@neweradawg said:

This is the only town where the #2 is always "DA MAN"

The #2 quarterback is always the most popular man on the team. The starter is popular with the fans win or tie.

@el-guapo said:

Really?

Want to look at Delhomme's numbers. He is slightly better than last year when he threw a pick once every 17.8 attempts. This year it is at one every 18.5 attempts. He has also completed less than 60% of his passes the past three seasons - and it isn't because he didn't have weapons. He had one of the best receivers in the league AND one of the top two or three rushing attacks in the league. They stacked the box against him and he still couldn't complete passes.

I am aware of Delhomme's performance last season and I am not saying that he will be great this season -- although I hope he is successful. I am a firm beliver in Hillis. The point I was trying to make is that backs will fumble and quarterbacks will throw interceptions. Since those things will occur, one game in this season is not reason to bench someone.

IMHO Hillis got the start against the Bucss because Harrison had a case of dropsies toward the end of the preseason games. It would not surprise me if Harrison got the start this week -- nor do I worry about it if he does. It's a natural part of the game.

Looking at the box score, it appears that Mangini is truly running a two-man rotation at that running back slot. Both Hillis and Harrison had 9 carries. Hillis did have a 4 to 1 margin in receiving.

I know Hillis will be ok. I don't know how Delhomme will do, but like I said before, I hope he is successful. It looks like we will get to see what Wallace can do this week.

@thesmartkid said:

Delhomme should be benched, he suc*s too

him and hillis are both terrible

Jerk, you are wearing out your welcome fast. Yammer Yammer Yammer. You really need to go home for a diaper change and come back AFTER you learn something - anything - about football.

You're down on Hillis because he fumbled. Would you please give me a list of rb's who have gone a season without any fumbles.

You are dissing Delhomme for 2 interceptions and a fumble. Granted that's not good, but would you please provide me a list of qb's who have gone a season with no fumbles or interceptions.

I'll wait for the lists. I'm sure you have them right at hand.

Harrison DID have a fumble problem in preseason.

Harrison put up some absolutely awesome numbers the oast four games of last season -- not the least of which was approximately 30 carries per game. And you want him to carry the ball that much for at least 18 games? Ver unrealistic!

I don't understand your hatred for Hillis. He fumbled twice in a game. He manned up and took the heat for those fumbles. What else do you want him to do? Come apologize to you personally? You are acting like he fumbled just to ruin your day. I promise, he did not seek you out personally.

While you are worshipping at the shrine of Jerome, how will YOU respond if Harrison were revisited by the fufmble bug? Are you going to throw him under the bus? They are both on the team. Why do you have to hate one and worship the other?

@slowburn said:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/cleveland-browns/09000d5d81a7b146

he carries the ball too low.....leaves a larger sweet spot for d...Lesser teams have zero tolerence for TO's.......I think he will see limited action versus KC and rightfully so

Thanks, coach. We were all wondering what the problem was. We just didn't know where you were to give us the answer, But, if you are correct and Hillis is sitting, that is something you two will have in common. You won;t be playing and Holmgren and Mangini have not requested nor accepted your analysis,

@thesmartkid said:

hillis is horrible. jerome is a very good back that sits too much on the f*ckn bench! why is he number one on the depthchart and only getting 9 carries? thats shows how f*cking bad the browns are and their coaching staff. jerome is great hillis suc*s

Your sig certainly does not fit what you write. The main thing is that we don't have to make a choice between Hillis and Harrison -- we've got them both. The only decision to be made is when to use which one. Now, go home, take your bottle, and don't come back until you are a big boy and really know what you are talking about.

Check Hillis' numbers. He has fumbled once in the previous two years. I would definitely say that today's fumble was an abberation.

When you hear/see where a Denver fan talks about Hillis' great rookie year but how badly he messed up in 2009, just consider the source. They are showing their ignorance. For one thing, the HC never gave him a chance to play, so how could he do so much harm? They obviously don't know anything about football.

When Hillis fumbles, IMO you can just say that you saw history happen.

Hillis

I like Hammering Hog. (If this name were chosen, he would probably prefer Hammerin' Hawg, just to feel at home.)

One of the most popular names on the Denver boards is "Rhino."

I sure wish we could sign Nathan Vasher (Chargers) for CB strength and Darryl Stokely (Denver) to give us more strength at receiver. He is a great slot man.

@cambridgeho said:

First off I never said anything in my post about not liking the depth of our RBs. Second, Harrison is unrestricted next year and he will most likley look for a fresh start. You are telling me that if Harrison keeps fumbling and gets benched that you will be perfectly happy with Hills and unproven Davis, or if one gets injured. I love Hillis but he dont have much speed, and I really dont want him gettig the shit beat out of him his first year. I dont trust Davis yet, he hasnt really got a starters chance either. Barber is proven and would be a damn stud behind our line. Also I thought this was an uncapped year, so they could do that gauranteed money thing up front.

Have you looked at the rushing totals per game for the Cowboys during this preseason? One game they had a total of 13 net yards. Not all of that is Barber's fault, but he was one of the running backs in that game. Do you think Barber would be willing to go to ANY team where he would not be the feature back? I don;t think he's worth it for the intangibles he would bring.

If we have what we need for this season, let's get on with it and worrry during the offseason about what we need to do next year.

I don't think McCoy is in a bad situation at all. I believe he is in a situation where he can learn and gain more knowledge this year than Clausen. He will be prepared when (not if) his time comes. I really don't care how far he throws tha ball. I've seen him throw long in college, so that is a non-issue for me. Besides, JaMarcus Russell could throw the ball a mile and a half, but to what success?

On one occaision in Denver, Hillis was asked what position he would like to play. His response was quarterback. He said that he could throw the ball farther than anyone else on the team. He just didn't know where it was going. Colt knows where his passes are going.

When McCoy plays his game, he uses the passing game to make yards and score TD's. But he also uses his passes for ball control. He had a poor running game at Texas, so he used his passing game to fill that void.

This is not the first time Suh has played the bully role. Those of you who saw the way he tackled McCoy in the Texas - Nebraska game last fall might remember what I am talking about. When I saw how he took down Delhomme down, I just thought, "I've seen this before."

For all the stuff that has been said about this incident, I was watching the NFL netwoerk tonight and saw the play again. I had not previously realized that the throw down came AFTER bpth of Delhomme's knees were on the ground. He actually threw Delhomme to the ground when Jake was in a kneeling position, having already been tackled by Suh.

Having seen the real extent of Suh's actions, I have how moved from being uneasy about Suh's actions to whatever has been done by the league is a mere pittance of what should have been done.

@sj_browns said:

+1

jerome also did what he did last season with historically low passing attempts from his qbs and 8-9 men in the box regularly. i guess some people want to throw jerome under the bus now and try to downplay what he achieved last season because of some out of character fumbles in this years preseason. he fumbled once in the st lou game. the other "fumble" in that game wasn't even a real fumble because he was down by contact. in the game vs the lions, he didn't fumble the ball, the ball was punched out by the defenders knee. that's more of a freak incident than a jerome fumble.

I thought Harrison played pretty well against the Lions. But, I'm afraid that his fumbles are really fumbles. According to the box score for the Rams game, J. Harrison fumbled once, losing none. The box score for the game against Detroit also shows J. Harrison with one fumble and one fumble lost.

It is really ironic that Hillis has a blocker like Vickers leading for him, when he did the same thing for McFadden and Jones at AR. For 2010 -- and hopefuilly much longer -- Hillis is doing well running behind Vickers.

@canton-mike said:

Two questions regarding Hillis:

1) Where is his cape?

2) Who's the idiot in Denver who will lose their job over letting this guy get away?

He was a shining star in this loss. He & Vickers are a DEVASTATING tandem in short yardage! Harrison, with his fumbling, just made it easy for Hardesty (given good health) & Hillis to relegate him to splinters as a bench player. No big deal to me. I am still not sold on Harrison & if Hardesty can stay healthy, I don't think it will take long to establish he & Hillis as your top backs. In fact, Hillis (with his pass catching ability) may just be our feature back. The guy is a smash mouth, blue collar, nasty monster!!!

Mike

The idiot -- and boy did you get that descriptor right -- who let Hillis get away was HC Josh McDaniels (commonly known among Denver fans as McDummy). After Hillis had a year in 2008 in which he had a 100-yard rushing game (against Mangini's Jets) and a 100-yard receiving game against Miami, and led the Broncos in rushing, the new HC sat him on the bench in 2009 and left him there to rot. No one knows why. Fans called for Hillis to be used, but to no avail. So, the HC left him on the bench in favor of a faux-running back who had 27% of his carries for 1 yard or less and had only two carries for more than 20 yards.

The same coach let Marshall go to the Dolphins and Sheffler go to the Lions. He will not lose his job over letting any of them go. He will probably lose it for the people he brought in to replace them sooner or later.

@curious said:

The last thing I would ever want to do is get rid of McDaniels. I have agreed with almost all of his decisions since he was hired. And I really just can't stop laughing when I hear Browns fans think that Delhomme will be a good QB in Cleveland. He is just the definition of awful. And I'll pop back onto this thread Oct. 1 and we'll see how our teams compare if that's what you really want. Delhomme will probably have been benched by then, but we'll see.

But to all the legitimate responses I've gotten, thank you. I'm glad to hear he's doing well, how you feel about him is how we felt about him his rookie year.

How long do you seriously give McD before he is shown the door? He is 2-8 in his last 10 games. Will he be okay if he goes 8-8 and misses the playoffs again?

Delhomme's history before last year has been good. We are banking that last year was a fluke. Thus far, the gamble is paying off well.

We'll see how things go on October 1. I wonder what kind of noise will erupt out there when Hillis contributes one of his smash-mouth carries. If the Denver defense does not totally stop Hillis, the Denver fans who thought Hillis should have gotten playing time in '09 will come from all directions and ask continuously why he let Hillis go.

@curious said:

Moreno averaged 4.3 YPC over the first 12 games of the season. Then he hit the rookie wall, finishing poorly to end with a 3.8 YPC. It's pretty obvious that's what happened. I don't think you understood my point about Payton and Tomlinson. They both had poor YPC their rookie years and ended up being two of the best players at their position ever. I never said that Knowshon was or ever will be as good as either of them. But he will be a damn good player and is certainly better than Jerome Harrison.

And do you really think you're that much better than last year? Your QB is Jake Delhomme. I live in South Carolina, I watched his career with the Panthers. The guy is horrible. Unless you pull a Steve Smith out of thin air for him to throw ducks up and let him make a play, he won't ever impress anyone.

4.3 YPC in '09? Look at Hillis' 5.0 in '08. Cleveland is going to see what Denver could have had in .09, '10 ,'11, ... . Believe me, you really don't want to get into a stats war of Hillis vs Moreno. It would be a far more productive use of your time to determine how to get rid of your HC --- quick (and you might want to throw in your GM, too). Or you could continue with your head buried in the sand. Your choice.

Denver fans are really going to be upset when they see Hillis' performances in '10 and realize that's what they could have had.

BTW, do I really think we are that much better than last year? Yep! and why, you might ask? Because of Delhomme and Hillis.

You might want to watch Hillis and Delhomme when the Broncos' season goes south about Oct 1. I can't wait to hear your excuses then.

@curious said:

You seem to have quite the hate for McDaniels and Denver for a Browns fan. Yeah, Knowshon hit the rookie wall the last 4 games of the season, and averaged 3.8 yards per carry last year. Walter Payton averaged 3.5 YPC as a rookie. LT averaged 3.6 YPC as a rookie. Knowshon will be much improved in his second year with an improved interior offensive line. Zane Beadles and J.D. Walton replace the undersized and overaged Ben Hamilton and Casey Wiegmann, which will help him get the tough yards easier.

BTW, you probably shouldn't rag on Josh McDaniels too much when his team curb-stomped the Browns 26-7 last year. Just sayin.

Yeah, the Broncos beat last years Browns, but this year's Browns are a much improved team over that one.

Moreno did not hit the rookie wall the last four games -- he hit it before game 1 and never recovered. I think you are being pretty arrogant to list his performance with Walter Payton and LT' He never kept offensive coordinators awakem game-planning how to stop Moreno. IMHO he will not be much more than he showed last season. He will certainly never move into the company of LT and Walter Payton.

@curious said:

First off, I am a Denver Broncos fan. Peyton Hillis' rookie year was extremely impressive, and many fans including myself thought he would grow into a star RB. Then, last year rolled around. Every opportunity he got, he screwed up. Whenever he was on the field, he committed a penalty, missed a block, or dropped a ball. I couldn't have been happier to get rid of him.

My question to all of you, is how is he looking? I've heard a couple good things, which is why I came by to ask. Do you think he will get a good amount of touches in the regular season?

Everytime he got a chance? That's rich. He never got a chance. He only got one chance to carry the ball to any extent -- in 4th quarter garbage time against KC. I posted then that we probably wouldn't see anymore of Hillis because he performed too well and showed up Joshie McDaniels and NO SHOW Moreno. And I was right. McDaniels was more committed to letting Moreno have carries than he was about winning. The only ones who did drop the ball for the Broncos last season were Moreno and McDaniels.

Whenever he was on the field:

1) He committed a penalty? On one punt return he had a penalty for a block in the back.

2) Missed a block? Never saw him miss one. NO-SHOW Moreno may have failed to follow the block (which happened a lot!!)

3) Dropped the ball? Fumbled one kickoff. No fumbles from the RB or FB position. Moreno led the team in fumbles.

And you are glad to get rid of him so you could keep the 12th pick of round 1 in 2009 who averaged less than 4 yards per carry, had only two carries for more than 20 yards for the season, had no 100 yard games (despite 2 games against Oakland and 2 games against KC) for the season, led the team in fumbles, and who gained 1 yard or less on 27% of his carries for the season? It would have been a better choice for Joshie McD if Moreno had been the 1st choice of the 12th round instead of the 12th choice of the 1st round. If you think Denver got the top end of the deal, it doesn't take much to impress you.

BEST or BUST? Denver chose to keep its Bust and send one of its Best to the Browns.