@the-gipper said:

Well, the "hooliganism" of English soccer fans is well renowned. I am not sure it is a thing to be proud for some of these guys, even though they may think it is. They may as well wear a sign around their necks saying "I'm a F****ing Idiot". Fair to say?

Fair to say ? yes most certainly. Can you say you've never been to a sporting event where there was a list of candidates present who would qualify for that same sign ? How much provocation from rivals would it take to start a mass fight at say a college game ?

The hooligan era was largely in the late 70's and 80's, while fights between fans were common place between fans, prior to the 70's it was I would imagine, similar to a fight on the ice between players at a hockey game. It would be a "good old scrap" guaranteed of no weapons just punches, I've even witnessed cops get involved in punch ups, with shouts of come on then, no arrests. Fights would run their course and be brief, being not much more than a talking point for the fans.

During the late 70's and 80's it became far more organized. A minority of fans would organize fights with fans of other teams. in city centre's hours before a game, during a game or hours after the game was over. All clubs had an element of these fans and today's equivalents I guess would be fight clubs. Because of close proximity, think of 90 teams within one state, at each game there is usually several thousand supporters of the away side. The away games still are a great time to travel to different cities in large numbers drinking from start to finish and are generally a bachelor weekend every other week. The organizers of the fghts would take advantage of the large number of drunken young males and in pubs before games would start rumours of the other teams fans are on their way. The clashes that followed are well documented.

Since the 80's cops have used cctv placed up to 5 miles around stadiums, computer facial recognition systems, undercover intelligence and early morning swat team raids to break the hooligan element. The rivalry between clubs like Villa and Birmingham are from a far more deep seated hatred of each other. Being only a short distance away from each other travelling to each others ground is not an obstacle, and so there a large numbers of both sets of supporters travelling to an away game. Unlike the lets go the game and have a fight and then go for a beer afterwards, the Villa - B'ham rivalry does not go away in between games, going for a quiet lunchtime drink and venturing into the wrong pub, being recognized as a supporter of the rival team can lead to a very dangerous situation.

Paul Faulkner's intended role must be the equivalent of the club president. However I guess both Randy and PF have been thrown in at the deep end and have had to get involved in football matters. They have access to "advisors" and hopefully things will work out and Randy will be proven right (He as now gone ahead and appointed McCleish as manager, but he made sure he'd left the country before it was announced).

When RL first took over the club he had a manager in place who ran the football side of things, in fact true to tradition the manager insisted on running the club his way, with an owner/chairman writing the checks or not. Since that manager quit the club the selection methods the club are employing and perhaps lack of contacts within English football that is under fire. I wonder if RL may be looking to create a position at Villa for a Tom Heckert equivalent. The problem that he will encounter is this is the "director of football" position used in european clubs, has been tried in England but met with huge resistance by English managers who see it as interfering with their jobs and fans in turn see it as moving away from the tradition of the English game.

@hoorta said:

Hey Z you don't have to like it- just try to understand it- slow motion hockey.

And after watching some of the clips- I proclaim that baseball is pretty gay too. Must take drugs to up home run count.

Some pu$$y catcher's agent is whining because a guy slid into him too hard? How about Buckner losing the World Series flubbing a ball with a mistake that pee-wee league kids are taught to avoid?

PS I'm all for taking flares and baseball bats to Browns Steelers games.

I can watch baseball no problem, however I cannot understand why it would be used to point out how slow soccer is !!!! Really ? I mean lets throw the ball to first base, then lets fake that we're throwing it to first base...epeat several times then pitch a foul ball, game interrupted while the coach walks into the field and mimicks coaching a 2nd grader by telling him what he's doing wrong, a decent game ? Yes I'm warming to it but faster than soccer ? No

@the-gipper said:

OK, but remember, it was the French that helped us defeat Britain and gain our independence.

Think about it though: I don't believe the US has ever fought a war against the French. We have had wars with most other major European countries: Britain twice. Spain, Italy, Germany twice, Austria/Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, even a cold war with Russia.

Though, apparently there was some kind of "Quasi-War", undeclared between the US and France from 1798-1800 over French Privateers attacking American shipping. Apparently Revolutionary France was angry that the US declared its neutrality in it conflict with Britain.

They were also angry that the US didn't repay its monetary debt to France from the American Revolution. Apparently the US claimed it owed the government of the French Royal Crown that had been deposed, not the new French Revolutionary government. There were really only a few minor skirmishes that occurred in this "war", mainly over French ships attacking merchant vessels and attempting to impress US citizens into its navy. The French would grab these ships, and the US would try to grab them back. The whole "conflict" ended when Napolean came to power and made peace with the US.

So you would choose the French to have your back ?

Zombo said:

They know we're just xxxxing with them. It's mid-June and there's a lockout ... we're getting antsy.

Besides we don't include the English as "Euro Sofites", the Limeys have proven their metal over and over, they are tough SOBs and their soccer league is the best.

Zombo

--that said, soccer is gay.

We do know you're xxxxing with us and it's all good. I've had a good laugh at most the comments on here.

As for everybody hates the Americans !!! That's just not true I mean there are countries around the world that will support and back an America under attack with their last breath as patriotically as Americans themselves. There's England and then there's ........ well England !

The ceo/president that Randy leaves running the club is Paul Faulkner, previous background is that he held some kinda position with mbna.

Zombo said:

Lerner made a bit of a strange selection when chose Eric Mangini as head coach, the story goes that one of the reporters said that Randy perked up at a press conference when he was told Mangini was fired, then he went out and hired him when there were more "savory" guys available. He also hired a guy to be GM that was gone in 6 months which left the team rudderless with only poor Mangini in charge. Mangini is a good enough football guy, but he had no chance. Then, finally, Lerner signed Mike Holmgren as President and to handle all football operations, including hires, and Lerner goes off to England and meddles with your soccer team instead. Best thing Lerner ever did was hand the reigns over to Holmgren and get out of the way. He's got deep pockets (thanks to Daddy), but he's not much of an administrator.

He does seem to be a loyal guy that cares about the fans though.

Zombo

I live in hope then that he's on a learning curve at the Villa. He has the equivalent of club president he leaves to run the club who a lot of fans are laying the blame on. He's considered an American pr guy with no knowledge of "soccer" (by Villa fans) who I guess is a guy Randy trusts. Appreciate all the replies and good luck to The Browns from The Limeys

Zombo said:

Ya, well, soccer's gay.

Zombo

still lmao.

Not wanting a debate on football versus american football, it's a cultural thing. Just seriously wondering whether as an owner of the Browns Randy has encountered or if such appointment was made would encounter a hostile backlash. Don't get me wrong by the way, I would still say that Randy has the backing of the majority of supporters, they just think he's temporarily gone insane

Zombo said:

Soccer's a good game for girls. Men have come up with much more hardcore, interesting games which is why soccer fails in America and Canada but is all the rave in Euro-soft counties.

I'm going to watch Hockey tonight and I guarantee you that no one will flop around like a school girl if someone accidently touches them.

Then I'm going to wait for football season where getting hammered is part of the game and nobody whines about it.

Enjoy your soccer.

Z

1. You're right there are more hardcore games than soccer. Rugby for example, padding for protection free zone, where in England "soccer" and rugby are played by many of the same people at a non professional level.

English football aka soccer unfortunately does have an element of euro softies attempting to ruin the games with theatrical dives and play acting. With satellite tv this is what the USA audience sees, probably worth a mention though that the english game has been built on tha back of players with nicknames such as "bites ya legs hunter" "chopper harris" and a descriptions "he wasn't born they got him from a rock quarry"

I don't recall any of those softies going on strike cos lifes not fair waaaah

@the-gipper said:

Most of what is in your link is esoteric to what AV fans think about the potential choice of who runs their franchise, which quite frankly, nearly all Browns fans could give a cabbage fart about.

Likewise I suppose most AV fans could give a rat's ass who the HC of the Cleveland Browns is.

The issue is Randy Lerner's ownership/management style. We, here, believe that Randy has finally learned to put real professionals in control of his football team and to get the hell out of the way and just write the checks.

Whether or not he has applied that same lesson learned to his futbol team, we will have to rely on you to give your opinion for that.

The other thing I read out of this is that Lerner may be about to make a move that would be tantamount to Lerner hiring Bill Cowher as the Head Coach of the Browns. Unlike your folks opinion of this "McLeish", we here may have seen the hiring of Cowher with much more approval, since, after all, he played for the Browns and coached for the Browns before being "tapped" by the Pittsburgh Steelers to be their HC. And during Cowher's tenure with the Steelers he always had his team in contention for a title, even winning the Super Bowl once.

A fair analogy?.

Not sure how fierce the rivalry is with the Steelers. One major difference in English football that Randy will not be accustomed to is the rivalry of teams within the same city. While for a minute ignoring the in depth analysis of "soccer is gay" I wonder what parallels can be drawn in how Randy operates and in giving a brief idea of what is happening across the pond, invite discussion on Randy's methods.

Things all seemed to be going well at Villa until last year when his head coach decided that Randy wasn't writing enough checks and quit days before the season. Randy eventually appointed a coach with a trophy winning background but with questionable medical (cardiac) history. Before the seasons end, the hc suffered further heart problems and was forced to retire. While out of season Randy is now about to risk alienating supporters.

Th willingness to alienate fans is what has surprised me. While Randy seems impressed with this coach, his record is nothing short of appalling. The rivalry in question is not something that can easily be converted into text. Are there games that tailgating in Cleveland would be prohibited by police ? Games that would be played only on a sunday morning to ensure enough police be able to be present ? As mentioned this is a rivalry that divides the same city, but also divides families, work/ school colleagues with an absolute hatred, on match day there is no banter, just tribal war parties.

So when Bill Cowher was appointed how was the reception and do you think Randy is expecting things to follow a similar course ?

My link

Randy Lerner is expected to name a new manager who was allegedly

'tapped up" from Aston Villa's fiercest rivals.