Is anyone impressed with Joe Woods?.. I'm NOT!!
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Couple weeks ago I took the time to break down the bomb to Tyreek Hill. Watched the film, broke-down the coverage, the responsibilities, only thing I didn't bother touched were the run/gap fits because they weren't relevant to the point I was making. I did all this to see if what I watched live and absorbed in real time was supported by going back and combing for further detail.
Nuance... It's a hell of word. In my search, I found my initial observation to be spot on. It was a freaky play.
I did the same with the Browns pass rush when watching the All-22. Were they as below average as I had the "feeling"...? Turns out, after viewing both games, my feeling was incorrect. The pass rush was well above average and just unfortunate running into QB's that have the athletic ability to help mitigate or overcome the effects our Dline had been putting in. Pressure rates tend to eventually produce compound effects on a QB. Either with errant throws, questionable decisions or turnovers. Rarely, if ever, does a team show little pressure rate then somehow produce turnovers. I mentioned this in the Browns-HOU thread and how the Browns are a breath away from 2-0 and +2, +3 turnover margin. I would think, after some years on this board, that I could be taken at my word on what/who I have and have not watched and that my evaluations tend to be both unbias and accurate. Not saying I haven't been wrong, but I've gotten on base WAY more than I've struck out.
I'm not a "fan" of Joe Woods. But his designs held KC to 10 points in the first half, AT THEIR HOUSE. A design Baltimore happily attempted to duplicate only to pull it off by the skin of their teeth at home. Then, in the complete dismissal of a Texans squad with some decent talent (Tyrod, Cooks, Conley, Lindsay, Amendola, Miller, Tunsil) Browns fans have shifted into almost complete arrogance over the course of the 2018-2019 off-season that we should be blowing out these teams. Winning by 10 against a team like Houston is a fine dub by any stretch, be it home or away. However, I understand Woods gameplans and the coverage structure in them to a significant degree.
I see calls for blitzing but not realizing that when this team was blitz happy, our pressure and sack rate didn't rise commensurately with it. Quite the opposite, our total of explosive plays given up rose. Supporting the idea that blitzing doesn't necessarily = success. One of the problems with Gregg Williams ultra aggressive scheme - predictability as well. The man would send additional rushers and get himself into trouble because, like Texas Hold 'Em, when you're rigid to only one strategy no matter what it is, that strategy can be exploited. Another thing I see failed to address, blitzing young QB's tends to actually make their reads THAT much easier The Belicheck approach of pressure early to create ghosts is one I'm a fan of, but I see no mention of that here.
I see "scheme" tossed around a bit. With NOBODY, save for maybe @sdbacker80, attempting or capable of digesting it further.
Granted, it's at the most basic of levels with very generalized terminology... but at minimum it's a fucking attempt from him.
So you know what bothers me about this thread? The lack of effort, more than anything really. The lack of appreciation for detail and explanation. Or maybe the lack of football I.Q? But this is why, in a nutshell, you see me respond so infrequently on this board. A lot of what is said on here lacks substance and is just really a bunch of bitching.
But if you guys want to talk "scheme" live and maybe not type it out so much, don't forget we have a Browns Board discord that will be live sunday. Would love to hear your guys' thoughts as the game is played.
because, like Texas Hold 'Em, when you're rigid to only one strategy no matter what it is, that strategy can be exploited. Another thing I see failed to address, blitzing young QB's tends to actually make their reads THAT much easier The Belicheck approach of pressure early to create ghosts is one I'm a fan of, but I see no mention of that here.
Well... I believe in getting caught bluffing early, but not often...
Last season we were statistically much worse off when blitzing. This? I'd guess the sample size is too small at this point, but when I see other teams' DCs designing blitz combos that resemble wide ZBS with DL clearing alleys for LBs and DBs to run free to the QB and none of that from us, well.... it's disappointing. We seem to be plain vanilla in a chocolate chip, cookie dough world. I still do not share the diminished LB value view ascribed to DePo... I think that's part of the issue. Superior athletes at LB still seem to go a long way to determining the success of a D's blitz.
Ours? much simpler... If MG wins his matchup we pressure, if not we don't. Now even MG is calling for help... https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/09/myles-garrett-calls-on-his-browns-teammates-to-step-up-and-make-the-play-when-hes-chipped-and-doubled.html
Woods vs. Williams? Live fast/ die young vs. conservatively make the opponent string plays to even sniff the redzone? The former is sexier, but the latter is the sounder philosophy in general. It just runs into issues when it faces a high-powered O that can string those plays or bust one despite facing a well-disciplined 2ndary giving a lil added cushion. And if that is not KC's O, then I do not know whose it is.
Moot to talk rerplacements. Joe is here for the duration.
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We have some cover guys now that can go man to man in our secondary. So this bail cover 3 junk is a little frustrating.
I’m not a big fan of the bend don’t break principles either- especially when the team isn’t creating turnovers.
My biggest complaint…I saw a team last Sunday that needed a jolt (bring an extra pass rusher) and that didn’t happen until the second half and low and behold it worked we pressured with a safety and an inside corner on another play.
If the front four is getting to the QB that’s great/ideal but when you can’t and you give up 14 points in 20 plays - it’s time to bring an extra guy or two. The average/below average QBs are too good to give 5/6 seconds
You could defend Joe last year…you can’t this year
We have some cover guys now that can go man to man in our secondary.
Kiss of death vs. running QBs...
Garrett's sack total is 1.5.
Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
We have some cover guys now that can go man to man in our secondary.
Kiss of death vs. running QBs...
Garrett's sack total is 1.5.
Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.
Kiss of death vs. running QBs...
Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.
I hear you…while Tyrod is still a threat I don’t think he makes you want to abandon man all together. Now Lamar…absolutely. And Strangely we played man a ton in that late season shoot out against Lamar.
And Someone has to have some contain principles too against these running QBs
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We have some cover guys now that can go man to man in our secondary.
Kiss of death vs. running QBs...
Garrett's sack total is 1.5.
Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.
Kiss of death vs. running QBs...
Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.
I get all of that... Woods is not getting the most out of his crew...
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Kiss of death vs. running QBs...
Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.
I hear you…while Tyrod is still a threat I don’t think he makes you want to abandon man all together. Now Lamar…absolutely. And Strangely we played man a ton in that late season shoot out against Lamar.
And Someone has to have some contain principles too against these running QBs
Now Lamar…absolutely.
And Mahomes... who I was thinking of as I typed the reply.
Fields? I'd risk the odd extra rushing yard here and there for the confusion mixing in some man should bring... may just give him that added pause that allows him to be hit. A strip sack is the most delicious sack of all...
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Kiss of death vs. running QBs...
Sacks are overrated as a measure of a pass rush's effectiveness. While they are nice and sexy... Pressures, Hurries and Knock-downs are what you want to see pile up... with a nod to Offensive holds as well.
I hear you…while Tyrod is still a threat I don’t think he makes you want to abandon man all together. Now Lamar…absolutely. And Strangely we played man a ton in that late season shoot out against Lamar.
And Someone has to have some contain principles too against these running QBs
I hear you…while Tyrod is still a threat I don’t think he makes you want to abandon man all together. Now Lamar…absolutely. And Strangely we played man a ton in that late season shoot out against Lamar.
And Someone has to have some contain principles too against these running QBs
You're confusing quarters vs straight man coverage. We played a TON of quarters on early downs and man on long downs and distances. Still didn't work.
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I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
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I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
It looked great. Hopefully they can do it next week against an established QB
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
Might have been, in all seriousness, the most dominant Browns defensive game in their history.
But I totally get what you are saying. With the amount of new guys on defense, along with the injuries the defense has suffered, I think we won't really get a bead on this defense until closer to midseason. I will say this - the defense in general was flying to the ball all day. The defense looked as athletic as I've ever seen from a Browns defense today.
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I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
It looked great. Hopefully they can do it next week against an established QB
It looked great. Hopefully they can do it next week against an established QB
For sure it will be a taller task next week. I figure a good chunk of the success today came because Fields couldn’t process reads and run for his life at the same.
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I think we all saw how much more effective blitzes can be when you are already getting good pressure only rushing four...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
Might have been, in all seriousness, the most dominant Browns defensive game in their history.
But I totally get what you are saying. With the amount of new guys on defense, along with the injuries the defense has suffered, I think we won't really get a bead on this defense until closer to midseason. I will say this - the defense in general was flying to the ball all day. The defense looked as athletic as I've ever seen from a Browns defense today.
The defense looked as athletic as I've ever seen from a Browns defense today.
And fast, fast, fast. Speed kills!?
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The defense looked as athletic as I've ever seen from a Browns defense today.
And fast, fast, fast. Speed kills!?
And fast, fast, fast. Speed kills!?
It looks a hell of a lot faster without Mack Wilson and Takitaki.. Who in my view are lifetime special teamers...
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And fast, fast, fast. Speed kills!?
It looks a hell of a lot faster without Mack Wilson and Takitaki.. Who in my view are lifetime special teamers...
It looks a hell of a lot faster without Mack Wilson and Takitaki.. Who in my view are lifetime special teamers...
Taki squared came on strong towards the end of the season last year. He’s not as speedy as a JOK (few are) but he has some thumpability that’s nice for run defense. He’s a good dude to have around for when we face a team with a good ground game like the Titans.
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I’m not going to get overly excited because l think Justin Fields helped make the defense’s job a lot easier, but l’m hard pressed to remember a more dominant performance from a Brown’s defense for all 4 quarters of a game. Between the sacks and passes defended, they looked lights out. They recorded 7 passes defended, which means a full third of the attempted passes met a defender’s hand first.
Credit where credit’s due, Woods had the guys on point for this one. Now let’s see if he can keep that trend going.
Might have been, in all seriousness, the most dominant Browns defensive game in their history.
But I totally get what you are saying. With the amount of new guys on defense, along with the injuries the defense has suffered, I think we won't really get a bead on this defense until closer to midseason. I will say this - the defense in general was flying to the ball all day. The defense looked as athletic as I've ever seen from a Browns defense today.
Might have been, in all seriousness, the most dominant Browns defensive game in their history.
But I totally get what you are saying. With the amount of new guys on defense, along with the injuries the defense has suffered, I think we won't really get a bead on this defense until closer to midseason. I will say this - the defense in general was flying to the ball all day. The defense looked as athletic as I've ever seen from a Browns defense today.
i started the Browns D in fantasy got me all most 26 points
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Might have been, in all seriousness, the most dominant Browns defensive game in their history.
But I totally get what you are saying. With the amount of new guys on defense, along with the injuries the defense has suffered, I think we won't really get a bead on this defense until closer to midseason. I will say this - the defense in general was flying to the ball all day. The defense looked as athletic as I've ever seen from a Browns defense today.
i started the Browns D in fantasy got me all most 26 points
i started the Browns D in fantasy got me all most 26 points
OMG in most FLs before the draft nobody wanted CLE they were way down the list.
But 9 sacks will help..... still 26 points is unreal for a D !
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Ravens are the most unlucky and also luckiest team I’ve ever seen. That Detroit game is just cheap. Should’ve had a delay of game called also on the 4th and 10.
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I'm not sure yet. He's got a tough job ahead of him tomorrow. This game probably comes down to who scores TDs and not FG's. Who coverts the 4th downs vs who doesn't. Who can get a turnover, who can't. It's gonna be a fun one.
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Have now held the #5 and #8 scoring offenses (5th and 8th in total offensive yards as well) in the NFL to 10 points or less in the 1st half..... AT THEIR HOUSE.
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