yeah subject getting totally off topic now haha

Not sure if this has been posted yet. LINK: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8202dd8b/article/roth-not-a-big-fan-of-browns-new-43-defensive-scheme?module=HP_headlines

Roth not a big fan of Browns' new 4-3 defensive scheme

NFL.com

Published: June 5, 2011 at 12:53 p.m. Updated: June 5, 2011 at 05:06 p.m.

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There's a new regime in Cleveland, but linebacker Matt Roth doesn't seem to be on board.

"I feel the Browns are on the right track. But going into my seventh season, I want to play for a winner," the potential free agent told The Plain Dealer. "I do feel the Browns are right there. They've done a good job. I'm not sure what's going to happen."

When the Browns hired Pat Shurmur to replace fired coach Eric Mangini in January, Rob Ryan, the defensive coordinator, announced he was leaving with one year left on his contract to join the Dallas Cowboys. Roth, who played defensive end in a 4-3 scheme in college at Iowa before converting to linebacker in a 3-4, didn't sound enthused about switching back under new coordinator Dick Jauron, who told the Chronicle-Telegram that he wants to run a "very aggressive" 4-3 defense.

"I challenge you to (find) one player who wouldn't run through a wall for him (Ryan)," Roth told The Plain Dealer. "I love playing that style. I know Dick Jauron's a good coach, but I don't want to have to deal with no nonsense. Just want to come in and play, do my job and have fun. That's a big factor in wherever I go."

Roth played in all 16 games for the Browns last season, registering 3½ sacks and a career-high 86 tackles. Much like Ryan, Roth had complimentary things to say about his former coach.

"I think Mangini was a great coach," Roth said. "I don't think anyone ever quit in either of those years (the Browns' back-to-back 5-11 seasons). We beat up on some pretty damn good teams. We didn't have an easy schedule."

Roth also said youth played a large part in the team's record, saying "if we could have added a veteran to that mix and (gotten) those wide receivers going, I think we could have won at least eight games, easily."

Fullback Lawrence Vickers, also a potential free agent, recently alluded to his time in Cleveland being over as well, saying he understands business but hopes "I don't have to come to Cleveland in a different uniform, because it's gonna be bad (for the Browns)."

my bad meant Veikune I always mix them up lol

Agreeing with all the comments about our talent levels. Since our team came back we've grown complacent and accepting towards our overall team talent. Starters in past regimes were seen as always good and we got used to it even though Pittsburgh crushed us every year. With Holmgren and Heckert take over I see more and more fans realize how shit*y our past teams were. Just because we get starters out of our recent drafts it doesn't mean we're becoming elite, we're just drafting and evaluating talent MUCH better. It'll be at least a couple more years before we become elite like Green Bay whom BUILT through the draft and even with so many injuries this past year, won the Superbowl because of their depth from the draft and overall talent level. We can only hope H/H are leading us in that direction.

With regards to your question about how many more players we'll need to make the playoffs, I say just 1 or 2 more good drafts. But that's just making the playoffs with not too uch effort...winning playoff games and the Superbowl i don't see us in for another 3-4 years now because of our new coaching turnover. Many people quote the Bucs or the Chiefs as a team we could be, crap one year and great the next. But i often disagree with that as their teams were young and talented just with bad previous coaches. I think in our case Mangini was a great coach, a decent GM but was in over his head with our franchise "needing to win now" and thus had wayyyyy too many older vets on the team from Savage's sh*t trades and signings. We're not a young team in a sense that our defense front seven had an average age on the wrong side of 30. We're not building off of a young talented foundation...we're still trying to recover from years of bad drafts and average to just plain old players littered throughout our roster. I only see our last 2010 draft as being a truly successful one, all our previous drafts are moot because we never retained most of the picks anyway (Winslow, Brayon, Wimbley) and we flopped on many of our high picks (Maiava, MAYBE robo and mass). I know we're all excited but we're still years away from what we all want.

I really don't even see why anyone would give a first for Kolb let alone a 2nd rounder for him. Eagles would look brilliant to even get a 1st rounder for him just for showcasing him for a couple starts most of which being mediocre. Everyone is high on Kolb for no reason. If we trade for him we're screwed, much rather have Luck next year anyway (if Colt tanks). Still not even sure why everyone thinks Luck is going number one with most teams resolving their QB issues in this past draft and soon FA. At most only 5 teams need a franchise qb that didn't take one high this past year.

@loyalty said:

He is too smart... I like my QBs to be fast, Retarded and have a taste for codeine.

haha i like. But in seriousness I'm a browns fan first and a colt mccoy fan second. If he does not do well this year, we are a top ten or top five pick team in next years draft. Many say Luck is going #1 next year..why? That's assuming the team holding the number 1 pick has no QB of the future. This draft saw 6 teams take 1st or 2nd round Qbs for the future (Carolina, Titans, Vikings, Jaguars, 49ers, Cincy) so thats 6 less teams that will take Luck at #1 or even in the top five. I totally see Luck on our radar this year and at least in one of our many draft scenario possibilities depending on Mccoy and our season. We have two 1st rounders next year. If we had to use that second 1st to jump a team to get up to grab him I would totally pull that trigger. Of course this is in the scenario of us tanking our season, McCoy doing bad, and Luck having his usual great college season.

What about that Andrew Luck guy? =p

Agreed. Rice comes from a same styling of the WCO. The Vikings run the WCO as do the Eagles and Packers who throw LONG passes each run the WCO. I'm not sure why i see posters think the WCO is strictly short passes with small speedy receivers. the WCO is more of a philosophy of putting a premium on passing the ball first to open up the run and LONG passes. It's not a set system of patterns and calls. Not sure how will ever be a Super Bowl team if we never sign "down the field" guys.

agreed. was a first rounder if not for the suspension.

baltimore got him=p oh shoot mallet at 59?!?!

I want bowers with the first pick in the round. than hopefully a WR or a linebacker

I believe anything in the first round no matter what pick is a usual 50ish percent success rate. Just because its a top pick doesn't mean they're guaranteed pro bowl status. Like with every round after the first, the success rate with picks goes down with every round. With respect to the character issues, I'd never spend a top pick on one, such as Fairley. His dirty play was on national display in the national championship game and so was his motor on "off" plays. Teams with character, good ethic, and teamwork always prevail and than STAY on top.

Didnt go to a game last year since i just moved to cbus. all settled in now and am most definitely going to the Miami game. my 2 best friends are from florida and are huge miami fans *gag* love betting on the games n going with em to see us whoops their butts. And am definitely going to see a divisional game. most likely steelers.

@nw220 said:

Yeah i still remember Mel Kiper Jr. betting everything on Clausen last year saying hes a top 10 talent, blah blah blah yeah Kiper how'd that work out for yeah lol...Anyways i think this is going to be the craziest draft in terms of you really have no idea what the hell is going on, this labor situation through a monkey wrench in everyones plans...And i bet theres gonna be more than 4 teams that trade away 2012 picks to get who they want in this draft

I thought there could be no trading of any draft picks or players because of the lockout?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=pfw-20110317_low_wonderlic_scores_ding_elite_nfl_prospects

Two of the NFL's brightest future stars, LSU CB Patrick Peterson and Georgia WR A.J. Green, registered among the five lowest Wonderlic scores of the 330 participants at this year’s NFL scouting combine.

Peterson was one of four prospects who recorded a dreaded single-digit score, which NFL teams often equate with getting their name right, tying with South Carolina's Chris Culliver for the lowest mark among all defensive backs as both correctly answered only nine questions on the 12-minute, 50-question test.

Green registered the lowest score of all receivers, answering 10 questions correctly.

What does it mean? The Wonderlic test is just a small piece of the evaluation process, designed to gauge the intelligence of prospects. What NFL teams value much more highly is football intelligence — how quickly a player can instinctively read, react and make plays on the field.

"Peterson plays like a low-test guy," one NFL decision maker told PFW on the condition he remain anonymous, "but [if] he's in 'cat' [man-to-man] coverage in the NFL, it's not as big of an issue as it will be for offensive guys."

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"He's a press corner," another longtime evaluator said. "His strong suit is that he can run and press. He won't play for the Patriots, where he's disguising coverage after coverage, but I still think he can be a No. 1 shutdown corner."

A scout with deep knowledge of the kid said, "The more I'm around him, the more I love him even more. I love the kid, and I love the talent. But I don't like the way he plays with his back to the ball. He has an instinct issue, and I think it's tied to his mental [ability]. He can only handle so much. He's not a quick processor. It's a scary year to be drafting in the top 10 because they all have some issue."

The increasing complexity of NFL offenses creates more pressure for a receiver like Green, but teams are still split about how much of a concern his score is.

"He will get it," one evaluator said. "You're going to have to take it slow with him and let him start at one position and let him learn on the run. He's not going to be able to handle learning all three positions. If you ask him to be an X, Y and Z, you're setting him up for failure."

"A.J. won't reach his full potential …," another evaluator said. "I don't know that Julio Jones [who scored a 15, ranking in the bottom 12 among wideouts] will be much better."

A third evaluator said, "You can't cover that guy. He's so difficult to defend. Will it take him some time? It could. That's on the coaches. It's their job not to give him too much. If you overload him, you could have some problems initially, but he's a great kid. He'll work at it. And he'll get it."

Florida OT Carl Johnson produced the worst score among this draft class, registering a 6, and Oklahoma State RB Kendall Hunter was the only other athlete to record a single digit, scoring a 9.

The offensive line and quarterback groups, both expected to score highly given the premium placed on reading defenses and recognizing protection in the NFL, heavily represented the top 10 scores. Alabama QB Greg McElroy registered the top score, correctly answering 43 of the 49 questions he attempted. He was followed by Boston College OT Anthony Castonzo (41), Baylor OG Danny Watkins (40), Wisconsin QB Scott Tolzien (38), Idaho QB Nathan Enderle (38), Central Michigan ILB Nick Bellore (36), Portland State TE Julius Thomas (35), Florida State QB Christian Ponder (35), Michigan OG Steve Schilling (35) and Nebraska CB Prince Amukamara (35).

Although the tests are designed to measure intelligence, many registered NFL player advisers help their clients prepare for the exam, and as a result, the test scores often may be inflated. The Wonderlic company says no tester should improve by more than a handful of points, and any improvement much greater than that should be dismissed.

Castonzo scored a 35 the first time he took the exam last spring, six points lower than he did at the recent combine; McElroy scored a 32, jumping 11 points, and Enderle a 40, falling two. On the other hand, Watkins scored a 15 the first time he took the exam last spring, so his 25-point improvement will be discarded by NFL teams, which have expressed some concern about his ability to handle playing multiple positions despite having the physical skill set to play anywhere on the line. Bellore scored a 21 the first time he took the test, showing a 15-point improvement. Amukamara, who registered the top score for a cornerback, improved by 21 points from the 14 he recorded last fall, and teams that have interviewed him have said the 14 score is a closer indicator of his intelligence.

Wondering if this changes anyone's minds on either prospect.

@pizzadeliveryguy said:

If we take another half-ass WR in the second round, somebody should be fired on the spot.

We don't have a half-ass coach drafting this time around =p

@mr.-t said:

Who knows? Does anyone have a history on the Walrus and his draft selections over the years? That may be a tip on how he likes the draft in the early rounds.

http://sea.scout.com/2/816748.html

History I've seen of him while he was GM and coach for Seattle, agreed with that article, I wasn't really excited over Holmgren's hire until he was named President and not the GM whom Heckert is and i believe Heckert is the main man doing our drafting while Holmgren oversees it. Also have to realize Holmgren was GM AND head coaching those years, I believe just doing one or the other and not both helps greatly in doing those jobs well.

Heckert's tenure with the Eagle's really showed his eye for talent.

Here is Heckert's history before last year's draft: http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/04/in_the_shadows_browns_gm_tom_h.html

@wrrebel said:

Really?? So your saying we should start drafting a corner to replace sheldon brown.

Once again, makes no sense. We have to many needs else where to start drafting for replacements..

You draft a corner in the later rds and maybe sign one. Sheldon brown can still play.. we will not draft peterson, so its a mute argument.

Are you matt millen??

I don't really seeing you put any good points in really. Are you saying Sheldon Brown and Haden are enough on the flanks with eric wright backing them? No. Brown was solid but burnt out at the end of the season and it showed. You speak as if Brown is a lockdown corner and we shouldn't bother looking to draft YOUTH there, as the point of our rebuild is, not to keep the stop-gaps. CB is one of the needs you speak of and there is still free agency left to pull trades and pull in young players. Peterson isn't a replacement...he is the future. Sheldon is gone when his contract is over because of his age and than what? Not everyteam trades down in a draft because they have numerous holes...Mangini did that for us and it helped a bit but we missed impact players and studs such as Clay among others. We need playmakers and cornerstones defense, I will not want us to trade down to grab another "solid" player but pass on all the impact guys.

Since you parted with a less than nice comment I end mine with, are you Retarded? We're all fans here, no need for your belittling comments, as if you're SO right. Not hearing what your genius plan is.

@wrrebel said:

The Browns will trade down before taking Peterson. It is nice to be able to take the best player available but that is not how the draft works out when you have holes. Since most teams now build there team through the draft you have to fill your roster.. I know some of you would love it if we drafted a corner in every round, but it doesnt make sense.

Until we improve our talent we will draft for talent and need.

its like us drafting a Left tackle because he is the best player available, would that make sense?

I have to disagree. I'm not saying we take Peterson just because he is the best available at that point, I'm saying pick him since he is, has the best value, and we need another corner to start, takes two. Sheldon is getting old, I don't see how the left tackle analogy relates to Peterson, we do NEED another starting corner. Taking Peterson doesn't hamper our rebuilding of the roster, it still helps if not solve's starting CB problem for the next decade. I doubt anyone on this thread is saying pick best available no matter what...that just wouldn't make sense.

Not totally sold on Peterson returning kicks/punts helps Cribbs be a receiver but I'm totally agreed on us drafting him. Even if Green is there we should pick Peterson up and he will impact our team better in the long run as it give us one of the great CB tandem for the next decade and us not worrying about replacing Sheldon or Wright remember how to play corner again. Picking receivers early in the first round is not Walrus or Heckert's style, either way they always prefer to draft a agile, fast guy for the YAC or the surprise bomb to stretch the defense (D-Jack, Maclin).

I Just really think people are reading way too much into who we want in the draft not even looking at value. People against drafting Green or Peterson quote the D-line, well I'm not comfortable picking a D-lineman that is not elite if Peterson is still on the board, only Bowers and Fairley are the players i consider elite and they'll most likely be gone. We also have to remember Heckert n Holmgren have plans in Free Agency also, we can't get everything we need in this years draft alone. Peterson, if still on the board at 6, is the best available prospect at that point and maybe in the entire draft.