@browns149 said:

The stoolers were the doormat in the NFL from 1933 until 1972. They had 5 winning seasons in 39 years

yes ....the Steelers were sorry during that time ..so?? nobody said that the Steelers were great before the 1970's ..they clearly weren't ..The arguement was about where the Brown's stood as being a successful franchise . Since 1950 through 1970 they were excellent ..Since then , they have had a brief stint of success ...depends on how you grade success

The Brown's have been below average for quite a while..... by any measure . Hopefully your next Head Coach and current GM will turn your fortunes around and you guys can start living in the more recent past/present,rather than 40+ years ago

@the-gipper said:

Of course, there was the entire Seahawks/Steelers Super Bowl game.

I don't know if I am on the side of the "The Seahawks was robbed" crowd. But there certainly was a crowd, and much of that crowd were a variety of well respected national commentators. Here are some of their comments. Steeler fans can

argue, but the perception continues to exist that this game was the worst officiated postseason game in memory:

Other Opinions...

"Here's what referee Bill Leavy's crew did, point blank: It robbed Seattle. The Seahawks could have played better, sure. They could have done more to overcome the poor officiating. We understand that those things happen and all, but even with all the points Seattle left on the field, there's a good chance the Seahawks would have scored more than the Steelers if the officials had let the players play." - Michael Smith, ESPN.com

"The first-quarter offensive pass interference called on Darrell Jackson that turned a touchdown into a field goal was robbery enough. But the fourth-quarter holding call on Sean Locklear made you wonder whether the refs had even less of Aretha's r-e-s-p-E-c-t for your Seahawks than I do...on this night, the Steelers had their own version of your 12th Man. He wore a striped shirt and a whistle. He threw a flag."- Skip Bayless, ESPN.com

"Like a crazed CIA analyst running through the halls of Langley screaming into open offices about some impending calamity, I've been shrieking hysterically about the terrible officiating in the NFL and warning that some day the brutal calls were going to affect the outcome of the Super Bowl. That some day was Sunday. Every single questionable, marginal or outright bad call went against the Seahawks." - Kevin Hench, FOXSports.com

"this will always be remembered as the Super Bowl that the referees screwed up." - Aaron Schatz, FOXSports.com

"the Seahawks outplayed the Steelers on the vast majority of plays and still lost, thanks largely to two dubious penalty calls that cost Seattle a TD and a first-and-goal at the 1...Seattle fans have a right to feel sick. Their team just suffered the most unjust loss in Super Bowl history." - Kevin Hench, FOXSports.com

The Media is always right ...really ,the Steelers are hated by everyone else in football .success breeds contempt ...The Media ( ESPN and the like is mostly a NY market ---The Jets blow and the Giants are mostly the Cowboy's beeotches)When you get to 15 Championship games and 8 Super Bowls , you are going to get calls both good and bad ....only a loser continuously whines about refs calls for a team they hate .... Again , get there once in a while Browns fans and maybe your team will get a good call or two

@clevelandfanforlife said:

It would be different if it were the Bengals. Their fans aren't everywhere and aren't as obnoxious. The Steelers in a way have become the Yankees: if you don't love them then you hate them. This isn't college. It isn't good etiquette to root for a team in your conference.

I agree partially ...I NEVER rooted for the Brown's when they were playing in the AFC or NFL Championship game ,BUT, I did not root for the Bengals either . As a matter of fact , it's kind of like OSU Fans and Michigan ..I root for my team and anybody who is playing against the Browns/Bengals/Ravens /Oilers etc ... The only time I ever wanted the Browns to win was when it would help the Steelers ( and even that was hard )... I understand the rooting for the Packers mantra on this Board ...Bet Chicago and Minnesota fans are mostlY rooting for the Steelers ..although the Steelers are becoming a "Hated " team because they are always in the mix ...I understand that too... success breeds a lot of emtions for and against you

@the-gipper said:

I think you mean "objective" but.............

The Browns were a successful franchise up until the early 90's? WRONG This is the part where it always gets comical when talking to a young Browns fans.....they actually believe this statement!

The Browns stopped being a successful franchise in the late 60's and despite their four year streak of winning season in the 80's were a sub .500 team from then until the early 90's you reference, and an even worse team since! Immediately prior to that four year run and immediately following that run they were one of the worst teams in the NFL. with a .313 and .188 winning percentage in 1984 and 1990 respectively.

I didn't bother to look up the Steeler numbers you posted for two reason:

1. They are probably wrong as well

2. More importantly..............it's old news just like the last time the Browns were a solid franchise......it's old news!!

This is why you have no credibility...at all. You make bald...incorrect statements constantly. Simple facts that can be looked up.

I interpret "successfull" franchise as one that has winning seasons and makes the playoffs.

So, here are the facts:

1946 to 1973 a total of 28 years the Browns had 26 winning seasons, 1 losing season (1957) and 1 .500 season and made 19 playoff appearances.

For the rest of the 70s, 6 years, the Browns had 2 winning seasons, 1 .500 season and 3 losing seasons, and no playoff appearances.

For the decade of the 80s, 10 years the Browns had 6 winning seasons, 1 .500 season and 3 losing seasons with 7 playoff appearances.

So, in the 44 years prior to 1990 the Browns had 34 winning seasons, 7 losing seasons, and 3 .500 season with 26 playoff appearances and 8 championships.

Prior to 1990 the Browns NEVER had more than 2 losing seasons in a row....and that only happened twice.

Since the 1990 season, Oh sure, things have been poor. But the statement that the Browns were a successful franchise is absolutely correct.

(Compare this: beginning in the 1972 season there have been 39 NFL seasons. The Steelers have 30 winning seasons, 7 losing seasons, 2 seasons of .500, 25 playoff appearances and 6 titles. They too have only twice had 2 losing seasons in a row)

Again clown fan ....start your "facts " in 1950 ...the NFL does not recognize the AAFC or any of its stats and/or teams ...I guess your arguement about being a "successful" franchise is like arguing over whether the glass is half full, or half empty ...If winning regular season games and having a solid winning % is your definition of success then go with that ..you are right ..hooray for the Browns',they have been successful up until and through the mid-1990's .....Now if you judge success by actually winning a title ( isn't that why LeBron left town??) then this guys arguement is correct ...the Browns have SUCKED since the late 1960" s

Your call

@the-gipper said:

Games played by the NFL/AFL/AAFC. Not sure why this concept is difficult for some of you to grasp.

It's difficult to grasp because it's total BS ....The NFL does NOT recognize ANY of the records or stats from the AAFC .It's Teams are not recognized by the NFL either ...Look that up you idiot ..THE NFL DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THE AAFC!!!!Really man ,the Brown's have an excellent NFL history ...why are you so anal about this ??? You solidify the belief that most people around the country have about Brown's fans ...that they are totally clueless and among the biggest crybabies of any fanbase in the NFL ..why the inferiority complex ???...I don't see Detroit Lion's fan carrying on like this >>>>>( another hopeless loser since the late 1950's )

In the 1920's the teams that played professional football were mostly in the state of Ohio .... when you have 8 teams playing and 7 of them are in one state , you are probably going to have the deck stacked in your favor for most "regional wins" ...Ohio is the cradle of Pro Football

The NFL RECOGNIZES the Green Bay Packers with the most NFL titles .... 12 ...I mean come on ..you want the NFL to recognize your Team's stats and records from before the time new fanchise came into town in 1999 and they do (1950-1995)....but yet when the NFL doesn't recognize the AAFC you cry foul??? Just because YOU recognize it ,to back up some weak arguement you conjured up in your dented dome?? ....that's weak man , really , get over yourself ....hopefully your team will pull its head out of its ass and start winning so you can get off Wikipedia and stop dreaming about yesteryear ..... You are turning into a hopless NERD ...

@calfoxwc said:

whining isn't talking about facts.

The fact is, the steelers oline was tackling defenders openly, and not one holding call that I saw. (I was cooking though)

What was his name, the ref? Jeff "maybepaidoff" Triplett? He's usually on the scene of these things,

unless I got his name wrong.

There were two -late- hits I saw, totally unnecessary, by an offensive linemen of the squeelers.

The announcers even noticed it. No call.

I won't applaud dirty, cheapshot football. IF you want that, you should be all giddy with professional wrestling.

I believe the officials know that previous super bowl winning teams like the stupid ratbirds, and the steelers,

get Michael Jordan can take 5 steps to the basket without a traveling call ... treatment, because it benefits the NFL.. or them.

Play the game right, or don't play it, that should be the refs' creed. We have a few corrupt NFL officials I think.

Before the game, I told my family it's in Pukesburg, so the steelers will get away with a lot.

Even then, the stupid ratbirds could have won, but Flacco flipped out of his mind, and Rice went stupid, carrying the football againi,

like a track relay team baton.

Both sissy teams didn't beat each other up enough to suit me. Neither will make it to the superbowl.

Buut head ..If you would watch Harrison play , you would see him get held almost every fricking play .....Holding is subjective in the NFL . ever since the extended arms blocking was legalized it goes on everywhere ..as far as getting to the Super Bowl , you have a 50/50 chance of being right ...The Browns sure as hell aren't going ..and that's 100% ...What a fricking puss baby comment you hate what you realize you will never experience

@pizzadeliveryguy said:

I hate to say it but I actually feel bad for the Ravens. That was the most horribly lopsided officiated game that I have seen since the Pitt-Sea Superbowl. The Ravens didn't stand a chance to win that game. I usually am not a big fan of talking about the officiating but this was just reprehensible.

Wow ..Steelers must of won due to poor officiating..Can't you think of something else?? that's as old as the Turkey Jones shit you fools spew ..Big deal .Turkey Joe planted Bradshaw ..he went on the win four titles ...sinve that time , the Browns have ZERO .... maybe if you guys had your owner pay the refs off ,you'd win too

@atenears said:

No pal, you will never understand. I actually feel sorry for your kind. I could care less about the wins or losses, the Browns are like life, the Steelers are like cutting in line, doing drugs, abusing women, and other nasty things associated with life.

Go change your oil with your truck supported by a cinder block you POS.

I am sorry your life sucks so bad dude...maybe next year ...moron

@mark-o said:

I like Jeff Fisher after Bud Adams forces him out in Tennessee because he doesn't want to play Vince Young at QB.

That might work and history could repeat itself ...Just likewhen Belicheck got booted out of Cleveland for getting rid of Bernie ( that's when he lost the fanbase)and then he went on to win multiple Super Bowls with another organization and a better QB... Get Fisher and maybe lightning will strike twice for you...You could be the next Patriots

Hillis-iz-Boss said:

I agree, the only way that we get luck is if he desides to not commit and comes into the draft next year and colt proves that he's not the guy next season. Then I sww us trading a whole draft in necessary to take luck.

He still needs somebody to throw it to

@canton-mike said:

I HAVE to go with '78....NOW if we could get Clay Jr this year, I would be ecstatic! That kid is a PLAYER & his excellent bloodlines extend beyond his father.

Mike

wow that was a long time ago ....which explains a lot . Maybe the 2009 class will be the best

@mark-o said:

People have been saying that next year is the Bengals year for about the last 5 offseasons. They still have no defense and who knows how healthy Carson Palmer is after last season.

Actually Cinti's D is statistically better than the Brown's .Plus they have an up and coming LB Corp . Palmer was out for effectively the whole season and they finished AHEAD of Clev . A lot of ? no doubt , but they have a good nucleus on D and Palmer (if he's healthy) is much better than any QB in Cleveland

@pumpkin-eater said:

Which is clearly why you troll the Browns Board to beg for our approval. I've got news for you... you're not going to get it here. Same as any other Squeeler loser.

wow , tongue in check reply and this is exactly the kind of response I expected . Like shooting fish in a barrel priceless

@pumpkin-eater said:

Says a squeeler fan on the Browns board.

Envy? Envious of what?

Do you squeeler fans really think that being a squeeler fan is some sort of crowning achievement?

Why?

How pathetic that the lone bright spot in your miserable lives is being a fan of a team.

Their achievements are not achievements of your own.

Hey pumpkineater... I only come on here to laugh at the morons, like you , who get so defensive about other "trolls" shiting on your Team ..It is hilarious

Really , it was a joke intended for someone who said they have an unusual hatred for anything "Squeeler "..Just a little humor here . I guess you can't take a joke , although you should be able to , seeing how you have rooted for the Brown's all your life BTW , the Steelers and their success is about #915 of the important things in my DAILY life .Just after remembering to take out the trash .The Team's success has no impact on my life ( but does give some sick satisfaction in seeing how it bothers a pathetic fool like you) ..As far as acheivements , I don't live and die with Pittsburgh's football Team . I have acheived plenty in my life and I have more bright spots than any Football team who may have won a Super Bowl (or five) would ever provide ...

I raised two great young men ,by myself , each of which were able to get scholarships at top flight D1 universities (one Football and one Golf).One is a Scholastic All-American. I now have a great wife ( her only fault is that she's a Brown's fan )and an even better marriage ..I have 100's of friends ... I choose to work ..I do not have to... My house is paid off and I did not lose any of my money in last years stock crash ..Plus , I am a scratch golfer and even though I am 50 , I look 38 .... Don't judge a book by its "cover "moron ...Every now and then you just have to laugh at the defensive ,vicious comments I see on this board

@inspecta said:

Yeah, we're terrible fans for having expectations for our team....

Which BTW, I know your referencing an article this preseason about the fans chanting super bowl. It was the first time that's happened since our return. Geez, after a 10-6 season in which our offense was explosive and we had everybody returning plus adding a few players we actually had high hopes for our team. The nerve of us Brownie fans, to actually take enough interest in our team to do such a thing.

Douchebag...

Tell ya what asshole . Since you clowns like to reference your Team's storied past ad naseum ...I was referencing the other 25 years from 1970 up until your team fled in the night to Baltimore ,that Brown's fans were always talking about going to the Super Bowl ...Every year!!! ..I know this because we moved to NE Ohio in 1970 and that is all I heard from Brown's fans .That's the famous Cleveland mantra "wait 'til next year"..So really , I wasn't referencing the article in the paper this summer .I was speaking of past observations over several decades .

Plus , now that you mentioned it, the chants from this summer again go to show how clueless most Brown's fans really are and sheds a great deal of light as to why "Super Bowl" is chanted almost every season...Most of you don't know SHIT ... That 10-6 team sucked ...They had no defense, a rising fraud for a QB ,plus they went from playing a pasty schedule that year to playing a pretty tough one in 2008 .You have one player on Defense who MIGHT start on either the Steelers or Ravens .. On offense you had no QB and that is the most important position on the field , especially given the fact that your defense had more holes in it than swiss cheese. So really, this has nothing to do with high hopes, because most fans are too stupid ,or blinded by the Koolaid you drink , to see their Team ,or palyers , for what they are . In the BROWN'S case, what they were was very mediocre... I mean really, if you knew anything about football how could you miss that badly in your proclaimations of crowning these shitbags as being Suer Bowl worthy ..It's not taking an interest in your Team moron ...it's called being a Koolaid drinking dipshit

Once had my 7th Grade teacher tell me that Mike Phipps would end up being a far better QB than Terry Bradshaw ..That comment, coupled with the littany of other dumbass remarks over the many years from Brown's fans confirms what every fan from any other Team in the NFL already knows ...Most Clown's fans have a football IQ of ZERO

@furnier said:

It occurs to me that about 98% of Squeeler fans are more than likely "Anti-Learners."

Doug

good one ..Those 98% can join the similar "anti-learner" Brown's fans who ,almost every year for the past 40 years, have chanted Super Bowl at training camp...i guess "they will never learn"

@pumpkin-eater said:

I have an irrational hatred for the Steelers or anything Steelers related.

I think you suffer from one of the original sins ENVY

@dieselpusher said:

Sounds like he's afraid of life. Doesn't want to leave his hole and travel out of his comfort zone. Basically a recluse.

Yes ,you nailed it pal..That's what Dan Rooney is ...a recluse who is afraid of life

Zombo said:

Here's my problem with Bart Scott: Baltimore got his best years. We gotta quit relying on other's sloppy seconds and grow our own. I'm not saying stay out of the free agent market, but delve in for mid-level complimentary players that fit our needs, not splashy high-priced guys.

If you watch Pittsburgh through the years, they have no problem letting a guy walk, maybe even a year or two before they should, if he's due for a big contract and they have already gotten their best years from them. Sure, Joey Porter had a great year in Miami, but Pittsburgh plugged somebody else in and is going to the Super bowl without him. Pittsburgh got Earl Holmes best years from him, and then we paid him. That's just stupid.

If we have to languish for a couple years as we try and fill needs through a draft that Savage punctured holes in, so be it, but there are good, quality, "no-name" free agents every year that can fill holes without overpaying and endangering your cap space. I actually think we are already an 8-8 team with a solid draft and a few role players ... so with a few lucky bounces, staying healthy and some good coaching we could be well on our way.

Bart Scott made his name in Baltimore, and now someone else is going to pay him for that. And yes he's a good player, but Baltimore got the best tread. I think the prudent thing is to see what we can come out of in the draft, and then fill the remaining holes with solid mid-level NFL players that fit the system. Not go into the draft thinking ... oh we can pass up the linebacker if we need to and then just sign Bart Scott

Zombo

You actually get it!! Why do ALL fans of every Team in the NFL think over-paying for some high priced FA is going to fix their Team's problems .Build through the draft and re-sign your own ,,,fill in with role players as needed via Free Agency.That's how you build consistancy and build a winner ..Bart Scott is going to get some serious cash ..his impact will not back up his contact IMO no matter where he goes ..Draft your Defense ..The Brown's are more than one or two players away on that side of the ball

@dencyguy said:

I'm sure that's the reason the Browns haven't been able to beat the Steelers.

Dan Rooney: (Whispering into the phone) Alright, what do you have for me?

BDT (Browns Deep Throat): (Looks around furtively, then whispers into the phone) You're going to want to pay me double for this one!

Rooney: Sounds good...as long as we win, I'll take care of you.

BDT: See that you do; remember that those two wins every year are what gives you guys homefield advantage.

Rooney: Enough talk--give me the details. What's the gameplan? What are the team's weaknesses?

BDT: Okay, here we go...the team sucks.

Rooney: What? I watch Sunday Countdown, and I could have told you that.

BDT: Yeah, but they only tell you part of the story...this team sucks in ways that would blow your mind. Players, coaches, front office, they all suck.

Rooney: I said details! I'm not paying you to explain the team in terms that the mouth-breathingest message board troll could understand!

BDT: Okay, here are some details. Follow the money.

Rooney: What?!

BDT: Follow the money...to a #2 receiver who can only run on days that don't have a "y" in them...or to a DE who has been playing two-hand touch since the exhibition games, and a #1 pick LB who gets a sack once every four games or so.

Rooney: (Cautiously) Alright, tell me more...

BDT: Okay, you wanted gameplan details, here are some. The coach is trying to keep it quiet, but he's planning on calling a timeout to decide whether or not it's a good idea to challenge calls, then challenging them anyway. If the team is within thirty points in the fourth quarter, get ready for field goals. Oh, and if Roethlisberger is looking for a leg up, here's a hint about our defensive strategy: they're planning on not rushing the QB, leaving the middle of the field wide open to any and all receivers, and they're putting Terry Cousins out there.

Rooney: Good, good...you're starting to earn your money now. What about the offense?

BDT: Even though Jamal Lewis is averaging about a yard per carry, expect to see him early and often. Don't expect to see the other RBs. If Edwards gets thrown the ball, he's working on some new ways of dropping it--pretty scary stuff. Winslow is someone you should be concerned about, but his arm falls off about the third quarter of every game.

Rooney: But Quinn...what about Quinn?!

BDT: Two words, my man...screen pass.

Rooney: Screen pass?

BDT: Screen pass.

Rooney: My friend, you've outdone yourself this time. Armed with the information that we're playing a team with mediocre talent, lousy coaching, and a dysfunctional front office, we might be able to pull this one out.

BDT: I'm worried, though. What about the fans? I think they're onto me.

Rooney: The fans? The fans? You mean the people who are still pointing to a missed holding call from the 1971 exhibition season as proof of a longstanding, league-wide conspiracy to help the Steelers--with no explanation for why the league would conspire to help one team win for thirty years? With no explanation of how every single other conspiracy ever perpetrated--by individuals or government--has been exposed except this one? Trust me, you don't need to worry your pretty little head about the fans...besides, they're the ones who were caught on tape chanting "Super Bowl" at this year's Browns training camp...do you think anyone is going to take their theories seriously?

BDT: I guess you're right, Big Daddy. Oh, wait, the water on my desk is starting to ripple...I think Mangini is coming! I have to go!

(Click)

Rooney: (To himself) Fools, they'll never know...wait a minute, why am I wasting money bribing a guy who works for a team the Steelers could beat with their JV team? I knew I should have put a plant in the Patriots' offices instead! Oh, well, back to figuring out how to rig the coin toss for the Super Bowl...

Dennis

Classic