I have had my fill, and I am going to vent: That's MY QB!
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The only intelligent commentary here has come from SDbacker and Zombo and yes I know how crazy that statement sounds.
So many of you are so quick to jump onto the bandwagon of hating Baker. You would rather tear down your own team to satisfy your urge to virtue signal and “fit in” than acknowledge the fact that this entire season, not just for the Browns, has been a shit show.
At the end of the day all that matters is our boys are in the thick of the AFC North title race. This division is so tightly contested that any one of the four teams could run the table and take the division crown. This team has demonstrated some resilience, and now it’s football weather time in our neck of the woods. Our team Is built from the ground up to make these sorts of late season, ground and pound close out runs. Health is the KEY!
The only intelligent commentary here has come from SDbacker and Zombo and yes I know how crazy that statement sounds.
So many of you are so quick to jump onto the bandwagon of hating Baker. You would rather tear down your own team to satisfy your urge to virtue signal and “fit in” than acknowledge the fact that this entire season, not just for the Browns, has been a shit show.
At the end of the day all that matters is our boys are in the thick of the AFC North title race. This division is so tightly contested that any one of the four teams could run the table and take the division crown. This team has demonstrated some resilience, and now it’s football weather time in our neck of the woods. Our team Is built from the ground up to make these sorts of late season, ground and pound close out runs. Health is the KEY!
The problem Gunner is some Baker Fan Boys around here take any legit criticism of Baker as "hate". That's me\us just objectively looking at how Beat Up Baker has played the last couple games. Is a 53 qbr acceptable to you? Well,, is sure as hell isn't to me.. Not if you're thinking we're somehow going to magically be able to beat the Ravens Sunday night with that level of QB play. Did you watch any of the Thanksgiving Day games? Shit, old Dandy Andy Dalton put on a better performance than Baker has the last two games. Prescott and Carr were playing how Baker used to be able to play before he got crippled.
So watch the Ratbirds stack eight in the box to shut down Chubb and Hunt- and dare Baker to beat them with his arm. Lotsa luck.
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And if you're willing to realize that Mayfield isn't Mahomes... then you can't pay him like Mahomes! For Baker to succeed, he needs $$ available to be spent on talented players at other positions. Look at the KC DB's.. outside of Mathieu that's the result of dumpster diving.
Flacco is actually a great example.. He got paid as though he himself was "the" reason for success even though everyone knew he was the beneficiary of a generational defense which they then couldn't keep/restock.. and paying Flacco torpedoed Ravens every season thereafter until his salary was off their books. Is that what Baker fanbois sincerely want - because that's exactly what we're going to get if Baker's contract is a similar % of the cap.
Don't look or think about absolute dollars.. look at % of the cap.
The response to this is therefore discussion of the salary range for him.. because the real question isn't "do you want Baker or not" it's "Do you want Baker and a top FA IDL next to Garrett or just Baker and we'll let Garrett get triple-teamed". It's a salary cap question, not something else which moves this into an emotional tirade.
And if you're willing to realize that Mayfield isn't Mahomes... then you can't pay him like Mahomes! For Baker to succeed, he needs $$ available to be spent on talented players at other positions. Look at the KC DB's.. outside of Mathieu that's the result of dumpster diving.
Flacco is actually a great example.. He got paid as though he himself was "the" reason for success even though everyone knew he was the beneficiary of a generational defense which they then couldn't keep/restock.. and paying Flacco torpedoed Ravens every season thereafter until his salary was off their books. Is that what Baker fanbois sincerely want - because that's exactly what we're going to get if Baker's contract is a similar % of the cap.
Don't look or think about absolute dollars.. look at % of the cap.
The response to this is therefore discussion of the salary range for him.. because the real question isn't "do you want Baker or not" it's "Do you want Baker and a top FA IDL next to Garrett or just Baker and we'll let Garrett get triple-teamed". It's a salary cap question, not something else which moves this into an emotional tirade.
Kelce and T. Hill are elite. Kelce was elite before Mahomes started; and shouldn't we also acknowledge Alex Smith QB'd KC to the playoffs?
Remember the concerns in Minnesota about Kirk Cousins in terms of whether he was worth the contract commitment? I saw that his ratings have improved quite a bit in the last 2 years. One would have to believe the addition of Jefferson to the WR Corps in the 2020 draft was helpful right?
Before last year, Diggs wanted out of that offense Stefanski was coordinating while many of their fans were convincing themselves they just had the wrong QB. Diggs went to Buffalo. Stefanski came to Cleveland; and Cousins improved to the 4th highest passer rating in the NFC at 105 (only behind Rodgers, Brees and Wilson) with 35 TD 13 INT 4264 YDS 67.6 comp%.
Meanwhile Stefanski came here and coached us to 11-5 and slapped Pittsburgh upside the head with 48 points in a playoff W at Pittsburgh. It's not just the players needed but it's also the system compatibility. Last year, Baker actually had an ideal TD:INT ratio of 26 TD to 8 INT when the players around him were healthy up front and on the perimeter. It was a nice change for him. Our defense was also a lot better at getting turnovers; and putting our offense in good opportunities for points. A lot of that collapsed this year and some of that has to do with the high volume of injuries fair or not. Have we always had a winning % over .500 with the volume of injuries this team has tried to play through this year?
To answer your question, Cap health relies heavily on how well you draft. When we didn't draft well from 1999 until the year we drafted MG, we overpaid on a ton of FAs that didn't help us. Now with the rookie salary caps, I think we can afford to offer Baker a keeper contract here.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
What I think is hilarious... The term "Game Manager".. Which was created and given to none other than Phil Simms.. Who won two rings as Bill Parcells QB.... Which I think is amazing considering Parcells did not want his QB's throwing passes to the middle of the field.. Everything was pretty much on the outer perimeter with passes the giants ran.. I still think Simms was a pretty smart QB with a decent enough arm... Of course.. the game has changed.. But when you get right down to it Every QB has to "Manage the Game" despite talent level...
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And if you're willing to realize that Mayfield isn't Mahomes... then you can't pay him like Mahomes! For Baker to succeed, he needs $$ available to be spent on talented players at other positions. Look at the KC DB's.. outside of Mathieu that's the result of dumpster diving.
Flacco is actually a great example.. He got paid as though he himself was "the" reason for success even though everyone knew he was the beneficiary of a generational defense which they then couldn't keep/restock.. and paying Flacco torpedoed Ravens every season thereafter until his salary was off their books. Is that what Baker fanbois sincerely want - because that's exactly what we're going to get if Baker's contract is a similar % of the cap.
Don't look or think about absolute dollars.. look at % of the cap.
The response to this is therefore discussion of the salary range for him.. because the real question isn't "do you want Baker or not" it's "Do you want Baker and a top FA IDL next to Garrett or just Baker and we'll let Garrett get triple-teamed". It's a salary cap question, not something else which moves this into an emotional tirade.
Kelce and T. Hill are elite. Kelce was elite before Mahomes started; and shouldn't we also acknowledge Alex Smith QB'd KC to the playoffs?
Remember the concerns in Minnesota about Kirk Cousins in terms of whether he was worth the contract commitment? I saw that his ratings have improved quite a bit in the last 2 years. One would have to believe the addition of Jefferson to the WR Corps in the 2020 draft was helpful right?
Before last year, Diggs wanted out of that offense Stefanski was coordinating while many of their fans were convincing themselves they just had the wrong QB. Diggs went to Buffalo. Stefanski came to Cleveland; and Cousins improved to the 4th highest passer rating in the NFC at 105 (only behind Rodgers, Brees and Wilson) with 35 TD 13 INT 4264 YDS 67.6 comp%.
Meanwhile Stefanski came here and coached us to 11-5 and slapped Pittsburgh upside the head with 48 points in a playoff W at Pittsburgh. It's not just the players needed but it's also the system compatibility. Last year, Baker actually had an ideal TD:INT ratio of 26 TD to 8 INT when the players around him were healthy up front and on the perimeter. It was a nice change for him. Our defense was also a lot better at getting turnovers; and putting our offense in good opportunities for points. A lot of that collapsed this year and some of that has to do with the high volume of injuries fair or not. Have we always had a winning % over .500 with the volume of injuries this team has tried to play through this year?
To answer your question, Cap health relies heavily on how well you draft. When we didn't draft well from 1999 until the year we drafted MG, we overpaid on a ton of FAs that didn't help us. Now with the rookie salary caps, I think we can afford to offer Baker a keeper contract here.
Cap health relies heavily on how well you draft
Flacco's years at the "peak" of his deal [>10% of cap] started in 2014 and ended in... 2018. During his entire thanks-for-that-SB contract, they won 1 playoff game - his first year after the contract, 2014, vs PIT. 2014 lost the second and 2018 which you may call Lamar's first season.. lost the first. Zero playoff appearances in between. Argue about the 10,11% area but the 14-15% years of 2016-2018 are inexcusable. The part that can be tough to properly analyze/understand is that the contracts ramp up in % of cap because the contract value increases over time..
The drafting of the Ravens was, as always, really good -- and yet no playoff appearances that entire time because they kept not being able to resign anyone. They even drafted long-time contributors in the 5th [Judon] and 6th [Chuck Clark] rounds.
The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown -
At the end of the day, I'm fine with a healthy Baker being the QB for another four or five years if he signs a relatively affordable contract extension. There's no way I want to see the Browns sign him to a $40 mill a year contract - he's not that guy. But a Tannehill-type extension? Sure.
I totally agree with SdBacker's critique of Baker's limitations, but if he signs a moderate contract extension, you won't have to make cuts all over the place to afford it. In a perfect world I'd like an upgrade over Baker, but that seems pretty unlikely. Get him healthy, get him signed to a mid-level starting QB extension, and fix the problems around him.
I just don't see it happening for the Browns this season. Too many injuries and too many issues with the team right now. The foundation, though, is here for success.
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Cap health relies heavily on how well you draft
Flacco's years at the "peak" of his deal [>10% of cap] started in 2014 and ended in... 2018. During his entire thanks-for-that-SB contract, they won 1 playoff game - his first year after the contract, 2014, vs PIT. 2014 lost the second and 2018 which you may call Lamar's first season.. lost the first. Zero playoff appearances in between. Argue about the 10,11% area but the 14-15% years of 2016-2018 are inexcusable. The part that can be tough to properly analyze/understand is that the contracts ramp up in % of cap because the contract value increases over time..
The drafting of the Ravens was, as always, really good -- and yet no playoff appearances that entire time because they kept not being able to resign anyone. They even drafted long-time contributors in the 5th [Judon] and 6th [Chuck Clark] rounds.
Flacco's years at the "peak" of his deal [>10% of cap] started in 2014 and ended in... 2018. During his entire thanks-for-that-SB contract, they won 1 playoff game - his first year after the contract, 2014, vs PIT. 2014 lost the second and 2018 which you may call Lamar's first season.. lost the first. Zero playoff appearances in between. Argue about the 10,11% area but the 14-15% years of 2016-2018 are inexcusable. The part that can be tough to properly analyze/understand is that the contracts ramp up in % of cap because the contract value increases over time..
The drafting of the Ravens was, as always, really good -- and yet no playoff appearances that entire time because they kept not being able to resign anyone. They even drafted long-time contributors in the 5th [Judon] and 6th [Chuck Clark] rounds.
All of this is true, but Flacco was due a contract extension right after he helped win a Super Bowl.
I don't see how Baker has anything resembling that type of leverage. If I was the Browns, I'd aim to sign him to a Tannehill-type extension.
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Flacco's years at the "peak" of his deal [>10% of cap] started in 2014 and ended in... 2018. During his entire thanks-for-that-SB contract, they won 1 playoff game - his first year after the contract, 2014, vs PIT. 2014 lost the second and 2018 which you may call Lamar's first season.. lost the first. Zero playoff appearances in between. Argue about the 10,11% area but the 14-15% years of 2016-2018 are inexcusable. The part that can be tough to properly analyze/understand is that the contracts ramp up in % of cap because the contract value increases over time..
The drafting of the Ravens was, as always, really good -- and yet no playoff appearances that entire time because they kept not being able to resign anyone. They even drafted long-time contributors in the 5th [Judon] and 6th [Chuck Clark] rounds.
All of this is true, but Flacco was due a contract extension right after he helped win a Super Bowl.
I don't see how Baker has anything resembling that type of leverage. If I was the Browns, I'd aim to sign him to a Tannehill-type extension.
All of this is true, but Flacco was due a contract extension right after he helped win a Super Bowl.
I don't see how Baker has anything resembling that type of leverage. If I was the Browns, I'd aim to sign him to a Tannehill-type extension.
I would be okay with the $25-$30 mill range for Mayfield with incentives and escalators that are performance driven.. So to speak..
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
I just call 'em as I see 'em. And there have been multiple games this season where the QB position had hurt us. Now, we don't say that nearly as much with Baker as we have with any of the other QB's this century...but sometimes his accuracy is alarming. Not as bad as Derick Anderson....but....
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
All of this is true, but Flacco was due a contract extension right after he helped win a Super Bowl.
I don't see how Baker has anything resembling that type of leverage. If I was the Browns, I'd aim to sign him to a Tannehill-type extension.
I would be okay with the $25-$30 mill range for Mayfield with incentives and escalators that are performance driven.. So to speak..
I would be okay with the $25-$30 mill range for Mayfield with incentives and escalators that are performance driven.. So to speak..
I think Baker and bride can get by on that...... especially with his other part time jobs.
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I just call 'em as I see 'em. And there have been multiple games this season where the QB position had hurt us. Now, we don't say that nearly as much with Baker as we have with any of the other QB's this century...but sometimes his accuracy is alarming. Not as bad as Derick Anderson....but....
I just call 'em as I see 'em. And there have been multiple games this season where the QB position had hurt us. Now, we don't say that nearly as much with Baker as we have with any of the other QB's this century...but sometimes his accuracy is alarming. Not as bad as Derick Anderson....but....
Well.. It's kind of hard to be consistently accurate when you have basically one arm tied to your side...
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Can I get a picture of Clipboard Jesus???
? ? Yeah ! I had to ...
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Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds Sk% NY/A ANY/A 4QC GWD AV 2005 22 GNB 12 3 0 9 16 56.3 65 0 0.0 1 6.3 3 16 4.1 1.3 7.2 21.7 39.8 3 28 15.8 1.95 -0.42 0 2006 23 GNB 12 2 0 6 15 40.0 46 0 0.0 0 0.0 2 16 3.1 3.1 7.7 23.0 48.2 7.9 3 18 16.7 1.56 1.56 0 2007 24 GNB 12 2 0 20 28 71.4 218 1 3.6 0 0.0 9 43 7.8 8.5 10.9 109.0 106.0 78.8 3 24 9.7 6.26 6.90 1 2008 25 GNB QB 12 16 16 6-10-0 341 536 63.6 4038 28 5.2 13 2.4 184 71 7.5 7.5 11.8 252.4 93.8 62.9 34 231 6.0 6.68 6.64 1 2 15
Mayfield's 4th season.. 10 games inYear Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds Sk% NY/A ANY/A 4QC GWD AV 2018 23 CLE QB 6 14 13 6-7-0 310 486 63.8 3725 27 5.6 14 2.9 171 71 7.7 7.5 12.0 266.1 93.7 51.2 25 173 4.9 6.95 6.77 3 4 10 2019 24 CLE QB 6 16 16 6-10-0 317 534 59.4 3827 22 4.1 21 3.9 179 89 7.2 6.2 12.1 239.2 78.8 54.4 40 285 7.0 6.17 5.29 1 1 11 2020 25 CLE QB 6 16 16 11-5-0 305 486 62.8 3563 26 5.3 8 1.6 188 75 7.3 7.7 11.7 222.7 95.9 72.2 26 162 5.1 6.64 6.96 2 2 14 2021 26 CLE qb 6 10 10 5-5-0 176 275 64.0 2166 10 3.6 6 2.2 100 71 7.9 7.6 12.3 216.6 91.3 37.2 27 166 8.9 6.62 6.39 ? ? Yeah ! I had to ...
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds Sk% NY/A ANY/A 4QC GWD AV 2005 22 GNB 12 3 0 9 16 56.3 65 0 0.0 1 6.3 3 16 4.1 1.3 7.2 21.7 39.8 3 28 15.8 1.95 -0.42 0 2006 23 GNB 12 2 0 6 15 40.0 46 0 0.0 0 0.0 2 16 3.1 3.1 7.7 23.0 48.2 7.9 3 18 16.7 1.56 1.56 0 2007 24 GNB 12 2 0 20 28 71.4 218 1 3.6 0 0.0 9 43 7.8 8.5 10.9 109.0 106.0 78.8 3 24 9.7 6.26 6.90 1 2008 25 GNB QB 12 16 16 6-10-0 341 536 63.6 4038 28 5.2 13 2.4 184 71 7.5 7.5 11.8 252.4 93.8 62.9 34 231 6.0 6.68 6.64 1 2 15
Mayfield's 4th season.. 10 games inYear Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% 1D Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds Sk% NY/A ANY/A 4QC GWD AV 2018 23 CLE QB 6 14 13 6-7-0 310 486 63.8 3725 27 5.6 14 2.9 171 71 7.7 7.5 12.0 266.1 93.7 51.2 25 173 4.9 6.95 6.77 3 4 10 2019 24 CLE QB 6 16 16 6-10-0 317 534 59.4 3827 22 4.1 21 3.9 179 89 7.2 6.2 12.1 239.2 78.8 54.4 40 285 7.0 6.17 5.29 1 1 11 2020 25 CLE QB 6 16 16 11-5-0 305 486 62.8 3563 26 5.3 8 1.6 188 75 7.3 7.7 11.7 222.7 95.9 72.2 26 162 5.1 6.64 6.96 2 2 14 2021 26 CLE qb 6 10 10 5-5-0 176 275 64.0 2166 10 3.6 6 2.2 100 71 7.9 7.6 12.3 216.6 91.3 37.2 27 166 8.9 6.62 6.39 One striking omission is the state of the game that Baker is playing compared to Roger's over the same span of years (1st 4): Good QBs put up much better #'s than Baker here and now, including Rogers. Baker is hovering around 22nd - 26th in all major passing stats in the here and now. That is who he is. Comparing his stats to Roger's 1st four years is poppycock. Baker is ringing in at about 25th in today's conditions You want him paid like a top 5 QB?
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I just call 'em as I see 'em. And there have been multiple games this season where the QB position had hurt us. Now, we don't say that nearly as much with Baker as we have with any of the other QB's this century...but sometimes his accuracy is alarming. Not as bad as Derick Anderson....but....
Well.. It's kind of hard to be consistently accurate when you have basically one arm tied to your side...
Well.. It's kind of hard to be consistently accurate when you have basically one arm tied to your side...
If that's the case, then we DO have a healthy QB that knows the system well, that we pay $6 mil to be the backup. So, that's either NOT the case, or it IS the case but Keenum isn't as good as an injured Baker...in which case Case's agent got him a great deal.
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Well.. It's kind of hard to be consistently accurate when you have basically one arm tied to your side...
If that's the case, then we DO have a healthy QB that knows the system well, that we pay $6 mil to be the backup. So, that's either NOT the case, or it IS the case but Keenum isn't as good as an injured Baker...in which case Case's agent got him a great deal.
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