Could Browns Release Lewis Today?
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So that means he deserves a $3 million roster bonus and we deserve to remain stuck on pause with his ass?
Dude you're all over the damn place, so try and focus. This thread claimed Lewis might get cut YESTERDAY. He got the bonus months ago. I was NOT debating Lewis receiving a bonus, I was saying he was not one of the cut downs.
Focus man. Stay on topic.
This thread claimed Lewis might get cut YESTERDAY. He got the bonus months ago. I was NOT debating Lewis receiving a bonus, I was saying he was not one of the cut downs.
Focus man. Stay on topic.
I didn't realize I ever left the running game concerns I started this thread with. Are we or aren't we giving up an ACTIVE roster spot for a RB that doesn't look like he can RUN any more? If so, color me concerned because if anyone has placed a SOBER eye on Jamal Lewis this preseason - they can't possibly be excited about his 33% of the RB trio right now. This conversation has to go DEEPER than him merely making the team Chris. It was started before your 20/20 hindsight got into focus. You claimed you were right about how valuable lewis is because he made the team. I explained the ONLY reason he made the team was because he got a roster bonus so there's no possible way Mangini can explain to Lerner that he cut the SAME guy he got randy to fork over the $3 million roster bonus for. Not sure how this seems off topic to you but then again I'd have to think Piaget's critical thinking also applies to you.
Seems to me, we're down to 3 RBs and only 1 of them appeared to be completely healthy this preseason. I can't control that the 1 healthy guy vastly outperforming the other 2 is a rookie. All I CAN do is remind you it worked out okay for the Houston Texans in 2008 when they started their rookie RB over the 2 RBs who were over the hill (Chris Brown and Ahman Green). That said, if Davis gets hurt while Harrison is dinged up again - it leaves us our running game relying on the dead ankles of Jamal Lewis. We need to get younger and healthier at that position asap.
- Tom F.
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This thread claimed Lewis might get cut YESTERDAY. He got the bonus months ago. I was NOT debating Lewis receiving a bonus, I was saying he was not one of the cut downs.
Focus man. Stay on topic.
I didn't realize I ever left the running game concerns I started this thread with. Are we or aren't we giving up an ACTIVE roster spot for a RB that doesn't look like he can RUN any more? If so, color me concerned because if anyone has placed a SOBER eye on Jamal Lewis this preseason - they can't possibly be excited about his 33% of the RB trio right now. This conversation has to go DEEPER than him merely making the team Chris. It was started before your 20/20 hindsight got into focus. You claimed you were right about how valuable lewis is because he made the team. I explained the ONLY reason he made the team was because he got a roster bonus so there's no possible way Mangini can explain to Lerner that he cut the SAME guy he got randy to fork over the $3 million roster bonus for. Not sure how this seems off topic to you but then again I'd have to think Piaget's critical thinking also applies to you.
Seems to me, we're down to 3 RBs and only 1 of them appeared to be completely healthy this preseason. I can't control that the 1 healthy guy vastly outperforming the other 2 is a rookie. All I CAN do is remind you it worked out okay for the Houston Texans in 2008 when they started their rookie RB over the 2 RBs who were over the hill (Chris Brown and Ahman Green). That said, if Davis gets hurt while Harrison is dinged up again - it leaves us our running game relying on the dead ankles of Jamal Lewis. We need to get younger and healthier at that position asap.
- Tom F.
I AM staying on topic. Are we or aren't we giving up a roster spot for a RB that doesn't look like he can RUN any more?
We are keeping a roster spot.. for a guy who CAN STILL RUN.
Mangini says he can.. I 'm inclined to trust Mangini's opinion on this more than yours and the other yutz naysayers on this board. He sees him every day. You guys have seen him for a handful of plays.. IN PRESEAON.. PRESEASON MEANS DICK..
Unless you want to apply this formula across the board.. and not to just Jamal lewis...
Thomas jones 2.1 per carry in preseason.cut him too
Steve Slayton 2.9 cut him
Jerome harrison 1.3 cut him
LaDanian Tomlinson 2.3 per carry ..he sucks
Reggie Bush 1.7 per carry .. trade him
Ladell Bett.. Guess his thousand yard season of 2 years ago was a fluke. 1.9 per carry cut him
McClain from Baltimore.. 2.0 per carry.. last year was a fluke..cut him
Maroney 2.3 sucks
Marchawn Lynch 2.7 per carry... just leave him suspended
Chris Johnson of Tenneseee... Rookie season must be a one year wonder 3.1 per carry.. cut his butt too
LenDale White.. 2.8 per carry.. cut his unfattened butt.
Justin Fargas.. Guess his thousand yard seasons were history.. 1.7 per carry cut him
Get my point.. Just cuz Jamal's preseason numbers are down..does not mean he cannot play.
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Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
"I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said." William F Buckley -
I AM staying on topic. Are we or aren't we giving up a roster spot for a RB that doesn't look like he can RUN any more?
We are keeping a roster spot.. for a guy who CAN STILL RUN.
Mangini says he can.. I 'm inclined to trust Mangini's opinion on this more than yours and the other yutz naysayers on this board. He sees him every day. You guys have seen him for a handful of plays.. IN PRESEAON.. PRESEASON MEANS DICK..
Unless you want to apply this formula across the board.. and not to just Jamal lewis...
Thomas jones 2.1 per carry in preseason.cut him too
Steve Slayton 2.9 cut him
Jerome harrison 1.3 cut him
LaDanian Tomlinson 2.3 per carry ..he sucks
Reggie Bush 1.7 per carry .. trade him
Ladell Bett.. Guess his thousand yard season of 2 years ago was a fluke. 1.9 per carry cut him
McClain from Baltimore.. 2.0 per carry.. last year was a fluke..cut him
Maroney 2.3 sucks
Marchawn Lynch 2.7 per carry... just leave him suspended
Chris Johnson of Tenneseee... Rookie season must be a one year wonder 3.1 per carry.. cut his butt too
LenDale White.. 2.8 per carry.. cut his unfattened butt.
Justin Fargas.. Guess his thousand yard seasons were history.. 1.7 per carry cut him
Get my point.. Just cuz Jamal's preseason numbers are down..does not mean he cannot play.
Get my point.. Just cuz Jamal's preseason numbers are down..does not mean he cannot play.
LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
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This is from ESPN...
Trending down: RB Jamal Lewis
.... Of Lewis' 279 carries last year, 135 gained two yards or less, while only 18 gained 11 yards or more. ....Lewis produced just four touchdowns on 18 carries inside the five....
There was a lot more, but you get the drift.
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I think we'll be okay. Alo really likes this Peerman kid and I remember him chubbing for him around draft time. I really wanted Sutton but we had to get somebody. I think the key in all this is how healthy can Harrison be? He has become a forgotten man after being injured most of the preseason.
I'm fine with keeping Lewis for now, there was no other choice. Like Tom said, this regime inherited the RB problem and had a ton of holes to fill. Staying with Lewis and his contract that Phillip gave him--and hoping to squeeze one last year out of him is about all they could do.
Here's what I want to see: If Lewis is clearly struggling out the gate they need to get Davis and Harrison seriously involved. If Lewis goes into Operation Dildofer by pouting so be it, this ain't RAC 'n ROLLS fanny tapping anymore, you play the best guys that give you the best chance to win.
Lewis can still be valuable, and to be honest I like him in the screen game with Quinn at QB. Lewis can still run in space and the second level, the problem is his slow ass tap dancing before the hole closes, plus he can't pop it outside or get off tackle before it closes. He also goes down way too easy until he gets his momentum behind him, hence making him a not very good short yardage back regardless of size.
Let's get behind this Peerman and see what he's got. It wouldn't hurt to keep Jennings around on the PS or pick someone else up and stash them there.
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I think we'll be okay. Alo really likes this Peerman kid and I remember him chubbing for him around draft time. I really wanted Sutton but we had to get somebody. I think the key in all this is how healthy can Harrison be? He has become a forgotten man after being injured most of the preseason.
I'm fine with keeping Lewis for now, there was no other choice. Like Tom said, this regime inherited the RB problem and had a ton of holes to fill. Staying with Lewis and his contract that Phillip gave him--and hoping to squeeze one last year out of him is about all they could do.
Here's what I want to see: If Lewis is clearly struggling out the gate they need to get Davis and Harrison seriously involved. If Lewis goes into Operation Dildofer by pouting so be it, this ain't RAC 'n ROLLS fanny tapping anymore, you play the best guys that give you the best chance to win.
Lewis can still be valuable, and to be honest I like him in the screen game with Quinn at QB. Lewis can still run in space and the second level, the problem is his slow ass tap dancing before the hole closes, plus he can't pop it outside or get off tackle before it closes. He also goes down way too easy until he gets his momentum behind him, hence making him a not very good short yardage back regardless of size.
Let's get behind this Peerman and see what he's got. It wouldn't hurt to keep Jennings around on the PS or pick someone else up and stash them there.
I think we'll be okay. Alo really likes this Peerman kid and I remember him chubbing for him around draft time. I really wanted Sutton but we had to get somebody. I think the key in all this is how healthy can Harrison be? He has become a forgotten man after being injured most of the preseason.
I'm fine with keeping Lewis for now, there was no other choice. Like Tom said, this regime inherited the RB problem and had a ton of holes to fill. Staying with Lewis and his contract that Phillip gave him--and hoping to squeeze one last year out of him is about all they could do.
Here's what I want to see: If Lewis is clearly struggling out the gate they need to get Davis and Harrison seriously involved. If Lewis goes into Operation Dildofer by pouting so be it, this ain't RAC 'n ROLLS fanny tapping anymore, you play the best guys that give you the best chance to win.
Lewis can still be valuable, and to be honest I like him in the screen game with Quinn at QB. Lewis can still run in space and the second level, the problem is his slow ass tap dancing before the hole closes, plus he can't pop it outside or get off tackle before it closes. He also goes down way too easy until he gets his momentum behind him, hence making him a not very good short yardage back regardless of size.
Let's get behind this Peerman and see what he's got. It wouldn't hurt to keep Jennings around on the PS or pick someone else up and stash them there.
I even like Harrison if we can ever get him healthy enough and complete enough for a workload that exceeds 5 plays. His previous obstacles have been injuries at inopportune times and BLOCKING to protect QBs from the blitz. When he plays - I can only summarize what I see as exciting and intrigued to see more.
Like Riff says when you take away the RAC - you don't have to worry about spelling crack anymore.
- Tom F.
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This is from ESPN...
Trending down: RB Jamal Lewis
.... Of Lewis' 279 carries last year, 135 gained two yards or less, while only 18 gained 11 yards or more. ....Lewis produced just four touchdowns on 18 carries inside the five....
There was a lot more, but you get the drift.
This is from ESPN...
There was a lot more, but you get the drift.
Might as well take a look at the whole article.
About The Browns . . .
Just pointing out some stats. . .
1. No matter who plays quarterback, Braylon Edwards and Jamal Lewis are just as important to improving the Browns' offense. Both had dramatic declines last season, and the regression began long before the quarterbacks started getting hurt. I'm going to use some material compiled by Pro Football Outsiders coming from their new book, "Football Outsiders Almanac 2009." Some of the material is complicated, but lots of great stuff can be found in more than 500 pages.
2. In 2008, Lewis had three runs for more than 20 yards, his longest being a 27-yarder. In 2007, he had runs of 66, 47, 31, 31, plus six other runs of more than 20 yards. That means 10 runs of at least 20 yards compared with three last year.
3. Last season, 135 of Lewis' 279 runs were for 2 or fewer yards. That was 48 percent, up from 44 percent in 2007. He had 40 runs that resulted in no yards gained or a loss. Lewis also ranked fifth in the NFL in percentage of dropped passes (16 percent), even higher than Edwards (11 percent). That's why simply looking at Lewis running for 1,002 yards doesn't tell the true story of 2008.
4. Nor was the decline in Lewis' running due strictly to the Browns losing all their quarterbacks to injury, a situation which allowed defenses to stack the line to defend the run. When Derek Anderson started the first eight games, Lewis had 535 yards, 3.7 yards per carry. In the last eight, it was 467 yards, 3.4 yards per carry. Both numbers were way down from his 4.4-yard average in 2007 when he gained 1,304 yards.
5. Much is made of the Browns being 10-3 when Lewis receives at least 20 carries. But part of the reason he's getting 20 carries in those games is the team is playing well, he is running well and that leads to more carries. They were 7-1 in 2007 and 3-2 in 2008 when he carried the ball at least 20 times.
6. This is not to write off Lewis, or immediately write in impressive rookie James Davis as the starting running back. It is to say that this is a critical year for the 30-year-old Lewis, who needs to show he can occasionally break off a big run. If not, then the Browns need to use some sort of dual-back system with Lewis and a younger, faster back. They play six games (two each against Pittsburgh and Baltimore) against teams that ranked in the top five in run defense in 2008. Somehow, the Browns must find a way to get some yardage on the ground or it will be a very, very long season.
7. Just as critical is Edwards. The Outsiders counted 15 dropped passes for him, most in the NFL. He also had nine passes in his direction that were intercepted, that was No. 2 in the NFL. Finally, his nine penalties ranked 16th in the NFL. These are all extremely negative stats, but they are all things that can be improved upon. Penalties can be reduced, passes can be caught and a receiver can fight hard with a defensive back to prevent interceptions.
8. In 2007, Edwards had a Pro Bowl season with 80 catches, (16 for TDs). He did not rank in the top 20 in penalties. His 12 drops were second in the NFL. Nor was he in the top 20 in having passes intercepted. Point being, he can improve on his decline in 2008, especially since Edwards will play this season at age 26.
9. Joshua Cribbs seeing regular work at receiver should help Edwards. If Cribbs is on the field often, he is a threat to catch short-and mid-range passes. The same is true of slot receiver Mike Furrey. Compare that to a heavy dose of Syndric Steptoe and Donte Stallworth as the other receivers besides Edwards in 2008. Furrey is the third-down possession receiver the Browns have lacked since Joe Jurevicius in 2007.
10. In the past three seasons, 100 of the 177 passes Furrey caught have been for first downs. That is especially impressive since he averages about 10 yards per catch. That means he knows where to run to get the needed yards to keep drives alive. The Browns had no one to do that last season.
11. Cribbs also could help Lewis as another running threat. If he is on the field often, opposing defenses will have to pay attention to Cribbs when he goes in motion. That might create some holes for Lewis.
12. The Browns have two rookie receivers in Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi, and odds are at least one should be a factor this season. But it's a relief to know the Browns are not counting on both to make a major impact.
13. You like the Browns' screen passes in the preseason? They do look good, especially since the Browns threw the fewest screens in the NFL over the previous two seasons. The Browns also ran the fewest draw plays in the league in 2008.
14. What about Robert Royal at tight end? The Outsiders wrote: "He posted career highs in games started, receptions and yardage last year, and still was the second worst tight end in the league according to DVOA [their rating system]. Cleveland fans who were accustomed to watching Kellen Winslow do his thing should treat the news that Royal will be competing with Steve Heiden for the starting tight end job with a mixture of shock and disgust."
15. When it comes to the Winslow situation, The Outsiders whiffed, just as Winslow did on many of his blocks. Winslow was called seven times for offensive pass interference because his achy knees had trouble motoring away from defenders. His blocking was awful. He is a gifted receiver when he touches the ball, but has so many other issues. If healthy, Heiden is a solid tight end. By the end of the season, the Browns may have a number of problems -- but I doubt tight end will be a major one.
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Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
Sutton went to Carolina, but I'm liking the Peerman pickup a lot.
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Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
You and I are on the same page in that we need a young starting RB. We needed it last season and we for sure need it this season. We'll see if Davis can make it happen. I am HOPING Mangini is not like RAC and just shuttle in JD for a 2-3 touch game where he tears it up and then sits. Harrison is still Harrison, so I think he can be the Leon W type guy. We'll see.
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Get my point.. Just cuz Jamal's preseason numbers are down..does not mean he cannot play.
LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
This is exactly what happened to James Davis in college that made his draft stock fall from a low 2nd to 3rd round prospect 2 years ago.. To the late draft spot he got picked by us this year..His team collapsed around him... It was not his dropoff.. if your team sucks..it effects you.
As for the surgeries.. I don't know how he feels and neither do you. ... I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense. I still say I will go with Mangini's asessment..because neither you or I have seen enough of him this year to truly evaluate where he is... Mangini sees him daily.
Am I being optomistic.. yes... until I see him play in 2-3 games.. 30-60 carries.. I'm not sure what he has left. Could you be right? ..Yes... but not based upon what you saw in preseason.. i think that's a load.. (per my prior posting above.)
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LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
This is exactly what happened to James Davis in college that made his draft stock fall from a low 2nd to 3rd round prospect 2 years ago.. To the late draft spot he got picked by us this year..His team collapsed around him... It was not his dropoff.. if your team sucks..it effects you.
As for the surgeries.. I don't know how he feels and neither do you. ... I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense. I still say I will go with Mangini's asessment..because neither you or I have seen enough of him this year to truly evaluate where he is... Mangini sees him daily.
Am I being optomistic.. yes... until I see him play in 2-3 games.. 30-60 carries.. I'm not sure what he has left. Could you be right? ..Yes... but not based upon what you saw in preseason.. i think that's a load.. (per my prior posting above.)
I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense.
Speaking of, does anybody know if Venus & Serena will be lining up in the middle against us opening day? I know the judge overturned the suspension, but Goodell has a bit of ego about him, I'm guessing he's seeking an alternative course to proving he's the boss.
(This is just the latest info I have. I was hoping somebody had some better news)
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LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
This is exactly what happened to James Davis in college that made his draft stock fall from a low 2nd to 3rd round prospect 2 years ago.. To the late draft spot he got picked by us this year..His team collapsed around him... It was not his dropoff.. if your team sucks..it effects you.
As for the surgeries.. I don't know how he feels and neither do you. ... I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense. I still say I will go with Mangini's asessment..because neither you or I have seen enough of him this year to truly evaluate where he is... Mangini sees him daily.
Am I being optomistic.. yes... until I see him play in 2-3 games.. 30-60 carries.. I'm not sure what he has left. Could you be right? ..Yes... but not based upon what you saw in preseason.. i think that's a load.. (per my prior posting above.)
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
I just did but you're too angry to give me anything deeper than the world according to Homer Simpson after someone pissed in his Wheaties.
I mean why should we consider that Jerome Harrison averaged 7.23 yards per carry on the SAME team during the SAME season? You DO realize that doubles Jamal's 3.6 yards per carry right? Anyway, here's what Harrison did on the ground in 2008: 34 carries for 246 yards. Do the math BEFORE you give me the old testament and new testament of excuses for Lewis.
And now THIS year you magically see NO holes for Jamal but there's been plenty of holes for our other backs. Sounds VERY similar to Harrison ONLY getting the good blocking in 08 while ALL Jamal's blockers allegedly sucked. I call this little Harrison and Davis phenomenon HITTING the hole BEFORE it closes. More specifically, no excuses or finger pointing required. That's what you want from your backs, which is why you don't want them running on dead ankles. Jamal ain't being patient - he just can't get there anymore so that's how you're choosing to describe him. I've only seen him looking okay on screens.
And by the way, don't go insulting people about their football backgrounds you literally have ZERO knowledge about. I'd like to think we can be 2 fans just shooting the breeze about our favorite team without you flying off the handle and accusing people of not trusting Mangini. Come on. I'm merely pointing out Jamal's wheels look dead since 2007 and I've got the reconstructive surgery facts supporting it as well as the decrease in yards per carry by almost a full yard since 07. And we're also discussing why there's holes for all the backs except for Jamal. Seeing how Baltimore got impatient with waiting for him to return to form - doesn't that make 2007 more of an exception to the rule over the last 4 seasons? I don't think Ozzie Newsome is stupid.
- Tom F.
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So I guess Harrisons 1.3 yard per carry average this preseason is valid too then?
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Im with SEZ and on the side of wait and see on JLew- but not as a feature back. Daboll will have to use him on third down [opposite of Harrison] to open up the screen option, tough yards in the middle or pass protection. Now I dont know of the complaining /whining at the sidelines he is accused of doing - I am believing that Mangini is the coach RAC wasnt...
and can contain the negative and let his passion become a plus for the Browns. but like you Im a fan and a dreamer. The season still hasnt started yet DAMMIT and I cant wait.
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Lewis is done. Been saying that since 2 years ago.
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So I guess Harrisons 1.3 yard per carry average this preseason is valid too then?
So you're leaving out what James Davis averaged? Thatta boy! I figured you'd refuse the facts I just gave you when I compared Lewis' 3.6 yards per carry in 08 to Harrison's 7.23 yards per carry. Like I said, Harrison had 34 carries for 246 yards. Jamal put us to sleep.
Here's what the well-respected and highly paid professional (ESPN's Adam Schefter) had to say:
"It'll be a very long year in Cleveland if Lewis is the lead back, and he definitely didn't earn a roster spot with dreadful preseason play. We still wouldn't rule out the Browns cutting Lewis before the season. His $2.4M salary will be guaranteed if he's on the Week 1 roster, and clearly he isn't worth it. Look for James Davis to end up leading Browns backs in touches in 2009."
Here's something else worthy of note because it marks the FIRST time Ozzie Newsome started to weigh the pros and cons of Jamal's wear and tear vrs upside for his franchise. Pay attention to the date and look where the problem was:
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: November 25, 2004
"Baltimore Ravens running back Jamal Lewis, the National Football League's leading rusher last season, will miss Sunday's game against the New England Patriots because of a sprained right ankle." Since this is near the end of 04 let's take a peak at 05-08 BEFORE another ankle reconstruction this offseason:
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Att Yds TD Lng ypc
2005 26 BAL RB 31 15 15 269 906 3 25 3.4
2006 27 BAL RB 31 16 16 314 1132 9 52 3.6
2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 66 4.4
2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 29 3.6
And then came this:
"Read the latest fantasy news about Jamal Lewis at Rotoworld.com. ... More ankle surgery didn't do the trick this time. Don't be surprised if James Davis..."
If we finished the last sentence above it would read "Don't be surprised if James Davis looks like he's the ONLY RB that receives GOOD blocking." If Harrison can double Jamal's avg per carry - my guess is Davis might be able to triple it as he gets some experience ahead. I call this little phenomenon hitting the hole BEFORE it closes.
Sez, the REASON I want a different RB starting for us is because then I can feel like we're better than a team willing to settle for less. We haven't exactly been SPOILED with winning records or great RBs since 1999. Wasn't it nice back in the day when Greg Pruitt could score from anywhere on the field? WPBDawg showed us in this thread Jamal even had trouble scoring from inside the 5. The stat above also shows us Lewis' longest run in 08 was 29 yards inspite of 16 weeks of opportunity. Wanna bet at least 30 starting RBs bettered that longest run? Let's stop blaming everyone BUT Jamal and understand what excited us fans about the night Harrison broke an 85 yard TD run at Buffalo in a close game we would WIN because of that run. You can pretend it's always bad blocking for Jamal all you want but Davis and Harrison are hitting the holes before they close while you're explaining Jamal's patience and pointing fingers.
In conclusion: EVERY time this franchise has been good we've had the following RBs giving us fond memories: Marion Motley, Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt, Mike Pruitt, Ernest Byner, Kevin Mack, and even Leroys Hoards. The warm fuzzies got reinforced everytime these guys scored or setup scores from their prong of attack. Our RB tradition was pretty strong before 1999. I'd LOVE to see that return as soon as possible.
- Tom F.
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FWIW, Matthew Berry of ESPN just said that he considers Jamal Lewis a sleeper in fantasy football this year (for where he's getting picked - usually, extremely late.)
His reasons were that Lewis has the 2nd best "stuff" percentage in the NFL (meaning that when he gets a goal line carry he gets the ball in the end zone,) that Mangini coached teams run the ball inside the 10 yard line more often than 26 other teams in the NFL (meaning Jamal will get the red zone touches,) and that Jamal had 1200 total yards last year.
That's just fantasy stuff, and it doesn't really have to do with whether or not Jamal has anything left - but, we know that Lewis despite no flash will be important to this team but from a leadership standpoint, and from a production and red zone stand point.
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