@hoorta said:

To a certain extent you're right- but as Mik said- there's people in the world with a higher profile than Manziel who manage to go out and have a good time without getting their pictures plastered all over the internet. He needs (or Haslam needs) to get Giudo the cell phone stomper every time he heads out to party. & Like I said Luck and Manning have the keycode to the private entrance to St. Elmos. They can go into the basement party room, get shitfaced drunk- or have an orgy down there, get back into the limo- and no one saw a damn thing.

JF had better realize the stage suddenly got one hell of a lot bigger, now that he's graduated to the NFL. Sure, have a good time but realize the paparazzi are going to be on you like stink on shit. Choose who you party with carefully may be a good suggestion.

Yes- it's way different today than it was in the Namath and Marino era. Or going even farther back than that to the (cheatin' womanizing) Kennedys.But the whole nature of reporting has changed- there was a modicum of restraint back then- now, it's anything goes.

I don't trust that even if JM did as Luck and Manning do, that some of the sleazy media wouldn't make up a story and slap in a picture from their files. It seems the dye has been cast and the feeding frenzy is on.

Zombo said:

Quit making excuses for him, just embrace it.

I think it is awesome that he does what he wants on his days off and doesn't give a shit what people think.

Pittsburgh's Qb is a rapist, the Ravens running back is a wife beater, Half of the Bengals roster has a future doing hard time ... but all the attention is on our QB because he has fun and doesnt give a fuck.

Im glad he's in Cleveland. I think the Browns and Cavs are about to get real exciting. And the Tribe will always compete as long as they have Francona. Good days ahead for Cleveland.

I embrace Johnny Manziel. And everything that comes with him. Looking forward to training camp.

Z

I totally agree with you. Sorry for trying to defend him. I just get tired of all the do gooders trying to tell others how to live their lives.

@hoorta said:

Yeah- we can look up some "archived" stuff from his A&M days too. Same old, same old. "I'm in the NFL now, it will be different". Apparently not. Nice of you to dis a Pro Bowl teammate while you're at it.

Not sure who you say is dissing a Pro Bowl teammate. ??? If you're saying Manziel was by going out and being photographed, if the photos weren't taken last weekend then it's not a diss. If media continues to print archived photos in future weeks, will that also be proof of him dissing teammate.

I'm having a little trouble with all the people assuming that Manziel was s___ f___ drunk every weekend. Didn't see any of the Vegas pictures that looked that way and independent observers said he did not appear to be out of control. The latest ones, based on clothing, were not even taken at the same time. Do we really even know that they were from this past weekend or could they be archived pictures? I saw a different picture on another site that was obviously taken with a long-angle lens paparazzi style where he had on obviously different clothing. I think it has gotten to the point where the media is so on him that he can't go anywhere without being photographed and then people say "see he's drunk again" even if there is no evidence (like at a sporting event). The only ones where he appeared to be drunk were the swan pix and the money phone. I totally agree that neither of those were good looks.

@calfoxwc said:

I heard from CBD the team will be having a talk with JM soon after the latest money phone thing. I don't care about the dudes partying or antics. Let him have fun. But the whole money phone thing isn't a good look. It's never cool to flaunt your money when most of your fans are probably not so fortunate as him. He needs to at least tell his friends to stop snapping and sharing every damn thing he does. Os

**********************************************

I agree...but I do wonder about his Dad's comments - there's a difference between college antics

and drinking, and possibly having a legit problem with alcohol that shows up later on. I imagine you

don't have the success that JM has had if you did have that problem. We'll have to figure it's just

a kid being wild on campus and having fun with all the media attention that his success has brought.

He should be finding out that some of the people around him are not really the friends a guy should be trusting.

If we had social media back in days of Namath and other NFL players, I can't imagine the fallout..

Just to add a touch of realism to the oft quoted Dad's comments. When I was in college I went to a party at a neighboring college and had too much to drink. An infrequent occurrence I might add. Due to circumstances I won't go into, I didn't go home to my normal college residence but instead went to my mom's house. If my mom had had the number of a rehab facility, I would have been checked in the next morning. Parents always want the best for their children and frequently over-react. In my case I have the LEAST addictive personality known to man but my mother who supposedly knew me best didn't have a clue. Recently my older sister who has known me my entire life (I'm one of the older crowd referred to here) felt compelled to warn me about the addictive nature of pain pills I was prescribed after knee surgery. I just gave her my Are You Kidding Me? look! So much for family knowing us best!

Hopefully JM will follow the same path he did in college once fall practice began. Strictly football. In fact many people noted that start of real football was best for him because was football 24/7 and didn't have time for silliness. The one exception was the Scooby Doo Halloween thing and most viewed that innocently. Unfortunately he does show distinct signs of hyperactivity and that seems to get him in trouble.

@hoorta said:

If you didn't see it, Hoyer's ACL injury was a fluke, attempting a really bad slide- he caught his leg awkwardly. Heck, Dan Marino blew out his Achilles playing the Browns way back, and he wasn't even touched. So I can't see Hoyer being proven as particularly injury prone- at least not yet. True that it usually takes at least a year (or more) to come completely back from that sort of injury. See RG III, who tried to come back too soon. However, Hoyer has had several more months to rehab as opposed to Griffin, and he's been doing everything the docs will allow him to do. Plus Hoyer is more of a pocket passer- he only takes off running when he has to, and I'm pretty sure the coaches have told him to dive and not slide anymore. IMO he's no more an injury risk than any other pocket first qb.

I wasn't indicating that he is injury prone but that once an injury of this magnitude is sustained, complete recovery is a lengthy process as you indicated. I injured my ankle in an auto accident many years ago and was told by orthopedist at the time that would never be 100%. I went through almost a year of PT, but doc was right.

@tour2ma said:

Why was Sherman practicing against his own offense?Actually eliminating JM from the competition would have been a much bigger deal.Closest in this use is only relative to all other college defenses. It says nothing about how close it is to an NFL D.Whomever starts will be more likely to get hurt. But if we are comparing styles, then I do not see how Hoyer is the more likely of the two.I could have written (and actually believe I have written) almost all of your second quote... especially the "ultra competitiveness" bit. Where we differ is in the confidence that he will "realize" or Shanny can "channel".I see his competitiveness being game situation responsive. I also see it as being an essential part of what makes JM special.How can it be harnessed without reducing his impact?How can he survive the recklessness it induces?These opposing questions present the quandary that I see JM presenting.I see the read option being run in mini-camp and I shudder. Even if under orders to hand off every time, the league has pronounced any QB carrying out a fake fair game.For the record I do not regard JM as fragile. But as you ultimately pointed out in your reply to Gip's question, he has played hurt, and in 2013 his hurt diminished his performance.

The reason I said Hoyer is more likely to be injured is because he has had major knee surgery. It obviously has to be a concern and was the reason given for Mettenberger not going earlier in the draft.

I agree with most of what you said. Only time will tell about the "realize" and "channel" parts. In case you haven't noticed I am not one who believes that Johnny is the messiah. I don't believe he will be a bust but also don't know if he'll be a star. Only time will tell. He took a good number of hits from 300+ lb lineman and the shoulder injury occurred when he was diving near the goal line so I'm not that concerned about the play fake.

Katy is a suburb of Houston and (not wanting to stereotype) probably has more tall buildings than Cleveland. And I've been to Cleveland for work and visited the R&R HOF .

@the-gipper said:

(Can I assume we are probably talking about a grain silo?)

Can we please stop with the stereotypes?

@the-gipper said:

I am not sure we believe he is fragile.....I think we just recognize that he is "slight", and that with his frame he could be subject to injuries when hit awkwardly by 300 pound nasty boys on defense. I mean, he won't have a Ben Roethlisberger type frame to ward off those guys....he will have to use his speed and guile to do it.

And, hopefully, you are right.....that his capability to be elusive will make a world of difference.

I remember seeing a report on draft night about an analysis done on JM that compared his body build against other (larger and NFL successful) QBs. IIRC their analysis showed that because of his body build/musculature ratio he was at a lower risk of injury than the larger QBs. Wish I could provide a link because it was pretty interesting. But that's just computer geeks so what do they know. . Anyway, I guess time will tell. I know it was just college but I think all the AL and LSU defensive players weigh over 300 lbs. Saban is now looking at going smaller to catch future Johnny types.

@hoorta said:

Did he not have a nagging shoulder injury that affect his performance? There were a lot of people outside this board including more than a few pro talent evaluators that hung the "potentially fragile" label on JF.

Manziel will have to learn how to protect himself.

Ah- let me introduce you to Vesna- he of many names- the one and only resident board curmudgeon as we all know as Ghoolie. He's just warming up.

Yes, he did have a nagging shoulder injury that caused him to miss 2 or 3 series of downs in 2013. And it was caused by a risky play so hopefully he learned from that to protect himself. It, however, was not serious enough to require surgery. Although he is unquestionably immature, he is also smart enough to learn from his mistakes. He should realize that he doesn't need to carry the team as he did in college because the browns have built a strong defensive team. My biggest concern is his ultra competitiveness but I believe that Shanahan will build an offensive scheme to channel that.

@hoorta said:

Manziel was discussed and judged plenty on this forum pre-draft, there were quotes and opinions posted about him from damn near every pro talent evaluator on the planet. Well, the level headed and objective among us have said- If JFF was truly as great and "can't miss" as some of his more ardent supporters posit- there is no way in hell the quarterback needy Texans would have passed on him and taken Clowney instead. He lasted till pick #22 for a reason(s)- if you're being objective about it.

The circus aside- Manziel has perhaps the highest upside in this qb class- he also has the lowest floor. I've said many times his Heisman (and college stats) don't mean diddly-doo come NFL time, the list of recent Heisman bust qbs is proof enough of that.

As far as the Texans are concerned, I never thought that they would take him because he was not a good fit with O'Brien. I believe the same thing about Zimmer and the Vikings. Either case would have been a disaster. I agree about the highest upside but disagree on the low side. I'm going to wait and see but believe he'll either be average or great. No question that he is immature but he is smart enough to adapt if his game doesn't translate.

@miktoxic said:

i hear you. i think there might be one post here from a browns fan that brought up the fragile label in 55 posts.

so you'll group all the browns fans as saying that? why don't you specifically go after the person who says something you object to, point it out and debate it with them instead of painting such a broad stroke of all us browns' fans and then saying: "see, you guys root for him to fail."

Actually I never said you root for him to fail (although some do), but it is a common theme on multiple fan forums including this one the he is too small and too fragile. Look on the thread entitled "survey Wednesday" where someone describes JM as a car that is very fragile. And earlier on this thread someone wanted to take bets on when he would suffer season ending injury. That was actually the post I was replying to but I forgot to quote.

I think many times you come to a team because you like one player but in time you learn about other players on the team and develop an interest in them. To be perfectly honest I'm not sure that many people in Texas ( or Alabama in my case) would become Browns fans without a connection to a player or to Ohio. I am already developing an interest in Gilbert, Bitioni(sp?), and Crowell. I would hope that long term browns fans would welcome or at least accept the new fans.

As I said, twice even, I understand the difference between college and NFL. However, I guess I failed to get my point across. People insist upon calling him fragile although he played two complete seasons with no missed games. If I remember correctly he missed one series of downs in 2012 and two or three series in 2013. This was at the same time that the larger QBs for MO, LSU, GA, etc suffered season ending injuries. Not trying to bring up college exploits, but to refute the fragile label,

@miktoxic said:

we get the fact that manziel was a great college QB. we get the fact that a lot of you follow him because of that. we all hope he does that with cleveland.

just don't come on here saying that we all wish for him to fail because he wasn't named the starter. that's not our call. you point out great performances in college. great. +1. we point out great performances in the nfl. 0. plain and simple.

can we let this shit play out without the fans of the browns getting increasingly pissed at the fans of manziel because they think he is going to be this or that but yet we as browns fans don't give him enough respect for what he did in college.

should we really need to go into the great college QBs list? none of us want to do that, but yet you keep pointing it out.

What day of the week was the chase? Sunday?

@the-gipper said:

Here are your survey questions for this week. Give your opinions:

1. What were the best and worst trades in Browns history that you can recall?

Best: Richardson for 1st round pick

Worst:

2. Defending Soccer Champion Spain has been ingloriously aufed from any chance at defending their title. Big deal, or no?

Sure

3. If Johnny Manziel was a car, what kind of car would he be?

I think we have a winner - Manzielratti

4. Today, the Washington Redskins have had all their patents and trademarks cancelled by the US Patent Office. What affect do you think this will have?

PC strikes again

5. What city that does not now have an NFL team do you think should be the next to get one....expansion or move?

Some city in a state that doesn't have a team -- Birmingham??

6. Yesterday was the 20th Anniversary of the OJ Simpson chase. Where were you and what were you doing...if you recall.

Don't remember about the chase but trial verdict I was at work at NASA/JSC.

VesnaKociper said:

What week do you think Manziel will be hurt and knocked out for the season?

I am willing to bet he won't complete 8 games without getting pasted into oblivion.

I'm afraid it is far more likely that Hoyer will be hurt. Not at all wanting this to happen but just my opinion.