@the-gipper said:

The Cowboys have won one single playoff game in like the last 20 years (since their last SB title). The Browns have done that well. Until this year, the Niners hadn't even made the playoffs for a decade.

Until Peyton Manning arrived the Colts had been garbage for 25 years.

A lot of it has to do with the coach. (see Pats under BB), or QB (Colts with Manning), or both (Pats again)

Some of it is indeed "system", "front office" "ownership"....those are the ones that maintain. Steelers, yes. Giants, Packers perhaps.

Likewise the "bad teams" could be attributed to ownership. The Lions under William Clay Ford. The Cardinals under Bidwill. The Colts under Irsay Sr.

...and yes, the Steelers under Art Rooney Sr. It wasn't until Dan Rooney took over as the effective owner of the team in the 60s/70s that the Steelers began winning.

Randy Lerner certainly isn't off to a good start with his ownership. But, things can and do turn around.

I agree....... I really thought Holmgren would have had this team turned around very quickly. Maybe I'm puting too much on Holmgren but, it just seems like his influence hasn't showed up as much as I expected. I think this season should be a stepping stone towards the right direction for the Browns.

pittsburgh has had some pretty good luck with ohio people. chuck Noll, jack lambert, big ben to name a few. there are a lot of great ones from pa too. jim kelly, joe montana, dan marino, tony dorsett, the head coach to green bay, bill cowher to name several.

it must start with ownership because it seems like it's always the same teams making the playoffs or super bowls or at least they keep coming back after a decade or half a decade or so.

steelers

niners

giants

ravens

patriots*

cowboys

packers

colts

probably the best of the best are the steelers, cowboys, 9rs, packers because they seem to have a lot of history with winning. I really don't know if you could include the ravens or colts because they only won once and twice for the colts. possibly not even the 9rs, they had their decade and then not too much. i'm just saying over years and years it seems like the cream keeps rising to the top.

isn't ben from ohio ? he must fall under some of those stats that cleveland or ohio has the most perverts.

The lady was bragging to friends that she slept with Ben, was in hopes he got her pregnant to have his child. Months later she decided she was abused ? Get real. She has a history of crap like this stuff close to this type of issue. I'm with the other poster, I don't care about the money but I do care about my integrity and what is right. No morals for McNutty. I think Ben is innocent on the first charges but the second charge.......h'mmm I'm not to sure of.

There are perverts everywhere sadly but the worse of the worse are the ones that abuse children. I hope there is a special place in hell for just those scums.

In Pittsburgh some hang their hats on Arians was of the era with the Browns when the Browns were doing well so.........they think that makes him a good coach at this current time.

To change the subject, I thought we would see Holmgrens influence on the Browns team so far but, maybe I'm missing something. I guess they didn't build Rome in a year as the saying goes.

DC is good but, he seemed to have forgotten everything he knew about football when they lost to the Broncos. No over the top help for the corners, acting like Tebow was Barry Sanders, allowing possibly the worse QB in the NFL to torch them for over 300 yards. His arrogance or drinking the Tebow Koolaide lost that game for them. DC has to be flawless because Arians is such a horrible OC. An Arians offense is only good when Ben is having a great day and making something out of nothing. Never will you see a Steelers offense put a beat down on a defense, confuse a defense, have a defense on their heals despite the weapons they have.

Rumor has it that, Bruce Arians is on his way out in Pittsburgh, would anyone like to see him return to Cleveland ?

A lot of these guys have suspect personal lives or past issues. I try not to allow it to ruin my enjoyment of the game. I'll probably get blasted for this but, I think it is far worse wwhat Vick did to the dogs. Not to say what Ben or Brown did was okay if, they are actually guilty.

I guess the five touchdown passes Ben threw against the Titans will kind of change the curve of the chart.

Ben the rapist......hmmm, Never charged or arrested. Not saying he is innocent or not but, guilty people usually get arrested. How about Ray Lewis ? Is he a murderer ? Then there's the great Jim Brown that Cleveland fans still hang their hats on, their last true time of winning and having an identity of being a winner compared to .........well, eh....... you know what I mean.

Jim Brown has been arrested for rape and if memory serves me, around three times. Even if it wasn't three times for sure at least once. I believe the last time he got arrested for rape was back in the 80's when he was probably in his 40's or 50's.

That's it, knock Ben to feel good about the Browns or to soften the blow for the many years of abysmal football by the Browns but, don't forget about the teams own sorted past and present.

@bunsofsteel08 said:

We got beat with an Ugly Stick ... Lessons to be learned OR Ugly can be the season. I expect lessons be learned. RatBirds a Very Good team...far better than the Steelers at this point. But luckily the Playoffs are not decided by what kind of team you are at this point. We will see,

Browns... I think are a better team man for man ( Than the Bengals) . It didnt work out that way Sunday sorry guys.

It was brutal to watch that Steelers Ravens game. It put me in mind of the 89 season when the Browns handed us our heads on opening day. I think they beat us like 55 zip or maybe it just seems that bad. I don't know........the ravens may have exposed the chink in the armor with areas that, many of us Steeler fans were aware of.

Browns are better than the Bengals from the front office down to the water boy but sometimes it doesn't show up in the win column. I have little respect for the Bengals organization. They're cheap, they allow the players to be a distraction and they cut off their noses despite their faces with some of the stuff they have done in the past.

I never liked the Ravens. I never liked that they left Cleveland and that you fans got the shaft.It wasn't like you were not loyal fans and you guys still are despite the roller coaster ride these past several seasons. I never liked ray Lewis and he is the face of the team. If he just didn't do the chicken dance at the start of each game........I might be able to stomach him. He does a lot of trash talking before the games and when they lose, he runs from the cameras. I don't like the Balty fans either. They assumed that when they first came into the league that, they had history with us and they didn't.

The Steeler fans and Cleveland fans had history.......The Baltimore fans were given a gift if you ask me. As far as I remember they weren't good enough fans to maintain a Colts team or.......was it a different matter at the time ?

As a Steeler fans I don't do the talking trash on other team sites. Yes, our Steelers got owned and there is no excuse for an old fashion but whooping. I doubt we are as bad as the last game and I doubt the Ravens are as good as the last game. I haven't been paying attention to the Browns this off season so, I really don't know how things are going for your team. I think Holmgren wil have your team in contention in a season or two.

I enjoy football and I check out a lot of other team boards. There all about the same with the gloom and doom after a loss and especially an opening season loss.

I do wish Holmgren would take Bruce Arians back.

Not because I'm a Steeler fan but, I see a Steeler win of something to the outcome of 20-10. I think the Browns are the best non winning record team in the league or one of them anyway. It will be a hard fought game but too much is stacked against the Browns with a rookie QB, an away game, Ben coming back, our team wanting to prove something over last years loss to you guys. Then again, I wouldn't be surprised if the Browns did win. Nothing in the NFL surprises me these days.

@ballpeen said:

I don't know you Batman....so maybe you are very wealthy and astute in the ways of the world and money, but a lot of people at least fairly wealthy and astute in the ways of money have been scammed.

In my lifetime I have probably lost $400,000 in investments gone bad.....just the way it goes....and those were without people trying to rip me off, so I guess that makes me a dumb ass....but I don't think so since I have a pretty nice nest egg and have done pretty well with my investments....let's just say I love McDonalds.....I bought in early and hard. McDonalds is the best restaurant company ever.

I'm sure there are many wealthy people that have been scammed. As I said, I feel for anyone that goes through a tough time. Glad your McDonald stock is doing so well....you can thank me and my kids.

I'm sory for his losses or anyones losses. Be it that they have money or not, they worked for it sacraficed for it and what have you. To be scammed is also a shame. A persons damages, failures or heartbreak feels the same no matter who, what or where they are in life.

Endymion said:

I really didn't bother to read the poorly written post that started this thread, but I did think the title was appropriate for the following comment.

Mark Madden, Pittsburgh Shock-Jock Radio Host, said the following (I'm probably paraphrasing):

"The only reason the Ravens won a Super Bowl was because God was rewarding Art Modell for screwing over the city of Cleveland."

I really don't know why some teams can't get it together or why they go through the slumps. The only thing I know for sure is, Mark Madden is a piece of crap. He is a poor excuse for getting his station or paper listeners or readers. The thing is, the guy is savvy and doesn't need to rely upon the trash he talks. Most Pittsburgers hate the guy from what I can tell.

I don't follow Bellicheat or his team, not enough respect for him and their orgainzation to do so. Without following him, I really didn't know of any of his students. All I remember is that Weis and Crennel bomb.

Other than Mangini, is any of Bellicheats ex-coaches still coaching at any level ?

Congradulations on your win I, hate the Bengals. I agree with the poster that said the Browns have been better than their record shows.

@bunsofsteel08 said:

WOW... thats sad man. How could a parent allow their kid to do that ?

We were having a cookout at our house and their kid starts screaming in my daughters ear and I mean screaming, " your ugly, your weird, I hate you. !" My downs daughter is five and their daughter is eight and she plays with my eight year old daughter. This wasn't the first time but, her parents were never around for the other crap. I figured well, here are parents to witness this and they didn't say a word, never told her one freakin thing. There are other neighbors at our house too and we are all just sitting outside watching the fireworks but the true fireworks started when I grabbed the father. I grabbed him by his shirt and told him, if I ever hear their kid or any parents kid so much as say boo to my daughter or look at her cross-eyed I, will pick up your kid and beat you with them. I was red hot and out of control with my temper and had he even flinched or tried to down play it I would have beaten him, his wife and two kids into the ground.

They left and actually, everyone left our house. Ten minutes later everyone came back except for the neighbor I grabbed along with his wife and kids. Dang ! I'm all fired up now !

As another poster stated, she just wants accepted and she tries so hard to fit in but the reality of it, we can't take our eyes off her because she just doesn't understand and she doesn't even know enough to have fear that could save her life. She will walk in front, behind a moving car. She will walk off the edge of a roof if you gave her a chance. She can't speak she can't do a lot of stuff but, she is smart in her own way.

When they told me my daughter would be born with Downs it was the end of the world for me because as a parent you want everything for your kids and good health at the top of the list. I will love her all my life but I do worry who will take care of her when I'm gone. No one could ever give her the love like parents gives a child. It took being a parent to know this. I know one thing for sure, what we consider normal and good won't allow the gates to heaven fling open as fast for when my daughter or any other challenged person would have.

Sorry for getting off the football subject.

Oh yeah, the Bengals have to have the worse looking uniforms and helmets. Just nasty.