Starting to go off the football track, the guy that started the thread is nothing but a troll, so let's end this. Mik ... I'm not sure what rock you were passed out under this Summer, but here it the original thread and how it developed: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=40905&hl=crowell&page=6 I was the first to call for his head. But at some point you had to feel that he had sincerely done enough, or your just going to hate him the rest of his career. Free to choose and discuss either. But do it in the original thread, this OP doesn't deserve our attention. Zombo