@nickers said:

The problem for me is... We paid him $230 mill to elevate the team and be a leader... So far... He has not shown that outside of a couple of decent games... All we keep hearing about is more potential lawsuits, Injuries and rust... It's exhausting

No argument here! It absolutely is exhausting. And as a new fan, it's really disappointing to walk into supporting this team and instantly having to navigate a domestic violence case from Hall and sexual assault lawsuits from Watson. But I guess my thing is doing that was stupid and there was no reason to think Watson was a leader or that he could elevate the team. I'm not a football expert but I don't have to be to see there aren't many leadership qualities in this person. Its expected of him just because thats what QBs are expected to do. If there is someone with the personality to be a leader on the Browns in my opinion its JOK, but that isn't a position where that can shine espicially for the offense. So I guess I just can't blame Watson. If you hire me to be a doctor people are going to die.

Regardless of Watson's off the field drama the thing is it seems like in all of football for as long as I've been alive all anyone wants to talk about is the QB. He throws balls. He isn't a Wizard. Holding the ball too long? I don't know, I think he doesn't have anywhere else to put it which is why he runs through pockets himself so much. I kind of feel bad for him and I find him pretty suspect as an individual. But all anyone ever wants to chant is "this isn't the Deshaun we saw in Houston." Ok well...I wasn't there to be fair so you guys who have been with the sport a lot longer tell me - in Houston did he have to deal with an offensive line that couldn't block a grandma limping on a walker? In Houston did he have to deal with players who were so in love with the other team they couldn't stop holding them affectionately, cancelling touchdowns and sending us back to a 20 yard 1st down every other play? In Houston did he have recievers who had so little seperation they might as well hold hands with their coverage and frolic through the daisies? In Houston did he have running backs drop balls on hand offs, and recievers fail to catch sniper shots right between their jersey numbers? In Houston did he end up on his back more times than his favorite massage therapists? Honest questions. Cause are we over paying him? I mean yes but in my opinion we over pay everyone in the league. Is he making choices that aren't the best in a play? Yeah he does, though he's under constant pressure because he doesn't have an O-line to speak of at all so there's no time to pan and scan and wait for someone to finish their date. We deffinitely depend too much on him to carry this team. He has nothing to work with. I'm good at my job but if I don't have the tools I need to do it, you aren't going to think so.

I won’t see it till a few hours later because it will be on at 2 am here so I’m about to go black out. But I said when the year started that every time the browns win a game I’d buy a piece of merch. I have my first shirt sitting in an online shopping cart as a show of faith. 
 

I know it has not been a very inspiring week for us but with all that’s going on, win or lose this Sunday, as you peer out over the gridiron, don’t just focus on the negative. Remember the words of Mister Rodgers: 

When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, "Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.

Look for the helpers in week 2! Look for them in offense and defense and special teams and on the sidelines and on the bench. You can always find people who are helping. 
 

see you on the other side! 

I think you mean Jenna Ortega for the daughter. Monica Bellucci plays Beetlejuice's ex.

This could come off as a sarcastic attack bait so I want to disclamier right away that it isn't, I'm new to the sport and though I've learned a lot quickly I have a lot left to learn. So this is a genuine question: I've heard a few people say our defense did a fairly good job against the cowboys. I've heard a couple say they were bad too but I've heard a lot of either "they were ok" or "they were pretty good". Our low score can be attributed to Watson or maybe even the offensive line or both or...idk, saturn aligning with mercury. But 33 cowboys points is the responsibility of the defense is it not? No matter how badly our offense plays that has nothing to do with how many points cowboys score right? Unless they intercept and then run it back. Is it just because they had possession for so long that the score was that high? Just because it seems like there are plenty of games that get played four quarters where no one breaks 30. So are we attributing the score the cowboys recieved to the number of turnovers and possession time the cowboys had?

How are their criminal records? I'll take any of the above if I don't have to feel like a piece of garbage for supporting them.

@bbedward said:

We need some AI to auto post why the browns can’t cut Watson every time someone suggests it. They literally can’t unless they move everybody and get an expansion roster next year. Burning a roster spot on the 53 is the only reasonable option, or lose until he inevitably ends up on IR, or hope he miraculously turns it around. 
 

It’s a shame we dumped 2 QBs who proved they can produce in the stefanski offense (Flacco, Jacoby) just because we’re handcuffed by this loser.

I really wish we had the Flacco and DTR combo with the sexual abuser sulking on the bench. Those games were fun.

But can't he just be benched? We could let our kicker QB and it would probably be better.

When I started following football I did my research and worked with my heart. I've lived in Ohio but I've also lived in Commanders territory a lot longer, Tennessee, Florida, and Michigan. I now live no where in the US so I had lots of options. I picked Browns for a lot of reasons - but being the most winning team was not one of them. Quite the opposite. Trying to win by any means necissary has not worked, including giving clearly bad apples record breaking contracts. What we were left with is someone with no integrity off the field and no performance on the field. Personally, I wish Haslam would clean it up. If we keep losing I'll still be a Browns fan but what would make that a lot easier is if we cut back on the dirt outside game time. I'd rather have a team of boy scouts who lose most of the season but set a good example for young fans than a super bowl champion team with Ted Bundy at center, Jeffery Dahmer at QB, and John Wayne Gacy as WR. I know this isn't very good jock brain of me but I feel that as a business, which is what this is, there is still money to be made in that. I think a team you can be proud of can sell tickets, sell merch, win or not. If Clevalnd didn't love underdogs they wouldn't love the Browns. Opening day and I got confused because there was an elf printed on the field but everyone was cheering for the cowboys. When I think of Clevland I think rock and roll hall of fame, and the Browns. Its a core identity that goes beyond winning any particular game. And I feel like, from my admittedly somewhat outside perspective, the soul of the browns tends to reflect the soul of the city.

Integrity does matter. What athletes add to society outside entertainment is role models for kids - lessons in hard work, practice, team work, leadership. Beating people in hotel rooms, sexual harassment and assault, domestic violence... Like it or not when you keep those people on the roster you tell kids this is ok you can be successful and do these things. So they already aren't doing their job and when you don't do your job you get fired. Add to that, the fact that they aren't even doing what is seen as their job by everyone who isn't a virtue signaling bleeding heart loser like me - by winning games... And I'm not sure what the return on investment is supposed to be.

Yay! Football!

@dutch-oven said:

When Kareem Hunt got suspended after the video came out of his physical altercation in a Cleveland hotel lobby, and Kansas City cut him, did the contract become null and void, thus KC didn't have any salary hit because of it?

I don’t know how to navigate all this other than to close my eyes real tight and think of Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah. “Look for the helpers” says Mr.Rodgers. But it sure would be easier if all the criminals got out of their way. 

@dutch-oven said:

I think there is possible physical assault attached to this one? 

Ahh yeah that might make a difference… But I don’t know sometimes I think the weird jock brain could let the right athlete get off a genocide conviction with a month suspension and a fine for poor conduct. 

If they did the typical athlete exceptionalism ho um when it was like 20 people coming forward why would one more matter? Because he played a bad game? 

I'm new to everything and I'm going to preface pretty much everything I say with that. Also I'm in Korea so I watch all the games Monday evening and go blackout from when they air till I get to see them. What I noticed wasn't so much Watson being a bad QB as Watson being our best running back? Which...is weird right? I mean you guys have been at this longer than me... It's weird for a QB to have to run that much, right? It's weird for a QB jersey with white letters to turn green because he has gotten sacked so many times there's more grass on him than on the field...right? I don't know man, I just, as I said in the pre-season I feel like our pocket belongs on a pair of overalls. It just looks like we aren't protecting anything out there and then we blame 4? I don't even know if I like this guy or if I think he's good or not - I don't feel like he is protected long enough for me to even see. And maybe you know, Dallas was just really good at infiltration and that won't be every game. But I felt this way in pre-season too. And when its happening with rookies AND with starters... I have to wonder personally if its not coaching and general team strategy that needs evaluating, not our running back- gah I mean quarter back.... 

All these pockets belong on a pair of overalls. 

So my plan is to buy a piece of swag every time the Browns win. This includes pre-season. The joke when I tell people this is, "Neat! I can't wait to see your one shirt!"

At least this was kinder. Make me broke, Browns.

I know the main concept here is over but as this is one of the few topics at this point I can actually engage with as I try to figure out these awesome but technical lineup analysis' by dutch oven...

If I had voted it would have been for the helmet. Which is weird because I love fantasy stuff so a brownie mascot should be something I'm all in for. But I think one of the reasons I picked the browns is because they stand out in an odd way. I find their genericness charming, like "Great Value Brand Football Team". Bold but basic colors that resemble fall foilage and snow, and then no logo on these helmets, no fancy mascots on them evoking adventure characters like cowboys and bucaneers and vikings, nor animals like seahawks and lions, nor fantasy creatures like giants. Just... Idk...we had a coach whose name was Brown so... Its great to me, even though I used to really like mascots and characters, there's something unique about the browns being a football team whose true aesthetic is...football. Just...Just football. We are a football themed football team. So I don't really need a dog or an elf even though they are fine as costumes to come out and cheer thats fine. But as far as the official aesthetic goes....the theme is football.

But I don't have the histroy with them, so I can understand if this isn't a shared sentiment.

I'm sorry I need to chime in one this again and I need to try to limit the "as a new fan" thing it will get old fast.... That being said...

I've seen more content on this from various podcasts and such and, I'm frankly disturbed. This is a really miserable thing to walk into just trying to get into a sport and at least I'm in my thirties and get the life experince to contextualize it but I feel real crappy about Clevalnd football fans who are 7...8..9...10...11 years old and discovering what should be a life long passion for a game. What has me so messed up is just some of the attitudes on these podcasts. Not here on this board everyone seems really sensible here. But there are all these guys on these podcasts that seem to think they are being sensible and maybe from the inside when you've been exposed to jock mentality as normal your whole life they seem that way. But they aren't. They sound like psychopaths.

The worst example was this guy speaking from the hypothetical that its all true, so we can't say innocent till proven guilty because his whole perspective was a "what if". And he was saying stuff like "he went a little too far" and "I'm not saying the relationship is over, love conquers all." ....Ok so love conquers having a gun pressed against your head threatening to smear your brains all over the concrete apparently. I work in a public service field and make like 30k a year, I'm poor. And I don't play a game on tv. If I pressed a gun to someone's head and threatened to kill them, no one would be making excuses for me saying I went a little too far, love conquers all, just get him some help, or trying to explain how she could have escalated it. You'd have me crucifed. Without question. I might be safer in jail because the mob would be right outside my door.

This isn't me saying crucify Hall - I too beleive in evidence based justice and due process of the law, not just reacting to hearsay. But if he is guilty or not the attitude of making excuses for this behavior if it is real that I've heard on several podcasts is beyond all manner of distrubing and depressing. I'm in genuine shock over it, because its not the way it is anywhere else nobody would be ok with making excuses for this if your job wasn't throwing a ball around.

@ibleedbrown said:

Welcome to the board Orange Ranger! I gotta admit l’m curious about life in Korea, feel free drop some informational nuggets on that, like the pros and cons of living there. I’m a big fan of the food. I read a journal a while back about a former MLB pitcher who moved there to play ball. The thing that sticks out is he said they eat fish for breakfast.

Is K Pop still a thing? A few years ago l dated a gal whose daughter was ate up over BTS. I gotta admit they were talented dudes. 

Yeah, the late 90s was a low point for us Browns fans. But back in the saddle again!

Your handle and avatar totally reminded me of this, a shreddier version of the Mighty Morphin Power Rangers theme song. I’m more of a Voltron guy myself.

Awesome. Love that theme. Fun story I once was messing around with my friend from out of town talking about just nostaglic stuff and played the original full version and then we went hiking but I somehow didn't realize I had that song playing on a loop and my speaker had fallen when my door slammed shut and so my downstairs neighbor was having power rangers pumped through his vents for about 6 hours.

I haven't eaten much fish for breakfast but then I don't eat breakfast much at all. There are lots of fish dishes. Grilled eel here is my favorite. K-Pop deffiitely still a thing though I'm more into the smaller rock scene with bands like National Pigeon Unity, Walking After U, and Guckkasten. Hit me up about being out here anytime, I've been here close to a decade.

You know as someone new to sports and football one thing I always found strange was that cities will have all this emotional investment in their teams, but as an outsider I always found it weird a bit because most of the people playing for that team were not local. In fact it seems very rare that they are. I sometimes thought it should be a policy, forget trades and big salaries, it should be like running for office! If you want to play for the Browns or Bengals you need two have at least a year of Ohio residency, or something. It was just a shower thought. And then there's this story... Yeah... There....might be more important things than just being a local...

I'm not a member yet but I've registered and I hope I will be soon. I'm not sure if this actually publishes otherwise but I figured I'd give it a shot.

I wasn't a big sports fan growing up and have been trying to get more into it as an adult. I've wanted to follow NFL for a while which can be a challenge because I live and work in Korea. But this year I decided I'm going for it. I'm learning slowly so I hope some fans will be patient with me, I'm very excited to get into the sport. When it came to picking a team to follow I didn't have much to go on - I didn't have the histroy with football a lot of you probably do. But I lived in Ohio from the ages of 7 to 11 and they were the happiest times of my childhood. I get weepy eyed when I see a Meijer. This was also though in the dark times... 95-99... So I'm sure many of you will know why I didn't get indoctrinated into Brown-ism then... I actually only learned about all that today and I can't imagine what it must have been like. I got emotional myself seeing old footage of fans at that last 95 game. I like under dogs, who doesn't? And one of the things that attracts me to football is the NFL season represents a transition to my favorite part of the year - the colder months. Pre-season in august tells me we won't suffer in the heat much longer. The Browns colors reminds me of the autumn leaves, sweaters and jackets, warm drinks, holidays. Its a comforting sight and football itself reminds me of home even though I didn't get into it that much when I lived there. I am an American, and its always been a part of my zeitgeist if I engaged in it directly or not. Some of these reasons may seem silly, or arbitrary, and I don't pretend to be equal to those who have been with this team forever - but I'm excited to give my support and learn the game through the Clevland Browns. Better late than never!

I was also realy excited to find this site. I hate reddit but really wanted to find a community to learn the game from a support the team with. So thank you, all those who keep the old net style message board afloat.