Skip to content
The Browns Board
Theme
  • System
  • Light
  • Dark
  • Login
  • Register
  • Forums
  • Recent
  • Popular
  • Users
  • Donate
  1. Home
  2. The Browns Board
  3. In Defense of Deshaun

In Defense of Deshaun

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Browns Board
33 Posts 14 Posters 1.6k Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • hish747 hish747H Dedicated Reacting Well Conversation Starter Very Popular Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
    • 269 Posts
    • 110 Reputation
    hish747H hish747 wrote on last edited by
    #1

    First, let me start by saying that I was initially relieved when Watson said no to the Browns. I should also say that I'm an attorney whose main focus has been working with victims of domestic and sexual violence. Predominantly, but not exclusively, women. My gut reaction was to side with the accusers and I certainly didn't want to have anything to do with someone who, based on what I've heard, appeared to be some kind of a sexual predator. I was very disappointed when the Browns subsequently dealt for Watson. How can I hold my head up as a Browns fan after this? More importantly, I have two teenage boys and a daughter to think of. I was really upset about the signing.

    Then I dug deeper into the Watson allegations. I researched the Texas grand jury proceedings and actually read the civil filings. 

    Let's start with the criminal matters. It turns out that there were potentially 12 criminal cases against Deshaun. The prosecutor decided that 2 of the cases were nonsense and then decided against pursuing a 3rd, presumably because it either had no merit or weakened the other 9 cases. So the prosecutor therefore presented 9 cases to the grand jury. The jury decided that none of the 9 cases showed PROBABLE CAUSE that Watson committed any crime. NONE of them. The standard here is probable cause. Not beyond a reasonable doubt. In other words, it's the same standard used in the civil cases against Watson. Not a high standard. The prosecution,  who under tremendous public pressure to bring this case, could not show that Watson more likely than not engaged in the activity charged in ANY of 9 cases. Then I started wondering why Watson wasn’t also charged for soliciting prostitution? If this was really about Watson wanting to engage in sexual acts for money, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would have charged for solicitation?  In Texas, you don't even need to be soliciting a "prostitute." Just the act of requesting sexual acts for money is enough. Kraft was. Why not Deshaun? Is it that such charges might raise the faintest hint that the victims may have been somehow complicit. This would be inconsistent with both the criminal and civil matters and not would reflect well on the plaintiffs . But surely, it would have been easy enough to prove. Unless of course the prosecution did not feel comfortable that they should or could prove it.

    On top of the Texas prosecution, Watson also agreed to be interviewed by the FBI. Nothing came of that either. Would you agree to be questioned by the FBI if you thought you did anything wrong?

    The conclusion is that Watson committed no crime.

    Let's consider the civil lawsuits. If the FBI and grand jury couldn't find that Watson, did anything wrong, there is probably no compelling reason to think that a civil jury, using the same standard, will find any different. I read the civil filings and my takeaway was very different from what is portrayed in the media. I didn't see a sexual predator who forced anyone to do anything. What I read about was a young man, who was kind of polite but also naive and stupid in his interactions with the massage therapists. The stories told by the therapists by and large don't mention him overcoming any of the plaintiffs by force. They say he asked them if they would do certain things. Maybe he wanted a massage with a 'happy ending'; or maybe not. Many 25 year old men would probably enjoy that. I don't think it would have come as a shock to these massage therapists that such a thing exists. But some say they were shocked. Yet, these plaintiffs had repeat appointments with Deshaun, after initially "shocking" and "inappropriate" encounters. Why go back for seconds if you really are shocked by a client's behavior? Maybe the money was too good? Maybe they saw a huge payday. In any event, these cases will never go to a jury; they will be settled out of court, but not for anywhere near what the plaintiffs expect. The bulk of the settlement will go to the plaintiff's attorney. By the way, Watson made a very interesting condition of the settlement; no confidentiality clause. Because he doesn’t want anyone to say that he is paying for anyone’s silence…and possibly because he wants to be able to tell what happened from his point of view.

    If Watson isn’t found criminally or civilly liable, and I think he will not, will we say well, he’s probably guilty anyway? Is that how we would want to be treated? It’s unfortunate that in the current media climate, allegations seems to be as good as a convictions. Everyone deserves fairness. If he isn't found guilty, then he is innocent. If he is innocent, then he already gave up a year practicing his profession because of charges that could not hold up in court. It would be a shame for him to endure more suspension. In any event, I know how to talk to my kids, I’m over the drama, and I will support the Browns in what promises to be a very exciting season.

    mjp28M 1 Reply Last reply
    👍 ❤
    Quote Reply
    • Pat Mahomo Pat MahomoP Reacting Well Conversation Starter Dedicated Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
      • 131 Posts
      • 43 Reputation
      Pat MahomoP Pat Mahomo wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

      OsirisO S hoortaH 3 Replies Last reply
      👍
      Quote Reply
      • hish747H hish747

        First, let me start by saying that I was initially relieved when Watson said no to the Browns. I should also say that I'm an attorney whose main focus has been working with victims of domestic and sexual violence. Predominantly, but not exclusively, women. My gut reaction was to side with the accusers and I certainly didn't want to have anything to do with someone who, based on what I've heard, appeared to be some kind of a sexual predator. I was very disappointed when the Browns subsequently dealt for Watson. How can I hold my head up as a Browns fan after this? More importantly, I have two teenage boys and a daughter to think of. I was really upset about the signing.

        Then I dug deeper into the Watson allegations. I researched the Texas grand jury proceedings and actually read the civil filings. 

        Let's start with the criminal matters. It turns out that there were potentially 12 criminal cases against Deshaun. The prosecutor decided that 2 of the cases were nonsense and then decided against pursuing a 3rd, presumably because it either had no merit or weakened the other 9 cases. So the prosecutor therefore presented 9 cases to the grand jury. The jury decided that none of the 9 cases showed PROBABLE CAUSE that Watson committed any crime. NONE of them. The standard here is probable cause. Not beyond a reasonable doubt. In other words, it's the same standard used in the civil cases against Watson. Not a high standard. The prosecution,  who under tremendous public pressure to bring this case, could not show that Watson more likely than not engaged in the activity charged in ANY of 9 cases. Then I started wondering why Watson wasn’t also charged for soliciting prostitution? If this was really about Watson wanting to engage in sexual acts for money, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would have charged for solicitation?  In Texas, you don't even need to be soliciting a "prostitute." Just the act of requesting sexual acts for money is enough. Kraft was. Why not Deshaun? Is it that such charges might raise the faintest hint that the victims may have been somehow complicit. This would be inconsistent with both the criminal and civil matters and not would reflect well on the plaintiffs . But surely, it would have been easy enough to prove. Unless of course the prosecution did not feel comfortable that they should or could prove it.

        On top of the Texas prosecution, Watson also agreed to be interviewed by the FBI. Nothing came of that either. Would you agree to be questioned by the FBI if you thought you did anything wrong?

        The conclusion is that Watson committed no crime.

        Let's consider the civil lawsuits. If the FBI and grand jury couldn't find that Watson, did anything wrong, there is probably no compelling reason to think that a civil jury, using the same standard, will find any different. I read the civil filings and my takeaway was very different from what is portrayed in the media. I didn't see a sexual predator who forced anyone to do anything. What I read about was a young man, who was kind of polite but also naive and stupid in his interactions with the massage therapists. The stories told by the therapists by and large don't mention him overcoming any of the plaintiffs by force. They say he asked them if they would do certain things. Maybe he wanted a massage with a 'happy ending'; or maybe not. Many 25 year old men would probably enjoy that. I don't think it would have come as a shock to these massage therapists that such a thing exists. But some say they were shocked. Yet, these plaintiffs had repeat appointments with Deshaun, after initially "shocking" and "inappropriate" encounters. Why go back for seconds if you really are shocked by a client's behavior? Maybe the money was too good? Maybe they saw a huge payday. In any event, these cases will never go to a jury; they will be settled out of court, but not for anywhere near what the plaintiffs expect. The bulk of the settlement will go to the plaintiff's attorney. By the way, Watson made a very interesting condition of the settlement; no confidentiality clause. Because he doesn’t want anyone to say that he is paying for anyone’s silence…and possibly because he wants to be able to tell what happened from his point of view.

        If Watson isn’t found criminally or civilly liable, and I think he will not, will we say well, he’s probably guilty anyway? Is that how we would want to be treated? It’s unfortunate that in the current media climate, allegations seems to be as good as a convictions. Everyone deserves fairness. If he isn't found guilty, then he is innocent. If he is innocent, then he already gave up a year practicing his profession because of charges that could not hold up in court. It would be a shame for him to endure more suspension. In any event, I know how to talk to my kids, I’m over the drama, and I will support the Browns in what promises to be a very exciting season.

        mjp28 mjp28M In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
        • 18k Posts
        • 4k Reputation
        mjp28M mjp28 wrote on last edited by mjp28
        #3

        @hish747 said:

        . But surely, it would have been easy enough to prove. Unless of course the prosecution did not feel comfortable that they should or could prove it.

        On top of the Texas prosecution, Watson also agreed to be interviewed by the FBI. Nothing came of that either. Would you agree to be questioned by the FBI if you thought you did anything wrong?.......

        ........The conclusion is that Watson committed no crime.

        Being that the quarterback is the leader of team compared to let's say a defensive player or staff where does character or judgment or maybe reputation  come in  play here for a guy who was just handed a HUGE 5 year guaranteed contract a will be wearing a BROWNS uniform  ?  Or doesn't that matter at all just win baby and we'll just pretend that none of this matters at all ?

        Have we and the NFL shield just overlook all of this ?  Will a 12-4 season and a deep playoff run make everyone forget about this whole salacious stuff.....and for 5 years  ?

        I guess we'll all find out soon enough. 

        GO BROWNS,  just win......baby !

        GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
        OsirisO 1 Reply Last reply
        Quote Reply
        • 7moses7 7 Reacting Well Conversation Starter Very Popular Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
          • 1k Posts
          • 248 Reputation
          7 7moses7 wrote on last edited by
          #4

          I’m no attorney but I’d speculate if he has to settle any civil suits he would only pay a percentage of what his current salary is. The less you make the less they can take 

          mjp28M hish747H 2 Replies Last reply
          Quote Reply
          • 7 7moses7

            I’m no attorney but I’d speculate if he has to settle any civil suits he would only pay a percentage of what his current salary is. The less you make the less they can take 

            mjp28 mjp28M In Memoriam Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well Week One Done One Month Later One Year In
            • 18k Posts
            • 4k Reputation
            mjp28M mjp28 wrote on last edited by
            #5

            @7moses7 said:

            I’m no attorney but I’d speculate if he has to settle any civil suits he would only pay a percentage of what his current salary is. The less you make the less they can take 

            Don't some judgements go way beyond current salaries and just tag you for a percentage of future earnings until paid off, even for life ?

            Child support can run like that, and isn't it up to existing guidelines or a judge's discretion even if it overrides a jury award.

            Hey we're just like people's court here !  Inquiring minds want to know  !    😆

            GO BUCKEYES, BROWNS, INDIANS, CAVS, YSU, NAVY and yes I like ND!
            1 Reply Last reply
            Quote Reply
            • Pat MahomoP Pat Mahomo

              Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

              Osiris OsirisO Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
              • 2k Posts
              • 125 Reputation
              OsirisO Osiris wrote on last edited by
              #6

              @pat-mahomo said:

              Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

              An NFL suspension doesn't equate to a legal verdict. The NFL has concerns about its bottom line, and if the NFL thinks the bottom line will be impacted negatively by declining to suspend Watson, they may suspend him to appease the court of public opinion. 

              If the Browns are convinced of his innocence, but consider what I just mentioned, maybe they are protecting him from further unjustness by losing money for something he didn't do. 

              "I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta
              1 Reply Last reply
              👍
              Quote Reply
              • mjp28M mjp28

                @hish747 said:

                . But surely, it would have been easy enough to prove. Unless of course the prosecution did not feel comfortable that they should or could prove it.

                On top of the Texas prosecution, Watson also agreed to be interviewed by the FBI. Nothing came of that either. Would you agree to be questioned by the FBI if you thought you did anything wrong?.......

                ........The conclusion is that Watson committed no crime.

                Being that the quarterback is the leader of team compared to let's say a defensive player or staff where does character or judgment or maybe reputation  come in  play here for a guy who was just handed a HUGE 5 year guaranteed contract a will be wearing a BROWNS uniform  ?  Or doesn't that matter at all just win baby and we'll just pretend that none of this matters at all ?

                Have we and the NFL shield just overlook all of this ?  Will a 12-4 season and a deep playoff run make everyone forget about this whole salacious stuff.....and for 5 years  ?

                I guess we'll all find out soon enough. 

                GO BROWNS,  just win......baby !

                Osiris OsirisO Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                • 2k Posts
                • 125 Reputation
                OsirisO Osiris wrote on last edited by
                #7

                @mjp28 said:

                Being that the quarterback is the leader of team compared to let's say a defensive player or staff where does character or judgment or maybe reputation  come in  play here for a guy who was just handed a HUGE 5 year guaranteed contract a will be wearing a BROWNS uniform  ?  Or doesn't that matter at all just win baby and we'll just pretend that none of this matters at all ?

                Have we and the NFL shield just overlook all of this ?  Will a 12-4 season and a deep playoff run make everyone forget about this whole salacious stuff.....and for 5 years  ?

                I guess we'll all find out soon enough. 

                GO BROWNS,  just win......baby !

                We already know, the evidence is Ben Roethlesburger, Kareem Hunt, Ray Rice, Ray Lewis, etc etc etc

                What Watson actually did may not even rise to the level of what these guys did, given that the only thing he has admitted to is consensual sexual activity with one or two of these women.

                "I said, 'I need someone who's going to want to get on the roller coaster with me knowing that it's not always going to be fun,'" -Paul DePodesta
                1 Reply Last reply
                Quote Reply
                • Pat MahomoP Pat Mahomo

                  Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

                  SdBacker80 S Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                  • 5k Posts
                  • 2k Reputation
                  S SdBacker80 wrote on last edited by SdBacker80
                  #8

                  @pat-mahomo said:

                  Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

                  I think you are overlooking the leverage one party has over the other.  Deshaun and his team could call the shots.  
                   

                  I see questionable bargains all the time in life, sports and work.  If one party is desperate stuff like this happens 

                  edit: just listened to Papa and Charlie Weiss on XM NFL radio- they asked this same question.   And said how do Browns feel that he didn’t want to go to Cleveland until all the money was guaranteed?  We basically did Baker wrong in their eyes and we will regret the deal and look what we did to contracts moving forward when guys want all guaranteed dollars

                  Bob806B 1 Reply Last reply
                  Quote Reply
                  • 7 7moses7

                    I’m no attorney but I’d speculate if he has to settle any civil suits he would only pay a percentage of what his current salary is. The less you make the less they can take 

                    hish747 hish747H Dedicated Reacting Well Conversation Starter Very Popular Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                    • 269 Posts
                    • 110 Reputation
                    hish747H hish747 wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    @7moses7 said:

                    I’m no attorney but I’d speculate if he has to settle any civil suits he would only pay a percentage of what his current salary is. The less you make the less they can take 

                    No one would draft a settlement agreement based on percentage of earnings. It's almost always just a lump sum. Even a judgement would likely be a lump sum if it went to trial, which it won't.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    Quote Reply
                    • S SdBacker80

                      @pat-mahomo said:

                      Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

                      I think you are overlooking the leverage one party has over the other.  Deshaun and his team could call the shots.  
                       

                      I see questionable bargains all the time in life, sports and work.  If one party is desperate stuff like this happens 

                      edit: just listened to Papa and Charlie Weiss on XM NFL radio- they asked this same question.   And said how do Browns feel that he didn’t want to go to Cleveland until all the money was guaranteed?  We basically did Baker wrong in their eyes and we will regret the deal and look what we did to contracts moving forward when guys want all guaranteed dollars

                      Bob806 Bob806B Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                      • 5k Posts
                      • 2k Reputation
                      Bob806B Bob806 wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      @sdbacker80 said:

                      I think you are overlooking the leverage one party has over the other.  Deshaun and his team could call the shots.  
                       

                      I see questionable bargains all the time in life, sports and work.  If one party is desperate stuff like this happens 

                      edit: just listened to Papa and Charlie Weiss on XM NFL radio- they asked this same question.   And said how do Browns feel that he didn’t want to go to Cleveland until all the money was guaranteed?  We basically did Baker wrong in their eyes and we will regret the deal and look what we did to contracts moving forward when guys want all guaranteed dollars

                      Yeah this is what has me miffed on the Browns end....business is business, but cutting guys to clear cap space, and devote roughly 25% of the cap to ONE guy is crazy (in my eyes), and to GUARANTEE it? Yikes, Haslam set a precedent that's going to irk other owners I bet.

                      Karlis Missed
                      S 1 Reply Last reply
                      ❤
                      Quote Reply
                      • Bob806B Bob806

                        @sdbacker80 said:

                        I think you are overlooking the leverage one party has over the other.  Deshaun and his team could call the shots.  
                         

                        I see questionable bargains all the time in life, sports and work.  If one party is desperate stuff like this happens 

                        edit: just listened to Papa and Charlie Weiss on XM NFL radio- they asked this same question.   And said how do Browns feel that he didn’t want to go to Cleveland until all the money was guaranteed?  We basically did Baker wrong in their eyes and we will regret the deal and look what we did to contracts moving forward when guys want all guaranteed dollars

                        Yeah this is what has me miffed on the Browns end....business is business, but cutting guys to clear cap space, and devote roughly 25% of the cap to ONE guy is crazy (in my eyes), and to GUARANTEE it? Yikes, Haslam set a precedent that's going to irk other owners I bet.

                        SdBacker80 S Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                        • 5k Posts
                        • 2k Reputation
                        S SdBacker80 wrote on last edited by SdBacker80
                        #11

                        @bob806 said:

                        Yeah this is what has me miffed on the Browns end....business is business, but cutting guys to clear cap space, and devote roughly 25% of the cap to ONE guy is crazy (in my eyes), and to GUARANTEE it? Yikes, Haslam set a precedent that's going to irk other owners I bet.

                        Have we ever had a “franchise” QB?   I know this is New territory for us.


                         When Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Wilson and generally the upper echelon get paid their contract takes up a lot of the teams cap space. 
                         

                        Packers lost Adams, Chiefs are losing guys and will continue to have good talent cut, the Seahawks could never pay for Oline talent (they had tackle hold out and a bunch of stop gaps).  The Browns will lose Ward next year.  Baker hurt this team last year and this coming year by not playing like the #1 overall pick that he was…instead Joe Burrow played like it and the Bengals went to the SB. 
                         

                        so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss can kiss my @$$ 

                        nickersN Bob806B W 3 Replies Last reply
                        👍
                        Quote Reply
                        • S SdBacker80

                          @bob806 said:

                          Yeah this is what has me miffed on the Browns end....business is business, but cutting guys to clear cap space, and devote roughly 25% of the cap to ONE guy is crazy (in my eyes), and to GUARANTEE it? Yikes, Haslam set a precedent that's going to irk other owners I bet.

                          Have we ever had a “franchise” QB?   I know this is New territory for us.


                           When Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Wilson and generally the upper echelon get paid their contract takes up a lot of the teams cap space. 
                           

                          Packers lost Adams, Chiefs are losing guys and will continue to have good talent cut, the Seahawks could never pay for Oline talent (they had tackle hold out and a bunch of stop gaps).  The Browns will lose Ward next year.  Baker hurt this team last year and this coming year by not playing like the #1 overall pick that he was…instead Joe Burrow played like it and the Bengals went to the SB. 
                           

                          so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss can kiss my @$$ 

                          nickers nickersN Conversation Starter Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
                          • 14k Posts
                          • 5k Reputation
                          nickersN nickers wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          @sdbacker80 said:

                          Have we ever had a “franchise” QB?   I know this is New territory for us.


                           When Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Wilson and generally the upper echelon get paid their contract takes up a lot of the teams cap space. 
                           

                          Packers lost Adams, Chiefs are losing guys and will continue to have good talent cut, the Seahawks could never pay for Oline talent (they had tackle hold out and a bunch of stop gaps).  The Browns will lose Ward next year.  Baker hurt this team last year and this coming year by not playing like the #1 overall pick that he was…instead Joe Burrow played like it and the Bengals went to the SB. 
                           

                          so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss and kiss my @$$ 

                          yes Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar..

                          Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
                          S 1 Reply Last reply
                          Quote Reply
                          • nickersN nickers

                            @sdbacker80 said:

                            Have we ever had a “franchise” QB?   I know this is New territory for us.


                             When Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Wilson and generally the upper echelon get paid their contract takes up a lot of the teams cap space. 
                             

                            Packers lost Adams, Chiefs are losing guys and will continue to have good talent cut, the Seahawks could never pay for Oline talent (they had tackle hold out and a bunch of stop gaps).  The Browns will lose Ward next year.  Baker hurt this team last year and this coming year by not playing like the #1 overall pick that he was…instead Joe Burrow played like it and the Bengals went to the SB. 
                             

                            so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss and kiss my @$$ 

                            yes Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar..

                            SdBacker80 S Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                            • 5k Posts
                            • 2k Reputation
                            S SdBacker80 wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            @nickers said:

                            yes Otto Graham and Bernie Kosar..

                            Sorry let me clarify in the Salary Cap era

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            Quote Reply
                            • S SdBacker80

                              @bob806 said:

                              Yeah this is what has me miffed on the Browns end....business is business, but cutting guys to clear cap space, and devote roughly 25% of the cap to ONE guy is crazy (in my eyes), and to GUARANTEE it? Yikes, Haslam set a precedent that's going to irk other owners I bet.

                              Have we ever had a “franchise” QB?   I know this is New territory for us.


                               When Mahomes, Allen, Rodgers, Wilson and generally the upper echelon get paid their contract takes up a lot of the teams cap space. 
                               

                              Packers lost Adams, Chiefs are losing guys and will continue to have good talent cut, the Seahawks could never pay for Oline talent (they had tackle hold out and a bunch of stop gaps).  The Browns will lose Ward next year.  Baker hurt this team last year and this coming year by not playing like the #1 overall pick that he was…instead Joe Burrow played like it and the Bengals went to the SB. 
                               

                              so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss can kiss my @$$ 

                              Bob806 Bob806B Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                              • 5k Posts
                              • 2k Reputation
                              Bob806B Bob806 wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              @sdbacker80 said:

                              so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss and kiss my @$$ 

                              There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                              I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                              Karlis Missed
                              nickersN IbleedbrownI S hoortaH 4 Replies Last reply
                              Quote Reply
                              • Bob806B Bob806

                                @sdbacker80 said:

                                so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss and kiss my @$$ 

                                There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                nickers nickersN Conversation Starter Dedicated Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done Very Popular
                                • 14k Posts
                                • 5k Reputation
                                nickersN nickers wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                @bob806 said:

                                There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                Thats Haslam and Berry being desperate in my view...

                                Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~
                                hish747H 1 Reply Last reply
                                👍
                                Quote Reply
                                • Bob806B Bob806

                                  @sdbacker80 said:

                                  so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss and kiss my @$$ 

                                  There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                  I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                  Ibleedbrown IbleedbrownI Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                  • 5k Posts
                                  • 2k Reputation
                                  IbleedbrownI Ibleedbrown wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  @bob806 said:

                                  There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                  I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                  The Vikings set that precedent when they signed Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed contract. The Browns may have expanded the horizons of that precedent. 

                                  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/31527/why-final-five-games-may-help-determine-kirk-cousins-future-in-minnesota%3fplatform=amp

                                  Bob806B 1 Reply Last reply
                                  👍
                                  Quote Reply
                                  • IbleedbrownI Ibleedbrown

                                    @bob806 said:

                                    There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                    I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                    The Vikings set that precedent when they signed Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed contract. The Browns may have expanded the horizons of that precedent. 

                                    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/31527/why-final-five-games-may-help-determine-kirk-cousins-future-in-minnesota%3fplatform=amp

                                    Bob806 Bob806B Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                    • 5k Posts
                                    • 2k Reputation
                                    Bob806B Bob806 wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    @ibleedbrown said:

                                    The Vikings set that precedent when they signed Kirk Cousins to a fully guaranteed contract. The Browns may have expanded the horizons of that precedent. 

                                    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/31527/why-final-five-games-may-help-determine-kirk-cousins-future-in-minnesota%3fplatform=amp

                                    Ok...I wasn't 100% certain on whether Watson set a precedent on guaranteed $$. Thanks.

                                    Karlis Missed
                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    👍
                                    Quote Reply
                                    • Bob806B Bob806

                                      @sdbacker80 said:

                                      so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss and kiss my @$$ 

                                      There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                      I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                      SdBacker80 S Conversation Starter Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                      • 5k Posts
                                      • 2k Reputation
                                      S SdBacker80 wrote on last edited by SdBacker80
                                      #18

                                      @bob806 said:

                                      There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                      I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                      Papa and Weiss kind of pissed me off this morning and generally this is where my comments were coming from.   And their slight on the Browns like how does it feel browns fans that you had to go down this unchartered road to bring in a franchise QB after our current QB declined to play for us.  

                                      In Papa’s case as a Giants guy I guess it is better than having Danny Dimes and Tyrod Taylor 

                                      Bob806B 1 Reply Last reply
                                      Quote Reply
                                      • Pat MahomoP Pat Mahomo

                                        Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in bas salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfiet only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

                                        hoorta hoortaH Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                        • 20k Posts
                                        • 5k Reputation
                                        hoortaH hoorta wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        @pat-mahomo said:

                                        Why did the Browns draw up a contract that only pays a very low number in base salary this year so as to avoid Watson having to pay or forfeit only tiny amounts in the event of a suspension?  That doesn't happen when you think the NFL is going to come to the conclusion that Watson is not culpable in some way.

                                        As they say Pat... "Image is everything".   If this all turn out to be this was just consensual sex in a massage parlor, we gotta show the NFL audience this doesn't look good.  Should Watson get suspended for a significant number of games, (Goodell can do whatever he feels like) the hypocrisy from my POV is stunning...  He didn't do diddly-do to one of the guys who pays his salary (Robert Kraft) who got charged with soliciting prostitution- and it was even on camera.  

                                        T 1 Reply Last reply
                                        Quote Reply
                                        • Bob806B Bob806

                                          @sdbacker80 said:

                                          so the league is pissed off- so what.  The Browns were and are pissed when the league issues apologies on missed calls or when Josh Gordon is suspended for a year and goes to NE and on his next suspension gets docked one game…or how about getting effed with the Raiders game and COVID nonsense…but the league fixes things after they screw us.  I got a tissue for Baltimore when they owe Lamar more guaranteed money.   Not trying to play victim but Papa and Weiss and kiss my @$$ 

                                          There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                          I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                          hoorta hoortaH Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
                                          • 20k Posts
                                          • 5k Reputation
                                          hoortaH hoorta wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          @bob806 said:

                                          There's a ton of " screwing the Browns" tales for sure & I could name a half dozen or more easily.

                                          I'm talking the "guaranteed money" they gave Watson. That's unheard of in the NFL, I'm fairly certain.

                                          I'll comment on this in more detail in another thread Bob, but yeah- 'twas 2018 four (short) years ago the Vikings gave Cousins that unheard of at the time $80 million guaranteed.  But if you break that down on a per year basis, Watson's $230 million is less than Rodgers $150 million. Watson is 26, Rodgers is 38. I don't have a crystal ball to predict what NFL salaries are going to look like in 2026, but I can safely predict when Directv loses Sunday Ticket after this year, there's bidders already out there (Disney) willing to double, and possibly triple (Amazon) the $$$billion a year the NFL is currently getting for the service. Do the math what that alone will do to the salary cap.  🙂  

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          Quote Reply

                                          Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.

                                          Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.

                                          With your input, this post could be even better 💗

                                          Register Login
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          Theme
                                          • System
                                          • Light
                                          • Dark
                                          The Browns Board Terms Privacy

                                          The Browns Board is an independent fan community. It is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or sponsored by the Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Cavaliers, Cleveland Guardians, the NFL, NBA, MLB, or any of their affiliates. Team names, logos, and other marks are the property of their respective owners.

                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Forums
                                          • Recent
                                          • Popular
                                          • Users
                                          • Donate