In your guys opinion,which scenario would have more ramifications on at least in the 1st half of the season?
The Browns losing to the Vikings or beating the Vikings?
I think beating a NFC power could give the Browns a octane boost to start the season....much much needed optimism could kick start a surprising start.
Its been awhile since the Browns won a season opener.....was it the Ravens when Garcia was QB?
Levi Jones is as classy a football player as you'll find. For years he was perinal shutdown LT for the Bengals......He gave Dwight Freeney all he could handle. Again a very tough as nails LT who played in 2003 down the strech after getting arthoscopic knee surgury 6 days before.
The thing with Levi is,his knees cannot hold up to a 16 game season.
I watched Trent Cole have his way with him last year.......and Levi Jones took himself out of the game knowing Cole was the better man that day.
Levi used to be a elite LT. Now he is just servicable.
I think he is going to want to command one last huge payday before he walks away from the game.
Right now I think he'd be a huge upgrade over Ryan Tucker who to me was always overated.
But he's not worth the big $$$$$$
1. Lions M.Stafford
2. Rams E.Monroe
3. Chiefs A.Curry
4. Seahawks M.Sanchez
5. Browns B.J Raji
6.Bengals B.Orakpo
7. Raiders M.Crabtree
8. Jags J.Maclin
9. Packers A.Smith
10. 49ers M.Oher
I get it. You want to write off everyone we drafted that hasn't performed yet. If they aren't stars after a year or two, they are a waste of pick. That's why GB is so upset that they drafted Rodgers, why Tony Romo is a bust, why the Giants gave up on Eli after a few mediocre seasons, why James Harrison never made it off the Steeler's practice squad, why Michael Turner is a career backup, why the Falcons regret drafting Roddy White (his first season was weak), Leonard Davis is a bust, Thomas Jones will never rush for 1000, etc.Oh, wait. None of that is true. In fact, it seems like it's perfectly normal for players to take a few years to prove their value. Yes, there are exceptions (the Dolphins aren't one. their QB and best defensive player came in through FA), but that doesnt disprove the rule. The argument has become whether or not we should wait a few years to make strong statements about the quality of a draft class. You don't think we should. I'm going to stand over here with 99% of football fans, commentators, GMs, coaches, etc and say you're wrong. And I'll save you some time by letting you know now that another 500 words isn't going to change my mind.
Tom Tupa,the truth of the matter is,most of the players the Browns have drafted over the years never develop into difference makers or game changers. And those 2 reasons can stem from a number of things....character, poor position coaches, or for the fact they aren't as good as advertised.
Those players you brought up are poor examples to prove your point.
The Browns very rarely had established vets to mentor young players in order for them to ascend to the next level.
James Harrison benefits from playing under one of the best defensives minds in our era,Dick LeBeau. Plus I believe he was able to play behind Joey Porter. Harrison also is a student of the game.
Kamerion Wimbley is going to play for his 3 DC in 4 years.
Wimbley came in drafted in the 1st RD.....he was guarenteed to start right away. Wimbley hasn't progressed. He's regressed......For a guy drafted to bring heat from the edge,he's invisable.
A guy like Wimbley is projected to give results right away,not 4 years down the road.
Wimbley has no upper body strength and his legs are pixel sticks.
A 1,000 yards is no longer a benchmark.....any RB that averages 66 yards a game,gets a 1,000 yards.
With careful consideration,what current vets could get released in Browns when the training camp hits?
Keep this in mind,if the Browns draft a RB in RD 2......you just never know about Jamal Lewis's status.
I know the Browns need a vet to be a mentor to the rooks,but there is always a RB in the NFL that ends up being a "surprise" release.
I'm not defending Butch Davis's drafts.What Iam doing is showing you how bad Phil Savage's drafts were. Savage missed on so much in his tenure, the only 2 players that Kokinis said was untouchable was Joe Thomas and D'Qwell Jackson.
2 players in 4 years.
As far as Shaun Rogers goes,I never said he was average.Go back and reread my posts. I do know this,whether as a Lion or Brown,he's never been a true difference maker on a defense.
He's a talent.yes.But take him off the Browns defense,its still a pathethic defense.
Watch this year when the Browns start out 0-3,0-4 and see how unmotivated he becomes.Just like how he was in Detroit.
Last time I checked Ozzie Newsome got over Phil Savage on Draft Day a couple years ago.
You pretty much lost most people with "Butch for all his shortcomings drafted better.". Which Butch were you watching on draft day?
The only draft pick that Phil Savage hit on was Joe Thomas. But then again it didn't take a draft guru to figure out the drafting of Joe Thomas. Anybody with a working knowledge of football and concepts could have drafted JT.
Phil's 2005 draft or lack of has set the Browns back. NFL'ers should be hitting their prime by year 4 in the league. Antonio Perkins was a bust at CB..too undersized. Brodney Pool is adequete at best.
Charlie Frye never had any business being in the NFL in the 1st place.
Braylon Edwards has never been consistant enough to justify his draft position.
Phil's selections later on have flopped.Kamerion Wimply hasn't graduated pass his one pass rush move.
Jerome Harrison still can't pick up a blitz.
Eric Wright and Brandon McDonald have flashed and could benefit from a pass rush.
D'Qwell Jackson is tackling machine,but they are usually 6 yards downfield.
Butch Davis had his share of draft blunders. Gerard Warren,Quincy Morgan,Andra Davis.
But he hit on Ryan Pontibriand(sp). Kellen Winslow 2 if he could have stayed healthy could have been really special. But Tampa thought enough of him to pay him huge $$$.
Sean Jones before his injuries,was starting to be the playmaker at saftey.
Even Jeff Faine has proved to be a quality center...he's a heck of a lot stronger and better than Hank Fraley.
Anthony Henry has been productive for a mid RD pick.
Butch Davis got the Browns to the playoffs. Phil Savage.....Joe Thomas and Eric Wright.......thats his positive contribution to the current Browns. oh yeah and overpaying for average FA's.
Phil Savage will never be a GM in the NFL again. He set this franchise back farther than Butch Davis did. Butch for all his shortcomings drafted better. Phil Savage comes and blows everything up in 2005.
Savage over valued himself and got worked on draft day by other teams..
If you go over to Dawgtalkers.net some still think Phil Savage did a good job with the Browns.
low rise high reward move for the Bengals. You can't have too many huge bodies when you play in the AFC North. Tank Johnson by all accounts has turned his life around. Its a one year deal,so if there is a chance that Johnson gets out of line,he'll be released.
Its funny how 2 years ago all the national pundits were applauding how it was a great move by the Jerry Jones and Cowboys to bring Tank in.Now you if listen to Micheal Smith of ESPN,its a negative move.
