Baker Mayfield
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I remember one time Brandon Weeden over threw a pass to his receiver so badly the refs called intentional grounding on him.
Man I miss the good old days!
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I hear you D.
It seems like just last month we were 0-16 and the laughing stock of the league.
Mayfield may not be the QB to take us to the SB, but at least we aren’t going through the endless carousel of drafting the next college QB to lead us through another abysmal season.
Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
I don’t think Baker deserves top $ because his stats doesn’t warrant it.
Using that logic, you mentioned Dak Prescott in the same sentence with Mahomes & Rogers.
Prescott is in his 6th season in the NFL, and 1-2 in playoffs, he’s getting better stat wise but he’s not in the same category as the other 2 guys.
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I hear you D.
It seems like just last month we were 0-16 and the laughing stock of the league.
Mayfield may not be the QB to take us to the SB, but at least we aren’t going through the endless carousel of drafting the next college QB to lead us through another abysmal season.
Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
Regarding Tannehill, here ya go....https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/ryan-tannehill-9818/
Because as of now, Baker is about on that level. Offer him 4 years, $60 million or so guaranteed. And by comparison... Now Browns fans are whining "his receivers stink", Chubb was hurt. he's hurt, Stefanski forgot how to coach, etc, etc... Well Tannehill loses his big gun Derrek Henry, so what do the Titans do? Go out and beat the Rams. Sheeze. We lose Chubb and the Browns go to New England and lay a humongous turd on us fans.
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I hear you D.
It seems like just last month we were 0-16 and the laughing stock of the league.
Mayfield may not be the QB to take us to the SB, but at least we aren’t going through the endless carousel of drafting the next college QB to lead us through another abysmal season.
Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
How about everyone wait and see what Baker demands instead of presuming? So much tar and feathering of a dude that has shown nothing but loyalty to the Cleveland Browns throughout his entire career, and is playing hurt this year along with the vast majority of his play makers.... and some of them are not even playing at all.
Is Baker worth top 5 QB money? I don't think so, but until we get to the point in time that it is finally reported that he is asking for that, let's just focus on 95's side of the ball and exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times.
^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95.
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Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
How about everyone wait and see what Baker demands instead of presuming? So much tar and feathering of a dude that has shown nothing but loyalty to the Cleveland Browns throughout his entire career, and is playing hurt this year along with the vast majority of his play makers.... and some of them are not even playing at all.
Is Baker worth top 5 QB money? I don't think so, but until we get to the point in time that it is finally reported that he is asking for that, let's just focus on 95's side of the ball and exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times.
^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95.
exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times.
^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95.
Because fuck that Bears game, AMIRIGHT?!?!
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I wonder if we might see a scenario where the Browns do offer Baker a contract extension, but for less money or less years than he's expecting - and he walks.
I wonder if we might see a scenario where the Browns do offer Baker a contract extension, but for less money or less years than he's expecting - and he walks.
The front office can't fear that, or they mortgage the team's future. They need to stick to their guns and offer something fair, but not cross the line.
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Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
How about everyone wait and see what Baker demands instead of presuming? So much tar and feathering of a dude that has shown nothing but loyalty to the Cleveland Browns throughout his entire career, and is playing hurt this year along with the vast majority of his play makers.... and some of them are not even playing at all.
Is Baker worth top 5 QB money? I don't think so, but until we get to the point in time that it is finally reported that he is asking for that, let's just focus on 95's side of the ball and exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times.
^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95.
How about everyone wait and see what Baker demands instead of presuming? So much tar and feathering of a dude that has shown nothing but loyalty to the Cleveland Browns throughout his entire career, and is playing hurt this year along with the vast majority of his play makers.... and some of them are not even playing at all.
Is Baker worth top 5 QB money? I don't think so, but until we get to the point in time that it is finally reported that he is asking for that, let's just focus on 95's side of the ball and exactly when is he going to take over just 1 game and single handily win it all by himself like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas did... multiple times.
^ There, that should trigger some of you who worship to the Church of 95.
Reading the tea leaves.....didn't his wife come out and say he is under-appreciated for turning the entire team's culture around??????????? Wives know what their hubby's are feeling. If he feels responsible for turning around this team from an 0-16 team to what they are (a .500 team to possibly a play off team) then he will feel he's as valuable as any QB in the NFL, and IF he is the main person responsible for that transformation then???? Is he?
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The day Baker Mayfield as a QB is even in the same zip code as Myles Garrett is as a DE is the day we should throw their names together in a "Well, what about Myles?" comparison.
Come on meow.
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There are a lot of ways to be single high coverage. But against certain single high looks, be it C1 or C3. One of the concepts I learned a long time ago watching watching how Pete Carrol and USC attacked the single high C3 looks from Penn State. They'd do it with skinny posts and double moves like corner-post. Basically anything to get the DB to open his hips or to attack them over-playing depth. Double posts is a great way as well because you can read the leverage of the middle field safety and make your key off that. A good example is from this clip at the 1:44 mark.
Really anything that presses up the seams and forces linebackers to carry upfield or anything breaking inside leverage on corners. There's another example of that at the 4:20 mark in the same clip there. Almost like a smash concept, but the #2 doesn't break full to the flag. Enough to stay outside the hash and away from the MFS, but enough to stay inside the numbers and away from the CB. Takes a great throw with heat, timing and accuracy. More importantly requires a QB to make multiple post snap reads.
The biggest being what hash the MFS is favoring, where is his momentum or leverage carrying him post snap, and what is the alignment and depth of the corner based on the route tag.
Keep this all in mind as you read this post. Generally if you get a MFS far enough over on that hash, you can scratch that read off in your head and in the case of the 4:20 mark, just tag your little 6 yard hitch before the curl/flat defender can expand far enough to affect that throw. Especially if said curl flat checks the #2 pushing vertical like in that chip. Again, requires solid eyes. So if you're wondering why Sanchez was drafted 1st round? This Rose Bowl tape was a big reason why. It's crazy that he had such an average career, because he looked the part at SC. Of course he went to the Jets and to a QB graveyard that was Rex Ryan... but still. Follow up post inbound.
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Fine, but that wasn't the assertion: the concept that Baker doesn't deserve top QB $ was. If he thinks his play is deserving of Mahomes, Dak or Rogers' $, he's been hit in the head too much. He'd be lucky to make Tannehill $.
Regarding Tannehill, here ya go....https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/tennessee-titans/ryan-tannehill-9818/
Because as of now, Baker is about on that level. Offer him 4 years, $60 million or so guaranteed. And by comparison... Now Browns fans are whining "his receivers stink", Chubb was hurt. he's hurt, Stefanski forgot how to coach, etc, etc... Well Tannehill loses his big gun Derrek Henry, so what do the Titans do? Go out and beat the Rams. Sheeze. We lose Chubb and the Browns go to New England and lay a humongous turd on us fans.
Well Tannehill loses his big gun Derrek Henry, so what do the Titans do?
well, think about that. Tenn has A. J. Brown. Second round pick, pro bowl player. The tenn
head coach was hired in Jan 2018, So Vrable has a couple of years experience over Stephanski...to run with game plans etc.
It's a team game. It isn't Baker that is holding them back, nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly. It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.
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Well Tannehill loses his big gun Derrek Henry, so what do the Titans do?
well, think about that. Tenn has A. J. Brown. Second round pick, pro bowl player. The tenn
head coach was hired in Jan 2018, So Vrable has a couple of years experience over Stephanski...to run with game plans etc.
It's a team game. It isn't Baker that is holding them back, nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly. It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.
It isn't Baker that is holding them back
nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly.
It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.
1/2 of the all-22 is out and I'm literally watching it right this moment. Get ready to pop over to the Baker mayfield thread.
You aren't going to like what I've found.
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The Patriots, like any defense that gives Baker trouble, do a great deal of shifting post snap. The only issues is, when they don't, Baker takes far too long to process what he's seeing.
This is a double seam concept similar to what I referenced in the above post.
- Double seams over the expanding curl/flat defender, inside the CB but outside the hash to stress the safety into declaring his leverage choice.
- Baker checked the corner and, per great NE coaching of their DB's, the corner at the top didn't move into his deep 1/3 because he had double TE to his side. So Harrison Bryant wasn't someone he was worried about walking by him. Actually, I believe that's JC Jackson and he was reading Baker the whole way. The next few frames of this play you see Baker realizing where he wants to go with this ball (njoku) but that his eyes have been over there too long. He ends up going back to double check the single high, but by then the manufactered pressures makes him moves his feet and bail out of what was still a reasonable pocket.
If this ball is out on time.... (Remember me mentioning that with the Landry throw against the Steelers?) It's a a big gain.
If Baker holds the middle safety to that side of the field then connects with Hooper down the boundary seam then it's an even bigger gain.
Right now Baker is struggling post snap in some very obvious and very terrible ways. He is absolutely one of the biggest, if not THEE biggest factor currently holding back this offense. NE's skill players aren't all the much better than ours but they moved the ball with efficiency. Yes, their defensive coaching and calls were superior. But they also had a QB with his eyes in the right places based on concepts his coaching staff gave him to execute.
There's still more to watch, but this is one of almost a half dozen bad plays I can put on Baker's shoulders before the 1st half even ended. It's just NOT a good look.
The video and post above showed Mark Sanchez icing these throws. Yes, it was against college competition. But he was throwing to college receivers and was a very average NFL QB. What does that say about our current signal caller then?
Feel free to tag anyone who was watching the game but didn't see "OuR rEcEiVeRs GeT oPeN"
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Re-watching the first half now. Game was over, chess speaking, during the first Patriots scoring drive. It's an absolute masterclass in play calling. It's almost like watching basketball and running a pick and roll until you get the matchup you wanted. Patriots really stayed in 21 and 22 personnel early and went at our starting IDL. They held up pretty alright in all honesty. But the idea was to run and throw on our backup IDL after hitting the body blows against the starters. Togiai, Elliot, Jackson... all lost their matchups and lost bad.
Our backups aren't NFL quality at the moment and if you're weak up the middle, then your whole defense is weak.
edit: A scary familiar theme where the offense finds itself completely fucked - straight drops. I would love to see it, but Bakers passer ratings when not using play action has to fall a TON. Especially this season. That out to Njoku that was housed by Duggar is a problem for 2 reasons. First - It's a roll to 2 shell post snap and Baker locked into the out the whole way VERY pre-determined throw. That corner was in trail and peeking back, which is why I mentioned 2 trap. He completely falls off DPJ running upfield onto Bakers eyes. Even if the read was good, it was a 17 yard throw WAY to low and inside. The read was bad, the throw was even worse. Lucky it wasn't caught or it could have gotten David killed.
Re-watching the first half now. Game was over, chess speaking, during the first Patriots scoring drive. It's an absolute masterclass in play calling. It's almost like watching basketball and running a pick and roll until you get the matchup you wanted. Patriots really stayed in 21 and 22 personnel early and went at our starting IDL. They held up pretty alright in all honesty. But the idea was to run and throw on our backup IDL after hitting the body blows against the starters. Togiai, Elliot, Jackson... all lost their matchups and lost bad.
Our backups aren't NFL quality at the moment and if you're weak up the middle, then your whole defense is weak.
edit: A scary familiar theme where the offense finds itself completely fucked - straight drops. I would love to see it, but Bakers passer ratings when not using play action has to fall a TON. Especially this season. That out to Njoku that was housed by Duggar is a problem for 2 reasons. First - It's a roll to 2 shell post snap and Baker locked into the out the whole way VERY pre-determined throw. That corner was in trail and peeking back, which is why I mentioned 2 trap. He completely falls off DPJ running upfield onto Bakers eyes. Even if the read was good, it was a 17 yard throw WAY to low and inside. The read was bad, the throw was even worse. Lucky it wasn't caught or it could have gotten David killed.
yes, but what does it mean ? It's one play with Njoku, who has had a history of drops since college. The trouble is, Jarvis is excellent, but playing hurt, Schwartz isn't quite ready for prime time, and Peoples-Jones is destined? to be a star wr next season.
that doesn't leave much in the passing game, and Baker is playing really well for a guy with a broken, damaged shoulder and a knee/foot injury. But he isn't playing up to par - of course not. I would have not let him play vs the squealers. Anyone who thinks our wr's are just fine - should watch next year's draft and FA.
No qb can complete passes to wr's that can't get open. Higgins - not fast at all. Knows a few tricks to get open a few times here and there is not going to make for wins.
I just found this - it isn't just me seeing it:
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-poor-wr-roi
Browns Poor Return on Investment at Wide Receiver Impossible to Ignore After Loss to Steelers
After an extremely poor performance by Cleveland Browns wide receivers against the Pittsburgh Steelers, it puts the focus on how poor the return on investment the Browns have gotten from their top two receivers.A healthy Jarvis would be a giant boost to this offense.
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Well Tannehill loses his big gun Derrek Henry, so what do the Titans do?
well, think about that. Tenn has A. J. Brown. Second round pick, pro bowl player. The tenn
head coach was hired in Jan 2018, So Vrable has a couple of years experience over Stephanski...to run with game plans etc.
It's a team game. It isn't Baker that is holding them back, nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly. It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.
well, think about that. Tenn has A. J. Brown. Second round pick, pro bowl player. The tenn
head coach was hired in Jan 2018, So Vrable has a couple of years experience over Stephanski...to run with game plans etc.
It's a team game. It isn't Baker that is holding them back, nobody could step in and force our wr's to get open quickly. It's a lot more complicated than to just bash Baker.
Right you are.. The defense was pathetic too.. Patriots 9\9 on 3rd down.. However, Baker did give New England a real short field with his interception. You may not like this- and I've said it- every QB occasionally has a bad game, but against the Patriots? That was one humongous stinker. From NFL.com where Baker has sunk to the #18 starting qb in their ratings..
"The numbers (71 yards and a pick on 21 throws) were rough, yet they didn't tell the full story of one of Baker's worst starts as a pro. He could have been picked off 3-4 times, panicked under pressure and looked lost when his first read was taken away. (what have I been preaching? take his first read away, and he's too damn slow finding anyone to throw to- and don't give me- well, his receivers were covered- NO THEY WEREN'T- NOT ON EVERY PLAY) There's a lot of criticism this week about Kevin Stefanski's lack of adjustments, but that also falls on a fourth-year quarterback when he so rarely digs himself out of holes."
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Re-watching the first half now. Game was over, chess speaking, during the first Patriots scoring drive. It's an absolute masterclass in play calling. It's almost like watching basketball and running a pick and roll until you get the matchup you wanted. Patriots really stayed in 21 and 22 personnel early and went at our starting IDL. They held up pretty alright in all honesty. But the idea was to run and throw on our backup IDL after hitting the body blows against the starters. Togiai, Elliot, Jackson... all lost their matchups and lost bad.
Our backups aren't NFL quality at the moment and if you're weak up the middle, then your whole defense is weak.
edit: A scary familiar theme where the offense finds itself completely fucked - straight drops. I would love to see it, but Bakers passer ratings when not using play action has to fall a TON. Especially this season. That out to Njoku that was housed by Duggar is a problem for 2 reasons. First - It's a roll to 2 shell post snap and Baker locked into the out the whole way VERY pre-determined throw. That corner was in trail and peeking back, which is why I mentioned 2 trap. He completely falls off DPJ running upfield onto Bakers eyes. Even if the read was good, it was a 17 yard throw WAY to low and inside. The read was bad, the throw was even worse. Lucky it wasn't caught or it could have gotten David killed.
yes, but what does it mean ? It's one play with Njoku, who has had a history of drops since college. The trouble is, Jarvis is excellent, but playing hurt, Schwartz isn't quite ready for prime time, and Peoples-Jones is destined? to be a star wr next season.
that doesn't leave much in the passing game, and Baker is playing really well for a guy with a broken, damaged shoulder and a knee/foot injury. But he isn't playing up to par - of course not. I would have not let him play vs the squealers. Anyone who thinks our wr's are just fine - should watch next year's draft and FA.
No qb can complete passes to wr's that can't get open. Higgins - not fast at all. Knows a few tricks to get open a few times here and there is not going to make for wins.
I just found this - it isn't just me seeing it:
https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/browns-maven-features/browns-poor-wr-roi
Browns Poor Return on Investment at Wide Receiver Impossible to Ignore After Loss to Steelers
After an extremely poor performance by Cleveland Browns wide receivers against the Pittsburgh Steelers, it puts the focus on how poor the return on investment the Browns have gotten from their top two receivers.A healthy Jarvis would be a giant boost to this offense.
yes, but what does it mean ? It's one play with Njoku, who has had a history of drops since college.
You haven't mentioned Njoku and the word drop in over a full season.
Stop.
I'm taking a piece of film, PRAYING, that this isn't what I'm finding because it's literally worst case scenario for this team. A team that has been historically bad the majority of my life BTW. I'm half you're guys' age at best. I didn't get to enjoy the winning of the 80's so these past few years have been my best hope. I don't want to see my QB causing problems but that is what it's looking like.
The ball isn't even out, this is purely a mental issue right now. Baker is a liability post snap and a bigger liability tying to place the ball more than 15 yards downfield.
It's a fact beyond contestation and I've given at least one big example every week. I'm showing you just what the reality of the situation is. I'm giving you a clear example, (with proof and spending time to put the work in) and telling you I'm also looking at another half dozen that were just plain bad. Plus a couple more that foreshadowed his struggles to come in this same game. All YOU or anyone else has to do, is to see this evidence and go "shucks, Baker isn't helping to elevate this team, hurt or not hurt".
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You failed to mention that LJ has thrown 8 interceptions this year compared to Baker’ 3 picks.
I look at LJ as a running back that happens to throw the ball.
You failed to mention that only during this season did Lamar's career interception total [26] finally surpass Baker's total from 2019 alone [21].
You failed to mention that only during this season did Lamar's career interception total [26] finally surpass Baker's total from 2019 alone [21].
wait. Let's look at the ratbird wr's in 2019. You fail to mention the difference in wr's.
Marquis Brown - FIRST ROUND PICK 2019.
Sammy Watkins - FIRST ROUND PICK 2014.
Rashod Bateman - FIRST ROUND PICK 2021.
really?
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You failed to mention that LJ has thrown 8 interceptions this year compared to Baker’ 3 picks.
I look at LJ as a running back that happens to throw the ball.
You failed to mention that only during this season did Lamar's career interception total [26] finally surpass Baker's total from 2019 alone [21].
You failed to mention that only during this season did Lamar's career interception total [26] finally surpass Baker's total from 2019 alone [21].
Not really comparable IMHO. Especially given the run heavy nature of the Ravens offense and the influence Lamar's legs have on opening throwing lanes for him.
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You failed to mention that only during this season did Lamar's career interception total [26] finally surpass Baker's total from 2019 alone [21].
wait. Let's look at the ratbird wr's in 2019. You fail to mention the difference in wr's.
Marquis Brown - FIRST ROUND PICK 2019.
Sammy Watkins - FIRST ROUND PICK 2014.
Rashod Bateman - FIRST ROUND PICK 2021.
really?
wait. Let's look at the ratbird wr's in 2019. You fail to mention the difference in wr's.
Marquis Brown - FIRST ROUND PICK 2019.
Sammy Watkins - FIRST ROUND PICK 2014.
Rashod Bateman - FIRST ROUND PICK 2021.
really?
Corey Coleman was a FIRST ROUND PICK.
If he was playing for the Ravens, would you honestly be attempting to use him as some type of justification for this arguement?
Brown is a vertical threat and gadget player. Watkins is a role player at best. Bateman is a rookie who has been wildly inconsistent. It's a passing game that scares almost nobody. Using this list of receivers and attempting to say they're something good is.... Retarded. They're a below average NFL corps. Might actually be one of the worst in the league IMHO.
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