We are a less talented team because of Mangini. His starters are worse than waiver pick-ups and backups. That speaks to his awful talent evaluation abilities. Holmgren`s coach is going to have to be able to add input. Mangini does not know how to operate in a concensus-like fashion. He`s gone.

@joesixpat said:Touche' my good man. Nice insult. The worst poster on the worst website of the worst team. It truly doesn't get any lower than that. Dude, you joined almost to the day Mangini ws hired in Cleveland?..Damn thats just weird s**t.. Either he fired you when he got the job, or you're on some taxi driver s**t..either way its creepy

I'm getting the feeling most around here really aren't up on how well connected Florio has become and how he's grown PFT to the point where now he's quit his law practice, sold PFT to NBC and is collecting a pretty darn good paycheck and has more than a few employees. He's got insiders from every team leaking him scoops... in some cases the scoops are true, in some cases they are half true, and in some cases they are false. Sources that consistently lie to Florio don't get any play. Florio doesn't like to be wrong and he's built his website by being right more than he's wrong, even though some fans who don't like what he has to say would prefer to think he's always wrong. But even when there are half truths or falsehoods, one needs to read between the lines to understand the reasons why some legitimate sources may be giving misinformation. In this case it may be that there are GM candidates who want the Browns job but don't want Mangini. Spreading the rumor that GM candidates are turning down the Browns job for "unknown reasons" might be intended to help Lerner understand that he may be making a strategic mistake with an approach that limits the power of the GM to select a coach, even as they lay the foundation for that by establishing a belief that Mangini may be given the ax. I have no information that says the reported rumor is true or false - but I am pointing out the common sense that Florio is right more than he's wrong, nor would Florio pass on rumors from sources that consistently lie... he doesn't LIKE to look like an idiot even though he sometimes does.

@joesixpat said:OK - from what it says on PFT there's no real credible source behind this, but it's still nice to think that maybe there's a slim chance that Lerner could break the bank and implore Parcells to engage in one last Franchise Building project that would secure his name as the greatest salvation for woebegone organizations http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...eland/#comments Parcells has an open contract with the Dolphins that allows him to take all his money and retire or leave for a new team whenever he wants... it's really just a question of whether he wants to leave his latest success story in sunny Florida and whether he's got enough in him to turn around Cleveland But I'm convinced that Parcells is exactly what Cleveland needs... I have to think he'd quickly bring in a new head coach as even though he and Mangini share some roots on the football family tree, Parcells can't be looking at how Mangini has handled himself and the situation in Cleveland this year and be the least bit impressed But whatever Parcells' choice would be, who could really second guess it? His track record speaks for itself... although he sure didn't win championships in all his stops, he sure left all of his organizations in pretty solid shape when he left, turning around some pretty sorry franchises in the process Cleveland may be too big a job for him at this stage in his life unfortunately, but for the sake of one of the most historic organizations in the NFL, let's hope he at least considers it. same source as Cowher Buys house in Strongsville ???

I'm going to try to be as simplistic as possible with this post. 1) Negativity in the media surrounded the hiring of Mangini in January. It came from the New York media mainly, and then the Cleveland media followed the same path. 2) This media campaign against Mangini is taking anything they can remotely gather and running with it. The Shaun Rogers snub, the Davis injury, the supposed water bottle fine, the Edwards trade, and now the J-Lew comments. All of it has been turned on Eric Mangini right from the get go. 3) This team has talent to win on the defensive side of the ball. What they lack to become a better than average defense is a playmaking safety and a dynamic inside linebacker. Rob Ryan does not need another pass rusher like many believe because he is creative with his pass rush schemes. 4) This team does not have talent to win on the offensive side of the ball. The o-line is adequate, but the Browns have to add a young set of legs with some speed at RB and add a stud receiver before they can get better. This also will allow them to better assess Quinn. Right now the deck is stacked against our QB, no matter who he is. 5) In my opinion, Mangini has made two mistakes since taking over in January. #1 is hiring Brian Daboll. He is not yet ready for primetime. #2 was benching Quinn early in the season. That did nothing but shake what confidence Quinn had. 6) I totally tune out anything in the national media that comes out about Mangini. They don't really know the whole story and use "sources" to mold and shape their perspective into something negative about Mangini. It's actually disgusting to watch the fans buy into everything negative that's been said. 7) Tony Grossi is a pissed-off, little whiney hack who has picked up where the NY media left off in its smear campaign against Mangini. This is a guy who won't write anything positive about a coach when he can't get any information from him. He slammed the hell out of Belichick when BB was calling the shots here, and all that did was make Cleveland fans dislike the best coach here since Paul Brown. Granted, I was pissed at him, too, when he cut Bernie. But a year later (his fourth by the way) BB had his FIRST winning season and a solid, disciplined playoff football team. The fact that Mangini has established discipline and accountability is being lost on many fans because of the offense's performance week after week. There's no question that this is being forgotten about because of the frustration caused at the ineptness of the offense. Would 27-21 losses every week be just as frustrating as 27-6? I highly doubt it. That ineptitude is masking every positive thing that occurs. 9) I don't know what to make of the Kokinis situation yet. But I sure as hell am not going to be influenced by anything that's written or talked about in the media. I'll wait to pass judgment when the whole story is accurately told. I'm not into innuendos or journalists throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks. 10) I really hope that Eric Mangini gets a fair shot here. If you look through all the bullsh*t surrounding him right now, you should see a guy dedicated to his craft who cares about instilling the long-term values that breed winning. No doubt it's ugly right now and people find it real easy to pile on, but I'm with him.

Again...I don't think that is what he said...that is what some want to read. Let's see how it pans out before we get all worked up over the deal.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3859833 Some funny stuff here... and by funny I mean sad... though who ever could have imagined that pairing a former Patriot Defensive Coordinator and a Personnel expert from Baltimore could have gone wrong. Baltimore pro personnel director George Kokinis has been hired as Cleveland's general manager, reuniting him with new Browns coach and close friend Eric Mangini. Kokinis, who began his NFL career as an intern in the Browns' operations department in 1991, was hand-picked by Mangini, who recommended him during his first interview with Browns owner Randy Lerner on Dec. 30. I'd have a tough time believing that Mangini was on board with this move, as throwing his former Apartment mate under the bus to save himself doesn;t make Mangini look all that good. Let's just make sure that the next GM they bring in hasn't shared an apartment with Mangini either.

@atenears said:This is old news. His personal assistant screwed up some team travel plans, and it sounded as if she had some other bone-headed mishaps prior to that. Maybe Mangini was also banging her and she had to be let go. Who freaking cares, this happened prior to the game on Sunday and is non-related to Lerner just now remembering that he owns an NFL franchise. Yeah, you're probably right. This is old news and much ado about nothing. It's unlikely it's a precursor to anything significant.

This is my favorite part of that article and I think it sums up the way I think we should all feel as Browns fans: "This is a town that's tough and loves football," Ryan said. "Nobody's happy. I hate me, too. So, they hate me. That doesn't mean you turn your back. I've got a kid who flunked a class one time. I don't turn my back on him, I go get him a tutor and help him. Now he's a straight-A student, as far as you know. "Bottom line is, my God, a little adversity happens, you don't turn your back. You fight, you rub your hands together and you fight harder. That's what we're going to do on defense. It starts with Chicago, not after the open week. We're not saving anything for the open week. We're going to get after it this week."

@joesixpat said:I don't know about the rest of you but I'm beginning to get the sense that this just isn't the year that the Browns will wind up in the Super Bowl. Given the need for players at a LOT of positions, seems to me that the Browns might want to continue to jettison veteran players to stock up in the 2010 draft So who else has any value that the Browns can part with? Any suggestions? I can think of about 45 guys we could part with to improve this team.. just not sure we can get a pick for any of them.

I am not sure there is enough money, roster spots, or free agents to fill all the holes on this team..

@listercat said:That sounds like some odd cartoon Lister Jr watched as a kid As long as it sounds better than Man-Kok

@inspecta said:Sixpat hates Mangini the way lumby hates Quinn.... It's a strange obsession both these "men" have. LOL Could not agree more my friend

In my opinion we have to face facts here . Our history comes in two parts . I think it is unfair to challenge someone for seeing our history for what it is . In our hay day we were a superb team . An organization hitting on all cylinders and making other teams pay for the experience of playing us both at the stadium and at their own . I am speaking of the old stadium of coarse and the original team . The team we have now is not that team , is not that caliber of a team , is not going to be flaunted as something to behold . We are in an era that the old team never went through . We are in limbo . We have been in limbo since the thief took the team to Baltimore . We will never regain that respect again because it does not exist now . We must develop a team that not only wins lots of games , but does it routinely every year . It will take a long time and it will take great players ,great coaching , and it will take patience . Murals , paintings, colors, and all the other fluff will never supplant the need for hard work ,dedication , leadership and focus form everyone in the organization . We will have to construct a new history , and a new set of standards in excellence because the old one has been gone for decades . GO BROWNS

@inspecta said:Uhhhh yeah dude, thats the point of the joke. He's stupid so he doesn't know to seek out other stupid people, instead he comes to this board full of intelligent people, thus it backfiring... Wow... WOW//Sorry Bro... You didnt think that one thru. Double WOW...

Yes, they were together for a few years with the Browns under Belichick. I believe Kokinis, Pioli, Savage and Saban were all here at that time also.

@joesixpat said:I heard this reported definatively on a Boston radio station this afternoon - http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...stant_expe.html A good move for the Browns if true - Seely's been with the Patriots for a long time all as Special Teams coach. I can't rule out that Belichick was interested in making a change - he spent a lot of time waxing poetic about the Buffalo Bills Special Teams and Special Teams coach this season, so I can't think that makes Seely feel all that great. But I can't think of anything that tells me he was at fault. The Pats never had the best punter in Hanson but it's tough to blame Seely for that. Good hire though - Special Teams is 1/3rd of the game and the Browns got an experienced coach here. WTF is it with elrner hiring coaches? WTF is with hiring all these Bill Belichik coffee fetchers? We did this shit already. It doesn't work.

I dont think to many boards are as active in the playoff season or the off season as this veteran browns board lets face it no other fans bond together like browns fans that have seen only 1 playoff in 10 years and that was over fast...lol And win or lose we are still the best fans in the world!

Masters said:I'll at least give Lum credit that he's on the board for DA's team slurping on him and bashing Quinn. The idea of cheat fans, I mean Pats fans, have to follow around a dude who was on the Pats coaching staff almost 4 years ago is just messed up. I assume they are still bitter that he might have blown the whistle on their little scheme and made BB start playing honestly (I'll bet they're still cheating). It sure does explain why Weiss and Crennel went on to suck giant dong. I seem to recall it being stated that no one KNOWS who blew the whistle, but they treat it like fact. Just like the 'fact' Mangini loves Favre and wants to have his love-child.

@rich4eagle said:Jauron did call the play and said he did after the game FAIL. No he didn't call the play, and he never said he called the play. He is a HC, and they're responsible for the team and how it plays. Did you expect him to throw his QB and OC under a bus? Here is a newsflash: Head coaches in the NFL hire OC's to call the plays and put the package together. Head coaches take the fall or reap the rewards.