Camp Battles / Browns Training Camp 2021

gumby73

@gumby73 said:

6/29 edit-- Bold cut down thoughts.. https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-players-who-could-be-cut

1)Mack Wilson

2.Porter Gustin

3.De'Ernest Johnson

4. JoJo Natson

@tour2ma said:

Browns Roster: 5 veterans who could be pushed off roster by 2021 draft picks

5. Mack Wilson - article says he became a "fan favorite"... ... otherwise it's a good read.

4. Hodge - return an OBJ, draft a Schwartz... doesn't leave much room.

3. Redwine - Safety room got crowded fast as well...

2. D'Ernest - with 90+% of the work going to two guys and a draft pick backing them up, the writing is on the proverbial wall.

1. Malcolm Smith - only real surprise name, but when JOK develops he becomes expendable... nice mid-season trade candidate for draft pick.

Additional Battle Edits-- https://factoryofsadness.co/2021/05/04/cleveland-browns-roster-battles-2021/

7-14..https://clutchpoints.com/3-cut-candidates-on-the-browns-roster-bubble-entering-2021-training-camp/ ?

7-16 solid Dan Labbe read.. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/the-browns-postion-battles-im-watching-when-training-camp-kicks-off-dan-labbe.html

7-15 Ellis Williams... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/what-position-battles-am-i-most-looking-forward-to-at-browns-training-camp-there-are-a-lot-ellis-l-williams.html

7-20 MKC https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/cleveland-browns-2021-training-camp-5-pressing-questions.html

Final 7-27-- https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Five-Cleveland-Browns-Training-Camp-Position-Battles-to-Watch-168329302/

Back at it...^^Updated Compiled Media whack hit list ^^^^

@gumby73 said:

Scott Petrak

June 3, 2021

QB: Baker Mayfield, Case Keenum Were Good!

RB: #Three or Keep 4? Demetric Felton or De'Ernest Johnson? Could Felton outdo Schwartz or Hodges in ST/WR?

FB: Andy Janovich Knowing Stef? He'll keep 1 active?

WR: Odell Beckham Jr., Jarvis Landry, KhaDarel Hodge, Rashard Higgins, Donovan Peoples-Jones, Anthony Schwartz Solid! If injuries let us

TE: #4 Stephen Carlson... Could Jordan Franks or Connor Davis steal this spot? Keeping 4's a good Stef number..I'm liking 2021 Njoku

OL: Jedrick Wills Jr., Joel Bitonio, JC Tretter, Wyatt Teller, Jack Conklin, Chris Hubbard, James Hudson, Nick Harris I'M trusting Callahan on this lineup..I will add this..Berry liked Greg Senat well enough to get him back from Dallas.I'm just hoping Hubbard can be ready off injury to get a good/honest Camp decision.. Forbes/Hance or Dunn will be a good Pre-Season game watch...

DE: Myles Garrett, Jadeveon Clowney, Takkarist McKinley, Curtis Weaver* Leaving Porter Gustin vs Joe Jackson as a good Camp watch ?

DT: Malik Jackson, Andrew Billings, Jordan Elliott, Malik McDowell,* Tommy Togiail... Good Grief Charlie Berry! It takes 4 new names to replace 1? Hello to Shelton Day/Damion 'hip2b' Square and Marvin Wilson..I'm still thinking McDowell get's a crack at a DE position?

LB: Anthony Walker, Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, Jacob Phillips, Sione Takitaki, Malcolm Smith, Tony Fields II Imo..Malcolm Smith is going nowhere but Cleveland. He might still cover better than Walker? With all the bad press Mack Wilson has gotten all off-season? Playing balls out & hair on fire ?at Camp is my Expectations...

CB: Denzel Ward, Greg Newsome II, Greedy Williams, Troy Hill, A.J. Green, M.J. Stewart Jr. I think Tia started this thread off well.. There's no bigger Camp Battle than deciding on your teams #2CB.. I'll just need someone else to surpass seeing Robert Jackson on the field, deep into depth chart..

S: John Johnson III, Grant Delpit, Ronnie Harrison Jr., Sheldrick Redwine, Elijah Benton* I'll go with..I think Redwine has a roster battle for his orange helmet life? LeCounte was drafted.. And Moffatt was also said to have a good camp last season

K: Cody Parkey.. Oh! we shall bet on having Camp legs

P: Jamie Gillan Becomes a R*FA in 2022...He'll be the guy with gunz ? wearing a browns floppy hat until his 45 minutes of fame at each camp day..What a life boys & girls..Put your video games down & Go learn how to long snap or Punt.. ?

LS: Charley Hughlett-- Old Chuck, was once the highest paid NfL Long Snapper..Not anymore! Old Charley will turn age 33 at the same time he becomes a UFA in 2023.. Liv'in Large at 1.1M$

more camp battles than originally thought..

Toy Gun to my head ... and If I had to choose 3 on the Bubble now? I'm pulling my early trigger on? ?

1. Mack Wilson

2. JoJo Natson (we drafted 2 possible gadgets.. yes neither have caught a punt..yet?

3.Shelton Redwine I'm not going to lie ? (I'm trying to open a roster spot to keep De'Ernest Johnson & or Porter Gustin) Knowing .. It's against Woods heavy safety plan..

OK! whom wants to talk me out of whom?

Tour2ma

@unsympathetic said:

Let's come up with a different phrase for Cleveland's rebuild.. Philly's process was [is] only good enough to get to a conference semifinals, and we have bigger goals than that!

Just Dutch trying to bait me (again) by displaying his lack of understanding of what we were doing in the Sashi era...

Dutch Oven

@tour2ma said:

Just Dutch trying to bait me (again) by displaying his lack of understanding of what we were doing in the Sashi era...

Actually I like saying that because DBone always gets a kick out of it.

The fact that your love of Sashi gets you all butthurt is just the cherry on top ?

And no one misunderstood what was going on during the Sashi era. They were tanking. Sashi was just too shitty to take advantage of the tank.

nickers

The tight ends are an interesting group... It's gonna be interesting to see how these kids shake out for the 21 roster...

MLD Woody

DPJ v Higgins

Though really we're taking about two different types of WRs that each will play behind Juice and OBJ based on the need (with DPJ beating out Hodges). And with DPJ having more top end potential.

MLD Woody

The Scottish Hammer vs The Kármán Line

Ibleedbrown

I’ll throw a couple oddball position battles out there that might not even be real, but l think they might be, which means they’re probably not.

The Blitzing Cornerback: l’m pretty sure Woods likes to have a defender at every position who is particularly good at rushing the passer. Last year this was the role of MJ Stewart, a guy who’s ok at doing the usual cornerback stuff but a step above most cornerbacks in rushing the passer, and l’m pretty sure he made the team because of his blitzing prowess. So l’m curious who will be competing with him for this position that l just now made up.

Fullback or H back: I’m not really sold that Stefanski truly needs a fullback or if he just needs a guy who does what a fullback does well. I feel like there were a couple games where Janivich was unavailable, and they tried to replicate his role with a tight end. I also recall a few plays where using the fullback as a lead blocker gummed up the works more than it helped. All l’m getting at is if Stef could find a guy with a little more positional flexibility who also did what a fullback does well, he would go with that guy over a traditional fullback. I’m not sure that guy is currently on the roster, but l suspect they’re working towards developing that guy.

gumby73

@nickers said:

The tight ends are an interesting group... It's gonna be interesting to see how these kids shake out for the 21 roster...

I never saw this as that close... Hooper vs. Njoku in 2020

Per Pro Football Focus (PFF), Hooper played 784 snaps in 2020. He lined up 78.5% inline and 20.4% in the slot/wide. Njoku played far fewer snaps at 461, with 77.4% lined up inline and 22.3% in the slot/wide. Very similar to Hooper’s splits. Also similar are the run/pass snap splits. Hooper’s snaps were 45% run and 55% pass. Njoku’s snaps were 46% run and 54% pass. So if you look at these percentages, the two tight ends were utilized almost identically.

What’s interesting are the PFF grades for each player. Hooper’s overall offense grade was 69.8 and Njoku’s was 70.1. Hooper’s receiving grade of 72.0 was noticeably higher than Njoku’s 67.6, but the blocking grades caught our eye. Njoku’s run block grade was 63.6, while Hooper’s was lower at 58.9. Also, Njoku’s 77.4 pass block grade was significantly higher than Hooper’s 63.2.

When you take out the disparity in overall snap count (Hooper did play 323 more snaps than Njoku), the splits and percentages are very similar between the two tight ends. So while Hooper’s receiving appears to be ahead of Njoku’s, the PFF stats show that Njoku is actually the better blocker. We bet if you asked the casual Browns fan who the Browns best blocking tight end was, they would tell you Hooper, no question. But actually, Hooper was the Browns third-best blocking tight end behind Njoku and rookie Harrison Bryant.

So that’s why, after looking into the numbers, it’s not so clear-cut that Hooper is far and away the best tight end on the Browns. His contract says he is, but his splits and utilization show that the Browns use their tight ends in a specific way, and they have two players who can get the job done. And, actually, it appears that Njoku is ahead of Hooper when it comes to both run and pass blocking.

Divisional Round - Cleveland Browns v Kansas City Chiefs

full read... https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2021/7/12/22571108/training-camp-storylines-to-watch-austin-hooper-vs-david-njoku-who-will-win-te1

As a former TE..I got to give TE coach Drew Petzing a lot of credit here, to get David Njoku to finally accept NFL TE coaching.. Njoku was age 20 when drafted ?.. David just turned 25, this July 10th.. Something seems to have finally clicked..Could be Hooper's help as well?

Just don't throw it to his waste line or below...Chest or above..

Dutch Oven

Hooper was pretty 'meh' last season. Not bad, mind you, just not someone that made you feel warm and fuzzy over the big contract they gave him.

Looking forward to seeing how Bryant looks this season, after a full NFL offseason. Kid started off decently, then hit the proverbial wall at 100mph.

I've gotten burned on Njoku before, thinking he was on the cusp of becoming the guy the Browns used a first rounder on. We'll see.

Unsympathetic

First, regarding the 2017 draft.. let's be thankful that our then-woeful "brain" trust didn't trade the pick that became njoku to sentence us to 4 years of Trubisky.

However, Njoku at 29 was appropriate - presuming, of course, you avoid thinking about someone named TJ watt who was taken at 30. Move on but never forget..

@dutch-oven said:

Hooper was pretty 'meh' last season

Hooper was meh his whole career.. at ATL his entire route tree was drag, curl, and stand there in the flat. It's like they never looked at any video to see the garbage time stats before signing him..

Orion

Hooper was a beast with Atlanta. Last year was a very funky year. With the lack of practice time, and trying to learn a new system and acquire proper timing....perhaps everything can be put together this year.

Orion

Zombo said:

Hooper seemed lead-footed to me.

...yes...that's a good way to put it...but Bryant runs like Frankenstein sometimes, with both arms around the ball...because he fumbled a time or two early in the season.

Tour2ma

@dutch-oven said:

And no one misunderstood what was going on during the Sashi era.

Belied by every post you make on the subject...

gumby73

I'd say we nailed most of these. https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/07/what-position-battles-am-i-most-looking-forward-to-at-browns-training-camp-there-are-a-lot-ellis-l-williams.html

I'm also finding it hard for Woods to resist from playing a lot of Big Nickle with 3 Safety's with the likes of.. JJ3/Delpit & Ronnie Harrison...

We might have a 2 look safety battle of Grant Delpit vs Ronnie Harrison to sort out also ? Rookie FS Richard LeCounte.. sits behind Delpit on most depth charts..Harrison sits behind JJ3

Dozen days till start of Training Camp

tiamat63

That big nickel is essentially your base defense. I'm hoping more and more people are coming to this understanding.

Orion

@tiamat63 said:

That big nickel is essentially your base defense.

That's the way I see it. I don't expect to see much of the 3 lb'er sets. Unless JOK turns out to be a good big safety....or unless the opponent is hell bent to show that they can push our D around with their running game.

tiamat63

@orion said:

That's the way I see it. I don't expect to see much of the 3 lb'er sets. Unless JOK turns out to be a good big safety....or unless the opponent is hell bent to show that they can push our D around with their running game.

JOK is your WILL and/or whatever other designation he's going to get in nickel and dime sets. If he shows out in camp, he ain't leaving the field. Your "Big" is likely Harrison.

gumby73

@tiamat63 said:

That big nickel is essentially your base defense. I'm hoping more and more people are coming to this understanding.

When we head to KC week 1, I won't mind even seeing some speed corners on the field aka Ward/Greedy/Newsome with some Troy Hill ?.. I've almost given up on Reek Hill being taking away from Homie in any game... Mecole Hardman is just as fast & becoming a WR weapon too.. Any DB insight on a high low double team to take away Travis Kelsey? I just assume Hill & Kelsey kill every team.. Not only the Browns..

Orion

@gumby73 said:

When we head to KC week 1,

Yeah...ultimately, we have to figure out how to beat them don't we. Thus the 4-2-5....with some better players.

calfoxwc

@orion said:

Yeah...ultimately, we have to figure out how to beat them don't we. Thus the 4-2-5....with some better players.

IT's really interesting - the Chief's defense is used to playing against Kelsey and Hill and Hardman in practice.... but the Browns have a huge advantage in DE's, LB's (now), and secondary (now) on defense. On offense, Baker can't run like a gazelle like Mahomes, but the Browns have a big advantage in oline, rb's and TE depth. The Browns can control the game? with their running game - but can Kelsey/Hill/Hardman get open often enough with this Browns secondary and linebackers? Can the Browns defense come together in time? Can Anthony Schwartz play as similar a dramatic role with the Browns offense his rookie year as Hill did with the Chiefs?

Luckily, Anthony has competition for playing time - Hill was a necessary quick addition to their offense.....