@the-gipper said:

Here is the way I would like to see it as to who gets in the playoffs:

AFCN: Cleveland

WCs: Jets/Bengals

NFCE: Philly

You're seriously wishing for Philly? Really? Philadelphians are by far the most obnoxious Pennsylvanians...and I'd say the most obnoxious sports fan in the entire country. As much as you may hate Pittsburgher's and the Steelers, our obnoxiousness is like garbage bag compared to the landfill that Philadelphia is. And besides, their QB abuses Cleveland's mascot.

I would be absolutely shocked if Cincinnati doesn't win the ACFN Division crown this year. I'm not convinced another team from the North will make the play-offs. There's some pluses and negatives regarding the Ravens, Steelers and Browns. I just can't sort out what the order will be, and I don't see any of them with a record better than 10-6...which is worst I see the Bengals finishing.

@jafbf said:

According to Grossi, Jarvis Jones spent the night in the Hospital with a Chest Injury (another Bruised Lung?).

He fell on the ball following an interception (later waived off due to a penalty). He is listed as having an unspecified Chest Injury, and they are reporting is that all tests came back negative.

@calfoxwc said:

I see it as:

2. The Browns are not showing but simple packages, because it's freakin preseason.

and, they are still refining the understanding of their new systems, still making a few mistakes.

4. The biggest problem with last night's game is, the Browns showed their limited stuff for

two whole preseason games. It looked liked the Colts secondary jumped routes that

the Browns were running. Wait til the regular season. The Browns are not showing

much in the preseason on both sides of the ball.

The third preseason game tends to be different from the other three preseason games. There is some limited game planning involved and the starters tend to see greater than a half of play time. While this game isn't quite a finished product, it will definately demonstrate the course a team is on to open the season. I suspect the Colts are a play-off calibre team, and while I think the Browns will be improved this year...they probably won't be improved enough to take down most play-off contenders. While it is true, that teams simplify their game plans so as not to tip their hands for the opening game...you still have to practice the harder stuff and the third game is where you try some of it out. If you can't get simple stuff down, well, there isn't much hope for a more complicated offensive system.

In all, from what little I've seen of the Browns on the NFL Network, it appears that Cleveland is definately ahead of Pittsburgh. Pittsuburgh's new grand stud offensive line (touted by another regular Steelers fan poster here) is kind of MIA. There's no injury excuse to point to on the offensive line...though if they continue to play that way Roethlisberger will soon be lost for the season (and without him any hopes of a winning season will evaporate). It also seemed that everytime Pittsburgh managed a big play someone on the offensive line was flagged for holding. Also, to open the regular season, it appeared we had some talent/depth at running back, now the Steelers are grasping at straws. The only good thing I can see for Pittsburgh right now is Jarvis Jones appears to be an upgrade from the broken-down Harrison. Jones now looks to be the starter going into the season and I thought he'd sit behind gawd-aweful Jason Worilds this year.

Jim Harbaugh likes a fairly complicated offense, similiar to the one he ran when he QB'ed Indy. In terms of McCoy getting cut, it may be due more to his inability to grasp than offense than due to physical ability. Further, Senaca Wallace has a style closer to Kapernick's than does McCoy. A third round pick spent on a bust QB isn't a franchise killer, ala Ryan Leaf. Though, come to think of it, the Chargers didn't exactly suffer too long after that Leaf pick.

@the-gipper said:

How can you forget a guy named "Chudzinski" Shrike?

Generally, I type my thoughts out really, really fast and post. Then I read it quickly and promptly re-edit it for several spelling/grammar errors. As I was writing my mind wondered to the question "who the heck is Cleveland's coach again?" The first name that came to mind was Shurmur. Then I thought, nah, they changed that guy I think. So, I didn't feel like doing an internet search and went with my first thought. I reasoned...Shurmur's only been there one year, they have to be giving that guy the customary second chance despite kicking out the entire front office staff when Haslam took over. Lastly, I don't feel there's any reason for me to use my anti-entropic powers to correct that little minor mistake.

Zombo said:

Are you really giving some sort of division preview and you have no idea who the coach of the Cleveland Browns is?

Zombo

Oh, yeah...I guess I forgot about that memorable coaching change to Chud this off-season. I wish I could say I was drunk or something when I wrote that post. But in all reality, I'm not really going to remember your coach's names all that well unless they start winning...cause they just won't be around long enough. I'd probably think Lerner was still running the team if he wasn't for that Steelers mole called Haslam.

@the-gipper said:

Golic thinks that this division is one of the strongest inthe NFL. Greenberg thinks the opposite.

Golic thinks the Steeler's defense will flourish once again, Greenberg thinks not, that it has gotten old and lost key components (like Jame Harrison)

Both think the Browns will be improved, but not enough to make a push for a .500 record.

Both think the Ravens have lost too much leadership from their team.

Both think the Bengals should win the division.

How could both think the Bengals will win the division, when Greeny had the Ravens with a better record, or is that typo?

When you look at it on paper, there's no reason for anybody to pick another team other than the Bengals as winning the division. They've made the play-offs the past two years and have had no key free agency departures. The Ravens have had alot of leadership loss and Flacco's two key wideouts (Boldin and Pitta) are not on the team this year. The Steelers haven't faired better. While their defense has been ranked #1 the past few years, that's a bit of lie. The defense doesn't turn the ball over and they still give up the big plays over the middle to the top QBs. Pittsburgh's recieving corp has downgraded, though it appears the run game will be improved this year. Cleveland appears to have a stout defense lined up for this year, but the Brown's still don't seem to have much offensive firepower. I also don't think Lombardi really cares for Shurmur and the Browns will likely join next year's coaching carosel.

In terms of the division, other than Cincy, I'm not sure if another team can make the play-offs this year. Teams suffer injuries every year and injuries to Ben Roethlisberger the past two years have cost Pittsburgh any hope of advancing in the play-offs in 2011 and any chance of reaching the play-offs in 2012. Flacco has to step up to a new level and Harbaugh is facing a daunting statistic to maintain his consecutive play-off streak. If Weeden steps up this year, the Brown's could overtake the Steelers and Ravens. I'm not really sure what to expect this year other than, I just don't see Pittsburgh making the play-offs in 2013.

@hoorta said:

Harrison is a not too bright head-hunting thug. In case you think I'm being a homer- TJ Ward got fined for a royal hit he put on a defenseless player in the end zone- and learned from it. Harrison had to get suspended a bunch of times before he got the message (maybe).

I never said Harrison was too bright. The play against Colt by Harrison warranted nothing more than a 15 yard penalty. In all reality, TJ Ward will probably cream some other defenseless player in the future, should he be suspended then? The Harrison play comes to mind because I'm familiar with it being a Steelers. However, those types of plays happen many times with different teams all through-out the season. (I not an encylopedia of the every player in the NFL) Should these types of hits be suspendable? I don't think so. How do you change courses in a fraction of a second playing at full throttle? Why didn't they suspend that Patriot who deliberately launched his helment upwards into a defenseless reciever coming down with the ball? (I believe that play happened the same weekend as the Harrison hit).

There's no doubt Harrison was made an example out of. I don't understand why so many football players open their mouths to the media. Did Harrison really think Goodell would rule favorably in his situation after the types of comments he made about the commish? Unfortunately, when Goodell makes an example out of Harrision and justifies it with player safety, it compels him to maintain that legislated safety displine with other players. I'd have preferred if Goodell had suspended Harrison for being a general butt-head, than in the name of player safety. Seriously, after the Harrison Sports Illustrated article, surely Goodell could've suspended him for conduct unbecoming of a league player. He did that to Ben Roethlisberger after all.

@the-gipper said:

If the Seahawks want to run the read option...WTF are they doing with Brady Quinn at backup....or the Panthers with DA there?

Colt McCoy might run you the WCO....but I am not so sure about the read option.

Last year the Steelers at least had the Charlie Batch's and Byron Leftwich to be BR's backup. Somewhat similar guys.

No, if these guys want to run this read option, then it was the Panthers, not the Pats, who should have picked up Tebow, who can run that. Or someone should get Brad Smith. And Vince Young should have been kept by the Eagles.

It's all salary cap and pedigree. How many of these QBs you mentioned should be out of the league by now? They were all number #1 draft choices and they are all on the cheap. Everything is based around the franchise QB, he consumes around 10-12% of cap space. Teams don't want to invest more in a QB. Coaches in general prefer a known quantity to developing an eventual successor. Teams would have to invest some money in logical successor, especially since there are so few "surgeon" QBs out there. Matt Kassel looked to be molded in the vien of Tom Brady, yet after his big season the Chiefs offered him a ridiculous salary that the Patriots would never pay for a back-up guy. All that investment in a successor was pretty much for naught.

In addition, there's a false sense of security that comes with having a former first round QB on your depth chart, even if he's flunking out of the league. Most of these guys are going to stick around if they can fill a roll on a team, because they're less likely to be offered a big contract due to past failures. The guy who looks like he's Tom Brady Part 2, without the major failure has more promise and will command more money than the rehashed first rounders.

Then there's the chaos factor. If...no, when your franchise guy goes down, you hope it's only for 1-2 weeks. Then you cross your fingers and hope your opponents are more confused about what you're doing than you are. The goal is to sneak in a few victories in before the opponents figure out that smoke screen and crush you.

I'd bet the sentiment would be alot different on this board if the Brown's QB was RG3, Kepernick, Wilson, Newton or Vick. Most of you were screaming for James Harrison to be taken back out to the woodshed and executed after he knocked ole' Colt McCoy out of the game with a concussion. Whether or not, the read option is a fad, Goodell will continue to water down the game of football with idiotic rules on how to properly hit someone in a given situation. I'm surprised Yoga is a training camp requirement. The league is scared of the concussion lawsuit and they are fixated on legislating thier liability by rule changes until the NFL approximates flag football. Hell, I'd bet before Goodell is done, they'll have enough rules in place that women will be playing In NFL. The Brown's probably won't trailblaze the NFL with female participation but I suspect Dan Rooney to be all over that, to add to his legacy.

On the original topic, I agree with Mark S.'s assessment for the Division Champion Play-off teams in the AFC.

1) Cincinnati

2) Houston

3) Denver

4) New England

I'm not sure who the wild cards will be. I want to believe the Steelers are play-off bound, but I just don't see it happening this year. The Steelers have alot of potential with some young unproven players, but then again, so does every team. Roethlisberger can make this team overachieve, even if some talent is not realized. I see the Steelers defense slipping out of the top 5 this year. Even though they were rated no#1 last year, they really weren't. The Steelers defense just couldn't turn the ball over and on many critical drives they let the opponent score. I think Pittsburgh's D will improve over the course of the season, but there will be alot of opportunities for opponents to score big against Pittsburgh in the first 6-8 weeks.

Objectively, the Steelers could be 6-10 or 10-6, and based on what I know of the Browns, they seem to have for the potential for their season to break similarly. An injury or a few lucky breaks can really be the difference between landing a play-off spot or getting a high draft spot for either Pittsburgh or Cleveland. The Ravens have suffered some big loses this offseason, but Harbaugh has been one helluva coach for them. I'd see the Ravens as 7-9 to 11-5...at least before Pitta went out for the year. The Pitta loss was huge for the Ravens...but if Flacco can find a new safety net, that might not matter as much as I think.

The Dolphins are over-rated and I don't know why Mark overlooked Indy (for either Pittsburgh or Miami)...I'm not really seeing any other play-off teams from the East. The Chargers and especially Indy can still threaten for a play-off spot.

The Browns franchise did move. I still remember the Baltimore Browns logo behind Modell at the press conference announcing the move. At the end of the day the city of Cleveland kept all the history of the Browns and were granted a new franchise to replace the one Modell took to Baltimore. Modell signed what was necessary to avoid being bogged down in a protracted legal battle. You can call it move something different, you can pass laws or court rulings to call it something else. But at the end of the day, the Browns franchise relocated to Baltimore. The heart of our rivalry (at least from Pittsburgh's point of view) has transferred from Pittsburgh to Baltimore.

IP = Intellectual Property

@the-gipper said:

The Browns franchise NOT moving goes quite beyond semantics. In a true sense, the Browns merely "deactivated" from field play for a few years, but in all other matters it still was a viable, operating franchise.

Modell left for the new Baltimore franchise....along with a few of his front office staff, and some player contracts were assigned to that new franchise, but that was almost all that happened.

Aside from the "intellectual property" that remained with the Browns (name, records, colors, etc) nearly all of the physical property that belonged to the Browns remained as well. That includes obviously the Berea training facilities and offices, but also, equipment, training gear etc. While downsized because a few people left for Baltimore and because a few retired, there was a full working staff at the Browns facilities. Maintenance men, equipment men, sales and promotional people, clerical staff, etc. were employed there by "The Cleveland Browns Trust". While most of these people got their paychecks from the NFL office who was the overseer, they worked for the Cleveland Browns.

I disagree. When a new league franchise is started that franchise typically gets the first draft pick as well as picking up a few players from other existing teams (can't recall the name of the veteran draft at the moment). Modell moved the Browns franchise (as he retained all the existing players still under a contract when the team was the Browns). Had the Browns went on hiatus and Modell started a new franchise, all the players would've become free-agents.

Teams that move cities and change names, rarely keep the same colors, logos of their previous franchises. (Personally, I don't think any team should keep the names/logos, when they switch cities). The IP of the Browns is probably a first for the NFL, but it's not enough of an argument to say that is not a valid answer to the question. For that matter, which one of those teams still promotes/displays their history in a former incarnation? It might make for a nice little aside in a historical video, but not for much else. Previous city history is also unimportant when a team moves to a new city (whether they keep the old name or assume a new one). The residents of city, really only care about the historical achievements of their team in their city. Further, training facilities, offices and stadiums never leave their physical locations (so I don't understand that argument). Lastly, the average/lesser paid middle-class worker tends to stay in his current location with family roots, as it's just too expensive to move and a job paying similar wages is typically available locally.

@nickers said:

@the-gipper said:

I call this Vacation Trivia because I am doing just that Saturday...going on vacation. So you will have a whole week or more to mull this over. Here are your questions:

1. Of the current 32 NFL teams, there are 5 that at one time were located in a different city AND had a different name. Name those 5 teams

Cleveland rams/browns

Baltimore colts/ravens

Raiders Oakland/LA

2. What does this list of teams represent, exclusively:

Green Bay Packers

Chicago Bears

Cleveland Browns

NY Giants

Pittsburgh Steelers

The black & blue division

For question #1 above

1. Tennesse Titans/Houston Oilers (already provided)

2. Kansas City Chiefs/Dallas Texans (already provided)

3. Baltimore Ravens/Cleveland Browns

4. Chicago Bears/Decatur Staleys

5. Washington Redskins/Boston Braves

Teams that moved that didn't change names (sorry needed this list get my answers straight):

1. Arizona Cardinals/St. Louis Cardinals/Chicago Cardinals

2. St. Louis Rams/LA Rams/Cleveland Rams

3. Oakland Raiders/LA Raiders/Oakland Raiders

4. Indianapolis Colts/Baltimore Colts

Question #2:

Teams with the most football "championships" and I think it's from most to least (but I'm not sure about how many the Giants have pre-Super Bowl era).

@erie-dawg said:

Huh... standing outside his house? 3am? leaving the cambodian kithen that gives hand jobs in the backroom?

Don't you know who you are questioning? Vagipoon is Mr. LeBeau's personnel assistant, there is nothing, absolutely nothing Steelers related that he doesn't know and speak about with 100% truthful, honest conviction. Why would he elaborate on this story? It's not like he's helping Mr. Adams hide some happy weed you know. Continue to convert these heathen Brownies to the Steelers way oh great Vagipoon.

Why are cold weather stadiums unpopular with Northerners? Do you regularly attend Super Bowls? Do you just hate hearing all the wimpy reporters/broadcasters complain about cold weather? Just because college rewards unpaid athletes with a warm weather bowl game, doesn't mean the highly paid NFL players need a similiar incentive. Football isn't a summer sport. Frankly, I think the NFL should rotate the Super Bowl between all team cities (provided those stadiums meet the NFL's revenue generating requirements). Actually I don't care about the revenue generation, but that's how the NFL selects stadiums.

An outdoor warm weather stadium doesn't garauntee nice weather conditions...

@the-gipper said:

Maybe...or maybe they will get lucky and it will be like 55 degrees that day. Global Warming.

Nah, I want a super cold ice bowl game with lots of snow. It's probably the only chance there will be in my lifetime for a Super Bowl with horrendous conditions...and that will make it memorable.

Zombo said:

I can be a lot of things. Tolerance for Steeler pole-smokers is not my strong suit.

And congrats on using "Harrison" and "gentlemen" in a sentence, we'll give you a "First!" on that one ...

Mr. Mellon is far to subtle to be a Steelers agent. We are brash barbarians, who can't cloak ourselves in orange/brown for pole-smoking pleasures. I suspect he's from the Bengal's as they have had to spend years hiding their fandom. They do own the wife-beating roidmonger, Harrison, now.

@vagitron said:

Ike Taylor had a bad game but there was supposed to be deep safety help and Mundy bit run. Ike Taylor is one of the hardest working players in the NFL. He works out tirelessly, spends a majority of his offseason with Shaw in Orlando and STILL runs a sub 4.3 forty SOOOO ednymion your point is REALLY damn moot. As far as Lebeau is concerned he was dealing with a lot of injuries but since Lake entered the fold the Corners started playing press and our lb's started to make noise. I expect more of the same this coming season, especially with Woodley hopefully showing up like he needs to show up.

Yeah, bah, I forgot, you were right there with Le Beau advising him on the play-call. What a fluke that the smartest, strongest, fastest corner back in the league got beat by a noodle armed QB and a leprechan reciever. All those big plays I saw Ike give up in 2012, well they were obviously just some imaging errors on my HDTV. Oh and that noise our linebackers made so damaged my hearing the past two years that I now need a hearing aid. Yeah, I love having the number #1 defense that has the lowest total sacks in the league. Can't wait for more of that same.

I bow to your superior knowledge ole' Vagitronic...convert these heathen Browines to our superior, perfect Steelers way.

@vagitron said:

He also didn't "beat the xxxx out of the Steelers" He beat the hell out of Ryan Mundy who is no longer on the team on the same 3 or 4 pass plays.

The Great and Powerful Ike Taylor was burned on the first/last play in overtime that won the game for Denver, not Mundy. Shoeless Ike Taylor is still on the team and now 2 years slower. Tebow will still burn the Steelers as long as Le Beau runs the defense. Le Beau doesn't know how to combat QBs who can't throw the ball well but run like gangbusters. Any team that picks Tebow up for a QB can run roughshot over the Steelers Defense.

Redesigning your offense for Tebows strengths is silly. John Fox did a masterful coaching job, but it couldn't be sustained for an entire career. Tebow is really a one trick QB pony. I don't feel bad that he can't get a job and it's really sad that the media fawns all over him. Maybe Ryan Leaf would've been revered if he knelt down and prayed on the sidelines too. As others said, a simple positional switch to Full/Half Back and the guys a football star with some huge stats to go along with it.