If Manziel does bad this week, I'd trade him while there is still a shred of stock left on him. I know he wasn't the only problem Sunday, but I really don't see him succeeding in this league. I knew it before, but thought this time would be different. Pocket passer first, scrambler second. Playbook first, bail second. He chooses to scrap the play entirely if he sees a little hole, & if he doesn't see that whole, he holds onto the ball too long. Even if scrambling does work a little, it doesn't last in the NFL. Not worried about Cincy. In game one, they relied on Mr Mediocrity (Dalton) which, against our secondary is a bad idea. Last Sunday, their game plan was run it. Which is the Brown's Achilles heal. They adjusted properly, that's it. They'll lose in the playoffs for sure. My point, our secondary, & receivers will only get better, & next year with Mack back, the draft, & the fact that this team won't have a bunch of rookies or a newly assembled staff, our O & D lines should improve to an impressive level. Back to Johnny........ Trade him. Get a humble QB with NFL experience who can perform the job at a reasonable level.That's it... reasonable. Don't go for the home run. Even if it was a home run, Cleveland would find a way to foul it off. Don't get the hype man with zero NFL experience & call him the future. They did that before & it was a similar disaster. Pettine said himself that this results based league. So why put it on a guy who has yielded no results. If they ride Manziel out, they will waste the last shred of his worth until he is untrade-able. Build a great team around an experienced, modest, yet capable QB & it will work. A guy who can work the system, study the game & the up coming opponent, & execute the game plan they cone up with. Manning can do this by himself. Brady can do it with the cheater guiding him. Not saying they have to be as good as those guys, but someone who works like a computer program. Program him & he'll execute. Hoyer was ALMOST perfect for that gig, but his down fall was the inability to adjust when the game plan broke down. Manziel was supposed to be better at that, but when you can't execute the game plan, & move right to improvise mode with crappy results, there's nowhere to run. (no pun intended). two words... (Trent Richardson). didn't take long to realize he was barely getting more than a yard or 2 every touch.

WHAT!?!? Oh, but keep "the future (jm)??? Shop that guy! We'll get a lot, then we'll get mack back & we'll be back to contending after our draft pick nets us a defensive lineman. I saw no potential in manziel today. Not a pocket passer. Not going to work. We've been duped.

@clevfan4life said:

had to stop watching this game for a bit cause this is just a Shiite mess. But what's become clear is that we don't have the personnel in place in a lot of key areas. I'm not suggesting a firesale where we sell off for shit, but we need to start shopping pretty much everyone we can get anything for. Even guys that are playing well. Even longtime Browns like JT.

Anybody on offense or defense save for our secondary...shop em!! Especially on the front seven..this just isn't working. The Bengals had 100 yds 2 minutes into the 2nd quarter. And this is the recurring theme all season. The only guy on the entire front seven I would want to hang on to is Robertson and only because he's been playing alright but we're still not gonna get a whole lot for him. Even Kruger if someone makes us a nice offer. I hate to say that cause he's one of the guys playing decently well but he's also one of the guys that someone "might" give us something for.

The front seven is just a sieve we will NOT be making any playoff push's with anytime soon. We have a window now where we have a secondary that could quite possibly be the best in the NFL save perhaps for Seattle. We're gonna waste that window with this front seven that doesn't stop the run and doesn't really get to the QB much. We need to rebuild the front now.

O line also needs either a full redo or at least a partial one. How many games have we seen DL living in our backfield? Yet another game we're seeing them meeting our QB at the handoff. That's a structural problem not procedural. Just the wrong people. And if any of you were paying attention to the announcers you heard one of the guys make a key observation that we don't get to see on the TV's.....none of our WR'ers are making moves to the open fields when Johnny was spilling out of the pocket. Maybe our whole WR corp needs an overhaul as well cause this game of all games was not one where we could afford lazy ass wr's that don't do what even D3 college wr'ers do. Maybe this is the Gordon effect that his lazy fucking ass is rubbing off on the other guys? I dunno.

We just need to get what we can. It's clear Pettine and Shanahan aren't going to get much done with this personnel. Gotta let em rebuild.

Thats what i'm talking about. I didn't even see potential today. If the middle opened up on the snap, he ran for it. Wobbly passes lofted in the air, and improv all over the place. The announcer said it exactly. Pocket passer first, then run for it. Not the other way around. We love to tag a guy as "the future" with no experience. Meanwhile, the guy holding the line is doing ok. The org & fans just wait for a bad game, then they want to bounce him. Thats the second time now. "The future"??? Why do they tag someone like that without knowing. You're setting yourself up for failure.

@babernakle said:

Let's not bury the line the wr are just as much to blame but hoyer still did more with it. Best case for use is if hoyer stays Johnny goes pick up a weapon and a pass rusher. Mack is back Gordon a full year they'll make a run

No excuses. This is what i've been talking about for yeeeeaaaars. But i admit, i bit the hype this time. I'm not saying jm won't get better BUT LET HIM SIT!! We just bounced one of the few qb's who got us into contention. & we pulled him while in the hunt. There is no excuse for this garbage. I am so mad that i fell for it this time.I would of put Hoyer in right before the half. Super unorthedox, but the writing was on the wall. It was that obvious. We screwed up fellas. Have a nice sunday.

I don't watch college football. Experience will all trump everything else, especially hype. Not saying Johnny won't be good, but not in this late season situation. The team isn't playing great either. Bengals stink suck though.

@hoorta said:

Don't hate Texas- just arrogance. "America's Team" is arrogance. You want America's Team? Give me the Packers. Wasn't too keen on the Oilers when they were in the same division as the Browns either. Now? if the Texans smoke the Colts on Sunday, fine by me.

LOL, Ohio State- best damn band in the land. Hope they show the entire script Ohio New Year's Day. Really enjoyed the 59--0 beatdown of Wisconsin too.

Oh yeah, forgot about that. A great band & a beat down. I guess that would be fun now that I think about it.

oh... so we have Texas A&M ulum on this board...... interesting... Not a college football guy myself. The mismatches are so whack. Who wants to watch a 64 zip game? Why go through the motions if a #2 ranked team plays a #75th ranked team? Seems like a lot of unnecessary work to me. No fun........ & marching bands...... What's with marching bands?

I went with the Browns over the Colts because of the D & I'm still upset. Now I am going with the Browns over the Bengals because of the D. :-I Dalton is not Andrew Luck, therefore, he will not fool the D. I have not seen the D play a bad game yet, even in the losses. The losses were close until bad offensive turnovers late made the scores look lopsided. As usual, they will give into the run in order to lock down the air attack. I also expect a defensive touchdown by the Browns or at least a turnover in the Bengals zone that yeilds a TD. That said, i will give a scenario in which the Browns DO NOT win this game. The D will help Johnny, but he still needs to score a few touchdowns (obviously). Too many 3 & outs, stalled drives &/or field goals will not work (besides field goals are anything but guarenteed anymore.) Also, Johnny is a rookie so I guarantee he will turn the ball over at least once. I don't care how good he is, he's still a rookie & will cough up 1. If it's just once, there will be no harm done. If it's more than that, it will most likely swing the game in Cincy's favor. If the Bengals make it close because of multiple offensive mistakes, the Browns will not win. Bengals will get the field goal they need to put them over the top. If he turns the ball over once or less, & gets the offense at least 2 TD's, I believe that will be enough with another stellar performance from the D.

Good comments from everyone.... I think i figured out the problem. We have some Johnny fans in here who aren't necessarily Browns fans. Ugh... It seems as though these fans in addition to the Lebron James/johnny Manziel Network (ESPN) has been pouring on way too much hype, which then sets Cleveland up for more disappointment. We'll just wait & see i guess.

@manzier said:

they all had their chance and have been in the league for years. They're not good nfl quality starters. Andersons been in the league like 8-9 years and you all are still hoping he'll be good???....really?

HAha...No, BUT, losing to him would be a big shitter

Just thought i'd start a thread about a concern of mine. The fan's patience. After chatting with many Carolina fans, it seems they have 100% confidence in Derek Anderson. He did pretty good in his start against tampa bay, 24-34, 230 yrds, 2 tds. He will get the call this week in Carolina & potentially against us. This begs the question....with Anderson, Weedon, & McCoy still doing their thing, did Browns let loose too early. Brady Quinn is done, & you know Hoyer will get picked up somewhere. I just feel that the fans are encouraging knee jerk reactions. There is absolutely no harm in leaving Hoyer in for the rest of the year. Don't get me wrong. Im very excited to see Manziel, but i feel the fans tend to put an unbearable amount of pressure on new QB's then practicly lynch them out of town when they are mediocre. Hoyer isn't necessarily a newbie, but the amount of pressure had to be redicilous. "Hey guy, don't f up or you're gone". Not the most comfortable situation to be in. It would be incredibly ironic & f'd up frankly if Anderson came in & won next week. I honestly don't think it will happen with our D, however Browns don't play down to teams that well (not that we would necessarily be "playing down" to them.) I just have more confidence when Browns are the underdawg. Your thoughts?

I have a lot of confidence in the next three games. It's cause of our defense. Manziel should just be focused & play fundemental football with minimal mistakes. If he does that, i know the Browns can at least make it to Baltimore at 9-6.

Fair enough. I'm stoked on the D so i still think this game is very winnable. Go Browns.

@walterwhite said:

Your stand up career has to be on fire right now.

Not joking. He'll be there at 10:55.

@walterwhite said:

See through Buffalo's drive? We scored, why couldn't Brian score in garbage time?

Pettine sad that buffalo was in a prevent D & gave johnny the short field so it wasn't a true test. I'm glad Pettine is analyzing & not suceeding to the hype. This may not be pretty folks, but i do think our D alone can pound the bungholes johnny or no johnny.

It's been announced that johnny will be at the tailgate Sunday with a couple kegs to kick off his pro career.

I just hope it was pettines decision based on what he knows & not pressure or hype. He was smart enough to see through johnny's buffalo drive.

Nope. Pettine should dicipline the boy. 10:55 on game day? Sorry, Hoyer acts more like a pro. Johnny Bench acts like a college boy. Probably out all night drinkin. Hoyer gets the call. 2-0 against cincy... johnny Bench still hasn't looked at the playbook. Pettine knows something we don't. He know's Johnny's not ready, not diciplined, not focused, & is not going to take the gameplan seriously. I don't care abput hype, everyone is smokin the hype pipe. That never works. Ever. Never ever.