@mld-woody said:

I remember him being solid before he got hurt

It wasn't as much of him being solid as it was him being on the right end of Peyton Manning passes. If he stayed healthy on the PAts he might look good also w Brady throwing him open.

No way. This dude cant stay healthy. I don't care if he was born in Cleveland Browns stadium and was the love child of Bernie kosars daugter, and Michael Dean Perry. He is still a bum.

I was under the impression that RFA's needed to be signed before the draft because we would have had to lose that current years first rounder. I didn't think we could lose a future first. If he were willing to sign at a good figure no doubt I would go after him.

I don't know how much I would like to see division totally realigned even if they make sense geographically. I just don't know if it would be the best thing to break up some of those great rivalries that have around for 20 or 30 or 40 or even 50 years.

Like Cowboys vs all 3 other NFC East teams. Those rivals are strong because of there history on the field and battles for the division since the 70s. Why try and force a Cowboys rival with a terrible new expansion team with no history and will mostly likely be a terrible team like expansion teams have been in recent memory. Even if there is a "natural" geographic rival it doesn't really mean anything if the teams are playing meaningful games against each other. And even if they play meaningful games ... it takes a few years of meaningful game for the rival to really start getting strong. Of if not meaningful games atleast some sort of unique history that makes the franchise dislike each other (I.E. Ravens/Browns Old vs new)

You are also breaking up Jets/Phins which is a big rival along with the other good rivals in the AFC East. Just seems like you are almost startiing from stratch.

Also if you add 4 more teams and 2 more games ... the talent is going to become very saturated. The NFL would certainly expand the roster. Lets say they expand from a 53 man to a 60 man (which might even be conservative) and from 32 to 36 teams. You are going to have 464 more players in the NFL that shouldn't be. You are going to have a lot less talented football players on the field. All that expansion is going to ultimately lead to putting a crappy product on the field (maybe not crappy but not as good)

Endymion said:

I'm not discussing the definition of Retard, but unfortunately Gipper you are incorrect as to the true definition of Troll. Used as a [noun], a "TROLL" has one of the following definitions to which you can look up in any number of dictionaries.

1. very ugly creature in old Scandinavian stories that lives in a cave and is either very small or very tall.

2. ugly or unpleasant person

3. (in computing) showing disapproval to someone who deliberately sends a rude or annoying message to a discussion group on the Internet

Ergo, the mere act of posting on a rival board does not make one a troll. However, you may find one's messages to be "rude" or "annoying" and as such you can show that person disapproval by labeling him as a troll.

I would have to agree with this as well.

I actually don't think Homotron is a troll. I don't ever remember a moment when Homo has just randomly attacked the Browns or disrespected someone on the board for NO reason. I will however say he will stick up for his team.himself as would any Browns fan or person on a Steelers board (or wherever really) The only thing I never got was why he is on a Browns board as a Steeler fan, but he has said numerous times he likes reading the boards of all the division rivals so atleast he keeps consistent. As much as I hate the Steelers and some of there actual trolls Homotron has never rubbed me the wrong way (like that garafleets clown or whatever his name is)

Just my opinion while I am bored.

Also Homotron take Gipper w a grain a salt. He is old and apparently doesn't realize the interweb has its own culture/terminology. He lost me when he agreed with the rock and roll HOF not inducting KISS and Rush.

He is a ginger.

Zombo has been calling him the Ginger Ninja since day 1.

@miktoxic said:

ok, so i'm not here to throw a bitchfest. most know how i feel about the draft after our first pick but anyways.....

if shit doesn't pan out this year and we only win 5 games are the 2 big FO honchos on the hot seat?

just saying how many years is everyone willing to give this regime?

we had the first year of holmgren evaluating mangini. he's gone. then we had the colt mccoy evaluation year. now he's the backup (presumably). then the pat shurmur evaluation year. what is this year the richardson and weeden evaluation year?

it didn't take this long to build rome.

With all due respect I don't get why you hate this draft so much.

Obviously, I know you are okay with the TRich pick.

After that though what is it that you hate so much? We needed a QB and got one. We needed a RT and got one. You should have known that going into the draft we were only going to fill 3 holes with starters (maybe 4) realistically you are only getting guys who should definitly start from day one in the first 2 rounds. After that its a huge crap shoot.

Sure it sucks we didn't get a playmaking WR, but if we did we would still have holes elsewhere (QB or RT)

If you are upset about where we took certain players don't be. I was in the same boat after 2010 and 2011. I was PISSED about TJ Ward being picked in the second, and I was even more pissed about drafting Taylor and Sheard. I learned though that Heckert knows his shit.

How many teams do you honestly think had a better draft then us last year?? Taylor and Sheard both played very well. Little has a ton of promise and if he shakes off the rust he can be a legit WR. Pinkston was a late round pick and looked to be really coming into his own by the end of last season. Plus we got Skrine and Hagg we were both pretty decent for late round picks and at the very least could be solid depth.

This year ... we didn't really address "need" at starting positions late because there weren't guys good enough to draft that should be starting in this league. We did however get some very much needed depth in areas we needed it like O/D-Line. Sure Rubin and Taylor are studs ... but they are big guys who get tired by the end of games late in the season. Atleast now we hopefully have some good rotational guys.

@miktoxic said:

with 13 picks we shoulda walked out the door with at least 5 solid starters all at positions of need.

fell for minnie's bluff, drafted a rb at 3 (???????) a future clipboard holder, had a chance at a top tier WR and OL and whiffed on both.............

this draft is shit and anyone who thinks it wasn't is just plain DUMB.

We pulled 5 potential starters from this draft... Richardson, Weeden, shwartz, miller, and smelley. One of which is at the most important position on the field and has the skills to be really good.

We also got some very solid and much needed depth along the defensive line and with a very late pick we grabbed a defensive back with huge upside.

Also teams rarely get 5 solid starters from one draft. So if these guys turn out to be "solid" starters in 3 years we are going to look at the draft like it was the best draft we ever had. And aside from the starters you are overlooking the depth we added.

@the-gipper said:

Do you mean you are going to be at Radio City Music Hall?

Yes. I live in NYC.

I only have tickets to day 2. They give out tickets to day 1 the night before at midnight. With the Devils playing there game 7 on Thursday I have now decided to not go wait online for draft tickets.

If anyone is in the area though you can get tickets to days 2 and 3 for free. My buddy actually might still have 2 extras for day 2 if anyone is interested in hanging w a Browns fan, Niners fan and Jets fan.

@louisville-slugger said:

If we got Richardson, J. Martin, and S. Hill I would assume the world was coming to an end. That just looks too good to be true.

I would prefer Randle to Hill. He seems to be a better fit for the WCO. Hill seems like a deep threat we will not be able to utilize

I will definitly be at day 2 on Friday (I have my tickets already)

And I am going to most likely try and get tickets to day 1

Anyone here going??

@louisville-slugger said:

If we can get a top 5 CB for a 5th or 6th, we need to do this. I have read that he is willing to restructure his contract so there is no reason not to bring him in.

He isn't a top 5 corner any more.

Don;t get me wrong he is good, but there is a reason the Eagles want to move him.

I was actually under the impression we did like VB.

I agree with poetic its a great gamble in round 4 or 5

@jrb12711 said:

The way I see it personally, there's four guys in the top ten that are going to be great players in the NFL and could be instant impact guys: Claiborne, Floyd, Richardson and Blackmon. I would have to warm up to Claiborne that's for sure, but it could still be a great pick.

With that being said, it couldn't be more obvious that the Dolphins want Tannehill. The stars align there and they're going to be itching to make sure they get him. SO, keep it simple: trade down to 8 with Miami for their 2nd and 4th round picks this year (realistic). That gives us now in the top 2 rounds:

8th, 22nd, 37th and 42nd. To me this is a two fold win. I could easily see TR falling to us at 8 which would be a no brainer, but there's still a guarantee we get one of those guys above. This would also gives us more ammunition to possibly move up into the last first should there be a guy we want.

What do you guys think? Are you as sold on Floyd as I am/do you think H&H are?

I do not agree that Blackmon and Floyd are "can't" miss type prospects and will immediately make an impact. In fact I would be very suprised if one of those guys didn't "bust" I think the 4 "can't miss" type prospects in this draft would Claiborne, Luck, Kahill, and TRich. If we move to 8 the only way we have a shot at any of those 4 is if Tampa passes on TRich. In that scenario though I have a feeling the Jets try to move up ahead of us to get him.

Tittle says it all. Lets talk about all the prospects you would like to see wearing the pumpkin helmets next year that we could snag in the late rounds of this years draft.

I will kick things off ...

Mike Martin DT, Michigan - I know we have Rubin and Taylor, but if we can snag this kid (especially in the fourth) he will add some much needed depth at the position. I think this kid is going to be a beast in the NFL.

Brad Smelly FB, Alabama - We need a FB who can catch the ball and this kid can do that. Marecic seems to be a question mark so at the very least Smelly can bring some competition at the position. We can probably get this kid in rounds 6 or 7. We have a bunch of picks after the 5th round I would love to see them roll the dice on him.

Vontaze Burfict LB, Arizona State - He could go anywhere in this draft basically from the third round to the seventh. I would absolutely love to roll the dice on him in the fourth. There is a greater chance that he does nothing in the NFL ... but if we do hit on him we hit big on him. Best thing about him is we need backers badly.

Ryan Broyles WR, Oklahoma - We can most likely score him in rounds 3 or 4 of the draft. I wouldn't go out and suggest we don't take another WR in rounds 1 or 2 ... but I will suggest that if he is healthy he could play to the talent level of a guy selected in rounds 1 or 2 ... easily. Like LBer we need a couple quality WR's. If he fell to 4 if would be a fantastic pick.

LeMichael James - RB, Oregon - If we pass on T-Rich James could be a dynamic LeSean McCoy type of back in the NFL. He is a fast, quick and smooth runner. I have loved this kid for the past couple of years. James could be floating around in round 3.

Carson Wiggs K, Purdue - We can possibly grab him with the last pick that we have. Sure we have Dawson for this year and it pains me to think of the Browns without Dawson, but the reality is Dawson wants and deserves a shot to play for a winner. It is hard to hit on a 7th rounder atleast if we take Wiggs we could potentially get a starter at kicker for 2013 and beyond.

Chase Minnifield CB, Virginia - Obviously most of us would like to see Chase in Cleveland especially since we saw how passing on Clay JR bit us in the ass. I was a lot more into the pick a month ago but if we can score Chase in round 4 I am all for it.

Lets see what you guys think ..

That is the second mock I have seen with Fleener going to the Niners ... no way would the Niners waste a first rounder on a TE when they have a top 5 TE in the league.

Also this mock has Vinny Curry and Trumaine Johnson each going mid to late third round. Id either of those guys are on the board when we pick in the third we need to scoop them up.

If we do take him I do not want to select him at 4. He isn't a top 5 talent to me. If we pick at 4 I want the best player on the board and that would be be Richardson or Claiborne.

Also if we pass on him I do want to see Stephen Hill or Kendall Wright at 22. I just don't think those guys are going to fit into the WCO. I would rather Floyd if he drops, Reuben Randle in the second or Ryan Broyles in the 3rd or 4th

To be honest whatever we do in rounds 1 and 2 I want to see Broyles later on

As insanely crazy as this is going to sound if we cut a WR I think Cribbs or MoMass could go before C-Mitch. I just have a gut feeling that H&H are somewhat optimistic about C-Mitch. He just hasn't developed yet. Cribbs is what he is as a WR and that is nothing special (same for MoMass) and Cribbs isn't the returner he was a couple years ago. BTW I love Cribbs and would hate to see him go. MoMass I could git 2 shits about. The only thing that would shock me about Cribbs being cutt would be that we didn't trade him and get something in return (even if its just a sixth rounder)

@mike-h said:

It's only bullshit to people sucking Richardon's big one.

Mikey from now on you should refer to "richardsons big one" as "Trent's Richardson"

I am torn about what to do.

2 months ago I was all about trading the 4 to acquire more picks. My feelings were that you can get running backs elsewhere in the draft. Now though I have really grown to love the idea of us drafting TRich. I won't be upset to see us deal the pick though IF we get the RIGHT offer. I also think that if we can get a deal done with the Phins there is a pretty decent chance we can still get Richardson. I can't see the Bucs drafting when they have Blount who has been pretty productive and if Claiborne is there he would fill a much greater need for them. The Rams have an aging Steven Jackson but he is still productive as well and with Blackmon there I can not see them passing on him.

Idealy what I would like to see is the Browns try and bluff the Bucs into thinking we are going Claiborne and we try and pull off a KWIII type deal circa 2004 with them and grab there second rounder. Then after that we can maybe convince the Rams that the Jags are looking to trade up for Blackmon. Hopefully we can swap with them and pick up an extra second rounder and then we can pull the trigger on a deal with Philly and pick up 2 extra seconds or we can make a deal w the phins for an extra second and a third so they can grab Tannehill and we can still get TRich.

There are tons of options. It is going to be a very interesting draft.