Could Browns Release Lewis Today?
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Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
Sutton went to Carolina, but I'm liking the Peerman pickup a lot.
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Tom I am not debating Lewis and his roster spot. I have been debating anyone saying he might get cut YESTERDAY. Two entirely different topics. I don't have any doubts we needed a new starter coming into the season. Last season even. All I wanted to say was cuttin him yesterday was not going to happen. It didn't and I was correct.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
Fair enough Vegas. You did say he wouldn't get cut and you were right. I'll be honest, I wasn't totally sure either way - which was why I thought posting this would become an interesting discussion piece. I knew I better start the Subject Heading with the word "Could" so that's why I did it as such.
I didn't post it to be a Tom V. type of agitator. I have legit concerns about our RB health and depth with the type of physical division we play in. Nothing more. Baltimore used 3 different RBs in 2008, Pittsburgh wanted to use 3 but Mendehall got hurt so they only used Parker (who was sidelined for part of the season) and Mewelde Moore.
My thinking was if we lose Davis - we lose our only healthy RB at this time.
As you can see, things are constantly changing so now we have an update to discuss. Peerman looks like a nice attempt to problem solve our age, health and depth to the RB position. If he doesn't prove to be right - they may bring in Riff's boy Sutton. - Tom F.
You and I are on the same page in that we need a young starting RB. We needed it last season and we for sure need it this season. We'll see if Davis can make it happen. I am HOPING Mangini is not like RAC and just shuttle in JD for a 2-3 touch game where he tears it up and then sits. Harrison is still Harrison, so I think he can be the Leon W type guy. We'll see.
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Get my point.. Just cuz Jamal's preseason numbers are down..does not mean he cannot play.
LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
This is exactly what happened to James Davis in college that made his draft stock fall from a low 2nd to 3rd round prospect 2 years ago.. To the late draft spot he got picked by us this year..His team collapsed around him... It was not his dropoff.. if your team sucks..it effects you.
As for the surgeries.. I don't know how he feels and neither do you. ... I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense. I still say I will go with Mangini's asessment..because neither you or I have seen enough of him this year to truly evaluate where he is... Mangini sees him daily.
Am I being optomistic.. yes... until I see him play in 2-3 games.. 30-60 carries.. I'm not sure what he has left. Could you be right? ..Yes... but not based upon what you saw in preseason.. i think that's a load.. (per my prior posting above.)
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LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
This is exactly what happened to James Davis in college that made his draft stock fall from a low 2nd to 3rd round prospect 2 years ago.. To the late draft spot he got picked by us this year..His team collapsed around him... It was not his dropoff.. if your team sucks..it effects you.
As for the surgeries.. I don't know how he feels and neither do you. ... I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense. I still say I will go with Mangini's asessment..because neither you or I have seen enough of him this year to truly evaluate where he is... Mangini sees him daily.
Am I being optomistic.. yes... until I see him play in 2-3 games.. 30-60 carries.. I'm not sure what he has left. Could you be right? ..Yes... but not based upon what you saw in preseason.. i think that's a load.. (per my prior posting above.)
I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense.
Speaking of, does anybody know if Venus & Serena will be lining up in the middle against us opening day? I know the judge overturned the suspension, but Goodell has a bit of ego about him, I'm guessing he's seeking an alternative course to proving he's the boss.
(This is just the latest info I have. I was hoping somebody had some better news)
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LOL! Okay, let's just pretend Jamal didn't REALLY have major reconstructive surgeries on his ankles that completely changed the way he runs because you found other RBs that didn't have good preseason numbers. He's running on tippy toes like Tinkerbell but let's change the subject to what other RBs are doing so when I respond - you can watch me get accused of getting offtopic.
Have you even WATCHED Lewis once yet? I'll talk regular season. His average went down from 4.4 yards a carry in 2007 to 3.6 in 2008. Math tells me that's dangerously close to a full yard per carry lost on average. HOMER vrs reality. I'll go with reality and you can go with being the HOMER who believes he's the better fan. Comeon Sez!
If you've read ANYTHING I've written this year - it's been all complimentary toward Mankok. I just think they inherited a nightmare at RB and I think their James Davis solution on draft day was fantastic. I piggybacked my excitement over the pick the very first time Shep posted a nice thread about Davis back in April or May.
There's NOTHING wrong with fans wanting more than 1 healthy RB on our active roster. Is there? If so, then I'm the terrible fan you accuse me of being.
- Tom F.
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
This is exactly what happened to James Davis in college that made his draft stock fall from a low 2nd to 3rd round prospect 2 years ago.. To the late draft spot he got picked by us this year..His team collapsed around him... It was not his dropoff.. if your team sucks..it effects you.
As for the surgeries.. I don't know how he feels and neither do you. ... I do know ..no matter who runs the ball week one we are not getting crap against a good vikings defense. I still say I will go with Mangini's asessment..because neither you or I have seen enough of him this year to truly evaluate where he is... Mangini sees him daily.
Am I being optomistic.. yes... until I see him play in 2-3 games.. 30-60 carries.. I'm not sure what he has left. Could you be right? ..Yes... but not based upon what you saw in preseason.. i think that's a load.. (per my prior posting above.)
Yes I have watched him this year. NO I do not see the tippy toes stuff your talking about. Matter of fact I saw him break a few tackles. I did not see many holes for him to run through... He had nice burst on the screen plays and looked quick to me.. If the tippy toes you may be referring to.. what i saw on a couple plays was a veteran runningback being patient and waiting for a crease or a hole to open.... (that never did).. That is not the same as being hesitant.
The average in 2007 was high because we had a better team (10 wins).. 2008 the entire offensive line collapsed.. the whole team collapsed thus the decrease in production..You cannot blame Jamal for that mess.
I just did but you're too angry to give me anything deeper than the world according to Homer Simpson after someone pissed in his Wheaties.
I mean why should we consider that Jerome Harrison averaged 7.23 yards per carry on the SAME team during the SAME season? You DO realize that doubles Jamal's 3.6 yards per carry right? Anyway, here's what Harrison did on the ground in 2008: 34 carries for 246 yards. Do the math BEFORE you give me the old testament and new testament of excuses for Lewis.
And now THIS year you magically see NO holes for Jamal but there's been plenty of holes for our other backs. Sounds VERY similar to Harrison ONLY getting the good blocking in 08 while ALL Jamal's blockers allegedly sucked. I call this little Harrison and Davis phenomenon HITTING the hole BEFORE it closes. More specifically, no excuses or finger pointing required. That's what you want from your backs, which is why you don't want them running on dead ankles. Jamal ain't being patient - he just can't get there anymore so that's how you're choosing to describe him. I've only seen him looking okay on screens.
And by the way, don't go insulting people about their football backgrounds you literally have ZERO knowledge about. I'd like to think we can be 2 fans just shooting the breeze about our favorite team without you flying off the handle and accusing people of not trusting Mangini. Come on. I'm merely pointing out Jamal's wheels look dead since 2007 and I've got the reconstructive surgery facts supporting it as well as the decrease in yards per carry by almost a full yard since 07. And we're also discussing why there's holes for all the backs except for Jamal. Seeing how Baltimore got impatient with waiting for him to return to form - doesn't that make 2007 more of an exception to the rule over the last 4 seasons? I don't think Ozzie Newsome is stupid.
- Tom F.
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So I guess Harrisons 1.3 yard per carry average this preseason is valid too then?
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Im with SEZ and on the side of wait and see on JLew- but not as a feature back. Daboll will have to use him on third down [opposite of Harrison] to open up the screen option, tough yards in the middle or pass protection. Now I dont know of the complaining /whining at the sidelines he is accused of doing - I am believing that Mangini is the coach RAC wasnt...
and can contain the negative and let his passion become a plus for the Browns. but like you Im a fan and a dreamer. The season still hasnt started yet DAMMIT and I cant wait.
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Lewis is done. Been saying that since 2 years ago.
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So I guess Harrisons 1.3 yard per carry average this preseason is valid too then?
So you're leaving out what James Davis averaged? Thatta boy! I figured you'd refuse the facts I just gave you when I compared Lewis' 3.6 yards per carry in 08 to Harrison's 7.23 yards per carry. Like I said, Harrison had 34 carries for 246 yards. Jamal put us to sleep.
Here's what the well-respected and highly paid professional (ESPN's Adam Schefter) had to say:
"It'll be a very long year in Cleveland if Lewis is the lead back, and he definitely didn't earn a roster spot with dreadful preseason play. We still wouldn't rule out the Browns cutting Lewis before the season. His $2.4M salary will be guaranteed if he's on the Week 1 roster, and clearly he isn't worth it. Look for James Davis to end up leading Browns backs in touches in 2009."
Here's something else worthy of note because it marks the FIRST time Ozzie Newsome started to weigh the pros and cons of Jamal's wear and tear vrs upside for his franchise. Pay attention to the date and look where the problem was:
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: November 25, 2004
"Baltimore Ravens running back Jamal Lewis, the National Football League's leading rusher last season, will miss Sunday's game against the New England Patriots because of a sprained right ankle." Since this is near the end of 04 let's take a peak at 05-08 BEFORE another ankle reconstruction this offseason:
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS Att Yds TD Lng ypc
2005 26 BAL RB 31 15 15 269 906 3 25 3.4
2006 27 BAL RB 31 16 16 314 1132 9 52 3.6
2007 28 CLE RB 31 15 15 298 1304 9 66 4.4
2008 29 CLE RB 31 16 16 279 1002 4 29 3.6
And then came this:
"Read the latest fantasy news about Jamal Lewis at Rotoworld.com. ... More ankle surgery didn't do the trick this time. Don't be surprised if James Davis..."
If we finished the last sentence above it would read "Don't be surprised if James Davis looks like he's the ONLY RB that receives GOOD blocking." If Harrison can double Jamal's avg per carry - my guess is Davis might be able to triple it as he gets some experience ahead. I call this little phenomenon hitting the hole BEFORE it closes.
Sez, the REASON I want a different RB starting for us is because then I can feel like we're better than a team willing to settle for less. We haven't exactly been SPOILED with winning records or great RBs since 1999. Wasn't it nice back in the day when Greg Pruitt could score from anywhere on the field? WPBDawg showed us in this thread Jamal even had trouble scoring from inside the 5. The stat above also shows us Lewis' longest run in 08 was 29 yards inspite of 16 weeks of opportunity. Wanna bet at least 30 starting RBs bettered that longest run? Let's stop blaming everyone BUT Jamal and understand what excited us fans about the night Harrison broke an 85 yard TD run at Buffalo in a close game we would WIN because of that run. You can pretend it's always bad blocking for Jamal all you want but Davis and Harrison are hitting the holes before they close while you're explaining Jamal's patience and pointing fingers.
In conclusion: EVERY time this franchise has been good we've had the following RBs giving us fond memories: Marion Motley, Jim Brown, Leroy Kelly, Greg Pruitt, Mike Pruitt, Ernest Byner, Kevin Mack, and even Leroys Hoards. The warm fuzzies got reinforced everytime these guys scored or setup scores from their prong of attack. Our RB tradition was pretty strong before 1999. I'd LOVE to see that return as soon as possible.
- Tom F.
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FWIW, Matthew Berry of ESPN just said that he considers Jamal Lewis a sleeper in fantasy football this year (for where he's getting picked - usually, extremely late.)
His reasons were that Lewis has the 2nd best "stuff" percentage in the NFL (meaning that when he gets a goal line carry he gets the ball in the end zone,) that Mangini coached teams run the ball inside the 10 yard line more often than 26 other teams in the NFL (meaning Jamal will get the red zone touches,) and that Jamal had 1200 total yards last year.
That's just fantasy stuff, and it doesn't really have to do with whether or not Jamal has anything left - but, we know that Lewis despite no flash will be important to this team but from a leadership standpoint, and from a production and red zone stand point.
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Lewis is done. Been saying that since 2 years ago.
Chickenwang said:
Lewis is done. Been saying that since 2 years ago.i didn't realize back-to-back 1,000+ yard seasons constituted done these days.
two years ago when you claim you were saying he was done he had the most yards by anyone in a Browns uni not named James Brown.
yeah, the AFCN is just a breeze to run in, huh Bub? some people are never happy i guess.
IMO Lewis still has life, even if he's no longer considered sexy. I still think he'll break 1k this year if he stays healthy. he's been sandbaggin' this summer--they know who he is, he's one of the few that didn't need to audition for the new regime.
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as long as he's durable and it keeps the defense honest who cares? pick someone else for your fantasy team solon.
the team has holes, no doubt, but they could be a HELL of a lot bigger. what do you want? 80 yards a game X 16 = 1280? in the AFCN? good luck.
games can be consistently won with superior play-calling and execution>>>it doesn't require 150-175 yards on the ground. like i said, some people are never happy i guess.
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as long as he's durable and it keeps the defense honest who cares? pick someone else for your fantasy team solon.
the team has holes, no doubt, but they could be a HELL of a lot bigger. what do you want? 80 yards a game X 16 = 1280? in the AFCN? good luck.
games can be consistently won with superior play-calling and execution>>>it doesn't require 150-175 yards on the ground. like i said, some people are never happy i guess.
as long as he's durable and it keeps the defense honest who cares? pick someone else for your fantasy team solon.
the team has holes, no doubt, but they could be a HELL of a lot bigger. what do you want? 80 yards a game X 16 = 1280? in the AFCN? good luck.
games can be consistently won with superior play-calling and execution>>>it doesn't require 150-175 yards on the ground. like i said, some people are never happy i guess.
I agree - and if at the very least they use Harrison / Davis by comittee, and plug in Lewis in situations when defenses arent stacked 8 in the box, with a QB who can throw a screen pass ... Seems to me, the offensive game plan opens up more than what they got last year. BY far the running game is very important and we need an experienced back, especially late in the season, if we find ourselves in a meaningful push against Balt / Pitt.
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i'm pretty well convinced this is Jamal's last year with us but in the meantime he's easily serviceable IMO and if Jamal doesn't have a productive year i'll be shocked.
let's hope his replacement is already on the team roster>>not just to be ahead of the curve but also to take advantage of his veteran leadership and wisdom while he's still around.
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Is Jerome Harrison still injured ?
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