I've been thinking about this for awhile. I think Mangini is coming back next season and I think that has been the decision for a long time.

Kokinis supposedly wasn't happy he didn't have the control he was supposed to have. So he's gone. And Mangini is still here.

If Mangini was going to be fired I think it would have happened all ready. 1-8...... 1-9..... 1-10....

Any of those would have been an opportunity to get rid of Mangini if that is what Lerner was thinking. But he didn't. He got rid of Kokinis.

At 1-10, you're watching the players on the field and evaluating each position. Who are you going to keep next year? Who's getting cut? What position do you want to address in the 2nd round of the draft next season? Letting Mangini go then would have told the team, besides Randy screwed up, we're cutting our losses and starting fresh. Ryan would have been interim coach maybe, and everyone including coaches would be "interviewing" every week for a job next season. The fact Mangini stayed tells me he's running the show beyond 2009.

Mangini must have Lerner convinced on his game plan. Randy's tired of the revolving door too. We may not have expected 1-11 as fans, but we didn't expect playoffs either.

I have taken the last several weeks off from watching the board for my sanity's sake (and yours). Yes, I'm frustrated, but no more than I was at 1-4 or 1-5. To watch the board would only mean at some point I would give in to the urge to piss into the wind myself and in the end, all Ive accomplished was to get wet. At 1-5, I have to accept this team for what it is this year and I'm not about to hold out hope that it's going to change this season. I can't expect a different result until the season is over and we go through another free agency and draft.

Lerner knows it's going to take more than one year to turn this around. He expected it to get worse before it got better. But whatever it is he and Mangini talk about behind closed doors, Lerner is liking it. He knows if he fires Mangini and brings in another guy he's yet another year away from continuity. We could also go round and round on who wants this job, but I think it's irrelevant. I don't think it's available. I'm not 100% sure GM is available.

If we go 2-14 I still expect Mangini to be here next year. I think that was the plan before Kokinis was removed. I don't know how great a coach he'll be, I'm nowhere near that smart. I'm just telling you I think he's our coach in 2010. For sure.

running out the door for work. search for nfl lockout and you'll find a plethora of articles on the possibility.

I love watching millionaires who don't spend their money wisely squirm!

The players need to be be prepared. Whining won't get it done. If they're patient, the blame will be cast own team owners because they are the ones who voted out of the final year of the CBA. If they lock the players out, which may happen, once again it's on the owners.

With the soap opera the Browns have become, I have to say some sadistic side of me is really ok with watching the NFL (players and owners) chew on their own leg to try and get out of this trap they've created.

funny. What I think Mo was trying to say in his calm down post was we need to give it time. We don't know exactly what we have until it plays out. Firing your GM halfway through a season brings us back to square one again.

Whatever Kokinis had planned for next year's draft, forget it. Someone else is making the plans now. Good or bad? Dunno. Have to wait and see. But that's what we were doing all ready with Kokinis.

Waiting for the ripple effect now. What does this mean for Mangini? his staff? Player mentality? Not that it was all that good to begin with.

Wonder how many times Lerner hits the restart button on his PS3 when playing Madden? After the first season in owner mode? Or before the season is complete?

@pumpkin-eater said:

Sometimes personal bankruptcy is the SMART decision to make. I'm not gong to hold that against Bernie. Seriously, bankruptcy is a guaranteed right for US citizens. It is the creidt empire that has attached the bad stigma to it.

Walt Disney filed.

Ulysess S. Grant was a partjer in a financial firm that went bankrupt.

Milton S. Hershey filed.

Abraham Lincoln filed.

William McKinley cosigned for a loan for a friend who then went bankrupt. He was in debt 130 grand.

Thomas Paine of Common Sense fame went bankrupt.

Mark Twain filed.

Of Course Donald Trump

P.T. Barnum

Henry John Heinz

Henry Ford

.....glenby73 filed. Not sure how you missed that on your list of well known public figures

All business debt I swear. 'Course, If I wasn't blowing my money on Browns tickets, maybe things would have been different!

Part of Bernie's problem is he has a bleeding heart. The man can't say no to anyone he knows. Does this mean I think he's the man for the job or not, (insert shoulder shrug)?

1.) I don't have any confidence in any move Lerner makes at this point short of selling the team.

2.) Unless Lerner is going to give me a job or Bernie's going to give me a loan, I've all ready spent more time typing this post than I spend thinking about Lerner and his next move.

I don't have the answers unfortunately. My job is to GET A JOB so I can continue to buy tickets and tiny $6.75 beers so the Browns can continue to give it to needy players and their children.

I can only hope next year's version of the Browns give me a better game to watch on DVR when I get home from the stadium!!

@osu-kid said:

Oh I remember that horrid moment on Christmas eve a few years ago when the Steeler fans were waving all those towels during anoter pitiful performance from the Browns there was no booing them down. I am not looking forward to seeing what the stadium may look like in a few weeks. I have a sick feeling it will start to look like old Riverfront stadium with a lot of black and gold in there.

This is why I drink at the game. Alcohol makes me happy and when I'm surrounded by Steeler fans, I need something.

That game definitely sucked. No question. But I took it all. It actually helped keep me warm. Someday, when the tables are turned, we can release all that frustration. I just think we're going to have to wait a little longer!

Finally made it to a Browns game this year. Unlike the last 3 years, I don't have the money to flush on tickets so I'm only attending 3 games this year.

I don't remember much of the game, which was pre-planned and well executed!

Here's what I do remember...

Getting to the port parking lot on the west end of the stadium at 9:45 and finding it practically vacant. Nice thing is we got to park up front. Bad thing is it showed me just how many people either weren't coming, or didn't care to tailgate before the game.... that is until all the vehicles with Wisconsin plates started arriving (and one Detroit fan).

Parking there has gone up from $20 to $25

I'm actually better at cornhole after 3 beers.

Eating onions that fell on the pavement are still ok to put on your burger as long as you grill 'em first.

The more you drink the longer the line is at the two porta-potty's.

I'm not so good at cornhole after 6 or 7 beers.

I saw so many cheeseheads in the stadium I am still constipated.

They were in the row in front of me. To my left. To my right. The one's on my right bought their tix on ebay for $30 each ($40 seats).

The beers in the stadium look smaller this year.

Browns fans started leaving in the middle of the third quarter.

The only time there was a line for the pisser was at halftime. The other 6 times I visited the facilities it was smooooooth sailing!

If you fold your ticket in half the SECOND person to mark your ticket for smoking may not see the FIRST mark on your ticket. Therefore, you can stay in the stadium instead of getting booted. That's cool cuz then I can use the bathroom in the stadium where there is no line, versus the porta-potty in the parking lot that was seriously backed up.

We were the only people on the steps leading to the exit after the game. Normally it looks like a cattle drive. But I'm not complaining. It got me to the porta potty sooner.

My buddy told me what the score of the game was. I have yet to watch the tape to witness it for myself.

the moral of the story is this... (long pause as I try and determine the moral of the story..... and glance at the title of this thread because I don't remember what it was about....... oh yeah...... k, here goes.....)

the moral of the story is this... I don't know if Mangini is the guy. I know Romeo wasn't.

The fact a beat writer is calling for the coaches head before we even play half a season, his first season, says a lot. Our problems go deeper than Mangini. EM didn't hire himself. Since our return this franchise is worked hard to develop a legacy of underachieving. We are the poster child for how not to do things. The stigma and odor that surrounds us is pungent enough nobody wants to get close.

DA or BQ. I don't think either one is the first choice of EM. But he looked at the current situation and decided he had to ride it out for now. I have to believe we shopped 'em. It didn't work out. End of story.

I was done with Romeo after two years. Took two more before he was fired. I'm not done with EM. Am I super excited about how he was hired? No. Am I super excited about how things are looking right now? No. But damn, give a man a chance. If I was the coach of this team I might just go all Butch Davis on their ass. See ya!

Would a different coach get a few more wins out of this group, I don't know. But whoever is the coach isn't going to turn it around in one year barring some type of miracle. And I don't want some fluke. Look what the 10-6 fluke has brought us. Give me progress. Slow, steady progress. I know, .....this isn't progress. But you can't expect to see things change in the middle of a season. This is our team. This is who we have for the rest of the year. Like Coach Green says, "They are who we thought they were." A 6-10 team at best and even that looks like it was overly optimistic.

We didn't expect to make the playoffs this year. We are always optimistic and full of hope but even we weren't dumb enough to predict playoffs.

I know, I too would settle for competitive right now. But maybe we're still fooling ourselves. Maybe we're arguing over whether the glass is half full or half empty and it's actually 3/4 empty, or a 1/4 full for you always positive types! Maybe we're just too close to see it.

What's interesting to me about this is she came OUT ON THE AIR and said this.

I don't know how credible she is as a witness, or if it happened exactly as she said, but I can't think of any other time someone came on the air and spilled something like this. I'm sure they were talking with their lawyers before they let her say this stuff. I know it's dangerous to take one persons word for it, but if somebody backs up her story...... If BE isn't charged with anything, he will be a lucky man.

Shame. BE had every opportunity to step up and be a leader.

@deadwombat said:

Wombat, this is the best thing BE ever did for us.

@glenby73 said:

this just in off the ticker..........

Apparently BE was rocking out to Black Eyed Peas "I got a feeling" on the way to the club Sunday night!!!!

Did this pop up on it's own or did somebody post the video for me? if so , thnx!!

this just in off the ticker..........

Apparently BE was rocking out to Black Eyed Peas "I got a feeling" on the way to the club Sunday night!!!!

Nothing open downfield. DA will be benched at halftime for Quinn!

@bmer916 said:

Adam_Schefter The 3rd-round pick the Jets gave up to Cleveland could turn into second-round pick if Edwards catches a certain number of passes this yr

icing on the cake. THAT could be the best thing BE ever did for Cleveland.... make catches for the Jets!!!!

@tobalaz said:

Add in Denver would be trading Cutler for Orton and Andre Davis would be a key on defense for them to be 4-0 right now and I'd say what the f%ck were you smoking!

Add in even with a new coach, we're still farting around with our own Abbott n' Costello routine, "Whose on First?" under center?

Sabrina on the rizzo show right now saying BE was basically the instigator at the club.

BE was there with his agent. At closing, outside....

BE inserted himself into a conversation that did not include him, nor was it about him.

He started telling Givens he was nothing without LBJ, etc.

Givens said screw you, etc.

BE reached over somebody in order to punch Givens.

All allegedly obviously.....

Sabrina admits she may have missed something, or not seen exactly what happened...

Says, BE connected. Givens did not swing back. Police quickly separated the group. Apparently they know to be at the club at closing just in case.

In the club, before the incident, she spoke with BE.... claims while talking about the team, BE was upset. Said he had no room for improvement. The coaching staff needed to be re-evaluated. Complained about only getting 4 balls thrown his way....

Sabrina told him if he had four balls thrown his way he should catch all four and maybe he would get a fifth!!!! lol!!!

Claims BE said he was a wideout, they need to learn to get him the ball. He's not diving for the ball.

Basically blames everyone else.

Kinda goes along with what I just posted about his state of mind.

@brownindian said:

Mangini has taken heat for a lot of things but this is not something he should be blamed for. How should Mangini know how BE behaves ? He has nvr worked with him. Also why should Mangini care if BE wants to model or party ? BE did not get into fights like this in the bar till yesterday. Who knows if BE did not get into the fight then maybe he might not have been traded at all .... One cant blame Mangini for things he did not know esp when he is taking over new a team with little offensive talent and more rookies that need training.

There's only one person to blame for this and that's BE. What the hell was he thinking? He could throw a punch and he's looking at an unsportsmanlike conduct? 15 yds, worst case scenario?

Take it from someone who's been there.... when you have a bad attitude that is quickly morphing into an "I don't give a $h*t" attitude..... trouble is just around the corner.

When you are looking for trouble, you're going to find it. trust me!

BE didn't care. We are a bad team that is working hard to build. This season is a wash. BE was simply doing his time. He knew he was not going to be here next year. The man is human. He had no motivation.

Contract year.... I don't think he cared. I think he felt his name alone was enough to get him the contract he wanted. He wouldn't be held accountable for poor numbers this season, not with a qb controversy, not with playing on a team lacking other receivers, not on a team with a mediocre running game.

BE had convinced himself all he had to do was bide his time. Didn't matter what he did on the field. That morphed into it didn't matter what he did off the field.

It's a sad story, truly. Tons of talent and ability. Wrong outlook. Personally, I'm glad it's over.

I'm reminded of the SI cover with Albert Belle on the cover. Simply said ......"TICK, TICK, TICK"

I can see the same cover with BE on the cover.

Hopefully for him.... this is the worst problem he makes for himself. I don't wish ill on the man. I just won't be surprised if 10 years from now we're reminiscing about "BE, the bust."

@glenby73 said:

Without much thought..... too early anyway... yes that's the excuse I'm going with....

My gut reaction.......

Good.

1) Report has been filed, pictures taken, think there were witnesses(? feel free to deny or confirm). Sounds to me like there is enough to at least move forward with criminal charges. Again, speculation on my part, admitted.

2) NFL is doing their own investigation. Even if he doesn't face criminal charges, he probably broke some NFL rule and you know Goodell isn't going to let that slide. If it shakes out to be true, he did hit the guy, he will face a multiple game suspension.

3) He's not sticking around after this season anyway. I think Mangini would have been happy to keep him and that's why he wasn't traded earlier. He's one of the few guys with talent on this team! When he decides to use it. but this, this put it over the top. Mangini had an out and he took it. He got something for what would have been nothing in the offseason. Plus he woudln't be on the field for several games this year anyway.

I could be wrong, but without any concrete info, this is my initial reaction.

Just hope we got a little something for him but not holding my breath.

4) shows Mangini is still ruling with the iron fist. 4 games in, the man's still got it! Just in case anybody forgot, or thought he was getting soft in his looooooong head coaching career.

5) BE is bound to confuse his playbook with a movie script anyway. Glad he won't be here when he does it.

@jadbf said:

??? we didn't get a first and a 3rd....

Ive heard at best its 2 seconds. one next year one the year after. or a 3rd and a 5th which sounds more likely.

I think 2 seconds would have been a huge coup for Mangini. If it's the 3rd and 5th, that makes it about an even trade.

We got something for a guy that was walking end of the season

We got something for a guy that will be sitting on his ASS when Roger drops the hammer!

Given all the circumstances, I think we did better than even.

FYI.... rizzo still saying their going to talk about the night at the club with Sabrina. Hasn't happened yet.

Mary Kay ladies and gentlemen!!!! (enter applause here)

Doing her best to tell us what we all ready know!

Well, anyone who wants out of Cleveland knows how to do it now.

Punch one of LBJ's boys!

LBJ, the REAL GM of the Browns calling the shots.

This just in.. Grady Sizemore spreading rumors about Dru Joyce on Twitter!!!!