Baker Mayfield
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Drew Lock and Teddy B are the reason the Broncos continue their QB hunt.
Sadly I don’t think we are too far behind on the same hunt.
"too far behind" might be a stretch. I believe Baker is a fine QB, but I also am beginning to see patterns.
Patterns that stretch back to his time at OU, the changes to their offense that Lincoln Riley made his priority their very first off-season. Patterns of his eyes, his progressions on certain sides of the field and formation strengths. Things that only time can help to illuminate. It's half the reason I posted that above question on finding the post with the material quoting Baker and his play. I still can't find it, but when I do I'm going to reference it to some of my previous work.
"too far behind" might be a stretch. I believe Baker is a fine QB, but I also am beginning to see patterns.
Patterns that stretch back to his time at OU, the changes to their offense that Lincoln Riley made his priority their very first off-season. Patterns of his eyes, his progressions on certain sides of the field and formation strengths. Things that only time can help to illuminate. It's half the reason I posted that above question on finding the post with the material quoting Baker and his play. I still can't find it, but when I do I'm going to reference it to some of my previous work.
That wasn't me Tia. though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him. That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either. The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...
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"too far behind" might be a stretch. I believe Baker is a fine QB, but I also am beginning to see patterns.
Patterns that stretch back to his time at OU, the changes to their offense that Lincoln Riley made his priority their very first off-season. Patterns of his eyes, his progressions on certain sides of the field and formation strengths. Things that only time can help to illuminate. It's half the reason I posted that above question on finding the post with the material quoting Baker and his play. I still can't find it, but when I do I'm going to reference it to some of my previous work.
That wasn't me Tia. though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him. That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either. The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...
That wasn't me Tia. though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him. That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either. The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...
don't think so. that last game, barfsonhislegger missed an absolutely wide open wr/te in the end zone. Brady has had one of the greatest get open, rumble yac te's in NFL history. Gronk went to the Bucs with him. I wish the Browns had a Chris Godwin. He was a star wr out of Penn State. Excellent get open, good size, excellent yac, fast.... the Browns don't. And Brady has Mike Evans, 6'5", 235, first round draft pick some years ago. and Antonio Brown, another dynamic wr. and Gronk.
Sorry, but Baker has obj and Landry playing injured, Peoples-Jones was hurt didn't play, HIggins who isn't fast or dynamic. and how long has Brady been in the league? and how long has Baker been in the league? and the Browns have had both OT tackle starters out of the play or playing hurt.
You get Baker a Jalen Tolbert or two next year, and watch how Baker finds the OPEN wr.
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"too far behind" might be a stretch. I believe Baker is a fine QB, but I also am beginning to see patterns.
Patterns that stretch back to his time at OU, the changes to their offense that Lincoln Riley made his priority their very first off-season. Patterns of his eyes, his progressions on certain sides of the field and formation strengths. Things that only time can help to illuminate. It's half the reason I posted that above question on finding the post with the material quoting Baker and his play. I still can't find it, but when I do I'm going to reference it to some of my previous work.
That wasn't me Tia. though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him. That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either. The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...
That wasn't me Tia. though OBJ's Dad certainly ran a few clips showing he was open- and Baker didn't see him. That's not an isolated instance. The great QBs have a knack for seeing the entire field, and pitching the ball to the open guy- even if it's outside of their normal progressions. You can give me grief if you want to , but it's starting to be apparent, Baker doesn't have the instant recognition of a Brady who's going to be open. And you can't blame the o-line for not giving him enough time either. The below is from one of the Fan Club's sites...
There's a few screenshots I have from the Cardinals game. I'll post them later if I have time.
The first is felton on 3 and hitch underneath with the clear out by OBJ. Baker never saw it for a cheap 6 yards - 2nd & 4. Pretty sure he took a sack that play.
2 more, Odell was open on a drag and settle which would have made it 1st and goal. The other was a similar design but levels double under, except instead of OBJ it was DPJ that Baker missed.
Like I've said, Odell isn't a huge help, but dismissing him from the team doesn't magically fix the passing game either. This offense needs a WR of high caliber to fill that role, Odell or otherwise.
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Without watching that play
- Baker is 7 years deep. So 5 or 7 step drop.
- the position of the tackle and edge looks like Bosa was carried upfield, finally wrapped back around like what normally happens and was working back towards Baker.
- unreal room for Baker to step up and out. Something that benefits all QB's, but especially ones that are 6'1.
- looks like 3 deep, 3 under given the 5 man pressure. You can call it 3 fire or 3 sky.
That's an educated guess. But since I have gamepass and coach film I'll check it out later. I'm leaving work early and going to be just cramming football tape later. So if anyone wants to join and get the answers to the play above in real time - I'll be on TBB discord.
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Zombo said:
Is it me, or did our tackle get beat like a drum, and the Charger will get to Baker's arm before could release it to ODB?
This exercise is dumb, because you have to see what Baker sees and you have to feel the pass rush.
Clearly our tackle got beat on a speed rush and the play got blown up.
I don't even know what play this is, but I can tell you it's not going to end well unless Baker flushes ... no time to throw.
Z
No this is the play the baker forced it down field to a covered higgins about 15 yards farther downfield than obj when all we needed was a first down or two to win the game. The following play was the 3rd and 10 draw play
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Zombo said:
So then he must have flushed out of the pocket and threw it to Higgins ... who was interefered with and it wasn't called if I recall correctly.
Z
No he pretty much throws it right as that picture is shown and I don't believe it was pass interference. The guy made contact right about the same time the ball hit the defender in the back but there was a shitty p.i. or two in that game so I could see where would say this should have been p.i. also. Also obj was open before this picture was taken also. The corner bailed immediately.
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Obviously the reason Baker is not elite is because he believes in modern medicine.
He needs to come up with his own version of The TB12 Method or Rodgers "I'm Immunized" [history of power crystals, grew up on a llama farm, his fiance eats clay regularly]...
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Zombo said:
OK, so he went for the bigger play instead of the checkdown on 2nd down. I can live with that. We needed to be agressive against that team. Stefanski admits he made a mistake calling the draw on 3rd down, because he was still caught up in the play before, which he thought they would get a PI.
Z
Emily, put the phone down, you're embarrassing your husband and his team.
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Zombo said:
OK, so he went for the bigger play instead of the checkdown on 2nd down. I can live with that. We needed to be agressive against that team. Stefanski admits he made a mistake calling the draw on 3rd down, because he was still caught up in the play before, which he thought they would get a PI.
Z
Emily, put the phone down, you're embarrassing your husband and his team.
Emily, put the phone down, you're embarrassing your husband and his team.
As opposed, of course, to your takes that are neither correct nor entertaining, right?
Zombo will improve the board's conversations when he IP-bans you.
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Emily, put the phone down, you're embarrassing your husband and his team.
As opposed, of course, to your takes that are neither correct nor entertaining, right?
Zombo will improve the board's conversations when he IP-bans you.
As opposed, of course, to your takes that are neither correct nor entertaining, right?
Zombo will improve the board's conversations when he IP-bans you.
As opposed to the "correct take" of none of this being Baker's fault? Right.
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The entire team is playing poorly right now and on both sides of the ball, Not all on Baker not all on OBJ, You can show a video of OBJ being open and not getting the ball, You can see a video of OBJ have the ball bounce off his hands and hit the ground.
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Zombo said:
Is it me, or did our tackle get beat like a drum, and the Charger will get to Baker's arm before could release it to ODB?
This exercise is dumb, because you have to see what Baker sees and you have to feel the pass rush.
Clearly our tackle got beat on a speed rush and the play got blown up.
I don't even know what play this is, but I can tell you it's not going to end well unless Baker flushes ... no time to throw.
Z
Listen up Baker FAN BOI. Stop making excuses for Mayfield. He's not above legitimate criticism. Not blown up because he had time to uncork a long pass. Locked into the home run to a covered Higgins. Could have tossed it to OBJ for a first down, or whoops, our mighty midget couldn't see Hunt just standing there open for at least a short gain.
These aren't isolated instances either. FWIW, if our Wounded Warrior can't pull off a win this coming Sunday against a pissed off Bengals team, we can all start thinking about 2022, because for all intents and purposes our playoff hopes are flushed.
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Zombo said:
OK, so he went for the bigger play instead of the checkdown on 2nd down. I can live with that. We needed to be agressive against that team. Stefanski admits he made a mistake calling the draw on 3rd down, because he was still caught up in the play before, which he thought they would get a PI.
Z
But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
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Zombo said:
OK, so he went for the bigger play instead of the checkdown on 2nd down. I can live with that. We needed to be agressive against that team. Stefanski admits he made a mistake calling the draw on 3rd down, because he was still caught up in the play before, which he thought they would get a PI.
Z
But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
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But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
I'm not guessing that HIggins was covered or that obj was open for a first down. Watch the all 22 of the play higgins was never open. Again I'm not saying baker sucks or he deliberately chose to not pass to the open obj. I'm saying he needs to be able to see that and be aware enough to take it in the situation. Case in point of situational football. This drive ends and we punt they score when Johnson has a heads up play and carries ekeler into the endzone. We get the ball back and then Baker wants to throw it short over the middle of the field. Something like we picked up 12 yards in 50 seconds of game time. That's when he should potentially force the ball downfield
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But that's not really a checkdown that's a first down when up 1 with ball and they only have two timeouts left 3 minutes left. We didn't need chunk plays we needed first downs. I'm not saying baker sucks either. I'm just saying the one is all on baker and he needs to get better at seeing the whole field reading defenses or if he sees it but just went for the bigger the play then he needs to get better at situational football
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
The above is true Cal. We can't see what Baker sees. OTOH, it's not being mean to Baker pointing out the numerous times what he doesn't see. OK, you'd have to be dumber than a box of rocks to not think the Browns coaching staff doesn't point out to Baker every time he makes boneheaded decisions, but 8 games into the season- he's still making them. From my POV- the jury is still out if this is a fixable problem- or not.
I even gave Baker a backhanded compliment... Take a look at that screen shot. He had Hunt just standing there uncovered, but the 6'1" Baker probably didn't see him behind the forest of 6'5" players in front of him. Now Stefanski has the added problem that (where he's best at) you can't be rolling Mayfield out a lot, because of the risk he's going to get Watt-ed again.
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What else does Baker need?
Does he need a first round Tackle? All Pro guard? Pro Bowl guard? elite back? Possession WR? Pass catching back? Gadget RB/WR? Consistency in the same system over an offseason?
Year 4 was put up or shut up. Will his job get easier if he makes more money with us and his great support cast is now minimized?
I guess if he becomes a better QB - sure.
I remember thinking how well he did in the pocket sliding around and finding passing lanes in the face of a blitz…that was year 1.
The past month (especially)…he gets a little pressure in his lap and his head is down and he’s stumbling around in the pocket. Did the same throughout 2019 and parts of 2020 too -
Here's the problem, as Zombo noted - we don't see everything as Baker is seeing them. He threw to Higgins for a big gain instead of throwing shorter for a first down to obj, who would probably drop it and/or was playing hurt and was ready to get clobbered. Throwing to HIggins sounds good to me at THAT instant, but HIggins is not all that fast - if he was open on a fine route - a fast cb can close in on him no matter how fast the ball gets there on a long throw. Who knows? But it has to be tough without a blazing fast get open all the freakin time wr. Without a better, taller #1 wr, and Landry playing hurt, obj hurt and pouting as usual, and Peoples-Jones out with an injury, and Schwartz not ready for prime time much.... it's Baker's fault? I just don't think so.
Peoples-Jones is 6'2", 212 lbs, and ran a 4.48 at the combine. and he was out for the pittspuke game.
Claypool is 6'4", 238 lbs, and ran a 4.42 at the combine. guys like them are a terrific boost to the stats of a qb, and the performance of an offense.
No surprise to me that Baker has serious trouble trying to make the passing game work vs better defenses. The Browns must fix the wr position, add a power big athletic DL, and draft a backup RT/LT. or starting RT. Oh, so close they are - but just not there yet. And I think Stefanski needs to let the OC call plays to give the offense a boost. The last two games, I have noticed that he quit running on first down so much....
I'm not guessing that HIggins was covered or that obj was open for a first down. Watch the all 22 of the play higgins was never open. Again I'm not saying baker sucks or he deliberately chose to not pass to the open obj. I'm saying he needs to be able to see that and be aware enough to take it in the situation. Case in point of situational football. This drive ends and we punt they score when Johnson has a heads up play and carries ekeler into the endzone. We get the ball back and then Baker wants to throw it short over the middle of the field. Something like we picked up 12 yards in 50 seconds of game time. That's when he should potentially force the ball downfield
I'm not guessing that HIggins was covered or that obj was open for a first down. Watch the all 22 of the play higgins was never open. Again I'm not saying baker sucks or he deliberately chose to not pass to the open obj. I'm saying he needs to be able to see that and be aware enough to take it in the situation. Case in point of situational football.
watch Baker's.. than check out Mahomes all 22's the last 2 weeks ?.. Both, their OL play/ is playing into this.. Baker maybe playing more skid-ish, protecting a injury compared to Homie ? But,
Baker & Mahomes are both holding the ball to long, moving their eyes/head (down) off down field routes in the pocket.. The ball has got to come out
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What else does Baker need?
Does he need a first round Tackle? All Pro guard? Pro Bowl guard? elite back? Possession WR? Pass catching back? Gadget RB/WR? Consistency in the same system over an offseason?
Year 4 was put up or shut up. Will his job get easier if he makes more money with us and his great support cast is now minimized?
I guess if he becomes a better QB - sure.
I remember thinking how well he did in the pocket sliding around and finding passing lanes in the face of a blitz…that was year 1.
The past month (especially)…he gets a little pressure in his lap and his head is down and he’s stumbling around in the pocket. Did the same throughout 2019 and parts of 2020 tooWhat else does Baker need?
Does he need a first round Tackle? All Pro guard? Pro Bowl guard? elite back? Possession WR? Pass catching back? Gadget RB/WR? Consistency in the same system over an offseason?
Year 4 was put up or shut up. Will his job get easier if he makes more money with us and his great support cast is now minimized?
I guess if he becomes a better QB - sure.
I remember thinking how well he did in the pocket sliding around and finding passing lanes in the face of a blitz…that was year 1.
The past month (especially)…he gets a little pressure in his lap and his head is down and he’s stumbling around in the pocket. Did the same throughout 2019 and parts of 2020 tooBaker unfortunately is consistent on being inconsistent. One game he can be balling out and the next one misses everyone and doesn't see the things he needs to see.
I like the guy and I'm far away from letting him go because he has been the best Browns' QB of the last 20 years, but looking how the season is turning out I would bench him until he is 100% and let the rest of the roster prove if this team is playoff worthy or not. Take the 5th year option and see next year how it goes.
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Going in on the film review in 5, feel free to join on discord and to stick around for the Colts - Jets game.
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