Gipper, I understand where you're coming from, but if you're going to take away titles from OSU for reasons such as that, you have to play fair and do it to everyone. The Wiki page I referenced lists several different measuring techniques. . . including all recognized titles, Championship claims by schools, College Football Data Warehouse Natl. Champs, and National Poll championships, and none of them seem to match the list you showed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Division...laims_by_school

Are you sure of the accuracy of this list? Because the NCAA recognizes 7 national championships for Ohio State.

1942 Paul Brown AP 9-1 6-1 -

1954 Woody Hayes FWAA, UPI, AP 10-0 7-0 Won Rose Bowl

1957 Woody Hayes FWAA, UPI 9-1 6-1 Won Rose Bowl

1961 Woody Hayes NFF, FWAA 8-0-1 6-0 -

1968 Woody Hayes AP, UPI FWAA 10-0 7-0 Won Rose Bowl

1970 Woody Hayes NFF 9-1 7-0 Lost Rose Bowl

2002 Jim Tressel BCS, AP, USA Today/ESPN 14-0 8-0 Won Fiesta Bowl

Not sure about other schools.

I'd argue that the weather also plays a big part in those as well. . . last night's game conditions were brutal!

@kosar_for_president said:

Really? I am glad we have you here to pull us through these tough times. I would of never known without you. I envy your hipness and wealth of knowledge. Thank you.

p.s. Have you ever noticed the N and M are right next to each other on the keyboard?

Can't handle some one correcting your mistakes, can you? So who is Adam Sanberg? Did Adam Sandler and Andy Samberg have a love-child?

@kosar_for_president said:

No it's supposed to spoof (sort of) them. It's Adam Sanberg. Dudes funny. Not sure about the girl. Just commenting that I would jiz in my pants if Parcells came here (lol).

Sandberg's funniest video BY FAR.

Just a correction. . . it's Andy Samberg, a star & writer from SNL. The guy 'rapping' with him is a member of his band, Lonely Island. This song is one of many funny 'spoof' or comedy songs from their album "Incredibad."

Also to note, in that video, the guy in the back of the grocery store mopping the floor is Justin Timberlake.

And, in the second video someone posted "Dick In A Box" that is also Justin Timberlake singing with Andy Samberg.

Google or Youtube Andy Samberg, or Lonely Island (or on Hulu.com). There are several more good videos out there.

@the-gipper said:

Here are this weeks Survey questions, please give your answers:

1. Whose butt would you rather see dropkicked from this years playoffs, The Steelers or Ravens?

***I'm going to say Ravens. Every win they get feels like a win we should have had, and burns with the heat of a thousand suns in my heart. (What?)

2. Describe your Thanksgiving dinner and whether you had anything out of the ordinary to eat.

***There was the pie that the cook forgot to put the sugar in, that was a bit out of the ordinary. Otherwise pretty normal.

3. What amount of money do you think you will spend on Christmas gifts (Hannukah gifts?) this year?

***Probably in the $650 - $750 range.

4. Who do you think would win a game between the Ohio State Buckeyes and the Cincinnati Bearcats this year?

***Hard to say, but I really think Cincinnati hasn't seen a defense like OSU. . . so I'm going with Ohio State.

5. OK, here is the question for the ages, appropriate for the season: Do YOU believe in Santa Claus?

***From a elementary standpoint, I've never received a gift that couldn't be traced back to someone specifically that gave it to me. . . so in that regard, no. But do I believe in "Santa Claus" and how he represents the spirit of Christmas? Sure.

The real question is why are you dating a steeler fan!?!?!?!?!

(From the guy who married a Michigan fan. . . she's from Michigan, so it kinda justifies it)

@clevelandfanforlife said:

i've said this before: claussen isn't entering the draft this year. notre dame is the highest in the ncaa for graduation at 100% for its white playerss. it is around 90% for its black players. just for a comparison: ohio state's is the lowest with around 40% of a graduation rate among football players. way to go jimmy t.

Nice shot at OSU, but did you know some of the teams that fall below Ohio State? How about Michigan State, Texas, Georgia, Oklahoma. . . looks like a good percentage of LARGE State schools to me. . . and a bunch of big programs that send players directly to the NFL, which does affect the numbers.

On top of that, I believe the latest research on this data came out in the end of 2008, and was based on data from 1998 - 2001, even before Tressel's time, and rumor is it has gotten better since he arrived.

Just sayin.

But regarding the topic at hand, Tebow won't be a good NFL QB. Urban Meyer has a TERRIBLE track record of preparing QBs for the NFL. He has developed some STELLAR performances out of QBs at the college level in his systems (Josh Harris, Omar Jacobs, Alex Smith, and now Tebow. . . ) but none of them have done ANYTHING in the NFL. So, unfortunately, odds are against him.

ATENEARS, that was an excellent response. Thank you. And I do see improvement in the D, and some things I've been waiting for for years. Accepting the 'rebuilding' process is certainly a good thing to do. The Offensive struggles make it difficult to focus on the rest of the parts that are doing better / improving. But I have been noticing the change in the Defense, and the dominance of our Special Teams.

As an aside, I still really like Wimbley, and I'm excited to see development and production out of him after a few down years.

Just wanted to add that I'm not feeling any more optimistic this week vs last week.

And before someone challenges my opionion, I am perfectly capable of maintaining two separate opinions. #1: I'm very happy to add a game to the Win column. #2: I'm not feeling too good about adding more wins after the performance in Buffalo.

With their mistakes, lack of discipline, QB troubles, and coach being on the hot seat, Buffalo is arguably one of the worst teams in the league right now. And the Browns mustered up 6 points?

Definately not helping my outlook for the year. I'll keep trying to find that silver lining!!!

I've lived through it, but reading through it still makes me sit back and weep in disgust at how 'the most important position on the team' can be SO mishandled by EVERY SINGLE COACH we've had since 99, INCLUDING the current one.

Wow, just wow.

@floridabrownsfan said:

For someone who says they were optimistic, you sure don't show it. I dunno if you know this or not, but the NFL is a league where teams can go from shit to contenders in one season. Now I'm not saying that the Bengals are for real, but just because they sucked in the past doesn't mean that's where their future lies. I mean just last season, we saw the Miami Dolphins, who went 1-15 in the previous season, go on to have a 11-5 record and a playoff berth. This is a rapidly changing league where teams rise and fall every year. So just because we lost to the Bengals doesn't mean we should lose all hope for the season. If anything, we should be optimistic that we kept it a close game. It also shows us that maybe we have more talent than everyone thinks.

That's the point I'm getting at. . . I'm normally very optimistic, in the preseason, and even after losses as the week goes on. But the last loss doesn't sit well with me, and the optimism is harder to come by right now for me.

But I completely agree, the Bengals are improved, on both sides of the ball. Palmer is a good QB, and he's leading the team to success. But it still hurts to see the Browns lose ground to them.

Goes back to seeing all of those preseason 'rankings' where the Browns were at or near the bottom, and most everyone here said "how can all of those teams be better than the Browns after all of the improvements there have been on this team / coaching staff. . . " And here we are 4 weeks into the season and the grim reality may be setting in. . .

I wouldn't be here if I didn't care and didn't love the Browns. Just saying the optimisim is not as strong as it once was.

Formerly Stone said:

I don't get this mind set? The BENGALS and the BROWNS are virtually the same team. Long term history has the Browns a couple percentage points ahead of the Bengals and recent history has the Bengals well ahead of the Browns so how is it that you would be embarrassed by losing to them?

I'm coming from the perspective of the preseason optimisim. . . we had a coaching change (removing a bad coach, and hiring an 'improvement'), eliminated some unproductive and dead weight, brought in a lot of solid veterans, etc. etc. etc. Had the same record as the Bengals last year (basically), and they lost their best receiver, and didn't make any other major changes really, outside of the draft.

Just coming into the season some of these games SHOULD be wins. . . Cincinnati, Denver, Detroit, KC, Oakland. Especially at home.

But more than anything, it's wondering if that was the best effort the team had? Did the best effort result in losing in OT in a game that (from a preseason point of view) should have been a win?

Maybe it's just me coming to the sad realization that with all of these offseason 'improvements', the Browns have lost ground to the Bengals. THE BENGALS! God, I hope the Browns beat the Lions!!! If not, that might force me into a deep state of CSD (Cleveland Sports Depression).

I recall someone recently posting about their moods / feelings on the Browns by day as the week goes on, and how the pain and pessimism turns to optimism and excitement as the week goes on. While I agree that typically happens, for some reason it's not doing it for me this week. I know it's Tuesday, but it usually doesn't take me that long.

A lot of people are pulling positives from this close loss vs. the Bengals. . . but I've been looking at it differently. Masters made a few excellent points in a post earlier, which somewhat describes how I feel right now.

In the loss against the Bengals. . .

* The Browns won the TOP battle

* They forced 2 turnovers

* Blocked a FG and an XP, thanks Shaun Rogers

* Started SEVERAL drives with amazing field position. . .

* . . . thanks to a stellar game from Cribbs.

* Harrison played a great game (Finally, we've been asking to see this forever)

* MoMass proved he may be a legit NFL WR

* Brodney Pool had arguably his best game as a Brown

* The offense opened up the playbook to incorporate Screens, bootlegs/roll-outs, flea-flicker, etc. to keep the D guessing

. . . all of this and the Browns STILL lost to the FREAKING BENGALS!!!! Look, the Bengals are playing better this year than last year, but they are still NOT GOOD! (They're the Bengals, after all) In the thread about 'penciling in wins' in the preseason this Bengals game was one that should have been circled in a permanent marker (To borrow from someone else's comment).

Mangini moved some players, demoted a few people, promoted a few, fired the team up, heck, even played Furrey on Defense (Rumor I heard, didn't see it. . . ), gave a big pep-talk, and got good effort out of the team, and they still lost to the BENGALS! Masters commented that this often is more deflating, playing what may be their best and still losing to a beatable team.

This is the pessimism in me crying out right now. Still a bunch of question marks. Are the Bengals as bad as they typically are, or are they actually a good team this year? Was the effort we saw from the Browns the best they've got, or are they just getting warmed up?

Don't worry, I'm not going anywhere, I've been around since I can first remember watching the Browns as a kid with my parents. . . I'm just frustrated. Venting a little. Maybe the optimism will start brewing soon.

GO BROWNS!

I just want to add that I was also at the game, and I certainly didn't get the warm-fuzzy about DA's game as others did. He certainly played 'decent' by DA standards, and 'better' by the standards Quinn set over the past few games, but there was a lot left on the field in this game as well because of DA's inaccuracy.

That red-zone interception was not miscommunication, it was simply a BAD throw. He was looking right at Heiden and didn't even see the DB coming at him from the outside. Threw it low and behind Heiden, and we had the result. If Heiden was really supposed to curl that around, then it still would have been picked off, because there was a DB right behind him, on his right hip.

The throw where he led MoMass out of bounds and the "TD-ruled down at the 1" throw were both beautiful throws and catches.

It became VERY clear to me in this game that one of the biggest issues in the passing attack was that nobody was getting open in the previous games. Cribbs couldn't get open, so they put him back on special teams. Edwards isn't getting open, because he's being double-teamed all the time. By putting MoMass in there, there's finally now a player getting open, demanding more attention, and spreading out the defense. The only players that seemed to be getting open in the past were the 'dump-off' players, the RBs, TEs, and sometimes Furrey.

Dogs are good.

I've got a 7 yr old Mutt named Abbe that was the offspring of a pound rescue. . . my friend rescued a dog from a pound, and 5 puppies came with her about 9 weeks later. (She literally got knocked up on her way out the door!). And I'll argue that she may have been one of the cutest puppies I've ever seen. We have no idea her exact breed-mix, but most think she's a shepherd / sheltie / golden mix of some kind. She's about 40 Lbs, lean, and has a shepherd style body.

Best personality you'll ever find. Very friendly, very playful, energetic, great around kids, and most other dogs (She gets annoyed when dogs are constantly up in her grill). Incredibly soft fur. . . couldn't ask for a better dog.

In the interest of space, here are some links for more great pics of the dog. . .

Abbe Pic 1

Abbe Pic 2

Abbe Pic 3

Abbe Pic 4

I like to call it CSD, which stands for Cleveland Sports Depression. I was at my worst a week or so back when. . .

A: I went to a weeknight Indians Game, and the size of the crowd and the pitifulness of the team was painful to look at

B: News about Delonte West and his Desperado incident came out

Sandwiched by a couple of enbarassing Browns losses

That's when I realized that my CSD had become a real problem. I still haven't found a treatment for it, however eliminating Eric Wedge helped a very little bit.

I also realized around this time that the two most exciting events in Cleveland sports are:

A: The NFL draft and other drafts. . . because we haven't yet figured out that these new Cleveland players will soon suck.

and

B: When a bad coach gets fired. . . because the suspense of who our next sucky coach will be is riveting!

I sent a message to the creator telling him to clarify "sell to someone committed to building a winner in CLEVELAND"

I can't imagine it would possibly happen this quickly, it would make Lerner look like a complete and total idiot. (?)

May just be a lot of the 'sources' (the ones that hate him) starting to CREATE the illusion of a 'hot seat' to put pressure on the organization.

@qbguru said:

Does Lummy or anybody know DAs QB rating today?

D. Anderson 11/19 92 4.8 0 3 30.9

B. Quinn 6/8 34 4.3 0 1 42.7

Stellar. Both of them.