Interesting thread Gip, I agree with how you bracketed those QB's- makes sense. Eventually the luck will come around and you will find your franchise QB, which I think is just what this team needs to really step it up. This year showed so much promise, if given a franchise QB who knows how far you would have gone this year.

This behavior is pretty terrible. Probly the worst case of this was when I went to a Boston Bruin's game last year and Chara hit a guy in the face with a slap shot, and all the drunk Bostonians went nuts and cheered. I felt embarassed to be a Bostonian that day.

Good luck Gip, thanks for being the one to welcome me to this board and hopefully you can still find time to contribute.

^ Exactly. Wilson is fully capable of passing from the pocket. From what I've seen of Johnny he doesn't have seem to have an awareness of the pocket passing game. Who knows, if Johnny can adapt to an NFL style offense and use his running/speed like Wilson does, he may be comparable one day. But not anytime soon and who knows if that will even happen.

I wouldn't compare Johnny M. to Russel Wilson and quite honestly it baffles me that I keep hearing people everywhere making that comparison. Totally different player.

Roger Goodell should be tarred and feathered. I really do think that the games are steered in a certain direction by the league, and being the one in charge he has shown himself time and time again to be an inept jackass.

Some of the calls (and non-calls) that I have seen this season in many games are just mind-blowing. Calling a penalty on one team constantly then not calling it on the other team, etc.

Probably the biggest example of it is with the Pat's CB Brandon Browner. The refs throw a flag anytime he goes within 10 f*#*ing feet of a receiver, but if it's Revis or McCourty they aren't nearly as likely to throw a flag. I do think that they like to punish individual players more than others at times, which also isn't right.

@bbedward said:

Still don't think it was necessarily a bad choice to put manziel in. He got flack for doing it he would have gotten flack for not doing it. He's gonna play it out but I think we'll be more hopeful on manziel if he shows improvement against Carolina, and even more improvement against Baltimore.

I agree with this sentiment entirely for several reasons. Hoyer's play has been on the decline as of late and before the season is over it was a good idea to at least evaluate how Johnny can do starting a game because lets face it, it doesn't look too likely that Hoyer is gona be your guy if he keeps playing the way he has and doesn't improve in this offense.

Also regardless of who started that game, it was an absolute crap show. Granted Johnny didn't help the situation at ALL, but I doubt Hoyer would have been able to make that game any better than it was.

Another thing to take into consideration is that you knew exactly who you have with Hoyer- with Johnny? You had no clue (well some clue but not in a real game situation). But with the way Hoyer has played recently, isn't it better to take a chance at having someone new in the pocket, especially when you spent a good deal of money and a high draft pick on him?

And as someone stated earlier, I do think that the Buffalo game got kind of over hyped. Yes, he drove down the field and ran the ball in. Good for him, and yes he looked good but you can't judge a QB on one drive in a game. Can you pick up some nuances of their playing style? Yes, but it doesn't tell you who they are when they get out there to START a football game.

@winstonlegthigh said:

Wow, this is exactly what I was gonna say you just said it better.

Look, I'm not a huge fan of JF. I don't like his immaturity. I think he is too small for the way he plays. I think he breaks down and tries to improvise plays too quickly. I think he is a college qb whose game won't translate well to the NFL. I thought he would be a bust, and I was pissed that we picked him. All that being said, he is our guy for now and probably next year so I am going to try and be as optimistic as I can. I think (more like hope) if we build the team we are trying to build, and he matures in his game, he could be our Russell Wilson.

Everyone saying how awful he was needs to calm down, this loss is not on him. This was one of the worst overall games I have seen by us I can remember. Everything sucked. After all the smack talk by the bungles, in a must win, playoff atmosphere, at home, to come out and play like that is disgraceful. I couldn't believe what I was seeing, it was like our whole team conspired to suck because JF was in. We were suppose to play like last week, I'd like to see what he can do with us playing at that level.

I agree with your attitude, and I entirely agree with everything in your post minus the Russel Wilson bit. I think as much as Johnny has the mobility part down, Wilson is a much better passer and unless Johnny can get his passing skills in the pocket up to where he is great at an NFL level, he won't be comparable to Wilson.

I watched this game and I honestly don't think the refs are what hurt you guys. I was hoping and praying that the Browns would win because of my undying hatred for the Bengals, but unfortunately your team played like crap and let me down. I hope somehow you guys can win the rest of the season, I will be watching. Somehow the Browns have become the only other team I follow behind the Pats.

I don't see nearly as many Aggies fans here now.

Anyway, yesterday's performance was obviously NOT what anyone wanted from Johnny boy. I don't really think there are any excuses. Hoyer wouldn't have won the game either, the team as a whole did not have a good day. However I'm not using that as an excuse by any means. Late decisions, bad decisions, bad throws, you name it. He f$^%ed the goose, big time.

But it was his first NFL start. If he was on the Pats, I could hear all the Bostonians now screaming about how his career is over and they should trade him now. I don't think so, because he hasn't had a chance to get his feet wet with real NFL football. Now he knows what it's like to get your ass handed to you so I guess that's a good "Welcome to the NFL" message. Maybe the rest of this year he can just work on improving plays in real-game situations.

@the-gipper said:

Well, BB had 5 seasons here and he had a losing record in 4 out of 5. In his first year in NE without Brady starting he went 5-11.

So, the only evidence we have is that without Tom Brady at QB.... he has been a loser in 5 out of 6 years.

But my suspicion is that BB will retire as the HC of the NEP when Brady calls it quits.....and then you will have a guy born in the same hospital as me for your HC.

Agreed. However you have to take into account that he didn't quite run the Browns like he runs the Patriots. The Pats are the BB show. He is GM and HC and he gets the players HE wants, and does what HE wants with them. His first year here, he didn't have as much of a chance to craft the team and he pretty much got what was handed to him, and look at the pick that he DID make in the draft. He picked arguably one of the All-Time greatest QB's in the game of football when no other team even gave him a look. But there are many other things that make him a great coach, I think too many people emphasize the Brady thing. It will be very interesting indeed to see what happens when the Brady days are over.

@everlastingxxx said:

He was walking (wobbling) in the parking lot. My little boy spotted him. We play a game where you get points for spotting items of interest. A midget is worth 10 points.

God I love Wal-Mart. The other day I went into the mens room to find the ENTIRE bathroom coated in baby powder. Every stall, urinal, walls, toilets, ceiling, looked like hell. So I went out and informed what appeared to be a 4'7" 300 pound woman of the situation and her response? "Ok." No ff#&$^'s given.

"They fetishize their military history ["Don't Mess With Texas"] yet the actual historical record shows that Texas conclusively lost every engagement they were in."

Finally someone else who agrees with me. Didn't they get their ass handed to them by the Mexicans time after time? Yet they still let their bull horns and homo-erotic vibes run rampant while they think they're so much cooler than the rest of the continental U.S.... sheesh.

@the-gipper said:

@pats_fan93 said:

I don't think its Tom Brady that gives New England fans this arrogance- even for all the years the Red Sox and Patriots weren't great, New England fans are typically arrogant jackasses who can only respond to disagreement by insisting that they are right.

Nothing new to me, I am a lawyer after all.

Also I don't think the Pats will necessarily be a bad team again just because Brady retires. If they let Jimmy G. learn behind Brady for a few years I could see him being a decent franchise quarterback. He is a FAR better backup skill-set wise than Mallet and Hoyer ever were (though you guys know all too well about the latter)

Oh, now you really sound like a freeking Steeler fan: "We are great because we are great and nothing will ever turn us from the path of greatness."

FYI, I think only twice in the history of the NFL did a team lose a HOF caliber QB and follow it up with another HOF caliber QB.

Joe Montana followed by Steve Young

Brett Favre followed by Aaron Rodgers.

and maybe include Bob Waterfield followed by Norm Van Brocklin.

(and in the near future probably Peyton followed by Luck)

Jimmy Garropolo might be your Mark Malone (who had to follow up both Terry Bradshaw and Dan Fouts) or your Brian (not Bob) Griese or your Jay Fiedler or your Quincy Carter...or your Tommy O'Connell

I never said Jimmy G. would be a HoF QB, nor did I say that we would be a championship team. I said I think he has the talent to be a "decent franchise quarterback". Also do I think we will still be contenders? As long as we have Bill Belichick, yes we will be. We may not win the AFC east every year after Brady leaves but yes we will still be in the running because Belichick knows how to assemble a good squad of guys year after year.

@the-gipper said:

We know a guy from Akron, Ohio who claims to be a Cowboys/Yankees fan. His name is LeBron James.

Years ago I invented a term that you will see here on occasion: FRAK, simply FrontRunnerAssKisser. Guys that jump on the bandwagon of teams that win instead of really being loyal to you home town team.

To paraphrase Marcellus Wallace: Fuck FRAKS.

FRAK. Best thing I have heard today. I love it.

@the-gipper said:

We deal with this regular with Pittsburgh fans. But, once Tom Brady retires the arrogance will go out of them...and they will be the irrelevent team that they were for the first 40 years of their existance. (though their 40 years wasn't as bad as the Steelers first 40 years)

I don't think its Tom Brady that gives New England fans this arrogance- even for all the years the Red Sox and Patriots weren't great, New England fans are typically arrogant jackasses who can only respond to disagreement by insisting that they are right. Also I don't think the Pats will necessarily be a bad team again just because Brady retires. If they let Jimmy G. learn behind Brady for a few years I could see him being a decent franchise quarterback. He is a FAR better backup skill-set wise than Mallet and Hoyer ever were (though you guys know all too well about the latter)

I know a guy from Texas who is a Dallas Cowboys/NY Yankees fan... I think alot of people like that are simply bandwagon fans who followed the Yankees for years simply because they were consistently a good ball team.

Seriously, take a gander at this site if you're interested- http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/forums/patsfans-com-patriots-fan-forum.10/

The amount of bickering, bitching and idiocracy has driven me from it and I used to love posting there. I've been logging on here instead the past two days.

You know, regardless of wether he turns out to be a star or a complete bust, Johnny F. does have a certain effect that is hard to describe. I am a Patriots fan and the only reason I joined this board was to pipe in on the Johnny Football thread, and I ended up enjoying this site far more than the Patriots fan forum... probably because most Patriots fans are stubborn rude conceited a-holes who refuse to have a legitimate conversation or difference of opinion without arguing.

The only people allowed to like the Yankees are people actually from New York. Growing up all these kids who were born and raised in Boston started wearing Yankees hats in high school to be "rebels" and the ones who didn't get pummeled were extremely lucky.