Arizona is one of the most liberally armed states in the nation. Pretty much anyone can get and carry a weapon, even concealed, anywhere they want. How come the fact that everyone has more guns didn't prevent this from happening? I'm told these types of massacres are the price you pay for living in a free society, but I'm just wondering why we have to pay over and over again. Is there a compromise we can reach on at least using all possible efforts to keep these kinds of mentally ill people from acquiring such a powerful weapon so easily? And don't assume I'm attacking the second amendment. I'm just searching for a solution to something that seems to be repeating itself.

I think if anything this should help all sides to lighten up a bit. There's always going to be loonies doing crazy shit regardless of rhetoric, but maybe we should pretend that everybody had something to do with this crisis and we should just try to keep political discussion within the realm of productivity and avoid the bull-shit name-calling and hyperbolic exaggerations.

@kosar_for_president said:

Welcome to the board honky.

See, now you got me messed up. I was gonna call you something, but then you said, "welcome to the board" and now I feel like all obligin' and shit. Oh well, One more Dortmunder and it's bedtime for me.

@kosar_for_president said:

Where do I start with this one. Dude, the joke is in the comment. I have black friends, one named Ralph, yes Ralph and black, is our lead programmer, smart dude. The whole idea of racial stereotypes is bullshit and I find it funny how people react. The people who buy into to them show their intelligence and THAT is what I find funny. Yes I like extra mayo, love fried chicken and watermelon, have tons of rhythm, yet do not sell crack and don't smoke Newports. I am 1/4 black and I be so white, I literally glow in the winter. Dude EVERYONE is a half breed of some sort. By 2100, we will all be one race. Calm down and take it with a grain of salt. Don't buy into the bullshit of keeping culture apart. That is the intention of stereotypes, nothing more.

Dogma, embrace the fact that Jews are cheap, Honkeys can't dance, Slant Eyes sing karaoke 16 hour a day, Niggas sell crack, Beaners are lazy, Sand Niggas ride camels, because the sooner you do, the sooner you will realize all of it is bullshit. Take a step back and think about it. These stereotypes were put in place to diminish the other culture to keep them apart to make it more mysterious and scary, when in actuality, my black friend Ralph from Wilmington, actually shops at the Gap, my Mexican friend from Denver John Alegrea is the hardest worker I know, my Jewish friend David in Cleveland never let me put my hand in my pocket to by a beer (yes he had money, but not cheap), never seen an Oriental sing karaoke expect in the movies and as for Arabs, I think some actually do ride camels, lol.

Dude calm down and don't put so much stock into what people say. A long time ago, I came to the conclusion of not correcting people when they said N***** and MEANT it. I just sit back and laugh at his dumb ass, life is too short my friend. Let them go through their life and live under a veil of stupidity. You can't buy that type of entertainment.

As the genius Dave Chapelle said, "Our differences are only cultural, people".

Peace, nigga.

p.s. If you would like I can tell you where everyone of these stereotypes originated and why if you would like.

Apparently people think I'm a lot more hyper than I actually am. When I get my blood pressure checked they usually ask me if I just woke up or something. Most people call me a sarcastic smart ass. I don't give two craps about what people say about each other. Apparently to some, it seems I've been going over board, but usually I'm just trying to stay awake. Point is, if you say some thing about someone and they get pissed and ask you not to, you can't really call them a jerk for getting upset.

BTW Kosar, I was lamely trying to make a joke with you. I'm so white I'm nearly transparent. Anyway, I've got a few more Dortmunders to get through before the end of the night, which might have some influence on the coherency of what I post.

And Oh yea, I got a black friend. Well I got a bunch of black friends, well actually where I work I'm part of the minority. I get called the N word all day long and usually get a laugh when I answer with the same.

@calfoxwc said:

First of all, I love fried chicken and watermelon. In fact, we plan on having chickens/coop this spring, and I

will grow watermelon. I wonder if that means I will find my rythm... cool ! @@

And, Dogma, I say this about that:

Do you mean that the "N" word is more powerful even though people of Appalachian heritage were working in coal mines for pennies a day, and dying of black lung? And were getting killed in poorly constructed mines?

And, when they wanted higher wages to be able to eat and not owe the coal company more money than they made, they were beaten up and/or killed by company thugs? Or left to die with their injuries by the coal company who wouldn't pay for their medical care?

Their widowed women and children were left as starving waifs with no incomes, kicked out of the union housing, sometimes by force?

Or getting injured cutting trees for firewood to heat their homes, or farming? Or intimidated into "selling" their farms to

corrupt strip mining companies? Working long days harvesting and storing food so they wouldn't starve over winter?

My point is, I don't cherry pick the issues I feel are unjust out of politics. "UNJUST" is label administered by having PRINCIPLES.

I care about more than just one incidence of travesty. It isn't about votes for my party. That is why I find it ludicrous to

say one slur is a lot worse than another slur.

Cal I'm not going to pretend that you don't already know the difference. The plight of coal miners is well documented and PART OF WHY I am pro labor.

There is positively no way possible to compare them to American slaves. Period. Slavery has happened throughout history, but the slavery in this country was among the most unique and destructive in all of history. In ancient days in many cultures slaves were treated as servants and able to earn citizenry. Yea, there are plenty of examples of brutality, but there are very, very, very few examples of a people who were literally treated as livestock, to the point of breeding and selling. Plus, this happened in this country during an enlightened time. A time when most people had a higher level of intelligence and understanding. It took a lot of denial to believe these people were not humans.

Again, use the slur, accept the consequences. Stop insisting that you should be able to insult anybody you want with out consequence. If someone called me a cracker or hillbilly or liberal I would say, please don't refer to me in that way.

@kosar_for_president said:

It's cause your black

So why's it cause I'm black?

Are you trying that my overall standardized math test scores fall below the standardized scores of other ethnic groups bitch!

That's not what your mom said last night!

@westside-steve said:

So no examples?

Whew!!!!!

Just a looney over the top rant attacking me??

Sp what is I've personally said to sent you over the edge?

Or (and take a breath and think hard) are you mad at somebody else?

WSS

Oh I'm sorry. I thought you were actually accusing me of supporting Hitler and Marxism.

But of course you had no intention of doing that when you included those names in your post to me. So I apologize. My bad.

My problem was thinking anybody who wanted to bring in the names Hitler or Marx was a lunatic who was so deeply ingrained in the dogma of the political correctness of the extreme right that maybe they needed to hear the truth instead of the same old garbage they reinforce themselves with on a continual basis.

OK, you have no Hitlers or Marxes. YAY! My bad.

@westside-steve said:

Avoiding it?

Sorry.

OK I think that's a ridiculous point.

Better?

WSS

Seriously?

You don't think it's either monumentally hilarious or tragically sad that Dr. Laura quit her well paying job to claim a false-hood?

No of course your focused on the regular everyday, maybe not so bright (like Dr. Laura) person who phoned in and made a fool of herself in exactly the same way most people do when they phone in on radio shows.

You actually believe Dr. Laura is a victim?

Seriously????

WOw!

@westside-steve said:

Not really.

Give me a few examples of the extremism of mainstream conservatives.

We have no real Hitlers or Marxs in the senate.

WSS

Why are you even bringing up names that Beck, Limbaugh and all the other crapheads throw out as if they're meaningful. Conservatives have identified themselves as being right of the current republican party. You have identified everyone else as non-American, liberal, baby killing, terrorist loving, sodomizing, commie, socialist, tree huggers, who want you to marry Bob next door.

You guys sound like paranoid lunatics. You've painted yourselves into a conservative corner. Everyone is the enemy. Everyone else is Hitler or Marxist.

You have such little regard for your fellow citizens that you actually believe anybody would allow these things to happen and only you and your conservative buddies have the credentials to run this country because everyone else is so naive they'll let Chairman Mao come back to life and live in the White House.

Do you guys ever listen to yourselves?

You hate non conservatives when you lose elections, you hate non conservatives when you win elections. It's kind of all about the hate.

@kosar_for_president said:

No I'm 1/4 black, I can use the word N***** when ever I want. How's THAT for a double standard.

While trying to do the math I actually came up with 3/4 standard. Of course I suck at math so maybe it's more or less of a standard.

@kosar_for_president said:

No I'm 1/4 black, I can use the word N***** when ever I want. How's THAT for a double standard.

Anybody who likes fried chicken and watermelon is a true American in my eyes. Of course I don't sponsor Kosar, so i don't give a crap what he says cause I'm not losing money over it.

@westside-steve said:

Some.

Hey over the last 40 odd years I've been all over the map too.

And I don't identify wholeheartedly with either party or any third party.

Seems you'd be on the liberal side just from the list of people who piss you off. And sure the labels aren't very tight but you've been pretty free with the left and right labels.

No big deal.

Ya must be older'n I thought if you voted for Nixon.

WSS

I disagree with conservatives and yea, that's a label. It's a label I freely use because they have identified themselves as 'conservatives" and the only true Americans and everyone else are "liberals".

The fact is, to disagree with a conservative does not mean I or anybody else who disagrees with them is a liberal. I don't even know what a liberal is except that conservatives use the term to conveniently identify anybody who disagree with them.

Believe me I read all the clever BS that they send around to each other about what a liberal is, but that's all part of the propaganda agenda.

Don't you think it's more accurate that conservatives are extremists and the rest of us are somewhere around the center?

First, you will still be able to purchase and own original versions of these books. New ones with the words switched are being sold. Do I think that's right? In an artistic sense it's criminal. In a realistic sense, why do people read the King James version of the bible?

To Westside, why do you insist on avoiding my point that Dr. Laura is just a whining wanna-be victim?

@westside-steve said:

trying to get a take on your position.

As a progressive who claims to be to the left of Obama I wonder if you're an anti war guy.

If not I'm just wondering which ones have been cool.

WSS

I just read that only 31% of the people admit to being democrat and 29% admit to being republican. I've voted for Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, John Anderson, Bill Clinton, and Ralph Nader.

Locally, I've voted both parties, but have yet to see an Independent on that level who appears capable of accomplishing anything in Washington or Columbus.

I'm not your "progressive" or your "liberal" or any other notch you want to dismiss me to.

I tend to not vote republican on a national level, due to their beliefs about what constitutes an American. I don't think they're concerned about anybody else's rights but their right to make a profit. That's very generalistic or stereotypical, but I'm not perfect.

I've stated before I'm very ANTI-conservative pundits. I believe Ronald Reagan and GWB were the 2 worst president in my time. I understand Richard Nixon broke the law and he was stuck in a tough unwinable war that he wanted to win. I blame Kissinger for that. Other than that his time as president seemed to be a very optimistic period. Except for that damn war.

Carter was an idealist who got stuck in a hostage crisis and an energy crisis that his idealism couldn't provide answers for.

Reagan started the polarization of this nation with his attacks and insults to any one who disagreed with his policy. He also made it popular to blame the "Welfare Queen" for this nation's economic woes. He made democrats (liberals) and equated them with communists, moving the Cold War to our citizens.

Every election since then has been a practice in hatred.

I'm pro-labor in the sense that workers do the work and need to be protected and compensated. I believe there are unions who do well and unions who are corrupt. There are companies and corporations who do well and some that are corrupt. I don't own or run a corporation, so that kind of guides where my interests lie. I'm not anti-business because that would be anti-worker. I have concerns when I see that workers' wages have risen relatively very little since the 80's, but owners' and CEOs' salaries and profits have increased over 400%, plus many of their employees' jobs have left our shores.

I believe the propagandists are for keeping the status quo and the status quo is much like a Cola War. Pepsi or Coke? Who cares. (I prefer Coka-Cola)

Even I wouldn't care if I believed that serious issues were being dealt with by serious and intelligent people(both sides) working towards compromise, but it seems pundits (both sides) want "no compromise". I believe this will hurt us all in the end and I have grand kids now that I care about.

I have a job, mortgage, family, values and beliefs that I hold dear. I have never served in the military, but many in my family have. I trust and honor the military and the police. I trust many politicians(both sides) to a certain extent and believe that some of the most effective ones have been involved in some sort of corruption to accomplish their goals.

I believe the Tea Party is as idealistic as Jimmy Carter ever was and their mettle will be tested.

Am I left, center, or right?

We have been identified as a center/right nation and I've been a citizen here all of my life.

Does that help?

@calfoxwc said:

It was just a dig at Heck, who demeaned "Hillbilly" as not a slur like the "N" word is.

that's all.

Do you mean hillbilly is just as powerful because people of Appalachian heritage were bought and sold like livestock, when they escaped they were chased down and returned in irons to have their skin lashed off their backs, their women were used as breeders, family members were sold away from their families, they were kept in near unlivable conditions yet forced to work or be whipped?

Well I think it's like Heck said go ahead and use it any way you want.

What's funny to me is people who get upset about people saying "Happy Holiday!" are often the same people who can't understand why a very large group of American patriots, many of which who have fought and died for this country prefer that people don't use that word. It seems to me that people like these Happy Holiday haters just want to be oppositional and find stuff they can bitch about to make themselves happy. Which makes me look kind of stupid myself right now. But that's OK. I can handle it.

@calfoxwc said:

Heck translation:

"The "N" word is very, very important to ban, because a lot of black folks vote for Democrats.

The "H" word - who cares, they probably mostly vote Republican.

Our policy is to protect our base, at all costs..."

Does that imply that we should use the N word whenever possible to appease the conservative voting base?

Great logic.

Funny!

I think they should have the N word banned during February, Black history month. Everybody of every race who feels the urge to use the N word should instead use the word slave. You'd have to admit it might make February one of the most hilarious months of the year.

@calfoxwc said:

The Iraq war WAS NECESSARY.

My liberal friend, who worked in Intel over there, said so. He said the reasons why are classified,

and we won't be privy to knowing why.

No, I couldn't tease him into telling me in person, either.

Unlike a lot of libs, with them saying we should only have been in Afghanistan ...

I say Afghanistan, still being there, is stupid.

My conservative friend told me it was all BS to get oil.

Unlike a lot of "everybody" who thought we had reason to go into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden, who's family was friends with who?

I swear conservatives will climb out on any skinny branch to say something evil about someone not in their party, but they haven't done the slightest bit of that crap with "that fact" or others.

Conservatives are so bent on getting and maintaining power that they don't stop with the BS even when they win elections.

@westside-steve said:

Dog : " To include the "N" word in school curriculum would probably reinforce "liberal" political agendas about the history of African Americans in this country and the real connection that word has to their history.

"

And that is.......

WSS

Seriously?

Gee whiz.

Maybe that the "N" word is so closely tied to the time when blacks were slaves and even the Clemens' story partly illustrates the conditions they lived under.

And maybe that's why the evil PC nazi's have trouble with the "N" word, and wouldn't it just be like our public schools to brainwash our students with reasons why our country is evil instead of the greatest nation on the face of the Earth.

Didn't you know that stuff already though?

@westside-steve said:

Nope.

I just assumed since you were upset about the issue you thought there was a faction out there that had my (or your) best interest at heart.

If so I wonder who that might be and whether you support them.

And as to the isolation bit, you mentioned (correct me if I'm wrong) that we can't afford to take out every foreign government we don't like.

So which ones, if not Iraq, can we afoord to take out and to what benefit?

If the answer is "none" then it sounds isolationist.

WSS

It seems you're attempting to lead me down a road we weren't on.

I started with a comment about Bush being stupid and now you want me to prove how stupid I am. Let me help. Real stupid, but no so stupid to not realize that the Iraq war was and still is a fiasco.