards
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ng-a-hire-soon/
If you buy into the notion that Mangini's main task this season was to strategically disassemble the team, then while he's certainly done the next coach a favor, I'm not sure he's done much to move the team forward in such a way that a new coach would find himself in a major strategic disadvantage as a result.
The new coach may have chosen to disassemble one part of the team instead of another, but with this team the "strategic disassemble" was more or less across the board.
For what it's worth Florio at NBC's PFT says he's hearing that a change at Head Coach is in the cards
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ng-a-hire-soon/
Florio is a douche. The only reason anybody knows his name is because he prints the most rediculous opinions and manufactures "sources" out of his own gut. When he speaks, cover your ears.
Back to the point. I just think that the two most important things successful teams in the league have in common is patience and consistancy. NOBODY has ever built a winning franchise by changing coaches every two years. That has never been a winning formula. And if a new guy comes in here and starts drafting "sexy" picks and signing 32 year old former Pro Bowlers, then in two years we'll be right back where here having TV blackouts. Mangini is building for the future and I applaud his patience and dknowledge of the situation. We need to be patient and understand the situation. This formula works and I think he and Lerner know that. However, if we only win 5 games next year, he's gone. But, we will have a solid foundation of players and a new culture in place by then. And that is huge.
I just read that article and I had to go and take a shower afterwards. He didn't mention any source for his statement that Mangini is gone after this year. In fact, he said that the Browns aren't giving any type of clues as to what they are doing. So again, its all speculation. He is assuming that a football czar will be firing Mangini which is not happening. The reason nobody has been hired is because Lerner intends on letting Mangini have full control and candidates aren't interested in just being a figurehead with no voice. That too is speculation but it makes a lot more sense than firing a good coach after one year in a rebuilding process.
-
Joe,
You really need to stop reading PFT. Seriously, dude. Half the sh*t you're spouting here is verbatim from that muck, including your "Raiders East" shout-out.
Fact: Mangini has salvaged our impending salary cap issues
Fact: Mangini has compiled eleven draft picks for April
Fact: Mangini's team is one of the least penalized teams in the NFL, a marked improvement from last year's Browns
Fact: Braylon Edwards has not improved since moving to New York
Fact: The 1-10 Browns did not quit when down 20 to a very good SD team Sunday
Fact: Several players testified to the media that Mangini's practices were just as short as Crennel's practices and not as hard
Fact: Personnel decisions such as the additions of Roth, Stuckey, and Trusnik.
Fact: Personnel decisions such as the removal of me-first guys Shaun Smith, Braylon Edwards, and Kellen Winslow.
Fact: Mangini has an offense with young players at the core (Quinn, Thomas, Harrison, Robiskie, Stuckey, Massaquoi, Mack), four of whom he added just this year
Fact: A consistent approach from week to week that is paying off with the team's level of competitiveness despite a terrible record
And here's my two cents: STFU about free agents not coming here already. When the hell have the Cleveland Browns EVER brought in the best free agents? Anybody remotely good either gets hurt (Bentley, Joe J), is a selfish overpaid POS (Rison), or runs people down with their SUV (Stallworth). I've got a news flash for ya JoeSixPat: We don't give a FU*K about free agency. It's all about the draft and you should know that already.
Yes - I've seen that lots of Cleveland fans seem to think you can ignore free agency and build a team through the draft. And I agree, over about 5-7 years you can do that if you draft very very well, since many players need a few years to develop. Which is why most teams recognize the need to do both.
Free agents don't want to play for the Raiders either. Has that hurt them? I guess most Cleveland fans would say "Hell no". I'd disagree.
I'm never sure what people mean by the fact that someone has "solved the salary cap" problem. By definition no team can exceed the salary cap. Their alternative is to cut expensive players, trying to keep as many of the good ones as possible. That's not rocket science. Did Cleveland fans expect that Mangini would exceed the salary cap? What are you actually giving him credit for? I could cut players too if forced to - that doesn't make me a good coach.
With Cleveland one needs to be wary of celebrating the fact that a mediocre player was drafted or signed and displaced a very bad veteran. All these guys are good, no doubt... good enough to win one game against the Bills by a score of 6-3 at last count. I'm not saying they can't improve - but the evidence we've seen is that they are what their record says they are, as Bill Parcells used to say... and for all the coaching decisions, schemes, playcaling, drafting and free agent moves, Mangini has inspired this team to win a grand total of one game.
Yes - I've seen that lots of Cleveland fans seem to think you can ignore free agency and build a team through the draft. And I agree, over about 5-7 years you can do that if you draft very very well, since many players need a few years to develop. Which is why most teams recognize the need to do both.
Free agency addition is important in two situations: 1) When you don't have a viable QB 2) When you need to pursue a high-priced free agent to fill that one/two needs on a good team. Right now, the Browns aren't in that situation. So their FA pick-ups right now are middling players. Both these situations are why someone like Minnesota pursues Brett Favre.
Free agents don't want to play for the Raiders either. Has that hurt them? I guess most Cleveland fans would say "Hell no". I'd disagree.
Sure, it's hurt them, but not as much as drafting poorly as the Browns have done. Look at Washington. They just keep throwing money at their problems instead of drafting smart. They're stuck in a perpetual state of mediocrity.
I'm never sure what people mean by the fact that someone has "solved the salary cap" problem. By definition no team can exceed the salary cap. Their alternative is to cut expensive players, trying to keep as many of the good ones as possible. That's not rocket science. Did Cleveland fans expect that Mangini would exceed the salary cap? What are you actually giving him credit for? I could cut players too if forced to - that doesn't make me a good coach.
Clearing cap space allows us to pay our #1 draft pick as well as our other picks AND money left over to pick up a few free agents, you dolt. That's what he's getting credit for, stupid. Mangini has cut/traded the expensive players who were me-first (Smith, Edwards, Winslow) or just plain sucked (Jones, Davis, Shaffer).
With Cleveland one needs to be wary of celebrating the fact that a mediocre player was drafted or signed and displaced a very bad veteran. All these guys are good, no doubt... good enough to win one game against the Bills by a score of 6-3 at last count. I'm not saying they can't improve - but the evidence we've seen is that they are what their record says they are, as Bill Parcells used to say... and for all the coaching decisions, schemes, playcaling, drafting and free agent moves, Mangini has inspired this team to win a grand total of one game.
Yep, one game. So let's fire Spagnuolo and Morris, too. Let's fire all the guys in this league that are trying to make chicken salad out of chickensh*t. And continue to ignore those coaches who have had underachieving teams this year: Rex Ryan, John Harbaugh, Gary Kubiak, etc. These are the guys who've done a piss poor job, in my estimation.
You have to understand something here, Joe. This is not a quick-fix situation in Cleveland. Mangini is not making quick-fix moves. He's making long-term fix moves: salary cap, more picks, change of culture, etc. But go ahead and continue to read PFT and look at the W-L record if it makes you happy.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login