PFF ranks Baker Mayfield tenth best QB heading into 2021

Tour2ma

@tiamat63 said:

Doesn't factor into this particular discussion.

You say that as if it matters...

Tour2ma

@bob806 said:

I still say Kelly was over rated. Sugar huddle made him.

K-gun, baby...

Many have forgotten that Jim was a star for the Houston Gamblers in the USFL... shit league, but with some very good teams including Houston's.

The Gamblers employed the "Run n shoot" Offense. As much as any it was the forerunner to the "passing league" we enjoy(?) today.

tiamat63

@tour2ma said:

You say that as if it matters...

I'm at an inherent disadvantage in debates from my side - I have a fundamental need to make sense.

Although, to his credit, Gip seems to have acknowledged it and gone with more apt comparisons in the last few posts.

calfoxwc

@tour2ma said:

Marino started only 9 games his rookie year... and appeared in only 2 others.

So.... no...

FYI.... the other 6 'Fins starts were divided between Woodley (5) and Don Strock (2).

So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Baker started with a non-playoff team. With crap coaching. Marino had Don Shula. Baker had...well...you know. Dan Marino went to a superbowl team with a great legendary coach.

So..................yes.?

Miami Dolphins (2) (AFC) (7–2)	Washington Redskins (1) (NFC) (8–1)
17	27

The Gipper

@tiamat63 said:

I'm at an inherent disadvantage in debates from my side - I have a fundamental need to make sense.

Although, to his credit, Gip seems to have acknowledged it and gone with more apt comparisons in the last few posts.

What I acknowledge is that you seem to have wanted to completely narrow the focus of the conversation to a single narrow statistic....that we both agree was bogus....and didn't make sense. I acknowledge that I attempted to bring some sense into the discussion by providing a much wider scope/point of view to the subject of: What QBs did really well in their early careers.

Don't you think that topic requires a much wider lens?

Bob806

@tour2ma said:

K-gun, baby...

Many have forgotten that Jim was a star for the Houston Gamblers in the USFL... shit league, but with some very good teams including Houston's.

The Gamblers employed the "Run n shoot" Offense. As much as any it was the forerunner to the "passing league" we enjoy(?) today.

I didn't forget lol.

I also didn't forget Kelly throwing his team mates under the bus after Super Bowls.

I'm not saying he stunk. I just don't agree that he was a 1st ballot HOFer.

Tour2ma

I don't remember "the bus" part, but...

Kelly was a big part of the Bills making it into 4 straight SuperBowls...

I'm not sure there's a more impressive run in league history.

When I think about how it had to have gotten exponentially harder to to get back up after each additional SB setback, it boggles my mind.

SdBacker80

@tour2ma said:

I don't remember "the bus" part, but...

Kelly was a big part of the Bills making it into 4 straight SuperBowls...

I'm not sure there's a more impressive run in league history.

When I think about how it had to have gotten exponentially harder to to get back up after each additional SB setback, it boggles my mind.

The Bills ran into buzz saws in my opinion Redskins and the Cowboys 93-94. Their best effort wasn’t pulling off those games.

And I’m Not even including The Giants in 91 who knocked off the 9ers in the NFC Championship game.

If they would have come of age later say the Late 90s different story and I think their squad handles the Packers, Falcons in the late 90s.

gumby73

PFF's 2021 NFL position rankings list is out...

This link will take you to the Defensive Lines 1st... than with a easy click, towards the top of the link..All player positions will be ranked.. Top 32 teams or Players... (early)

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-32-nfl-defensive-line-units-entering-2021-season

gumby73

So we PFF rank as follows.... <<< Yes! I've ordered this lid...

QB = Baker Mayfield #10

RB = Nick Chubb #4 and Kareem Hunt #10

TE = Austin Hooper #17

OT = Jack Conklin #12

OG = Joel Bitonio #4 and Wyatt Teller #9

C = JC Tretter #4

DT = none

Edge = Myles Garrett #4 and J. Clowney #20

LB = none

Slot Corner = Troy Hill #5

Outside Corner = Denzel Ward #8

Safety = John Johnson #3 and Ronnie Harrison #30

Team Secondary Unit = #3

Team Interior Defense = #11

Team Offensive line = # 1

PFF Power Rankings = #8

Total Wins = 10.5

RB Unit = # 1

Receiving Unit = #13

Head Coaching = #7

Pff's Top 50 = #25-Myles Garrett #37-Nick Chubb #41-John Johnson III

calfoxwc

@tour2ma said:

Marino started only 9 games his rookie year... and appeared in only 2 others.

So.... no...

..

FYI.... the other 6 'Fins starts were divided between Woodley (5) and Don Strock (2).

(SO, given my response below, I did have a good point, yes?

So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Baker started with a non-playoff team. With crap coaching. Marino had Don Shula. Baker had...well...you know. Dan Marino went to a superbowl team with a great legendary coach.

So..................yes.?

Miami Dolphins (2) (AFC) (7–2)	Washington Redskins (1) (NFC) (8–1)
17	27

The Gipper

@calfoxwc said:

So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!. Baker started with a non-playoff team. With crap coaching. Marino had Don Shula. Baker had...well...you know. Dan Marino went to a superbowl team with a great legendary coach.

So..................yes.?

Miami Dolphins (2)
(AFC)
(7–2) Washington Redskins (1)
(NFC)
(8–1)
17 27

As you note, Marino's team went to the Super Bowl the season before they drafted him. Baker's team went 0-16 the year before they drafted him. Marino went to play for Don Shula, the winningest coach in NFL history. Baker went to play for Hue Jackson, who has he worst losing record in NFL history........save one guy who was a team owner who didn't want to fire himself.

Is that the disparity you are talking about?

Tour2ma

@calfoxwc said:

(SO, given my response below, I did have a good point, yes?

@calfoxwc said:

So, Marino started his career in 1983. Drafted by the Dolphins in April. In 1983 January, the Dolphins were in Superbowl XV!!.

Well...

Given that Marino was drafted in April, I doubt that he played in MIA's SB appearance 3 months earlier...

So there's that...

So... no...

calfoxwc

@tour2ma said:

Well...

Given that Marino was drafted in April, I doubt that he played in MIA's SB appearance 3 months earlier...

So there's that...

So... no...

oh, nice try. lol

gumby73

@gumby73 said:

So we PFF rank as follows.... <<< Yes! I've ordered this lid...

QB = Baker Mayfield #10

RB = Nick Chubb #4 and Kareem Hunt #10

TE = Austin Hooper #17

OT = Jack Conklin #12

OG = Joel Bitonio #4 and Wyatt Teller #9

C = JC Tretter #4

DT = none

Edge = Myles Garrett #4 and J. Clowney #20

LB = none

Slot Corner = Troy Hill #5

Outside Corner = Denzel Ward #8

Safety = John Johnson #3 and Ronnie Harrison #30

Team Offensive line = # 1

PFF Power Rankings = #8

Total Wins = 10.5

RB Unit = # 1

Head Coaching = #7

Happy Friday Gents !

Gotta ask....?

Receiving Unit = Ranked #13*------ This feels like we got low balled by the writer? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-nfl-receiving-corps-ahead-of-the-2021-season

lmo..Were somewhere in that Top #5 in my thoughts...

Team Secondary Unit = Ranked #3*------ This seems high for a Joe Woods rebuild? Don't it? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-32-nfl-secondaries-entering-2021-season

I might see close to 7th to 10'ish here?... @tiamat63 Would you toss your early money on, Were..."Not a top 5 Secondary Unit" ?

Man! There's a ton of shake ups in personal to these back-end defenses...

Edit-- Heck! I think John Johnson might disagree with me already...

https://www.brownszone.com/2021/06/10/john-johnson-iii-believes-coordinator-joe-exotic-woods-has-plenty-up-his-sleeve-defense-has-talent-to-be-nfls-best/

tiamat63

@gumby73 said:

Happy Friday Gents !

Gotta ask....?

Receiving Unit = Ranked #13*------ This feels like we got low balled by the writer? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-all-nfl-receiving-corps-ahead-of-the-2021-season

lmo..Were somewhere in that Top #5 in my thoughts...

Team Secondary Unit = Ranked #3*------ This seems high for a Joe Woods rebuild? Don't it? https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-ranking-32-nfl-secondaries-entering-2021-season

I might see close to 7th to 10'ish here?... @tiamat63 Would you toss your early money on, Were..."Not a top 5 Secondary Unit" ?

Man! There's a ton of shake ups in personal to these back-end defenses...

Edit-- Heck! I think John Johnson might disagree with me already...

https://www.brownszone.com/2021/06/10/john-johnson-iii-believes-coordinator-joe-exotic-woods-has-plenty-up-his-sleeve-defense-has-talent-to-be-nfls-best/

There's a certain amount of faith put on paper here with the secondary personnel. But it's also reinforced by the hope that our pass rush is more consistent outside of just Myles.

Denzel, Hill, Greedy and Newsome could be a fine cornerback room health permitting. JJ3, Harrison & if Delpit also stays healthy, is another quality room. While they still lack an eraser at center field (IMHO, unless Delpit grows into that role) there are no glaring weaknesses at DB.

They could finish the year to top 5, sure.

gumby73

@tiamat63 said:

Denzel, Hill, Greedy and Newsome could be a fine cornerback room health permitting. JJ3, Harrison & if Delpit also stays healthy, is another quality room.

I love the chance of this groups high ceiling.... Adding JOK's coverage toughness... could walk this unit up to the elite level...I'm hoping it's time for Travis Kelce to start losing a step...

We won't have to wait long...

Man... I just want to get to week 1 Healthy...

SdBacker80

Great Secondaries typically are aided by a great pass rush. You can Chicken vs. Egg it all you want you can talk about coverage sacks but when you speed the QB clock up and you put 320 pound dudes in his lap you can make a lot of DBs and Safeties look good and this is a much better group...God willing they stay healthy.

In regard to coverage sacks those aren’t happening often with Tyreke Hill and Kelce flanking wide.

Next year will be no different. Myles health, Clowneys health and resurgence, Takks new found focus, the men in the middle if they can get it done that back end works better.

11-5 and a playoff win was very enjoyable last year....but by far the most aggravating issue all last year was blitzing 4 and watching our slow secondary and backers wilt in coverage when they had to chase and roam the field for an extra 2-3 seconds.

tiamat63

@sdbacker80 said:

Great Secondaries typically are aided by a great pass rush. You can Chicken vs. Egg it all you want you can talk about coverage sacks but when you speed the QB clock up and you put 320 pound dudes in his lap you can make a lot of DBs and Safeties look good and this is a much better group...God willing they stay healthy.

In regard to coverage sacks those aren’t happening often with Tyreke Hill and Kelce flanking wide.

Next year will be no different. Myles health, Clowneys health and resurgence, Takks new found focus, the men in the middle if they can get it done that back end works better.

11-5 and a playoff win was very enjoyable last year....but by far the most aggravating issue all last year was blitzing 4 and watching our slow secondary and backers wilt in coverage when they had to chase and roam the field for an extra 2-3 seconds.

Good news is, when you're facing an oline with a shitty right side, you really don't need coverage sacks. The pressure just tends to get there.

calfoxwc

@tiamat63 said:

Good news is, when you're facing an oline with a shitty right side, you really don't need coverage sacks. The pressure just tends to get there.

Watching opposing rbs try to figure out which side to try to block should be fun. ..."Garrett" or... "Clowney" ....