The team doesn't need a guy who will be around for 2-3 years. It needs to build an organization that'll last.

Parcells and stability don't go together. The guy is the Larry Brown of the NFL.

So then Quinn throws 2 deep passes about 20 yards out of bounds. Is he that inaccurate?

I don't understand why this team will not throw the ball downfield. I didn't agree with Tressel buttoning up the offense against Iowa- I thought it would be good for Pryor's development to let him try to win the game with 2 mins left-- but I UNDERSTAND why Tressel decided not to show that trust in Pryor as he would've Troy Smith in 2006. There was a lot more to lose there, namely a trip to the Rose Bowl. However, I simply do NOT UNDERSTAND why a 1-7 team that is going nowhere and is completely inept throwing short yardage passes would not be throwing the ball downfield. There is nothing to lose at all.

Lewis, the "pro's pro," picked a really dumb time to stir up trouble. Why do that NOW? He just showed why he has no business leading this team. It's not like things aren't hard enough with this org, then he starts up. Talk about beating a man when he's down

I firmly believe that Lerner needs to fire Mangini and do it right this time, but please put a lid on it, Lewis.

@mopaji said:

Yeah, it seems like most people back him but expected better than 1-7 which I can understand. Its surprising because all the media and talk radio callers do is bash him. I thought I would get a more accurate reading from this board because outside of the QB debate, people here are all around better and more informed fans. But it does sound like overall, fans are willing to give him a fair shot over the next 2-3 years and that's all I'm asking for, a fair shot. I do understand its hard to find a positive when you look at our record but I really believe he's doing this the right way and we will have to take our lumps in the beginning. I hope Lerner understands that and doesn't panic.

This team needs to build a winning organization. It needs a front office. Is Mangini the one to really build that? I don't think so. His hand-picked GM is gone already. It's pretty clear that he's alienated the team. While there's few players on this team whose performance gives them any business complaining, Lewis certainly included, I just think in general it's bad ot have a situation like this.

I just hope Lerner doesn't screw up the next hire. Frankly, I'm concerned he's going to hand the keys over to Cowher. I'm not convinced whether Cowher's success was in great coaching or just being part of a great system. Tomlin has come right in with barely a hiccup. If Cowher is a bad hire, it could set the team back a decade.

Lerner needs to simply pick a good exec and let that guy pick the coach. No more of this svengali coach nonsense where the coach rules the roost. No more immature dingalings like Savage. I'm sure there were fans who thought that Lerner hiring Mangini the way he did was a good idea (before the GM), but I don't know any. It was so OBVIOUSLY ridiculous. Now Lerner has another guy in Kokonis who he's paying to hang out at the beach.

I say fire him. Yes, the team needs to be rebuilt but imo he isn't the one to do it. He alienates people, trouble follows the guy, and you don't want a guy like this running your team. Sure, he unloaded people he should've unloaded, and maybe he is setting this team up well so it can be rebuilt, but look who they got in these trades. None of the former Jets picked up at the start of the year are imo any better than the people we replaced. The team looks worse than last year, too... There is nothing I've seen from this team that looks the least bit promising. Again, I'm all for blowing it up as they've done, and I was definitely ready for Savage's act to be over, but eventually you have to actually build a winner. Despite his horrid drafting, Jim Paxson did a great job of shedding payroll for the Cavs, but I sure am glad he was canned when he was. I doubt Mangini will be getting any more coaching/GM offers when he's on the street than Paxson has.

However, my main contention is that Mangini should have NOTHING to do with the hiring of the new exec and GM. When that exec and GM comes in, it should be HIS choice on whether Mangini stays or goes.

@ahitz3 said:

Well then, obviously it's Quinn. Every other time when he was asked this question he said right away that he was sticking with DA, no questions. My question is, why does he keep reverting back to this little Retarded game of secrecy?

No kidding, it's beyond stupid.

Hearing that Kokonis wasn't involved in the BE deal, it makes me wonder if EM really got what he could for Edwards. If EM is as overwhelmed as it sounds, and not trusting or relying on any front office help, did he just take a call from his comfort zone (his old team) and get what he could for BE because he decided that he had enough of him, or was he soliciting offers from the rest of the league?

The Tribe got what looks like a bad return for Lee, but at least you know there that the GM and his underlings were talking to other teams like the Dodgers beforehand, so they got what they thought was the best deal.

Bucs Pirate, what are the impressions of Gruden among Bucs fans? Some people in Cleveland like him but I also heard he was kind of a weasel who alienated people in Tampa and wasn't well liked by players or in the org.

Rutigliano, Dieken, Grossi, and Donovan all agreed on their show a few days ago that Kokonis just wasn't qualified and/or ready for the GM job. My guess is that he's both a victim and at fault. He came in and was quickly marginalized by Mangini. He realized that the contract giving him final authority and reality were two different things. Some personalities withdraw when confronted by conflict, particularly if they think it isn't a hill worth dying on. Kokonis realized he didn't have the allies, didn't feel up to the battle (or felt that he couldn't win or come to an understanding), and so he just mentally checked out and awaited his doom. Those of us who've been in very bad work atmospheres can relate. It may be that he wasn't ready for a GM job, particularly in an environment that was the opposite of calm and developmental, and so he quickly sank and drowned in the cesspool that is the current Browns org.

Mangini just seems very hard to work with. While it's easy to call on people to man up and work for the boss, imo alienating those who work with and under you is nothing but bad leadership. EM needs a pink slip.

A LOT of people were taken in by the real estate bubble, which was created by the Federal Reserve. The last stage of this bubble in the early/mid 2000s was massive. There are a lot of real estate developers in Las Vegas and Phoenix, among others, who struck it big and then got deluged by the credit collapse. The Austrian school of economics has been cataloging these boom-bust cycles inspired by central banks for a century, but these aren't the economics people are taught in school. It's easy to point fingers at a businessman like Bernie, but none of the other mainstream economists called the collapse. They were all cheering on the phony low interest rates, just like they're cheering on the artificially low rates we have now. None of these mainstream people expected all the banks to verge on collapse last year (and the bank rescues have only set the stage for a larger collapse down the road).

Only the non-mainstream guys who actually knew what they were talking about (e.g. Peter Schiff) called it, and Bernie probably was too busy working to be paying much attention.

@wongojack said:

Its gotta be Quinn, right? I'm guessing that with the easier opponents Detroit, Jax, KC, and Oakland on the schedule that he will win 2 or 3 games and then everyone will feel much better about him. He'll either get traded after that or become the starter for next season.

If they really want to avoid the 70% of snaps thing, they can just snap it to Cribbs more often.

I think the chances of BQ being on the roster next season are greater than the chances of DA being here. I doubt the Browns will want to pay DA 7M+ next year for his level of production.

They will keep BQ under the 70% of snaps. Anderson has played 5 1/2 games, but the offense has been so dreadful that conceivably BQ could still take 70% of the snaps if the O does better under him in the second half (esp. given that we are playing some very weak teams). I wouldn't be surprised to see DA again in at least one game after the bye because of this. Not sure if it'll be Baltimore. Whoever goes out there against them is a sacrificial lamb. I'd almost rather they give BQ snaps during the bye and throw DA out there against Baltimore, then start Quinn the following week against Detroit. That'll give him a start against a weaker opponent and hopefully build some confidence.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4616312

For the past month, Lerner has independently investigated professional and personal conduct by Kokinis, head coach Eric Mangini and director of football operations Erin O'Brien, who left the organization within the past few days, sources said.

And then this:

Mangini said Monday he had spoken with Lerner and was told his job was safe for now. (my emphasis)

Oh, also this:

Kokinis refused to resign when pressed by owner Randy Lerner, who then persisted in seeking a dismissal "for cause," citing Kokinis for failing to meet the specific standards as dictated by his contract, the sources said. The team's security and legal department were reviewing phone records to build its case against Kokinis, a team source said.

Should be an interesting next couple of weeks, and everyone will be focused on it since there's nothing on the field worth paying attention to....

Donovan said tonight on an STO show- i forget the name- that this Kokinis firing was rumored to have been in the works for several weeks. They were hearing whispers about it for several weeks. It apparently wasn't a rash move after yesterday's game.

@pissedinmedina said:

Everyone says we suck due to the lack of talent on the team. Yet when we get talent like K2 and Edwards, Mangina can't manage the egos. If he thinks he can just draft his way to success, he's wrong. Top talent always comes with egos, dynamic personalities, and they require the head coach to address and manage the issues that tend to follow top players. This fat-ass will always be a ball boy to me. He set this franchise back another 6 years, and no good free agent will even consider Cleveland. Eric Mangina should be working for the government where his dysfunction can be best served. Hey ERIC - Please resign, we beg you. Your player fines, personnel choices (DA worse QB EVER) and lack of general understanding of how to manage a professional football team are painful to watch. You are making me embarrassed to be a Cleveland Brown fan, and I am putting any team support on hold until you are removed from this position. Best of luck selling used cars. Maybe you will get another sucker like Randy Lerner to buy into your bullshit and actually sell a car. Please resign, we can’t not watch you continue destroying this franchise.

I don't think Mangini is the answer. However, BE was and is overrated by many Browns fans (look what we got for him), and nothing more than a career tease. He's not worth his salary and he wasn't going to resign here anyway. That water has passed under the bridge. K2 has bad knees and wanted a new deal, one I think the Browns were right not to give him. They basically got one good year out of him and paid him how much?

One thing Lerner should consider is not giving guys extensions until they have TWO good years. The fact that they extended Savage after one good season is idiotic.

Phil Savage probably won't be thinking about how awful his drafts were.

It's obvious that Bernie knows football, but you don't just bring in a guy and stick him in the all-important GM role. That would be an Al Davis-type move.

I'm not a fan of Kokinis - given how invisible he's been, how could one be? -- but it's just weird that you have a situation with a wannabe svengali as coach who apparently has all the power, and an invisible GM, and the GM gets the axe. The only thing I can think of is that Lerner had enough of Kokinis' invisibility and has decided to bring in a VP Ops and a new GM after the year, then let that person make a decision on Mangini, or like you said... Kokinis did something behind the scenes to merit the firing.

When is the last time a GM was fired in the middle of a season? I'm sure it's happened, but it seems a bit unusual...